: Dyno Part Deux



CadV
07-26-09, 01:03 AM
Ok guys had a chance to dyno the car again. I want to mention I have been asking for an updated tune from Jessie for a week and he did not get it to me. It sucks not being able to depend on someone you spent a lot of money with.

I want to thank the guys at SNL Performance for working on this all day. We were able to prove a lot of stuff and they are going to help me overcome the rest of the problems. For the first time I feel like a shop is in the trench with me instead of blowing me off.

It was hot out guys most of my runs it was 100 degrees. We tried every possible combination on the valves (reference p valve thread) and it made zero difference but more about that later.

SAE showing the following configs:

1) Stock tune (Uber lean had to shutdown)
2) Modded stock airbox with tune.
3) 4" intake with tune (Using tune from number 2 with 4" intake brought about a 10.5 AF) So you guys throwing a 4" intake on and not adjusting your tune are going to be pig rich.

http://i28.tinypic.com/6924xu.jpg

More information on top run with 4" intake:

http://i25.tinypic.com/20zr1c0.jpg

Standard instead of SAE:

http://i29.tinypic.com/1112fzd.jpg

Now here comes the interesting part.

http://i27.tinypic.com/291ixvt.jpg

You can get psi from kPa. It comes to 12 pounds of boost. Hmm supposed to be a 15 :confused:

This is starting to make sense because at 12psi my numbers are pretty close. If we dyno 450 stock and for every pound is 25rwhp that gives me roughly 525rwhp since I am 3 pounds over stock. I called a friend (Brent) who has the same mods as me and he is getting the exact same thing. 12psi across the board. He even hooked up a manual boost gauge to make sure and it showed between 12psi. I encourage everyone who thinks they are running over 12psi to dyno their car and see what you are really getting. My in car boost gauge shows 15 but I am not getting it in reality.

I am wondering if there is some kind of restriction in the tune or mechanically with the car? If you are getting over 12psi please let us know how you did it.

SNL did say I should have enough fuel to hit 600 but the limiting factor is boost.

jwa999
07-26-09, 04:09 AM
Yeah, i feel for you, Cliff. Jesse suggested this new tune for me, was about to send it to me, but i forgot the vin. Then my tranny blew up. Then the next moment, he can't send out tunes, while *I* got the software that updates the firmware and tunes working just fine. (There was a problem with the USB cable. Rudy@SCTflash explained you need to get a fat USB cable, the one that was shipped with the hand held doesn't always work. I used my canon printer cable!). So, I didn't understand why he couldn't send out the cef files.

Now he can send out updated tunes, but I read all over the forum ppl having trouble getting their tune. Kencav had to prod him for a 160 tune, others keep sending him PMs to get updated tunes. "Get free updates for life" his website clearly states. Now I understand you don't wanna deal with every nilly willy request, but it's not very good business practice to keep your customers waiting. I have promoted Jesse's services on this forum and gave him nothing but praise, but I'm starting to loose confidence. Especially when customers, like you Cliff, start being ignored.

I tested out the new firmware for him, so I can make new customers feel more confident, but at the same time, i'd like to actually download a new tune. I was planning to get the 4" intake and the crank pulley and later the exhaust pipes, but i'm starting to wonder a little.

Sorry if this criticism sound harsh Jesse, but I've noticed a lack of attention from you for several forum members...

Hans.

aceofblitz
07-26-09, 05:44 AM
Im just wondering if you bothered calling him or his wife, they're both a phone call away and I found out that it is the easiest way to contact them

Razorecko
07-26-09, 10:41 AM
awesome write up cadv...on the 4" intake run did you run the 4" intake and the 90mm TB at the same time ? also what 4" intake do you have again ? - I dyno'd recently with the stock tune on the 4" cai & the 90mm TB and saw major pullback towards the top end...although in the middle i peaked at about 12.00 flat and at the top went to low 11's. Obviously these mods are useless without a tune. I'm also waiting for Jesse to get me a tune that will work with the full 90mm tb & 4" intake.

CadV
07-26-09, 10:46 AM
Im just wondering if you bothered calling him or his wife, they're both a phone call away and I found out that it is the easiest way to contact them

How do you know we didn't called him? Listen I got Jesse on this forum. I have spent a lot of money with him and the whole process has been very frustrating.

My friend Brent has had his car in the shop for a couple weeks waiting on a tune update. Every day we call or email and we get I will get it to you today and then nothing.

I begged him for a week to give me an update because I was dynoing my car. He knew full well all the problems I have been having.

That good customer service?

Now me and my friend are in a position where we were promised 15 psi with our mods and only get 12. If we want to go back to stock we have to buy another blower.

CadV
07-26-09, 10:49 AM
awesome write up cadv...on the 4" intake run did you run the 4" intake and the 90mm TB at the same time ? also what 4" intake do you have again ? - I dyno'd recently with the stock tune on the 4" cai & the 90mm TB and saw major pullback towards the top end...although in the middle i peaked at about 12.00 flat and at the top went to low 11's. Obviously these mods are useless without a tune. I'm also waiting for Jesse to get me a tune that will work with the full 90mm tb & 4" intake.

