: Wait4me and sct, quality folks!



lemaman
07-29-09, 03:31 AM
Ok, I have seen all the abuse some have given W4M and the whiners out there. My personal experience has been wonderful. Yes, the tuner I got didn't work initially. Upload error code 1017. Wash told to pull BCM fuses, but no go. Yes, I was disappointed, but then I thought, "wow, I still have a 556 bhp car that runs fine, and it is a complex unit to be sure. To come up with programming that tweaks the gears and hp was a daunting task, I'm sure. So I gave it the weekend, emailed SCT and Rudy was on the phone with me first thing Monday am. He remote accessed my computer, fixed the bugs in seconds flat, and stayed on the line the whole time. I had to pull the fuses, ultimately, but they are working to correct that. It's worth the wait. I'm driving a NASCAR sprint series car now! Hannah at Wait4Me has been very good as well, but she is not the technical one to deal with. She will ship it overnight if you like, though, and they have been nothing be professional from the outset. Don't knock a product because it's got a few issues, these flash tuners do work, trust me. I wouldl like to publicly thank Rudy at SCT and Heather at W4M at this time and encourage any of you who want relatively cheap performance upgrades to consider this route first. I have no regrets and will continue to let you now how it goes. Too wet here to really run it, but i will let you know...
email me with any questions, I'm happy to talk.
James Nichols
lemaman@aol.com

CIWS
07-29-09, 07:29 AM
Ok, I have seen all the abuse some have given W4M and the whiners out there.

Why the Frack do you call people who have paid good money and are not satisfied with the product or service whiners. They should have just as much right to post of their experiences as those like yourself who are satisfied with a service or product. All experience should be allowed to be posted good and bad so that a potential customer has more information.

It's great you have a positive experience to pass on, but you fail when you resort to name calling in the process. Just because a Mod in this forum does it does not mean that their actions were correct or that you should feel that's a green light to do the same.

Fubar75207
07-29-09, 08:21 AM
I agree with the sentiment that CIWS is trying to make but I think he is being to harsh. I think the best advice anyone can or should give on these forums is BE NICE.

I am going to make a post in a minute that I hope will be a reflection of the moderators and members... bear with me.

CIWS
07-29-09, 08:24 AM
I agree with the sentiment that CIWS is trying to make but I think he is being to harsh.

No doubt, man. But my patience with how this whole thing has been handled is wearing thin and anyone resorting to name calling, Mods or members needs to stop.

musclesbmf
07-29-09, 09:53 AM
I agree peeps... Can't we all be professional and courteous? We all have our views and opinions. I do believe a vendor should be given a chance to rectify any situation before it being brought to the community in public. That is just my opinion once again.

Mark

Florian
07-29-09, 09:55 AM
This whole frakas should have been handled off-line between the unsatisfied customers and the vendor. As soon as it goes public, the dog-pile began. It seemed to be just a handful of people that shelled out a couple hundred bux for a box tune/programmer, didn't get the part about 'stealth' and what it actually means and got bent. Some had the issue of not being able to contact the vendor. Jess, apparently is tough to get hold of on the phone and gets back to people when he can, not when they call and need immediate assistance. In this day and age of immediate gratification, this pisses some people off who think they are entitled to immediate results. As a business owner, this just cannot be done when you are a small shop. The bashing of the vendor continued. I finally stepped in and called a spade a spade. The thread was locked. Another thread was started to complain about me calling someone a whiny douche and asking if I was being policed by anyone and asking if I knew who I was talking to.
Frankly, I dont give a damn who you are. When you complain about something that you ignorantly buy without doing your homework, then you're gonna get some from me. As a long time forum member I have seen this crap come and go....there will always be unsatisfied buyers, most due to the fact that they spend a lot of money, and expect big results. They get all mopey when it doesnt go their way.
All the OP had to do was buy a new ECU/PCM core and take his car to a dyno shop and get it tuned. He then could have swapped cores when he went to the shop so that the original setting would remain intact.. This sort of due diligence would have saved time, effort and given way better results by actually taking into account the factors of pressure/temp, etc of the OPs actual location....not just a box tune.
In conclusion....next time you have a beef with a vendor, call them. If you get no satisfaction, PM them and keep it offline.
Any more bashing, and there will be time-outs.....


F

CIWS
07-29-09, 10:30 AM
In conclusion....next time you have a beef with a vendor, call them. If you get no satisfaction, PM them and keep it offline.
Any more bashing, and there will be time-outs.....

F

So let me be clear with what you are saying here. If any forum vendor does not live up to what they are advertising in the forum with their product or service then there is to be no public mention of it in the forum for others to see, it is to all stay private ?

