Cadillac Sixteen Vs. Maybach Vs. Rolls Royce Vs. Bentley Arnage


Need I really say more!!!

Not only would it be a hit, Cadillac could charge as much for it as they want, 250K ...300K...400K They could sell as many as 2,000 a year worldwide I dare say...Hell, all athletes, rappers, movie stars, world leaders, the superrich....they only have to redoo it every 4 or 5 years and again...can you imagine the Halo effect...!!!

C'mon Cadillac, this is a no brainer....!!!

nobody would be willing to sheel out that kinda cash for Caddy so Cadillac is atleast being smart about it and not wasting time and money on the car. Yeah it was a cool concept, but its not going to happen

People say the market is crowded, but I think the folks in that income bracket are waiting for Cadillac to do create something more bold for the $300k category.

nobody would be willing to sheel out that kinda cash for Caddy so Cadillac is atleast being smart about it and not wasting time and money on the car. Yeah it was a cool concept, but its not going to happen
People are paying $110,000.00 for a Volkswagen... :rolleyes:

It would be a devestating mistake for Cadillac to make any type of car over 125k.......it wont EVER happen....Cadillac is considered a Luxury mark not a Super Luxury mark.......Mercedes tops out at 150k with all options that is why they must put Mclearn on the SLR and Maybach on the 57 and the other......a name can only take you so far........Out of all those cars hands down my choice is the Rolls Royce Phantom......elegant....sporty......and beatiful at the same time.

Cadillac is considered a Luxury mark and not a Super Luxury mark. Sure.. But don't you think they'd Like to become a Super Luxury mark? I'm sure that if the opportunity comes along, they're going to jump on it. The "Sixteen" may very-well be exactly that.. They're not incapable. If with time and money, one can do anything - a large corporation certainly can...

It would be a devestating mistake for Cadillac to make any type of car over 125k.......it wont EVER happen....Cadillac is considered a Luxury mark not a Super Luxury mark.......Mercedes tops out at 150k with all options that is why they must put Mclearn on the SLR and Maybach on the 57 and the other......a name can only take you so far........Out of all those cars hands down my choice is the Rolls Royce Phantom......elegant....sporty......and beatiful at the same time.



Actually, historically speaking, Cadillac was THE SUPER LUXURY mark. Check out the original Cadillac Sixteens of the thirties and forties. Cadillac would really only be going back to its roots. As far as people buying it, hell, just here in the US they could sell a thousand to athletes and rappers!!! THE ULTIMATE IN BLING BLING!!! :D

Right. If millionaires are buying Cadillac Escalades - they're going to buy $250,000 Sixteens - or whatever...

Actually, historically speaking, Cadillac was THE SUPER LUXURY mark. Check out the original Cadillac Sixteens of the thirties and forties. Cadillac would really only be going back to its roots. As far as people buying it, hell, just here in the US they could sell a thousand to athletes and rappers!!! THE ULTIMATE IN BLING BLING!!! :D

Cadillac has never been THE super luxury mark.
It could become one, but I don't thing THE.

Cadillac has never been THE super luxury mark.
It could become one, but I don't thing THE.


Actually Cadillac was considered THE premier automobile worldwide, the Cadillac 12 and 16 cylinder models where considered the pinnacle of the auto world. Rolls Royce was considered slightly downmarket, I suppose the same relationship it now has with, say MB. The 16 cylinder Cadillac was THE MOST EXPENSIVE CAR IN THE WORLD back in the thirties.

People are paying $110,000.00 for a Volkswagen... :rolleyes:
true, but sales arent doing well.

I didn't say anything about cadillac's achievements, or it's status as a whole car.
I said super luxury.
Being the most expensive does not make it the most luxurious (maybe the most "bling - bling" ).

I didn't say anything about cadillac's achievements, or it's status as a whole car.
I said super luxury.
Being the most expensive does not make it the most luxurious (maybe the most "bling - bling" ).