Hey Raz!

Yes I had the 90mm ported polished TB on the whole time. I have the wait4me 4" intake. Once you get the tune your car will feel much better but don't hold your breathe getting an updated tune. I would take the 4" off until you get a tune. It just makes it run too rich.

CadV
07-26-09, 10:52 AM
Yeah, i feel for you, Cliff. Jesse suggested this new tune for me, was about to send it to me, but i forgot the vin. Then my tranny blew up. Then the next moment, he can't send out tunes, while *I* got the software that updates the firmware and tunes working just fine. (There was a problem with the USB cable. Rudy@SCTflash explained you need to get a fat USB cable, the one that was shipped with the hand held doesn't always work. I used my canon printer cable!). So, I didn't understand why he couldn't send out the cef files.

Now he can send out updated tunes, but I read all over the forum ppl having trouble getting their tune. Kencav had to prod him for a 160 tune, others keep sending him PMs to get updated tunes. "Get free updates for life" his website clearly states. Now I understand you don't wanna deal with every nilly willy request, but it's not very good business practice to keep your customers waiting. I have promoted Jesse's services on this forum and gave him nothing but praise, but I'm starting to loose confidence. Especially when customers, like you Cliff, start being ignored.

I tested out the new firmware for him, so I can make new customers feel more confident, but at the same time, i'd like to actually download a new tune. I was planning to get the 4" intake and the crank pulley and later the exhaust pipes, but i'm starting to wonder a little.

Sorry if this criticism sound harsh Jesse, but I've noticed a lack of attention from you for several forum members...

Hans.

Appreciate the feedback Hans. I encourage everyone to wait until we figure out the boost problem especially if your going to try and hit 600rwhp. It is overkill if all you can get is 12psi.

The amount of misinformation going around is so much I am trying to get real facts and SNL feels the same way.

Razorecko
07-26-09, 10:55 AM
Hey Raz!

Yes I had the 90mm ported polished TB on the whole time. I have the wait4me 4" intake. Once you get the tune your car will feel much better but don't hold your breathe getting an updated tune. I would take the 4" off until you get a tune. It just makes it run too rich.

I'm actually going to get it dyno'd tues w/ JUST the 4" intake and the stock throttle body. I noticed after I pulled the 90mm TB and just ran the 4" after the dyno I was hitting boost alot sooner. I know that usually when you change the size of the TB you NEED a tune....although not so much with the intake so we'll see what happens. We'll have to merge our dyno's after tuesday so to make a good reference point. Its a bummer that so few of us are dyno'ing to see what works and what doesnt.

aceofblitz
07-26-09, 12:00 PM
CadV: well I did consider that you might have called him. I see no reason as to why he wouldn't be able to send you a tune... he did mention once that it takes 20 minutes.
I ordered almost everything from wait4me's list. Didn't install anything yet since I'm away from home. But if anything was wrong with the tune... I'd call him up and if i didn't get what I need.. then i'll just call someone up with an HHPtuner system and dyno tune my car. I think you did all that though... I hope you pin point the problem, you deserve better.

CadV
07-26-09, 12:30 PM
CadV: well I did consider that you might have called him. I see no reason as to why he wouldn't be able to send you a tune... he did mention once that it takes 20 minutes.
I ordered almost everything from wait4me's list. Didn't install anything yet since I'm away from home. But if anything was wrong with the tune... I'd call him up and if i didn't get what I need.. then i'll just call someone up with an HHPtuner system and dyno tune my car. I think you did all that though... I hope you pin point the problem, you deserve better.

Sorry man I apologize for jumping on ya. The whole thing has been pretty frustrating but shouldn't be taking it out on you.

kencav
07-26-09, 12:52 PM
Now I can totally relate to CadV- my CEL fix failed which Jesse insisted I do- he said he would get sued if he shut off the rear o2 sensors on my tune while every other tuner I spoke to told me eveyone does it- so my CEL light comes on again the morning before it has to go into dealer for creaky sunroof- I beg him for an update, he tells me he will send one that night- never sends it! I speak to him and his wife 5 TIMES the following day after cancelling my dealer appt.
At first I thought CadV was harsh but unfortuntley he is dead on accurate regarding WAIT4ME performance

By the way, the only e-mail I ever got without fail within minutes was the paypal request from his wife for more money!

wait4me
07-26-09, 02:19 PM
Ken, i sent you those files A LONG TIME AGO with your fix. Im not sure why you are saying this stuff....

Im only 1 person. Each FILE takes 20 minutes. So 3 tunes takes 60 minutes of time.

If 30 people want tune updates, that is 30 hours right off the bat of time i have to spend to do them. Im sorry that i cant just drop every single thing and jump one person in ahead of everyone else... You guys arent the only ones that spend alot of money on parts....

I cant even count how much phone time and customer support on the phone i have spent with everyone on this board.... Hundreds of hours... Including several 1 hour plus conversations....