CadV
07-29-09, 10:48 AM
Paying you guys money should not be an excuse for a vendor to be dishonest.

I remember when we exposed StealthV for lying about his tunes and I got banned for a month posting proof. It is no different now because in the end people are going to see we are not making this up.

Florian
07-29-09, 11:03 AM
So let me be clear with what you are saying here. If any forum vendor does not live up to what they are advertising in the forum with their product or service then there is to be no public mention of it in the forum for others to see, it is to all stay private ?

No. What I am saying is before you air your dirty laundry...provide proof, do the homework and post that proof. Dont try, fail, then complain without it. It is likely more the problem of the people doing the install. The folks here are having trouble installing a program off a handheld, that tells me a few things about the aptitude of the clientele. Some are wrenchers, and you can tell who they are....they have a valid beef....but I want to see proof. W4M has posted his numbers with his products and they seem to validate the claims. I have yet to see the other side....there is a thread asking for them, but as far as I can see, no proof.
So before everyone dog-piles W4M, at least have a good reason other than he isnt being responsive to your phone calls.

I dont think that is too much to ask....if the claims arent vaild, then we will take the appropriate actions.


F

CIWS
07-29-09, 11:06 AM
Very well, understood.

1BlinkGone
07-29-09, 06:20 PM
Personally, I haven't detected one false claim from Jesse. This is where it is important that the buyer pay full attention to the claims and context OF those claims, and has understanding. Ask questions. Make sure you know what is being offered and the probable outcome.

On another note: Florian, your closing post had me rolling. "we are now closed"
It reminded me of Roz from Monsters, Inc. (my favorite character in that flick)

I love it.

:histeric:

kck
07-30-09, 12:49 AM
I want to compliment Fubar75207 regarding his great post on “Be Nice” (see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/175855-nice.html ) -- that he notes his friend created for another forum. Bravo!! I think these extremely well articulated observations provide precisely the “right tone” for how an outstanding forum should be conducted.

I’m responding on this thread rather than the thread where Fubar75207 actually posted his “Be Nice” document because I want to “follow-up” on some of the comments on this current thread. Let me begin by stating my support for the position that musclesbmf and other forum members have taken in praising Jesse (Wait4me) for his great service to our (very small) community of V2 owners, which I have further detailed on another thread (see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/175574-dyno-part-deux-4.html) -- a thread that musclesbmf has also repeatedly posted on (and see also his comments at http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/175598-wait-me-performance-buyer-beware.html).

I would like to add here that I also really appreciate the “gentlemanly” demeanor that Jesse exemplifies in his response to criticisms of his business (i.e., providing performance enhancements for our V2s). I have monitored this forum for quite some time now, including especially the huge volume of posts that Jesse has made, and I cannot recall Jesse ever responding to criticisms directed at him by engaging in any denigration of his critics or anything that could even remotely be construed as “name-calling” – even when some of the criticisms directed at him might be perceived as personal attacks (such as possibly even questioning his integrity).

I have noticed that Jesse has been absent from our forum for a few days. I hope this absence is due to how busy he is, and not that he has become so frustrated over the criticisms he has received that he may have decided to quit providing us his immense expertise and his excellent (and ridiculously inexpensive) performance products -- a fear of losing Jesse that “haterinc” has also at least implied in his comments (see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/175574-dyno-part-deux-3.html).

I will readily admit my “selfishness” in not wanting Jesse to leave us, given that I plan on stopping at his shop in Indiana to have him install a large number of his performance enhancements. I feel very fortunate to own such a great car as the V2. However, though I make a comfortable living, I’m not wealthy. Consequently, I really appreciate the extremely affordable performance mods (and installation prices) that Jesse offers. So, Jesse, please do not abandon us!!!

I’d like to turn now to some “broader” issues regarding our debate over how to provide the best possible “forum environment.” As a complete “newbie,” I have made a number of posts on our forum seeking information regarding my new V2 – and only occasionally attempting to provide information as (partial) “pay-back” for what I receive from our experts on the forum. I have to say that I have personally never received anything but the kindest responses to my “newbie” inquiries. And I find the information provided on the forum as absolutely invaluable for a new owner of a V2, especially for someone like myself who has had only limited experience with performance cars and no mechanical experience. (OK, I did learn to adjust the solid lifters on the Camaro Z-28 I owned way back in my early twenties, but that hardly counts as mechanical experience, especially when compared to the very extensive mechanical and “racing” backgrounds of so many forum members!) And I do think that the overall “tenor” of this forum is most often very “friendly.” But I will admit to being embarrassed on more than one occasion by the “attacks” on forum members who have attempted to provide their (clearly) honest and necessarily “subjective” evaluations of the V2 compared to rival models. I absolutely love my new V (and it’s not yet even broken in enough to afford me the opportunity to really test its “straight-line” performance)… and I can’t believe that I own such a car. Also, even a cursory examination of all the multitude of car magazine reviews involving the V2 versus the competition would suggest that the V2 is the “hands-down” best bang-for-the-buck performance sedan currently on the market. But having said that, the V2 clearly has weaknesses (as any car does). Blasting persons who attempt to point out weaknesses in the V2 (real or imagined) should not be met with name-calling.