Super lux brands of the time: Hispano Suiza, Dussenberg, Bugatti, Rolls Royce, Bentley, however Cadillac towered above them all!!!! :D

Remember, it wasnt untill the sixties and seventies that GM decided to make Cadillac a luxury brand for the masses, before you could actually have a Caddy bespoke, just like a Rolls Royce or Bentley now.

Taken from the Cadillac history section of the Cadillac La Salle club website:

"The V16 (series 452 and 452-A) is one of the most desirable Caddies today for a number of reasons, but most of all because of the shape, style, and obvious quality. Although full-custom bodies were built by Fleetwood, Murphy, Waterhoulse, Saoutchik, VandenPlas, Pinin Farina, Pininfarina, and others; most were "catalog customs" by Fleetwood. A few cars had Fisher bodies. Only about one fifth were open or convertible. Two-thirds were five or seven passenger sedans or Imperials. The rest were Coupes or Town Cars.

More than 50 body styles were offered, but the list consists of only a few basic shells with several variations each: metal or leather quarters, with or without quarter windows, fixed or collapsible (Landau) quarters, with or without Imperial division, straight or coach sill, plain or recessed hood/cowl, etc.

With few exceptions, the "41" styles had plain hood and straight sill, the "42" styles had plain hood and coach sill, and the "43" styles had recessed hood/cowl and straight sill.

Although a token number (approximately one percent) of the V-16 chassis were sold to domestic and foreign coachbuilders, all body styles advertised by Cadillac were "Catalog Customs" by Fleetwood. The customer was able to order limited variations in the "Catalog Customs" or order a full-custom creation.
It is remarkable that Fleetwood was able to turn out four to five hundred bodies per month at a time when activities at the Pennsylvania shop were being phased out and "production" at a new location in Detroit was being set up.
Through the Fall of 1930, dealers were required to furnish the factory with weekly and monthly owner reaction and service reports on each V-16 delivered."

very interesting. thanks.

As it is Cadillac is having a hard enough time selling cars as it is. I believe the last time i saw the Escalade's were selling more then any of the cars were. And yeah thats fine and dandy that VW is selling the Phaeton V12 for over $100k and thats why you don't see any of them on the road. Unfortunatly Cadillac doesn't have their money to play around like that and see if its a hit or not. If they were to make the Sixteen do you know how much money they would have to devote to it especially the engine? It would take hundreds of millions if not more to just be able to make the car and what you might sell a handful just so you can "try" to be in the super lux catagory? Its just not going to happen. Leave the super lux cars to the big boys, Cadillac can stick to selling luxury cars for the people in the bottom 98% of the automotive world and to not worry about the top 2% of people who can actually afford them. Aston Martin, Maybach, Buggati, Rolls Royce, and then Cadillac? Sorry just doesn't fit into their world in anyway, shape, or form

As it is Cadillac is having a hard enough time selling cars as it is. I believe the last time i saw the Escalade's were selling more then any of the cars were. And yeah thats fine and dandy that VW is selling the Phaeton V12 for over $100k and thats why you don't see any of them on the road. Unfortunatly Cadillac doesn't have their money to play around like that and see if its a hit or not. If they were to make the Sixteen do you know how much money they would have to devote to it especially the engine? It would take hundreds of millions if not more to just be able to make the car and what you might sell a handful just so you can "try" to be in the super lux catagory? Its just not going to happen. Leave the super lux cars to the big boys, Cadillac can stick to selling luxury cars for the people in the bottom 98% of the automotive world and to not worry about the top 2% of people who can actually afford them. Aston Martin, Maybach, Buggati, Rolls Royce, and then Cadillac? Sorry just doesn't fit into their world in anyway, shape, or form


They've got the money, and I doubt it would take houndreds of millions, remember, you don't need a new plant for this, just use existing parts and do a low production run. The same arguments were used against the Viper at Chrysler which was way worse off than GM is now.

