My opinion is that Cadillac should absolutely, definitely move into BMW 1-Series territory. Mercedes has one coming along. So does Lexus... Cars are getting smaller and smaller and plenty of people are going to want a small car that's simultaneously luxurious. Why must a compact car be uncomfortable? The 135i is a very comfortable and extremely sporty car. It's fast and it's actually kinda roomy inside. Mainly it's rear seat passenger room that's not as comfortable as a 3-Series. But as cars become smaller and smaller - and more like personal driving devices rather than mass people movers, these types of cars are going to become very, very important.

Not only that, they're inexpensive.. Cadillac cannot ignore this segment. My prediction, however, is that they WILL until EVERYBODY ELSE has one...

What do you think?

I think you've been smoking crack. These cars are inexpensive? And if these cars are so important, why do their sales lag so far behind the amounts of their larger A4 and 3 series siblings?

People don't want these cars as a whole. The buying public may want to downsize their SUVs but if they are going to go small, they're going economical. Like Corollas and Kias and Focuses...

The 135i is pretty expensive for what it is.. I cant see any reason to get one other than the 300 horse twin turbo.
Oh wait I already have 300 horses, and I didnt need 2 turbos to make it....

People shopping Cadillac are either going for the Deville style or the smaller sportier CTS style. I dont know if there is a market for a smaller one than that. The A3 doesnt sell well and the CTS is already coming out with a wagon.

The 1-Series BMW (128i) starts at $29,400.. But BMWs always cost more than practically everything else. What would a comparable Cadillac start at? $23,000? That's not so outrageous. Is it? These cars haven't been around long enough to assume nobody wants them. Around here in South Florida, I see A LOT of young people driving the 1-Series..

Most people don't know about these cars yet.. Everybody knows of the 3-Series.. Give it time.. Maybe I'm completely wrong. We'll see. But as BMW, Mercedes and Lexus bring these cars into the spotlight, it's going to be a mistake for Cadillac to jump on board late as always...

Cadillac needs to take care of their main customer base first. The only reason the smaller BMWs and Audis are there is that the former entry level cars have gotten so big they are cluttering European streets and parking lots. The Cimmarron was a failure not just because it was a POS, but because it was a small POS.

There was some talk about bringing the 'BTS' over from Europe; it never happened for one reason or another. With the new CAFE standards, maybe this or another entry level Cadillac will be considered.

Hmmmm. Well. I'd guess that 90% of Americans are not in the "luxury car" segment. The Big 3 has had a focus on SUVs and trucks for a good reason...that's what Americans have bought for the past couple of decades. In the Houston area as with much of Texas, you will find pickup trucks nearly 1-to-1 with cars on the road. Personally, I think GM and the others should be focusing on making those vehicles more energy-efficient, because when it comes right down to it, another small luxury mobile isn't going to make a ripple on the pond.

There was some talk about bringing the 'BTS' over from Europe; it never happened for one reason or another. With the new CAFE standards, maybe this or another entry level Cadillac will be considered.

A new entry level to compete with the 3-Series is in the works...

Hmmmm. Well. I'd guess that 90% of Americans are not in the "luxury car" segment. The Big 3 has had a focus on SUVs and trucks for a good reason...that's what Americans have bought for the past couple of decades. In the Houston area as with much of Texas, you will find pickup trucks nearly 1-to-1 with cars on the road. Personally, I think GM and the others should be focusing on making those vehicles more energy-efficient, because when it comes right down to it, another small luxury mobile isn't going to make a ripple on the pond.

Good point.. Maybe Cadillac doesn't need a 1-Series afterall...

The A3 has been around since 06 Im pretty sure. And the Cim was just a cavalier, which is possibly the cheapest looking car ever.

The A3 has been around since 06 Im pretty sure. And the Cim was just a cavalier, which is possibly the cheapest looking car ever.
It's been around since 1996 but it came to America just this year...

It's been around since 1996 but it came to America just this year...

The 5 door A3 has been here since 06, I think youre talking about the 2 door or the convertible?

The Cadillac BLS has been an awful seller over here, even worse than the other Cadillacs.

The diesel listed at about £21k new and were being sold off at £14.5k fully loaded to try and get rid of them.


The BMW 1 series is a considered a joke by most people over here as it's over priced, nastily made and a poor performer.

The joke is that if BMW put a badge on a turd some idiot would buy it.

The 5 door A3 has been here since 06, I think youre talking about the 2 door or the convertible?
Scratch the A3 from my list.. It's not the small car I was thinking compared to the BMW 1-Series...

