: Best Cold Air Intake?



aburd
07-21-09, 09:18 PM
Looking to buy one. Any thoughts from those who have purchased would be appreciated on thier experience/ satisfaction.

Thanks

ab

ramon222003
07-21-09, 09:24 PM
I'm looking to buy one too for my 05 STS. What do you have?

aburd
07-21-09, 09:52 PM
09 ctsv auto bone stock

Gary Wells
07-21-09, 11:48 PM
Not to bogart this thread, but I am very interested in this subject also for an '09 CTS-V, and from what I have read so far on other similar threads involving the same subject, I am leaning towards the stock box with the lower section removed or modified for more airflow & colder air supply.

edsuski
07-22-09, 12:36 AM
Ideally I would like to find a solution that did not increase the noise inside the cabin.

I wonder how it would look to open up the leading edge of the supercharger bulge in the hood to provide a real forced cold air intake? Kind of like the ram air hood of the Pontiac Firehawk - but less over stated.....

. ______. .______
(______) (______)

gravedigger
07-22-09, 01:42 AM
Can anyone post pics of the different intake options they hve installed on there cars? I would think that all the aftermarket CAI's are close in performance so I would like to find the cleanest/best looking one.

Sorry for kinda stealing the thread!

Gotham CTS-V
07-22-09, 09:37 AM
From what I've been told, a full CAI is only really needed when you are approaching higher hp (600rwhp mark). Otherwise, the modified stock air box should do fine.

Razorecko
07-22-09, 10:16 AM
I would either do the new era intake w/ the brake duct removed OR the stock box w/ w4me's mod of cutting the bottom out AND the brake duct mod.

Tuan_CTSV
07-22-09, 10:50 AM
^^^^ New Era for me. IMO.. looks the best and is decently priced.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i164/topendusa/2009%20CTS-V/IMG_4363.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i164/topendusa/2009%20CTS-V/IMG_4362-1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i164/topendusa/2009%20CTS-V/IMG_4359.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i164/topendusa/2009%20CTS-V/IMG_4364.jpg

aburd
07-22-09, 11:10 AM
Any links to new era? And does taking the brake duct out effect cooling to that brake?

wait4me
07-22-09, 11:26 AM
Our partial kit is only $250. Our Full kit with adjustable mass air meter section is only $390 with integrated pvc port in the hump hose. It is wise to have a hump hose on the engine throttlebody at least, as when your motor moves, it allows for movement without moving the intake assembly. On that picture above, the thing that will be moving would be the part down where the air filter is and might cause rubbing thru the filter???

aburd
07-22-09, 12:29 PM
Wait4me. How hp gains are u guys seeing from ur cai. Alone and with ur tune?

Ab

CadV
07-22-09, 03:38 PM
This is what I am using right now.

http://i28.tinypic.com/10idk7l.jpg

To be fair the K&N messed up my MAF so I have no given Jesse kit a fair comparison. I may try and find a paper filter for his 4".

aburd
07-22-09, 03:47 PM
Is that just stock box with bottom cut out?

CadV
07-22-09, 03:51 PM
Is that just stock box with bottom cut out?

Yep. This will be plenty for anyone unless your gonna try and reach 600rwhp.

aburd
07-22-09, 03:53 PM
Na just want cai and tune

jwa999
07-22-09, 04:43 PM
Can we calculate the surface area of both filters?
Get an idea what the actual difference is.

A straight flow through the stock box might result in the same air volume...
What's the length and diameter of the cylindrical filter?

Of course each filter will have a certain flow/in², depending on the folds/material.
But a K&N in the stock box would have similar flow/in² than k&n in cilider..

Too me it looks like the modded stock box might be better at sucking air in from the bottom when you remove the brake duct.
Also I was thinking you could cut a hole at the top of the brake duct so you'd get cold air going to both filter compartment and still some flow to the brakes.

Hans.

Dr. Design
07-22-09, 04:43 PM
Hello,
D3 Research & Design will be releasing a high quality cold air intake system with integrated heat shield. The scheduled launch date for this product will be about 4 weeks. More information to follow....

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

Razorecko
07-22-09, 04:57 PM
Hello,
D3 Research & Design will be releasing a high quality cold air intake system with integrated heat shield. The scheduled launch date for this product will be about 4 weeks. More information to follow....