Lack of time is the only problem i have, Remeber, im also tuning a ton of other car / truck types so these caddys are only .001 % of my business..... I do them because they are fun and i like messing with them. Other wise, i would just stick to the 40+ tunes i do on the trucks every day.....


AS for my tunes and the hidden factor.. A dealer can not detect them.. That dont mean you as a consumer cant read them out... If i did that then i would get shit from everyone because i locked them.... I can easily lock them..

As for knock stuff, What you see in software tables isnt the whole story. There are alot of things changed in the background that wont show up in any software.....

As for talking with me. IM ALWAYS A PHONE CALL AWAY. Hell i even have answered the phones at 12 midnight when im still here working.... ON a sunday......

I know i cant make every one happy, nor can i jump and just drop everything im doing and do everyones stuff all at once... Everyone wants there stuff instantly and ahead of everyone.. I just cant do it.. People just have to be patient.. I dont like being rushed. Rushed shows potential for messing up..

CadV
07-26-09, 02:24 PM
Now I can totally relate to CadV- my CEL fix failed which Jesse insisted I do- he said he would get sued if he shut off the rear o2 sensors on my tune while every other tuner I spoke to told me eveyone does it- so my CEL light comes on again the morning before it has to go into dealer for creaky sunroof- I beg him for an update, he tells me he will send one that night- never sends it! I speak to him and his wife 5 TIMES the following day after cancelling my dealer appt.
At first I thought CadV was harsh but unfortuntley he is dead on accurate regarding WAIT4ME performance

By the way, the only e-mail I ever got without fail within minutes was the paypal request from his wife for more money!

I feel responsible because I was a big advocate of his bringing him on the forum, posting install guides experiences etc. I don't want to mislead people so I feel it is important to tell the other side and I appreciate everyone else doing the same.

Don't get me wrong the parts he is selling are good quality but from what I have been told he is getting them from Lingenfelter.

It is the fact that he is not providing enough information with the parts he is selling. For example he never told me about the p valve until I called him complaining that I was only doing 515rwhp. He should of told me that up front. Even after doing the mod it did not help any. Then I asked him 5 or 6 times what size belt was needed for 2.55 upper and 8.5 lower and he said 080653 which is incorrect. Then he did not tell me I needed to buy my own bolts for the crank mod. Then he said the 2.55 pulley tune in my handheld would work and I was running 13.5 AF. When your working on a 70k dollar car we need to know the ****ing quirks and tweaks up front. This isn't an FBody for crying out loud. He has put my motor in jeopardy three ****ing times.

Any good business man would be up front about this stuff. If someone bought a upper puley from me I would immediately say you need to cap p port and I would send them instructions on how to do it. Then I would warn them not to get into boost until you get the car dyno tuned.

CadV
07-26-09, 02:41 PM
Im only 1 person. Each FILE takes 20 minutes. So 3 tunes takes 60 minutes of time.

If 30 people want tune updates, that is 30 hours right off the bat of time i have to spend to do them. Im sorry that i cant just drop every single thing and jump one person in ahead of everyone else... You guys arent the only ones that spend alot of money on parts....

I cant even count how much phone time and customer support on the phone i have spent with everyone on this board.... Hundreds of hours... Including several 1 hour plus conversations....

I am sure everyone understands that you are busy but you told me you would get it to me before Saturday. If you make a commitment you should honor it. I don't have a shop, lift to go to whenever I want. I have a 8-5 job where I have to make time out of my day and do this stuff. I can't tell you how much money I have spent on shop times trying to work through this shit.


Lack of time is the only problem i have, Remeber, im also tuning a ton of other car / truck types so these caddys are only .001 % of my business..... I do them because they are fun and i like messing with them. Other wise, i would just stick to the 40+ tunes i do on the trucks every day.....

Hire some people because the end result is your reputation gets ruined and you have plenty of time.


As for talking with me. IM ALWAYS A PHONE CALL AWAY. Hell i even have answered the phones at 12 midnight when im still here working.... ON a sunday......

Trying to get a hold of you on the phone is very difficult. I have your voicemail is full message memorized.

kencav
07-26-09, 04:35 PM
Ken, i sent you those files A LONG TIME AGO with your fix. Im not sure why you are saying this stuff....

Im only 1 person. Each FILE takes 20 minutes. So 3 tunes takes 60 minutes of time.

If 30 people want tune updates, that is 30 hours right off the bat of time i have to spend to do them. Im sorry that i cant just drop every single thing and jump one person in ahead of everyone else... You guys arent the only ones that spend alot of money on parts....

I cant even count how much phone time and customer support on the phone i have spent with everyone on this board.... Hundreds of hours... Including several 1 hour plus conversations....

Lack of time is the only problem i have, Remeber, im also tuning a ton of other car / truck types so these caddys are only .001 % of my business..... I do them because they are fun and i like messing with them. Other wise, i would just stick to the 40+ tunes i do on the trucks every day.....


AS for my tunes and the hidden factor.. A dealer can not detect them.. That dont mean you as a consumer cant read them out... If i did that then i would get shit from everyone because i locked them.... I can easily lock them..