As but one recent example, Tony407 provided a very thorough (and clearly heartfelt) review of his new V2 versus his recently-owned (and reluctantly-sold) Jaguar XF. (See http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/173096-xf-r-vs-cts-v-2.html) Among other relative strengths of the Jaguar, Tony noted that it felt “more responsive” (and even faster) than his V2, even though he acknowledged that his V2 was “obviously faster” (by which I assume he means based on differences between the two cars in their relative horsepower ratings and actual performance specs reported in car reviews). Indeed, these specific subjective impressions of Tony were later at least partially supported by observations that Road & Track made in their review of the V2 vs. the Jag (i.e., the Jag has better torque at lower rpm, and a more aggressive exhaust note) – a review that nevertheless ultimately gave the overall “win” to the V2 (see http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=8146). But Tony took much heat for his review – such as being referred to as a “Euro snob,” among other denigrating comments.

Thankfully, Tony407 continues to make posts on his experiences. In fact, he recently reported that he had Jesse’s “transmission tune” installed, and that the results were so impressive that he could no longer state that his Jag felt more responsive and faster than his V (see his first two posts at http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/174942-wait4me-tune-you-guys-werent-kidding.html#post1945423). I found Tony407’s comments regarding the value of Jesse’s transmission tune especially credible, given that he had been so “forthright” in previously describing this perceived weakness in the V. It is also the case that a number of other persons have also noted how much more responsive the V is after this Wait4me transmission tune. In other words, a relative lack of responsiveness really does appear to be a “weakness” of the V, and Tony should be applauded (not criticized) for pointing it out. And the really cool thing is that it can be “corrected” with Jesse’s transmission tune – which is yet another testament to the valuable service Jesse provides us.

With all of the above as “backdrop,” I would like to raise an additional issue regarding what I think constitutes an inappropriate “censorship” of some posts on this forum. I’m specifically referring to a thread started by “kencav” yesterday (Tuesday) in which he protested the language used by our moderator, Florian. I have no doubt that moderating this forum is a time-consuming job, and we should all be very appreciative of the work Florian puts into it. But removing that thread from the forum is a very bad practice, in my opinion. As readers of this thread (and related threads) are well aware, Kencav and CadV have had strong opinions about the service (or lack thereof) that they perceive they have received from Jesse. Although I have generally disagreed with their position (as I’ve noted above), I think we all can understand their frustration when they have a car down that they are depending on, and they cannot get hold of Jesse (who, it would appear, is desperately “trying to keep his head above water”) . However, I was not generally upset that Florian chose to eventually “lock” the original thread that contained the strongest protests (i.e., http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/175598-wait-me-performance-buyer-beware.html). I appreciate that at some point, forum members are no longer potentially benefiting from the exchange of information, and a thread can eventually deteriorate into nothing more than “name-calling.” And I would especially praise Florian for not removing the thread that he locked, given that I think forum members should be exposed to opposing views regarding Jesse’s performance products, and honest opinions regarding the perceived quality of his services – a position that CIWS very well articulates in his posts on this current thread.

However, I think kencav raised appropriate concerns in the removed thread regarding the language that Florian used in dismissing kencav’s and CadV’s criticisms. Here’s what I posted on the removed thread in support of kencav’s position that Florian was being disrespectful in his “name-calling”:

[[Quote:
kencav:
I posted comments on another thread that are clearly sympathetic to Jesse’s performance products and his immense contributions to our (very small) CTS-V community in general (see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/175574-dyno-part-deux-4.html). But I have to admit that I found Florian’s comments regarding your and CadV’s complaints to be a bit harsh. I’m hoping he intended them to be humorous.

As musclesbmf has noted, it does speak well for the forum that moderators have not censored the complaints. I’m a great believer in free speech, and the exchange of different points of view – especially absent any “name-calling.”
I sincerely hope you are able to ultimately resolve all the frustrating issues you have confronted.