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

whats up with those springs ?

wait4me
07-22-09, 07:23 PM
We also tried the 4inch kit with making the airflow completely sealed off and it just didnt make ANY difference on anything to have it closed off or not. So i decided to leave out the 20 dollars extra it would have cost to make the integrated heat sheild part. If people REALLY wanted them, i suppose i could put in in on our kit, but the price would go up to $420. The powder coating is kinda steep on the kind im using that is chemical resistant.

Luna.
07-22-09, 07:30 PM
I wonder how it would look to open up the leading edge of the supercharger bulge in the hood to provide a real forced cold air intake? Kind of like the ram air hood of the Pontiac Firehawk - but less over stated.....


A forced cold-air intake, like ram-air? On a car with a supercharger??? That seems strange... :hmm:


Does anyone know much about how the Hennessey unit stacks up against the competition? Anyone running this unit?

http://www.hennesseyperformancestore.com/hpecoairin.html

aburd
07-22-09, 08:08 PM
Web site says 18 hp pickup just from cai.

Dr. Design
07-22-09, 08:41 PM
:) We are working on them. The prototypes should be complete in a few weeks and we hopefully will be doing some testing shortly thereafter. We want to make sure that we dial in the springs rates perfectly for the 09 CTSV without disrupting the vehicles balance.

As for the intake we will have HP/TQ gains very soon. We think people will like a solid quality performance intake with an integrated design. We know its just an intake, but we wanted to make sure it was the highest quality possible.

Thanks,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


whats up with those springs ?

jwa999
07-22-09, 11:08 PM
Did a *very* rough estimate of the surface area of both filters.

stock filter: (11.5 x 9.75 around) inside area: around 65 sq inch.

Cylindrical filter: from the pictures, I estimate 6 inches diameter x 11 in length: 207 sq in.

3 times more air!

CadV
07-22-09, 11:31 PM
Did a *very* rough estimate of the surface area of both filters.

stock filter: (11.5 x 9.75 around) inside area: around 65 sq inch.

Cylindrical filter: from the pictures, I estimate 6 inches diameter x 11 in length: 207 sq in.

3 times more air!

Cool fact!

With a filter resting half way in the hole surface area will be reduced because of the headlight assembly etc. New era drops all the way down in the hole so that one is good for the 207 sq in. It scares me to have a filter all the way down there though because of rain etc.

jwa999
07-23-09, 12:02 AM
Use a drycharger to protect the filter:

http://www.knfilters.com/search/wrap.aspx

With the brake duct in place there's not a lot of entry points for water.

I'm thinking cut the brake duct in half, keep the front part connected to the front. Cut the back part so it protects the top part of the compartment and let water out of the duct at the bottom. Make a 45 degree cut with the lower part open.
Something to allow air from the front brake duct intake into the compartment
but still protect it from water splashing all over.

aburd
07-23-09, 10:15 AM
I'm still confused on which one is considered best

Titaniumseeker
07-23-09, 10:45 AM
Hello,
D3 Research & Design will be releasing a high quality cold air intake system with integrated heat shield. The scheduled launch date for this product will be about 4 weeks. More information to follow....

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


I doubt very much that it will be ready in 4 weeks. I have been hearing this same story line since early May. D3, if you guys are still working on the product then fine. We all realize that development of a product takes time. I would much rather receive an official release date from you guys than the same line, "The scheduled launch date for this product will be about 4 weeks."

CadV
07-23-09, 11:29 AM
I'm still confused on which one is considered best

If your planning for only a tune and airbox modding your stock box will be best.

aburd
07-23-09, 11:55 AM
Do I need to change the filter if I do the stock box mod

CadV
07-23-09, 12:12 PM
Do I need to change the filter if I do the stock box mod


With a tune only modding the stock box will give you the same gains as a 4" intake. Dynoes have proved this. wait4me dynoed the modded stock box with the stock filter and k&n and saw no difference.

aburd
07-23-09, 12:47 PM
So no need to buy k&n. Cool

Luna.
07-23-09, 04:57 PM
I'm still confused on which one is considered best

LOL. Agree.

I'm not sure the information is truly out there yet, as, in my mind, you need dyno runs to make suggestions as to which might be better than another. And it's just too early to tell

aburd
07-23-09, 05:11 PM
Thank you. Henessy is claiming pretty impressive numbers with his cai vs w4me's 5hp gain (from what i've gathered it's comparable to stock air box mod)

ab

CadV
07-23-09, 06:05 PM
Anyone claiming big numbers is full of it I promise you. The big numbers will play in on a good tune and you will get that regardless. Chopped stock box will get you roughly 15rwhp with a tune.

aburd
07-23-09, 07:27 PM
What should the two together get u. Or is that 15rwhp for both?