As for knock stuff, What you see in software tables isnt the whole story. There are alot of things changed in the background that wont show up in any software.....

As for talking with me. IM ALWAYS A PHONE CALL AWAY. Hell i even have answered the phones at 12 midnight when im still here working.... ON a sunday......

I know i cant make every one happy, nor can i jump and just drop everything im doing and do everyones stuff all at once... Everyone wants there stuff instantly and ahead of everyone.. I just cant do it.. People just have to be patient.. I dont like being rushed. Rushed shows potential for messing up..

Good to know we will be treated .001 percent then.......

Then don't promise a tune update that day or the next- I don't think I was the only one in that position

So now tunes have to be "locked" so no one can read them- you have to be kidding me- any smart technician at a dealership- and i am sure some have tuned cars before- would bwe wise to this

I think the problem here is being up front with what you can and can't deliver either performance or time wise, then not blaming an installer or other companies part as the reason

And as for my fixed- I called you Thursday morning in distress as my CEL WAS BACK ON AGAIN, you promised Thurs night, I recieved it Mon despite 4 Friday calls to your shop

If its too much trouble then tell people this up front

brent eb02
07-26-09, 04:47 PM
guys im in the same boat....im so sick of all the Lies and BS

i have been waiting for a tune from jesse for over a week... i have the same mods as Cliff and i only have 12 lbs of boost and a pig rich tune and 530 rwhp
instead of 600 rwhp and 15-16 lbs of boost..

i will be starting my own thread about all this W4M BS

funny how NO Body can show me a dyno graph of 600 rwhp with 15-16 lbs of boost with safe a/f/r

kencav
07-26-09, 04:54 PM
I believe like some others we should have waited things out, but someone has to be the sacraficial lamb

Hennesey, regardless of past history looks like a decent option with a warranty on their parts and the desire to rebuild their reputation

A totally stealth tune- too good to be true it usually is:yup:

TAGZO
07-26-09, 08:01 PM
CadV,

Sorry you are having problems. You are running 2.55 pulley and the 8.5 crank? And you got 12psi? So, what will the 2.55 pulley give alone over stock?
Your dyno numbers shows the 2.55 upper pulley results only!

I do have a dyno/tune at my disposal. And have nearly all the parts for my V (upper and crank pulley etc.), but I did not have a chance to install anything yet :( But, no worries, I will start playing with the car soon enough :) I will let you all know what results I get :)

CadV
07-26-09, 08:41 PM
CadV,

Sorry you are having problems. You are running 2.55 pulley and the 8.5 crank? And you got 12psi? So, what will the 2.55 pulley give alone over stock?
Your dyno numbers shows the 2.55 upper pulley results only!

I do have a dyno/tune at my disposal. And have nearly all the parts for my V (upper and crank pulley etc.), but I did not have a chance to install anything yet :( But, no worries, I will start playing with the car soon enough :) I will let you all know what results I get :)

Upper alone should give me 12 and the p valve mod an additional 1.. The 8.5 lower should give me another 2 or at least that is what I was promised :)

The 12psi restriction should be present on every car and that is why I doubt any 600rwhp numbers.

TAGZO
07-27-09, 04:50 AM
Upper alone should give me 12 and the p valve mod an additional 1.. The 8.5 lower should give me another 2 or at least that is what I was promised :)

The 12psi restriction should be present on every car and that is why I doubt any 600rwhp numbers.
Thanks!

i will start playing with my car soon. i will share all my findings with you guys. have you tried the 9.5 ring with your setup? maybe you can hit more boost :)

CIWS
07-27-09, 08:25 AM
The 12psi restriction should be present on every car and that is why I doubt any 600rwhp numbers.

Where is the excess pressure bleed off set on the 09 CTS-V ? On the STS-V it's solenoid on/under the S/C.


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/1425442-post34.html

musclesbmf
07-27-09, 11:39 AM
Just my .02 on the situation....
1.) As soon as you start modding your car, you take your own risk of destroying it. I'm happy to take that risk as $$ permits.
2.) Boosted cars are much more finicky than N/A cars, so getting email tunes is a risk in and of itself. Multiply this risk when you start increasing the boost numbers.
3.) The best way to make sure the car is tuned correctly and safelt with an approx A/F of 11.5 is to dyno tune it. The benefit of using Jesse's tunes are that they cannot be detected after installing and removing. HP Tuners and LS Edit are detectable and the dealer will void a warranty immediately for having modifed the ECU. Just check out corvetteforum in the Z06 section if you doubt it.

Bottom line is this... No one has more knowledge of these cars and how to tune them and make them fast than W4M. I know it is frustrating when you don't get the full picture or your numbers are different than anothers, etc. But for a one man shop that serves a huge community of programmed ECU's, I personally think he does quite a nice job. I have spent time on the phone asking him "stupid" questions and he answeres all of them and is never in a rush to get me off the phone. Is he always reachable? No, but neither is other performance shops that you call. If you don't like the tune, get one of these local shops to dyno tune and use their "expertise" to get you max numbers. They obviously aren't too familiar with the cars themselves, because they are relying on Jesse's info just like all of us.

from my understanding, there are 2 things that limit the boost on our cars after changing pulley sizes. The first is the ECU. The ECU has to be modified to allow more boost. If it senses "overboost" it will bleed the boost off. Secodn is the "p-valve". I believe that after 13psi, it will bleed boost off. I don't see how capping the p-valve will increase boost, but I do see how it will prevent it from bleeding boost off.