The problem with producing a small luxury car is that it cost almost as much as producing a larger car. However, the public demands a smaller price for the smaller car. Problem is the only way to reduce the price of the car is to decontent the smaller car in comparison to its' larger luxury stable mate. Then come the complaints "it's not a real Mercedes (or BMW or Cadillac)" as we have seen with Mercedes "C" class, and especially the C Kompressor Sports Coupe. The C Sports Coupe came with all the Mercedes technical goodies (traction control, auto HVAC, power windows , cruise control, ABS, alloy wheels, etc., ect.) for $24,950. but at that price it lacked leather upholstery, automatic trans, power seats (it had manually 8 way adjustable driver and passenger seats), sunroof, heated seats, etc. Adding these luxury items added another $7000.00 to the price tag. The car was also missing a lot of sound proofing of its' more expensive siblings. Many Mercedes devotees (including a few on this website) screamed bloody murder that the car was not a Mercedes, but a "cheap piece of junk" inspite of the car delivering all that Mercedes was really about without the frills. The 230 Kompressor Coupe was a major flop in the US. and I am afraid a similar fate will befall other small sized luxury cars in the US. Those that entered the US market as small cars have grown as they have moved beyond there original small niche market. Only small "sports cars" have countered the American (and for that matter worldwide) conclusion that true luxury in cars demands size.

I also have to disagree. People either want a cheap ass econobox or they don't. They won't pay the extra nut for leather etc.

The Cadillac BLS has been an awful seller over here, even worse than the other Cadillacs.



but the sad thing is it's a great car !

I'm sure it is as it's a SAAB underneath and there's nothing really wrong with them.

And I'd prefer the Cadillac as I wouldn't drive a SAAB.
Only 2 things atopped me trading my STS in for one at the cracking 14k price:

1. It had everything bar leather and I won't have a cadillac without leather.

2. It bothered me it wasn't a real Cadillac as it isn't sold in the USA.


But it was the best car available new at 14k. By FAR.

I'm sure it is as it's a SAAB underneath and there's nothing really wrong with them.

And I'd prefer the Cadillac as I wouldn't drive a SAAB.
Only 2 things atopped me trading my STS in for one at the cracking 14k price:

1. It had everything bar leather and I won't have a cadillac without leather.

2. It bothered me it wasn't a real Cadillac as it isn't sold in the USA.


But it was the best car available new at 14k. By FAR.

What does the exchange rate make 14,000lbs in US dollars?



Cadillac does not need a smaller entry level car for the North American market. The 1 series, A3, 318tii, C230 coupe have all been sales disasters.

Mark my word, if GM builds a car to undercut the CTS, they'll **** it up royally by putting it on the Epislon platform(Malibu, Aura, etc) and make it FWD or maybe AWD. It'll be an overweight pig that drives like an overweight pig. People will claim its a pimped out Malibu, it'll be the Cimmaron debacle all over again.

Sorry, but I have to agree with the others in that it's a bad idea, even compared to GM's other bad ideas.

I personally like the idea of a premium compact car, but it's tricky for GM to pull one off successfully, because consumers don't easily associate GM brands (besides Saab, if you count former GM brands) with "premium compact". Saturn had a chance with the Astra, but ruined it by having to price it above its VW competitors while giving it an underpowered motor.

Right now, GM's best shot at the segment is to let Buick have a go at it. If GM wants to keep Buick from becoming redundant, they need to focus it on competing with 'tweener marques like Acura, Volvo, and VW, leaving Cadillac to play against the top-tier brands like Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus. GM's folly is thinking that everyone needs to be able to buy a Cadillac. What they need to think is that everyone should aspire to own a Cadillac. Our brand should be what Mercedes represents among German automakers and what Lexus represents among Japanese brands. The cheapest models those brands sell here are the C300 and IS250, which happen to be priced right alongside the base CTS. The reason BMW and Audi are able to sell 128's and A3's are because those automakers have more of a reputation for selling small, sporty vehicles. Cadillac does not have such a reputation. If I were head of the Buick and Cadillac brands, here's what the lineup would look like:

Buick
small C-segment car to compete against Audi A3, Volvo S40, Acura TSX
midsize Lacrosse to compete against Lexus ES, Lincoln Fusion, Acura TL, VW CC
larger Zeta sedan (the one they already sell in China, let's call ours the Electra) to compete against Hyundai Genesis, Volvo S80, Acura RL
Enclave crossover

Cadillac
CTS - priced against C-Class/3-Series/etc.
STS - make this one an up-sized, swoopy 4-door "coupe" with frameless (maybe even pillarless) doors with sharp, edgy Cadillac styling to make it stand out against Lexus GS, Mercedes E-Class, BMW 5-Series
DTS - keep this a more formal full-size sedan for the more traditional buyer, but build it on the LWB Zeta or stretched Sigma chassis to position it in between the E-segment cars and Lexus LS460.
SRX crossover - vs. Lexus RX, etc.
Escalade SUV - vs. Range Rover, Lexus Land Cruiser, etc.

What does the exchange rate make 14,000lbs in US dollars?



Cadillac does not need a smaller entry level car for the North American market. The 1 series, A3, 318tii, C230 coupe have all been sales disasters.

Mark my word, if GM builds a car to undercut the CTS, they'll **** it up royally by putting it on the Epislon platform(Malibu, Aura, etc) and make it FWD or maybe AWD. It'll be an overweight pig that drives like an overweight pig. People will claim its a pimped out Malibu, it'll be the Cimmaron debacle all over again.