CadV
07-23-09, 08:03 PM
Ive seen reports of the tune getting 30-50 but have no idea if that is including intake.

kck
07-23-09, 10:27 PM
Our partial kit is only $250. Our Full kit with adjustable mass air meter section is only $390 with integrated pvc port in the hump hose. It is wise to have a hump hose on the engine throttlebody at least, as when your motor moves, it allows for movement without moving the intake assembly. On that picture above, the thing that will be moving would be the part down where the air filter is and might cause rubbing thru the filter???

Thanks, Jess, for providing feedback on this CAI thread. Given your incomparable experience with performance modifications for the V, your extensive contributions to the forum are especially appreciated! (I’ll be contacting you shortly to make an appointment to bring my new V to your shop in Indiana for some mods.)

I have 5 questions:

(1) I know that both your CAI systems are louder than the stock system under W.O.T. (which I like). But I’d also like to retain the same (quiet) sound at 70 mph “cruise” as the stock system. So how is the cruise noise level of your CAI systems compared to stock?

(2) In a post by NapperV on another thread, he noted that you had told him “not to remove the brake duct… he said you could extend the filter with another 4 inches of piping and get the filter down into the open area.” (see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/172796-wait4me-4-cold-air-intake-pictures.html). Did he correctly interpret your suggestions that one can gain outside air for your CAI by means other than “pirating” the brake duct cooling?

(3) I especially like the “completely integrated” appearance of the Hennessey CAI system (though the Lingenfelter CAI and New Era CAI systems appear to be a close match). From what I’ve seen of your CAI systems (which have really excellent pricing), one must remove the V’s original acoustic engine housing and, consequently, the engine bay has a bit of an “unfinished look.” Are there any CAI designs you might be working on that provide a more integrated appearance?

(4) On another thread regarding the best oil and filter systems (see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/163547-what-best-synthetic-oil-best-oil-5.html), two forum members (1BlinkGone and C66 Racing) have expressed serious concerns regarding the “compromised” particle filtration of high-performance air filters (such as the K & N filter). (See also CADV’s post on this current thread regarding how the K & N filter “messed up his MAV”; and for more details, see his original post at http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/173651-dyno-results-3.html)
After posting his concerns about the K & N air filtration properties, C66 Racing also noted that Amsoil has a high-flowing air filter with good filtering properties for his Vette, but it is currently not available for the V. So until that V-specific high-performance air filter becomes available from Amsoil, can we use the GM stock V air filter with your two CAI systems?

(5) UPDATE to (4) above: jwa999 has posted a link to a K & N web page with information that seems to indicate that the company has an additional part (the “DryCharger”) for their K & N air filter that not only keeps the air filter drier, but also provides better filtration of “small direct particles; yet adds little restriction to the airflow of the filter.” Do you have any experience with this “add-on” product?

Kyle

jwa999
07-24-09, 05:42 AM
Looking at the AMSoil cone filters (suppose to be pretty good?)

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eaau.aspx

This explaines the terminology:
http://www.amsoil.com/products/ea_filters/EaAU_Features.pdf

This describes the filters:

http://www.amsoil.com/products/ea_filters/EaAU_Photos_and_Specs.pdf

Since the new pipe is 4", i would think filters with a flang ID of 4" would work.
EaAU4070: 6" to 4" width, 7" long
EaAU4090: 6" to 5" width, 9" long (tapered)
EaAU4095: 6.625 to 5.25 width, 9.5 long.
EaAU4091: is bigger, but a little oddly shaped, not sure that would work..

EaAU4090 looks the most interesting. It has an input area at the top of the filter as well. More air coming in from the bottom.

And they have "pre filter" bags as well

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eapf.aspx

Anybody that can confirm any of these filters might work on any of the 4" intakes?

Hans.

haterinc
07-24-09, 10:47 AM
I'd agree with Hans on this, no personal experience with the Amsoil yet, but def going to try it. With the tapered end, there might be more room in there for air induction as there would be more uncompromised surface area...

Razorecko
07-24-09, 11:05 AM
I was going to use amsoil products except if something should occur and you have engine failure GM can use it against you since its not a GM approved product. :nono:

wait4me
07-24-09, 12:42 PM
Well guys, a 4 inch tube is going to flow just as good as anyone elses. So as far as whos is better, they should all be the same. 4inch is 4inch. What makes one better would be quality of parts, coatings, and adjustability. Then comes the filter. The larger it is, the better. It takes longer to clog and damper flow.