Lastly, we are at the peak of summer where boosted cars run their worst. I'm not saying that 100* whether will lose 3psi of boost, but I wouldn't expect max boost when the weather is that hot and the humidity is up. In the winter or fall is when our cars are at their best.

Just food for thought and my $.02.

Mark

Razorecko
07-27-09, 11:43 AM
^ good points....i've even suggest that it might be easier for Jesse/members if there is a thread w/ a list of people requesting updated tunes. That way everyone will know where they stand in line.

Gotham CTS-V
07-27-09, 11:47 AM
CadV and Ken, I'm sorry to hear about how things are for you guys. I have spoken to a few people with the basic crank pulley, intake, and tune. There cars run perfectly fine and run great on the highways. Hopefully things work out. These are new cars and perhaps the best thing to do if you plan on modding is to stick with a basic package, like airbox mod, 9" pulley, tune. Install, plug in, and done. Should be problem free and great gains. Goodluck though!


Just my .02 on the situation....
1.) As soon as you start modding your car, you take your own risk of destroying it. I'm happy to take that risk as $$ permits.
2.) Boosted cars are much more finicky than N/A cars, so getting email tunes is a risk in and of itself. Multiply this risk when you start increasing the boost numbers.
3.) The best way to make sure the car is tuned correctly and safelt with an approx A/F of 11.5 is to dyno tune it. The benefit of using Jesse's tunes are that they cannot be detected after installing and removing. HP Tuners and LS Edit are detectable and the dealer will void a warranty immediately for having modifed the ECU. Just check out corvetteforum in the Z06 section if you doubt it.

Bottom line is this... No one has more knowledge of these cars and how to tune them and make them fast than W4M. I know it is frustrating when you don't get the full picture or your numbers are different than anothers, etc. But for a one man shop that serves a huge community of programmed ECU's, I personally think he does quite a nice job. I have spent time on the phone asking him "stupid" questions and he answeres all of them and is never in a rush to get me off the phone. Is he always reachable? No, but neither is other performance shops that you call. If you don't like the tune, get one of these local shops to dyno tune and use their "expertise" to get you max numbers. They obviously aren't too familiar with the cars themselves, because they are relying on Jesse's info just like all of us.

from my understanding, there are 2 things that limit the boost on our cars after changing pulley sizes. The first is the ECU. The ECU has to be modified to allow more boost. If it senses "overboost" it will bleed the boost off. Secodn is the "p-valve". I believe that after 13psi, it will bleed boost off. I don't see how capping the p-valve will increase boost, but I do see how it will prevent it from bleeding boost off.

Lastly, we are at the peak of summer where boosted cars run their worst. I'm not saying that 100* whether will lose 3psi of boost, but I wouldn't expect max boost when the weather is that hot and the humidity is up. In the winter or fall is when our cars are at their best.

Just food for thought and my $.02.

Mark


+1

Off topic and not related to W4M at all but, I also believe that this winter weather is a huge contributing factor as to why we aren't seeing amazing 1/4 mile runs and dyno #'s.

Fall time we should be seeing some insane runs where guys break records at track rentals, just as it's always been in the past. Same thing with the dyno. Dyno's always will show up lower because of heat and humidity.

CIWS
07-27-09, 12:05 PM
Bottom line is this... No one has more knowledge of these cars and how to tune them and make them fast

Try taking a look at Lingenfelter, you'll probably see something familiar.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/engine-packages/cadillac/cadillac-cts-v-lsa-2009/378-cid-lsa-supercharger-pulley-upgrade-2009

musclesbmf
07-27-09, 01:25 PM
Try taking a look at Lingenfelter, you'll probably see something familiar.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/engine-packages/cadillac/cadillac-cts-v-lsa-2009/378-cid-lsa-supercharger-pulley-upgrade-2009

Never said he was the only one, just in my opinion the best option we have and the best prices too. He has stated many times what his profit margins are (miniscule) and that he does this for fun for us. Only vendor I know of that freely shares his info with the community.

But that is why we have options. Differrent strokes for different folks.

Mark

wait4me
07-27-09, 01:35 PM
On that page, if you look at the bottom where it shows the price for a kit that you can order online, im selling the same type of stuff/better for exactly $427. That is 1000 cheaper.....

CadV
07-27-09, 01:50 PM
Where is the excess pressure bleed off set on the 09 CTS-V ? On the STS-V it's solenoid on/under the S/C.


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/1425442-post34.html

There is a p valve thread and it looks similar to your link.

stealthjr
07-27-09, 01:51 PM
On that page, if you look at the bottom where it shows the price for a kit that you can order online, im selling the same type of stuff/better for exactly $427. That is 1000 cheaper.....