Kyle End Quote]]

Given his position as a moderator of this forum, I believe that Florian should “bend over backwards” to keep the tone of his language as “neutral” as possible – consistent with the outstanding recommendations in the “Be Nice” document that Fubar75207 has posted for forum members. A moderator has enormous power, so it is especially important that he set an example of the proper tone in exchanging posts on our (incredibly useful) forum. Referring to other posters as “being a bunch of douches” is certainly not the proper tone!! I think we all need occasional reminders of what is appropriately “neutral” language in the exchanging of posts, and the moderator (especially) should not be an exception to receiving those reminders. To reiterate my earlier comment, I think we could all benefit from using Jesse’s own “gentlemanly” posts as an “exemplar” of how to respond to other posts, even when they may seem like very personal attacks.

Likewise, given the power of the moderator, and the importance of perceiving this person as exceptionally fair and impartial, I think that it is especially important that criticisms of the moderator (even ones that he may think are very inappropriate personal attacks) not be censored. Consistent with my earlier comments, I would not have a problem with a moderator deciding to “lock” a thread that was critical of him – as long as forum members have had an ample opportunity to “vent” their objections to some action the moderator had taken specifically, or to general policies of the forum itself. But even if (multiple) pages of criticisms were eventually “locked down,” in my opinion they should not be removed from view.

I also sincerely hope that CadV and kencav will not feel like they are no longer welcome on the V2 forum. I am confident that I speak for a number of other forum members in saying how much we appreciate their reporting on their initial experiences with Jesse’s mail-order mods. As “early adopters,” they could rightly be described as “brave pioneers.”

So my personal message to CadV and kencav is as follows: Please continue to report on your successes and failures in what others have noted is often a very frustrating endeavor, but what will (hopefully) ultimately prove to be a rewarding upgrade to your V.

As a final statement (and then I promise to get off my “soap box”), I would like to suggest that Fubar75207 (or our moderators) occasionally “repost” the observations regarding “Being Nice” as additional “reminders” of how we would like the exchange of information on our forum to be conducted. Human nature being what it is, I strongly suspect that, having read Fubar75207 document today, many of us will exercise better language in our exchanges for the immediate future, but that there is likely to be some “drift” back to harsher exchanges in the more distant future. So occasional “prods” to please express “respect” for our fellow forum members in our “spirited exchanges” may hopefully prove helpful.

Kyle

Hawkeye2
07-30-09, 05:39 AM
Kyle, nicely stated.

Florian
07-30-09, 01:42 PM
This topic/issue has been put to bed KCK....lets leave sleeping dogs lie....


F

musclesbmf
07-30-09, 02:58 PM
KCK...
I love the thoroughness of your post.

Well done and well said,
Mark

Fubar75207
07-30-09, 03:01 PM
I am glad you agreed with the sentiments in my previous post kck. I think you made some very valid points and I concur on all levels of that post.

Let me add one additional element, as we seem to be hung-up a bit on Florian. I have had the opportunity to serve as a moderator on another forum and it can be more stressful than it appears at first glance. Florian takes the time to read though hundreds of posts and he must take the time to understand the subject and make sure that (at the very least) the rules are being adhered to. While doing this you inevitable run across the same members skating rules or breaking them altogether. It is easy to become "short." As a mother might with several children to watch over (which might explain his avatar). That fact that this site has so many members is a testament to the moderation teams ability to keep the tone civil. As much as it may have seemed that my "Be Nice" thread was directed at Florian... it was intended for anyone who uses a web forum, members, moderator and owners alike.

Regards
FUBAR
Trying to Be Nice, even when it hurts.

Florian
07-30-09, 03:42 PM
thanks, Fubar!


F

kck
07-30-09, 04:38 PM
Fubar75207:
I can honestly say that I definitely did not perceive your “Be Nice” post as being directed at Florian. I just thought it was a great “template” for why “forum etiquette” is important (your friend is a “wordsmith” to be envied!), and that it was intended for all forum members in general, and especially for thus of us participating in the threads discussing Wait4me mods.

I also really do appreciate your follow-up post in highlighting the difficult task Florian faces in (exhaustively) moderating our very active forum! I was certainly not intending to “pile on” Florian, and I sincerely apologize, if I came across that way.

Finally, I think the follow-up responses to your “Be Nice” post at its new location at the “Cadillac Forums Lounge / Member Introductions” may be of interest to our V2 forum readers who, like me, may never read Cadillac forums other than our V2-specific one. Some of those responses to your post at its “broader location” suggest that members of the V2 forum are perceived as “arrogant” and that our forum is an “unfriendly” place to post. I certainly hope (and believe) that “arrogant” is not an apt description of what characterizes the vast majority of comments made on the V2 forum.

Kyle

Florian
07-30-09, 04:44 PM
Well said, Kyle.....and no, no offense taken


F