The filter im using in my kit flows EXACTLY 1085.17 CFM. The surface filter area is 180.86 inches. Which as you see is a MASSIVE improvement over the stock filter. However, as i have said before, you cant see an improvement with something unless it was a restriction to begin with. Gains in horsepower that are flow related are honest gains. Ones that minipulate the air fuel ratio aren't as they are just tricking the system. So i dont quote gains as high as other people do...

wait4me
07-24-09, 01:04 PM
Thanks, Jess, for providing feedback on this CAI thread. Given your incomparable experience with performance modifications for the V, your extensive contributions to the forum are especially appreciated! (I’ll be contacting you shortly to make an appointment to bring my new V to your shop in Indiana for some mods.)

I have 5 questions:

(1) I know that both your CAI systems are louder than the stock system under W.O.T. (which I like). But I’d also like to retain the same (quiet) sound at 70 mph “cruise” as the stock system. So how is the cruise noise level of your CAI systems compared to stock?


The CAI systems dont make that much noise for regular driving. Only at WOT. So while normal driving there isnt a big change at all. BLOWER ring size is what adds to the normal driving blower noise.


(2) In a post by NapperV on another thread, he noted that you had told him “not to remove the brake duct… he said you could extend the filter with another 4 inches of piping and get the filter down into the open area.” (see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/172796-wait4me-4-cold-air-intake-pictures.html). Did he correctly interpret your suggestions that one can gain outside air for your CAI by means other than “pirating” the brake duct cooling?

Where the car is pulling air from with the cold air kit is where the stock one gets its air also. It is MORE THAN ENOUGH of internal air flow volume to support ANY amount of horsepower under 850hp without having to add from an external source. Removing the brake duct is not needed as it shows 0 gains in temperature or flow restriction. You can measure this using electric thermostats and a pressure flow gauge before and after the filter

(3) I especially like the “completely integrated” appearance of the Hennessey CAI system (though the Lingenfelter CAI and New Era CAI systems appear to be a close match). From what I’ve seen of your CAI systems (which have really excellent pricing), one must remove the V’s original acoustic engine housing and, consequently, the engine bay has a bit of an “unfinished look.” Are there any CAI designs you might be working on that provide a more integrated appearance?


My partial kit is near the exact same as the lingenfelter one except i include an aftermarket filter and alot lower price. The full kit retains all the factory acoustic engine housings if you want them left on. You just drill a 1/8" hole in the side and it black ties onto the front ac housing bracket and it would fit/ stay on perfectly. Usually though, i just remove them all to help keep underhood temps down during the summer. Winter they can go back on....


(4) On another thread regarding the best oil and filter systems (see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/163547-what-best-synthetic-oil-best-oil-5.html), two forum members (1BlinkGone and C66 Racing) have expressed serious concerns regarding the “compromised” particle filtration of high-performance air filters (such as the K & N filter). (See also CADV’s post on this current thread regarding how the K & N filter “messed up his MAV”; and for more details, see his original post at http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/173651-dyno-results-3.html)
After posting his concerns about the K & N air filtration properties, C66 Racing also noted that Amsoil has a high-flowing air filter with good filtering properties for his Vette, but it is currently not available for the V. So until that V-specific high-performance air filter becomes available from Amsoil, can we use the GM stock V air filter with your two CAI systems?


Oils and contamination can easiely be removed with maf cleaner. Any wet filter can get airborn, that is just life... As for the oil filters and what ones are better, the only way to know that really is to cut them open and look at surface area of the filter media, and its micron rating. The lower the micron the better, BUT it also clogs faster and then restricts oil flow, or goes and starts bypassing oil thru the top bypass valve.. At which point is worthless....



(5) UPDATE to (4) above: jwa999 has posted a link to a K & N web page with information that seems to indicate that the company has an additional part (the “DryCharger”) for their K & N air filter that not only keeps the air filter drier, but also provides better filtration of “small direct particles; yet adds little restriction to the airflow of the filter.” Do you have any experience with this “add-on” product?


Dry filter add on is fine, but depends on your location if it is really needed. High dust/sand areas, it couldn't hurt, but it may restrict flow as it gets dirtier...