Jesse,

I assume you meant $1427???? :hmm:

Thanks,

Robert

TAGZO
07-27-09, 01:57 PM
If that cable is pulled, boost bypass will be in effect as I understand! So if we disconnected it full boost will be applied. I mean passing 12 psi; Right?

CadV
07-27-09, 01:57 PM
Bottom line is this... No one has more knowledge of these cars and how to tune them and make them fast than W4M. I know it is frustrating when you don't get the full picture or your numbers are different than anothers, etc.

Wait till more people quit trusting him and actual go dyno their cars. I am not talking about people buying some of his mods I am talking about increasing boost.


from my understanding, there are 2 things that limit the boost on our cars after changing pulley sizes. The first is the ECU. The ECU has to be modified to allow more boost. If it senses "overboost" it will bleed the boost off. Secodn is the "p-valve". I believe that after 13psi, it will bleed boost off. I don't see how capping the p-valve will increase boost, but I do see how it will prevent it from bleeding boost off.

What do you modify in the ECU for more boost? Another guy with the same mods ran his tune and the manual boost gauge showed 12.

CadV
07-27-09, 01:58 PM
If that cable is pulled, boost bypass will be in effect as I understand! So if we disconnected it full boost will be applied. I mean passing 12 psi; Right?

We did every which way with the cables and it made zero difference.

I really look forward to your results.

wait4me
07-27-09, 02:00 PM
No. Im saying,

upper pully 2.55 in diameter. $150.
cold air inlet partial kit with no filter $200.
upper torsional isolator, $77
Is $427 to order thru my shop..
Which is what you get in the kit thru that site...

If someone sends me the ecm, i program them for $125.

Luna.
07-27-09, 02:00 PM
So now tunes have to be "locked" so no one can read them- you have to be kidding me- any smart technician at a dealership- and i am sure some have tuned cars before- would bwe wise to this



Isn't it common for tunes to be locked, especially those that are non-dynoed? :confused:

Stealth used to lock his tunes for proprietary reasons.

And is there any way to shrink those dyno pics?

The Tony Show
07-27-09, 02:01 PM
Stealth only locked his tunes by request- if an issue came up that endangered the car, he wanted people to be able to take it to a local place and have it fixed. I remember checking the "no" for locking the tune on my StealthV order form.

wait4me
07-27-09, 02:05 PM
Guys this is simple. When you bypass the p valve, you just make it work EXACTLY like every aftermarket maggy supercharger out there. You are just eliminating the automatic over boost bleed off...

YOU STILL HAVE A FULLY WORKING BYPASS VALVE.

THE OVERBOOST PROTECTION MEANS IF YOU ADD BOOST VIA PULLYS IT WILL TRY TO PULL BOOST.

IT IS SIMPLE.


And CADV, there are A ton of people AND SHOPS that have dynoed and checked airfuel ratios with my tunes.... Hell you can buy a wideband for 200 bucks and check for your self pretty simple via http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

haterinc
07-27-09, 02:09 PM
pulley, belt, coupler, intake tube, tune... its nothing Jesse hasn't been offering to the community already at dirt cheap prices... if he has that package for 427 that would be pretty amazing, but even at half of LP's price would be a steal. nothing against LP either because i've always admired their work as well and honestly, they like Hennessey are out to make money and rightfully so. i'm not exactly so convinced i'd go through all of this sh!t to help the community for a profit that wouldn't take a family of 2 to dinner... if it were me, i'd have 2 options his base price for the diy guy that wanted to figure it out himself with his local shop and a support package price that will get you to the head of the pack for question and answer sessions. otherwise, it just wouldn't be worth my time. luckily i live close enough to IN that i won't mind making a trip to see him.

Luna.
07-27-09, 02:13 PM
Stealth only locked his tunes by request- if an issue came up that endangered the car, he wanted people to be able to take it to a local place and have it fixed. I remember checking the "no" for locking the tune on my StealthV order form.


That isn't my recollection at all. I'm a little busy at the moment, so researching it right now isn't going to work, but I'm pretty sure that I read a few threads in the '04-'07 boards discussing this exact issue and his concerns about people stealing his information. And the idea that he wanted people to take it to the local shop to have it fixed was exactly 100% NOT CORRECT when I got my tune. He specifically did NOT want that to happen. Perhaps he subsequently changed or something, but that is not at all my understanding, nor how it worked with me.

I would also ask myself why one would ever choose to have their own PCM locked...that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And it wasn't like Stealth was informing customers as to what the password was so they could get in at their leisure...

One thing I can promise you---he locked mine and that was NOT from any request I made. Charlie from A&A Corvette (at that time) tried to adjust his tune, for Stealth's tune did NOT work well in my '05 V at all, but he was locked out. The only way I could make any adjustments was to either (1) completely write over his tune with the stock tune or (2) send it back to Stealth and have him delete his tune. I tried (1), but that failed and I had to send my PCM back to Stealth in MN to unlock it (it turned out there was some other issue with the PCM, but that is another story...).