VW has made a big blunder by trying to go upmarket, they have Audi, Bentley and Bugatti for that. (Frankly this has been the subject of hot debate at the VW Forums) GM on the other hand has Cadillac, they've tried in the seventies and eighties to water it down with much sucess sales wise, but at the cost of killing the brand image. Now it's the time to build it back up.

Nobody thought there'd be 400 horsepower Cadillacs 5 years ago.. Let's see where Cadillac is 5 years from now... If Ford can sell a car for $150,000.00 and Volkswagen can sell a car for $110,000.00, Cadillac can move upscale...

Nobody thought there'd be 400 horsepower Cadillacs 5 years ago.. Let's see where Cadillac is 5 years from now... If Ford can sell a car for $150,000.00 and Volkswagen can sell a car for $110,000.00, Cadillac can move upscale...

True....as long as they can prove (as ford has) then they have a good car.....but anyone can make a sports car....a Super Luxo car is harder to do....maybe not make but to actually have a NAME PLATE that can actually mean something to the customers.......If they had a new name plate called La Salle or Sixteen or something like that (ala Maybach) then it is doable...but to tag a $250,000 car a Cadillac.....I have a hard time seeing and believing it....I would love it but still cant believe it would ever happen.

Sure you see alot of music artists and celebs driving Escalades and what not....but believe it or not they are only a small percentage of the people who buy these Ultra Lux cars.....the rest are people who usually arnent so speedy to throw their money at anything at all.

They've got the money, and I doubt it would take houndreds of millions, remember, you don't need a new plant for this, just use existing parts and do a low production run. The same arguments were used against the Viper at Chrysler which was way worse off than GM is now.Thats the main reason Cadillac shouldn't even bother. If your going to sell a car thats over $200k the last thing I want is parts from lesser cars. I want every part on that damn car to be worth that price tag. Like I said before Caddy should stick to cars that are more along the lines of where they are now and not try and go after Bugatti, and Rolls Royce. Because they will get spanked just like they did when the tried out those Cadillac LMP cars in Le Mans by the people who have been there forever and no what they are doing and not to just take a stab at it

Thats the main reason Cadillac shouldn't even bother. If your going to sell a car thats over $200k the last thing I want is parts from lesser cars. I want every part on that damn car to be worth that price tag. Like I said before Caddy should stick to cars that are more along the lines of where they are now and not try and go after Bugatti, and Rolls Royce. Because they will get spanked just like they did when the tried out those Cadillac LMP cars in Le Mans by the people who have been there forever and no what they are doing and not to just take a stab at it


Seriously!!! Do you think a car like this exists?

Maybach = MB parts bin with some unique touches.

Rolls Royce = BMW parts bin with some unique pieces

Bentley = VW parts bin with some unique touches(in their last road test Car and Driver even identified the control pod for AC as the one in the Phaeton)

Granted the Le Mans was a pitifull effort that blew up in their faces, yet, I would still hope Cadillac would go in as an engine supplier to F1, pherhaps McLaren or Jordan....But I digress...

Cadillac should move upmarket, not down....let Buick be luxury for the masses.

It's unfair to compare Cadillac, MB, and BMW to Maybach and Rolls Royce. A typical successfull American could walk into any Cadillac, MB, and BMW dealer and not look out of place if they only have say 10k to put down on a car.

You bring 10k to a Maybach or Rolls Royce dealership and they are going to laugh you out the door!

Maybach (even though it's owned and built by DCX) and Rolls Royce (even though it's owned and has some design influences by BMW) are still unique marques that go along the lines of "if you have to ask how much they cost, you can't afford one".

No, I don't think Cadillac should even set long term goals to try to enter the super luxury market. Besides, how would it look if you were in the market for a 250k ultra luxury beast and in the showroom there's a "meager" CTS that costs 1/6th of what you are looking for and can afford?

Maybach (even though it's owned and built by DCX)Its owned and built by Benz. DCX only merged with them, and DCX has no say whatsoever in the Maybach's

It's unfair to compare Cadillac, MB, and BMW to Maybach and Rolls Royce. A typical successfull American could walk into any Cadillac, MB, and BMW dealer and not look out of place if they only have say 10k to put down on a car.