That should answer all your questions

Razorecko
07-24-09, 01:15 PM
^ you have a pm Jesse. And to the poster above the Drycharger WILL NOT prevent hydrolock. It will prevent contaminants from getting into the filter though. The drycharger does have a specific life cycle before it needs to be tossed.

wait4me
07-24-09, 01:26 PM
Hydrolocking is the main reason why i dont have the filter completely down into the hole. For my kit to hydrolock the water would have to be PAST the headlight and that would be past the point where even the stock assembly would suck in the water.

aburd
07-25-09, 01:06 AM
so wait4me. should i buy yours or mod mine. of course with a tune?

ab

kck
07-25-09, 01:11 AM
Looking at the AMSoil cone filters (suppose to be pretty good?)

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eaau.aspx

This explaines the terminology:
http://www.amsoil.com/products/ea_filters/EaAU_Features.pdf

This describes the filters:

http://www.amsoil.com/products/ea_filters/EaAU_Photos_and_Specs.pdf

Since the new pipe is 4", i would think filters with a flang ID of 4" would work.
EaAU4070: 6" to 4" width, 7" long
EaAU4090: 6" to 5" width, 9" long (tapered)
EaAU4095: 6.625 to 5.25 width, 9.5 long.
EaAU4091: is bigger, but a little oddly shaped, not sure that would work..

EaAU4090 looks the most interesting. It has an input area at the top of the filter as well. More air coming in from the bottom.

And they have "pre filter" bags as well

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eapf.aspx

Anybody that can confirm any of these filters might work on any of the 4" intakes?

Hans.

jwa999:
As part of my post on the "Oil & Filter" thread (see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/163547-what-best-synthetic-oil-best-oil-7.html#post1950738), I’ve alerted Brad (C66 Racing) that you have questions regarding Amsoil air filters. He carries the Amsoil product line.

Kyle

Razorecko
07-25-09, 11:43 AM
Hey Jesse, did you get my pm by chance ?

aburd
07-25-09, 08:51 PM
So from reading other posts has Jess fixed the whole pulling fuses issue with his tunes from handheld?

jwa999
07-26-09, 12:21 AM
So from reading other posts has Jess fixed the whole pulling fuses issue with his tunes from handheld?

Yup, I had the problem, if I don't pull the fuses, my car ends up dead in the water.
With the new firmware, I was able to download the tune with no problem.
Make sure you have 1.2.112.6. You can check under device info when you receive your hand held.
Don't worry, you can always call Jesse if you run into any problems.

Hans.

CadV
07-26-09, 01:08 AM
Check this thread...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/175574-dyno-part-deux.html

4" intake gave me 6 rwhp and 5rwtq

Hardly worth 400 dollars

Razorecko
07-26-09, 10:44 AM
Check this thread...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/175574-dyno-part-deux.html

4" intake gave me 6 rwhp and 5rwtq

Hardly worth 400 dollars

You were using the handheld tune though right - I would like to see what Jesses' updated tune for a 4" setup 90 mmtb & cai would pull.

CadV
07-26-09, 12:32 PM
You were using the handheld tune though right - I would like to see what Jesses' updated tune for a 4" setup 90 mmtb & cai would pull.

I was using a dyno tune, Jesse never sent me an updated one. I prolly made 10 pulls.

noelvm
02-10-10, 10:24 PM
How can the K&N mess up your maf, unless you sprayed it with oil before you installed it?
MAF sensor don't likey oil.

noelvm

Gary Wells
02-11-10, 07:03 AM
How can the K&N mess up your maf, unless you sprayed it with oil before you installed it?
MAF sensor don't likey oil.

noelvm


Generally, so far, when filter is cleaned after original use and re-oiled. However, a dealer could report your car for running a oil-based filter and you might have warranty issues regarding your maf.

C66 Racing
02-11-10, 10:04 AM
How can the K&N mess up your maf, unless you sprayed it with oil before you installed it?
MAF sensor don't likey oil.

noelvm

I used a K&N in my 02 Corvette Z06 which I race in the SCCA (near stock). As part of pre-race maintenance I would check filter and MAF and usually found the MAF appeared to have an oil sheen on it. I bought an electronic wire spray cleaner from Radio Shack to help keep it clean. Eventually switched to the AMSOIL Ea Air Filter (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/EAPB.htm) mentioned above.

As an aside, AMSOIL's doesn't yet make one of these for the stock 09 airbox, though one of the AMSOIL EA Air Induction Air Filters (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/EAAUPB.htm) may fit an aftermarket intake.
:cheers:

CadV
02-11-10, 10:32 AM
My MAF got messed up on a brand new K&N but it did not happen when I was stock only when I upped the boost.