Note that Stealth was willing to help, which was appreciated. I'm not bashing him, for I can understand his concern. I just thought it was commonplace to lock tunes, especially mail-order tunes.

CadV
07-27-09, 02:15 PM
And CADV, there are A ton of people AND SHOPS that have dynoed and checked airfuel ratios with my tunes.... Hell you can buy a wideband for 200 bucks and check for your self pretty simple via http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

Yeah we have heard how much you have done this and that but in the end it is all hot air without proof.

I am more concerned that you said I would get 15psi from the 2.55 upper and 8.5 lower. I want to see a video with a 600rwhp (Or close) dyno with a manual boost gauge showing anything over 12psi. Either the combination of pullies I am running does not produce 15 psi or there is a restriction somewhere in the car that even you are not aware of.

Did you ever hook a manual boost gauge up or did you trust the in car gauge? My in car is 15 while I am really getting 12.

If it is so simple and I am so wrong prove it and I will apologize to the entire board.

Please stay on topic guys this thread is not about tunes. This is about a promise made to the board that we could get close to 600rwhp. I really look forward to TAGZO results, I have every confidence he will run into the same thing.

wait4me
07-27-09, 02:35 PM
ALL my dynos posted in that thread HAVE MECHANICAL BOOST GAUGE values at the bottom of the dynos. It was clear at the bottom showing boost levels... INCLUDING in the videos, we read out the boost level at the end of the runs.

YouTube - 598 horse power 2009 CTS v cadillac lots of boost and 3 inch exhaust dyno sheet. Also there are some dyno sheets posted around on this forum somewhere with the boost levels. It is in high definition so you should see the numbers clearly...

CIWS
07-27-09, 03:06 PM
No. Im saying,

upper pully 2.55 in diameter. $150.
cold air inlet partial kit with no filter $200.
upper torsional isolator, $77
Is $427 to order thru my shop..
Which is what you get in the kit thru that site...

If someone sends me the ecm, i program them for $125.

So is that a ported and polished throttle body in that 427.00 as well ? I see that listed as part of their kit.

jwa999
07-27-09, 03:10 PM
So is that a ported and polished throttle body in that 427.00 as well ? I see that listed as part of their kit.

They also must be doing something with the stock airbox... Changing filters alone won't do...

wait4me
07-27-09, 03:12 PM
That is part of thier 24xx dollar kit, It is just taking the stock one and cleaning off the inside. I do not believe they are including a spare ported supercharger snout assembly for that price.

wait4me
07-27-09, 03:15 PM
I beleive they are using the stock box/ and filter. They just change the elbow, and the humphose.

CIWS
07-27-09, 03:22 PM
That is part of thier 24xx dollar kit, It is just taking the stock one and cleaning off the inside. I do not believe they are including a spare ported supercharger snout assembly for that price.

Very well, that would make some sense that it's something they do while they have the car. You'd probably have to send it in and have it done at some extra charge if you purchased the kit.

wait4me
07-27-09, 03:25 PM
Correct. It takes less than an hour, I posted in a video for you guys on what it should look like when you port the inside snout. I forgot what one it was though. Maybe the install video...

CadV
07-27-09, 03:26 PM
Be nice if it was a continuous video.

So the only difference is you have a manual and we have autos. You have any dynos of automatics doing close to 600?

Brent is going to go from a 8.5 crank to a 9 and see if anything changes on boost. If he gets 12 again autos must be limited some how.

Really would be nice to see more dynos of stick and auto cars.

wait4me
07-27-09, 03:32 PM
Autos have a limiting system to REQUEST the amount of torque applied. If you remove it, it WILL kill your transmission. I leave it in place so people dont blow thier trans. What you see on the dyno and what you get on the street are 2 different things, as the dyno 3000lb drum isnt applying the same load you see in the street.

But yes, to answer your question, Usually on the same mods, the autos part for part have been producing nearly the same results.. I have posted this, as well as henessy, lingenfelter, ect... Manuals are rare. So 99% of all the cars we have done thru here are autos.. I post things as accurate as i can. I even tell people what gains what and if it is a waste of money....

musclesbmf
07-27-09, 04:01 PM
ok... lets ask some simple questions here and lets hope we'll get a black and whit answer...
we ll know there is over boost protection on these cars. So....

1.) what items are "protecting" the car from overboost (ecm, p-valve, other things)?
2.) what needs to be changed in the tune (if anything) to eliminate problems there. There has to be a specific table and values if this is an issue.
3.) what needs to be changed on/in the p-valve to allow more than 12psi? pics and instructions would be best.

Anything I missed?
We all just want the black and white on this issue.

Thanks,
Mark

musclesbmf
07-27-09, 04:02 PM
Jesse,
this "REQUEST" on the amount of torque applied to the auto tranny... is it an on and off thing, or is it on a percentage scale?

Mark

Gotham CTS-V
07-27-09, 04:27 PM
Jesse, on the auto transmission, are you referring to GM's Torque Management? If so, then I understand as from what I remember, GM put it in to protect the trannies from damage. I'm sure that with modded cars, the damage would be much worse. I also remember that Torque Management only cut in on redline shifts and it otherwise makes no difference.