You bring 10k to a Maybach or Rolls Royce dealership and they are going to laugh you out the door!

Maybach (even though it's owned and built by DCX) and Rolls Royce (even though it's owned and has some design influences by BMW) are still unique marques that go along the lines of "if you have to ask how much they cost, you can't afford one".

No, I don't think Cadillac should even set long term goals to try to enter the super luxury market. Besides, how would it look if you were in the market for a 250k ultra luxury beast and in the showroom there's a "meager" CTS that costs 1/6th of what you are looking for and can afford?

Chief , I invite you to go to the Maybach website, look up their dealers,

1. They are all dedicated MB dealers, with 1 demo car, all cars sold are special ordered.

2. Doesnt seem to bother them that their dealerships have lowly 240 Kompressors in them??

Oh, and check out Foley Bentley, Cadillac, Rolls Royce in Northbrook IL, doesn't bother them to have a CTS next to a Bentley or a Rolls Royce!!!

Oh, and check out Foley Bentley, Cadillac, Rolls Royce in Northbrook IL, doesn't bother them to have a CTS next to a Bentley or a Rolls Royce!!!Its all about sales. Yeah you might sell a few Bentley's here and there and a few Royce's but Cadillac's sell a lot more then those two do. So toss Caddy in there and have the owner making even more money.

Its owned and built by Benz. DCX only merged with them, and DCX has no say whatsoever in the Maybach's


Taken from The Car Connection:

"DaimlerChrysler's new Maybach marque..."

im probably too late to join in the fun here, but i would like cadillac to stay in the "affordable" range, if there is such a thing. sure, we all want the sixteen (i know i do) but i dont think that many people are willing to shell out a quarter of a million to get one. and even if they make them, and get to the used market, it would still be out of reach for even the upper class buyer.
hmm...time for good idea/bad idea:
GOOD IDEA: make the sixteen model and name it the DTS with DTS prices,
BAD IDEA: make the sixteen so that no one can afford one, and piss a lot of cadillac enthusiasts off because we can NEVER afford one.
just my .02

Its owned and built by Benz. DCX only merged with them, and DCX has no say whatsoever in the Maybach's


On the NYSE, it's listed as DCX. You don't buy stock in Mercedes or Chrysler, you buy stock in DCX. The complete name of the parrent company is DaimlerChrysler AG.

Daimler-Benz, which was the parrent company of Mercedes Benz, merged with Chrysler Corporation to form the conglomerate.

im probably too late to join in the fun here, but i would like cadillac to stay in the "affordable" range, if there is such a thing. sure, we all want the sixteen (i know i do) but i dont think that many people are willing to shell out a quarter of a million to get one. and even if they make them, and get to the used market, it would still be out of reach for even the upper class buyer.
hmm...time for good idea/bad idea:
GOOD IDEA: make the sixteen model and name it the DTS with DTS prices,
BAD IDEA: make the sixteen so that no one can afford one, and piss a lot of cadillac enthusiasts off because we can NEVER afford one.
just my .02



Please!!! I dont see many PO'd Mercedes customers because they will never be able to afford a Maybach!!!

If most of middle American cant buy a Sixteen, SO BE IT!!! part of Cadillac's problem over the last 30 years has been the De-mistification of the brand. New Cadillacs in every project! and people still talk about DEPRECIATION!!

Cadillac is supposed to be GM's top of the line, if you can't afford it SO BE IT!!!

Please!!! I dont see many PO'd Mercedes customers because they will never be able to afford a Maybach!!!

If most of middle American cant buy a Sixteen, SO BE IT!!! part of Cadillac's problem over the last 30 years has been the De-mistification of the brand. New Cadillacs in every project! and people still talk about DEPRECIATION!!