Currently £14,000 is about $22,000.
At the time it was about $28,000

But the list (and fair price) of the car was £22,000 or so iirc, which at the time was $44,000

Bear in mind however that the CTS 3.6DI costs about £30,000, which is about $45,000 today, or $60,000 18 months ago when the exchange rate was better...

The 135 is ugly and all the people who buy them are guidos and queers.

Thank you, Jesda, for your insightful and thought provoking comments!

It had everything bar leather and I won't have a cadillac without leather.



only the SE (base model) didn't have leather !

the leather seats in mine are luvly !

Cadillac does not need a bmw 1 series fighter. best thing BMW ever did was stuff that 3 liter twin turbo engine in there. Who needs a stinking M3. But who knows GM has been making all sorts of cars nobody needs like the station wagon CTS.

only the SE (base model) didn't have leather !

the leather seats in mine are luvly !

Yes but the cars my dealer had on offer brand new for 14k did not have leather. None of them.
To get it meant buying a normal (non offer) car which ended up as thousands of pounds more and not worthwhile.

But who knows GM has been making all sorts of cars nobody needs like the station wagon CTS.

Thank you. I really don't care for the CTS wagon, as I think it's useless and ruins the sedan's sharp lines and striking proportions. I think GM is stupid for green-lighting this instead of a convertible (hey, I should add that to my "fantasy lineup"!)

I don't see the need for Cadillac to go smaller and further downmarket. If they try, they'll end up overlapping Buick and Chevy in that price range.

Thank you. I really don't care for the CTS wagon, as I think it's useless and ruins the sedan's sharp lines and striking proportions. I think GM is stupid for green-lighting this instead of a convertible (hey, I should add that to my "fantasy lineup"!)
wagons are a big sell in Europe and there are many Americans who have debunked SUVs for almost 2 decades in favor of most of the space but keeping the sport in a wagon. The wagon may not make a huge dent in sales numbers but it's a nice option.

Wagons offer the space of an SUV while being faster, better handling, and more fuel efficient. I wish they were more popular here.

The CTS wagon may well appeal to performance minded wagon buyers. My son, the other day, was telling me that he thought his next car would be a 5 series wagon. He is one of these guys that gets all his info from the car magazines, and is sort of interested in finding out more about the CTS (wouldn't even look at one two and half years ago when he bought the BMW 3 series) perhaps the new CTS wagon would be to his liking.

The only wagon I would ever consider would be Volvos.

The only wagon I would ever consider would be Volvos.

Same here, for the most part. Volvo is the first place I'd look if I were shopping wagons.

As for the CTS, I don't think the style of the car lends itself well to be a wagon. A coupe? yes. a convertible? hell yes! a 4-door fastback? hell, why not... a wagon? ehh...

Same here, for the most part. Volvo is the first place I'd look if I were shopping wagons.

As for the CTS, I don't think the style of the car lends itself well to be a wagon. A coupe? yes. a convertible? hell yes! a 4-door fastback? hell, why not... a wagon? ehh...

Can you have a 4 door fastback?

Can you have a 4 door fastback?
My '81 Citation was a 4 door fastback...

...although there was nothing terribly fast about it...

Can you have a 4 door fastback?

http://bilder.autobild.de/ir_img/66825974_6d91f9b6a2.jpg

http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent00J/Aston%20Martin%20Rapide.jpg

Sadly, most others are not nearly as well executed. But I have faith that Caddy can make quite a gorgeous one

...although there was nothing terribly fast about it...


Never considered getting one of these?
http://thebaron.110mb.com/mycitations/1982/04-14-2004/P1010009.JPG


:alchi:

At first i was on the "no" side of this question but then i got to thinking, could this be a way for GM to save some scratch on the soulstice/Sky chassis there pretty much abandoning? thats a small RWD platform that i'm sure could be tweaked into a small premium coupe. just a thought....

At first i was on the "no" side of this question but then i got to thinking, could this be a way for GM to save some scratch on the soulstice/Sky chassis there pretty much abandoning? thats a small RWD platform that i'm sure could be tweaked into a small premium coupe. just a thought....

IIRC, they're abandoning it because it costs too much to manufacture. I could be wrong. And they'd have to do something about the placement of the fuel tank, because that's just retarded.

Even with these issues addressed, the end product is going to have to be good enough to compete against the newly-redesigned BMW Z4, or at the VERY least, the current Mercedes SLK.

http://bilder.autobild.de/ir_img/66825974_6d91f9b6a2.jpg

http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent00J/Aston%20Martin%20Rapide.jpg

Sadly, most others are not nearly as well executed. But I have faith that Caddy can make quite a gorgeous one

Then there's that Gawdawful Porsche Panamera. While I like the idea of a Porsche executive saloon, I think they should have cut the ties with the 911 a bit more then they did. It would have looked SO much better with a normal trunk, not a hatchback.

Then there's that Gawdawful Porsche Panamera. While I like the idea of a Porsche executive saloon, I think they should have cut the ties with the 911 a bit more then they did. It would have looked SO much better with a normal trunk, not a hatchback.

I totally agree.

http://www.cwwcardesign.com/cars/porsche_panamera.html