Jesse, also will the P-valve mod increase the performance of my car or will it make no difference? If it is free hp for a car with my mods, then I am down to get it done.

Thank you.

kck
07-27-09, 11:41 PM
Guys:
I’m not looking to get flamed here, but I have to agree with “musclesbmf” that mail order mods are going to be a riskier proposition no matter how reputable the company is that sends them to you. As Jesse clearly states on another thread (see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/175598-wait-me-performance-buyer-beware-3.html), he guarantees his mods work, if you allow him to install them in his own shop. It’s obviously more difficult to guarantee the mods work when he can’t directly see how the mods are installed and he can’t play with various settings himself. I personally would never take the risk of having other shops install Jesse’s mods (although I have the impression that there are shops that have successfully done so). And I certainly do not have the mechanical background to ever consider doing such mods myself.

I have reviewed comments on this forum extensively for at least the past 6 months (ever since I decided I wanted to purchase a V). Although I have essentially no technical expertise in performance modifications, my background in statistics and research methods has made me (but possibly only in “my own mind”) a decent “sifter of information.” And I have to say that it is my (humble) opinion that Jesse is “The Man” when it comes to performance mods for the V. His knowledge appears very extensive and his prices are great (as “haterinc” details in this same thread), but it is clearly a “hobby” for him and not his mainstream money-maker, and I think it is understandable that he is “time-constrained” in responding to problems some mail-order moders may be having (though it’s also understandable why persons would be extremely frustrated when they are trying to get their Vs to run properly or when repeated voice messages go unanswered, which is a clear indicator that Jesse is “over-extended”).

I also really appreciate Jesse’s honesty and extreme care in not making claims for mods that empirical evidence would indicate cannot be backed up – e.g., his (and other shop’s) CAI systems will not garner more than 5 h.p. or so, unless one is really doing extensive power mods; the exhaust manifolds on the V are well-designed, so adding headers is not likely to gain you much h.p.; and be cautious in how the dyno is set up so that mods don’t look better than they really are (such as reporting h.p. for a mod at greater than the stock redline of 6200 rpm, given that even the stock V will also make more power above 6200 rpm).

I have a pure stock, fully-loaded V with an auto transmission, and I just did my first oil change at 500 miles. My plan is to put another 1,000 miles on the V over the next couple of weeks, and then to drive from Omaha, Nebraska, to Jesse’s shop in Warsaw, Indiana. Assuming Jesse has any interest, I would be very happy to have him video-record his step-by-step mods on my V to report back to forum members. Additionally, I have a good buddy of mine who is a former colleague based on our once being in the same department at Case University in Cleveland. He is a “real car guy.” He owns both an old Porsche and a newer BMW Z4. He motor-crosses extensively and has some track time. (My prior “performance car” experience, sadly, is owning a modified Z-28 Camaro back in my early twenties.) Our current plan is for me to pick him up at his son’s place in Chicago, have him drive my V to Jesse’s place (about 2 ½ hours away), mod the V, and have him drive the V back to Chicago (though this plan is subject to change, depending on some new “grandfather duties” of his). If we can pull off this preliminary plan, I know he would be willing to provide a “before-&-after” report of his (“expert’s”) driving experiences with the V.

I know some forum members are interested in 600 rwhp modifications. But based on my interpretation of some of Jesse’s posts a few months ago, I’m currently inclined to shoot for about 570 to 580 rwhp. Jesse seems to suggest that this 570/580 rwhp level represents a good “sweet spot” for decent reliability and “streetability.” Based on his comments, I have the impression that going above this horsepower level on the V’s stock street tires will just be a “waste” below, say, 100 mph or so, given (as I understand it) that the V’s traction control will simple restrict using the excess power (i.e., the extra power would otherwise just create "wheel-spin"). But if I’m wrong about this very tentative interpretation of forum comments, please let me know.

Though certainly subject to change based on Jesse’s (or other forum members’) more specific feedback, my current plan is to do a CAI, 160 T-stat, 90mm TB, crank pulley, isolator dampner coupler upgrade, heat exchanger upgrade, and Wait4me exhaust with stock mufflers (or possibly Corsas). Given the reported “excessive cost” and the potentially permanent delay of the dealer-installed differential cooler for the V, I’d also like to consider installing the Tilton differential cooler that Jesse has mentioned in earlier posts as a possible alternative to the GM-based cooler – especially given the evidence that the V’s differential is potentially the “weakest link” in its engine and drivetrain. I might also install electric cut-outs (to possibly “mimic” the bypass systems on other performance sports sedans, consistent with the “dual-mode” luxury/performance characteristics of the V) -- though I’d like to create a thread-specific post on this latter exhaust option to obtain forum feedback.

So, Jesse, would the above “video-recording” of your own shop’s installation of your Wait4me mods to my V have any interest for you?

Kyle

TAGZO
07-28-09, 02:17 PM
CadV,

this is the part of tune for the suppercharger by HP tuner. check and see if your values are same. or you can send me your file :)