Cadillac is supposed to be GM's top of the line, if you can't afford it SO BE IT!!!Well Cadillac compared to Benz is stupid in itself. When they have cars ranging in price from $20k range all the way up to the $400K+ range. So if a Benz owner can't afford a Maybach then he'll get a SL55 AMG or something in the $100k range. But with Caddy you would have a $250k+ Sixteen and then drop all the way down to a XLR. Benz has cars for pretty much anybody pocket book. While Caddy has their cars in the range of the person who's well off but not Rolls Royce, Bentley well off

GM and Cadillac could do it. As the Cadillac Sixteen. If the interior and build quality were as good as a Maybach or Rolls, a giant v16 would really put the car ahead. It could take alot of sales from the other superlux cars. No one would see a Sixteen and think "Thats only a lowly Cadillac," they'd see a Sixteen and think "Wow, that's a Cadillac Sixteen."

It's the same thing as the Ford GT40, people aren't gonna think it's a lame ass ford, they'll see it as something completely differant from a focus. Same with the sixteen, people will see it as something completely differant from a DeVille.

GM and Cadillac could do it. As the Cadillac Sixteen. If the interior and build quality were as good as a Maybach or Rolls, a giant v16 would really put the car ahead. It could take alot of sales from the other superlux cars. No one would see a Sixteen and think "Thats only a lowly Cadillac," they'd see a Sixteen and think "Wow, that's a Cadillac Sixteen."

It's the same thing as the Ford GT40, people aren't gonna think it's a lame ass ford, they'll see it as something completely differant from a focus. Same with the sixteen, people will see it as something completely differant from a DeVille.
Agreed.. And it's not like Cadillac would be looking to sell 100,000 of them. It'll be a very exclusive automobile like the Volkswagen Phaeton...

Problem with the parts sharing is that BMW,Benz,VW all have HIGH END stuff already....im talking 75-130k stuff not 40-60k stuff like Cadillac. Cadillac would have to get into the 75-100k market and stay there for at least 5 yrs before anyone should even think of getting into a 200k Super Ultra Luxury category.

The journalists and buying public would not buy this for a second and GM knows this....they are that old to be experienced.

truth be told, i guess caddy should have thier exclusive cars, but i want one too :rant2: oh well, one day, i will have a sweet sixteen party :cool:

Oh well in the end no matter how much we bitch and moan its not going to happen. And even if it did I highly doubt any of us could afford it so why are we arguing on a car that will never be made and even it was made a car that 0% of us could get

Oh well in the end no matter how much we bitch and moan its not going to happen. And even if it did I highly doubt any of us could afford it so why are we arguing on a car that will never be made and even it was made a car that 0% of us could get


Because were DREAMERS!!!

Because were DREAMERS!!!Well then I hope Cadillac makes a faster CTS-V with 1000 hp and when you hit a button wings and afterburners pop out and you can fly away and I want all of this for under $40k

something will happen GM has built a speical facility to proudce very speical high end engines , first 2 projects ive heard are for a corvette based sportscar called bluedevil the other a 12 cylander engine that is currently resideing in a couple of escalade mules ...the question is if it will only reside int he next generation escalade or if it will indeed be placed in a car to go head ot head with the vest , then under what brand ? or will be it be a new brand ? If t will be under a new brand the name will likely come from one of the coach builders that did the original 16

im gonna go find the links to post up now ....

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02493772

something will happen GM has built a speical facility to proudce very speical high end engines , first 2 projects ive heard are for a corvette based sportscar called bluedevil the other a 12 cylander engine that is currently resideing in a couple of escalade mules ...the question is if it will only reside int he next generation escalade or if it will indeed be placed in a car to go head ot head with the vest , then under what brand ? or will be it be a new brand ? If t will be under a new brand the name will likely come from one of the coach builders that did the original 16

im gonna go find the links to post up now ....

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02493772


Hmmm.....YES!!!

Oh well in the end no matter how much we bitch and moan its not going to happen. And even if it did I highly doubt any of us could afford it so why are we arguing on a car that will never be made and even it was made a car that 0% of us could get


count me out of that one, if they make one, i will have it, i ain't going to law school for nothing :D .

I think if GM enters the ultra-high end market, it will take a while for people to warm up to it. People up untill now associate the prestige of owning a vehicle not many can afford with the nameplates of BMW, MB, and Maybach. I think GM could feasably do it, but how would public perception be of it? It was only recently that the Germans entered the low tier price range of cars, and I don't think that would hurt their image as much as it is difficult to upgrade your image...... see the difference? It was only in the last few years that Mercedes offered a car that people in their early 20's could afford. While GM has been making cars a 16 year old could afford for decades. I think GM is doing a good job of upgrading their perception as a mass producer of standard passenger cars, but untill the public accepts that completely they are on the same level of Germany, I think it would be foolish for them to just enter the ultra market just because they can.

Why a V12 for only a Escalade.....if it was only for an Escalade Id think they would just supercharge the current engine.

i think that a v-12 would be a nice thing for the escalade. after all, dodge has the SRT-10 ram, ford has the supercharged lightning, and chevy has the good'ol SS silverado. the 12 cylinder engine would definitly be unique to the market of SUV's and trucks too. and it would be god awful fast too :lildevil: .

i think that a v-12 would be a nice thing for the escalade. after all, dodge has the SRT-10 ram, ford has the supercharged lightning, and chevy has the good'ol SS silverado. the 12 cylinder engine would definitly be unique to the market of SUV's and trucks too. and it would be god awful fast too :lildevil: .

True...Uniqueness is something special...but I cant see a V12 SUV that already sucks with gas mileage being livable.......not money wise but wouldnt the epa and all those governing agencys be on GM's back for this.

I really thought this was a very interesting article about Lexus entering that very same Super Luxury market.....goes right with this topic. Even Lexus feels that it is too soon to enter a Maybach type car for them......It would be even too sooner for Caddy in my opinion.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02193128

first cadillac needs to worry about building a high luxury car to take on the s600, bmw 760iL, Audi A8L, sorry but the new STS and current DTS(as nice as they are) simply wont do. They need to make direct competitiors to the large flagships...THEN cadillac can worry about making an ultra high luxury vehicle, as of right now though, its too early.

first cadillac needs to worry about building a high luxury car to take on the s600, bmw 760iL, Audi A8L, sorry but the new STS and current DTS(as nice as they are) simply wont do. They need to make direct competitiors to the large flagships...THEN cadillac can worry about making an ultra high luxury vehicle, as of right now though, its too early.

Exactly

first cadillac needs to worry about building a high luxury car to take on the s600, bmw 760iL, Audi A8L, sorry but the new STS and current DTS(as nice as they are) simply wont do. They need to make direct competitiors to the large flagships...THEN cadillac can worry about making an ultra high luxury vehicle, as of right now though, its too early.
...can't argue with that...

...can't argue with that...

Ditto, but I still think Cadillac can walk and chew gum at the same time...

CTS
SRX
STS
Escalade
DTS

XLR

CIEN

Sixteen

People are paying $110,000.00 for a Volkswagen... :rolleyes:

I've driven one. 405 hp W12, AWD. Just try to pull your head out of the seat cushion!

SWEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT (drive by wire throttle sucks though).

It was the first Phaeton to hit the US, and we had it for 6+ months.... Nice. For a VW.....

I have been in the Phantom for over 1 hour of driving time. Gets more attention then a firetruck, depending on where you are. Bentley GT is nice and a little more affordable. Maybach, I've only glanced at. Caddy is AMERICAN, so this would be incredible if they went through with that kind of model entry into today's current marketplace. I still pick the phantom, equipped with closing rear doors at the push of a button. WOW.

The sad thing is that if any car company in the world could build a low-production car like the Sixteen, it would be GM. They've got the cash. No, it might not be profitable, but that isn't always a bad thing. Sometimes you need to take hits on good models.

Look at Toyota. The Prius has to be losing a ton of money, but it's helping Toyota's image like mad. GM's efforts at image (new GTO, SSR) are just not on-target with any market. Cars are answering questions that were never asked!

Bruce