: Flaw of having no spare tire...



commander112
07-19-09, 09:48 PM
So I scratched a rim and need to get the chips taken out, repolished and recleared (very expensive BK breakfast sandwitch). Problem is the shop will need the rim for about four days. No spare means my car will be sitting in the garage on a jack stand. PIA.

Prof
07-19-09, 10:49 PM
Another good reason to buy a set of the 360 Forged Mesh 6 rims!!!! Keep the oem for snow tires!

That's my story and I am sticking with it!

rp161
07-21-09, 11:08 AM
I agree 100% but, I just want a spare tire.

CIWS
07-21-09, 11:26 AM
Had something similar happen, except it was the dealership who scratched the wheel when doing a rotation. Luckily I had a spare wheel and they swapped it out and sent the other off to be refinished.

Ketzer
07-21-09, 07:37 PM
Had something similar happen, except it was the dealership who scratched the wheel when doing a rotation. Luckily I had a spare wheel and they swapped it out and sent the other off to be refinished.

Dealerships do not scratch wheels. Physically impossible.

(Sorry, :horse:)


Jeff-

CIWS
07-21-09, 09:00 PM
Dealerships do not scratch wheels. Physically impossible.

The cool thing is they didn't try to deny it or say it was pre-existing. They just had them redone. :)

tedcmiller
07-21-09, 10:52 PM
Gosh darn, I was all set to get on my soap box and talk about no spare and no run-flats on the 2009 CTS-V. This thread doesn't have anything to do with run-flats (or the lack thereof). Shucks.

neuronbob
07-21-09, 11:06 PM
Bizarre. Why doesn't the V have a spare, only the fix-a-flat kit and tire compressor? Is it to save weight?

tedcmiller
07-22-09, 12:49 PM
anonfrank,
My guess is that the car was originally intended to come with run-flats (a really good idea IMO) ala the 2004-2007 CTS-V. The switch to non-run-flats required something. A small pump is a lot cheaper and weighs a lot less than a full-size spare tire and wheel.

So why not a small temporary spare? Existing temporary spares do not fit the hub (more development money and time). As many people, who do not like run-flats found out, even with the tub removed, a full-size spare and wheel did not quite fit in the 2004-2007 CTS-V. Is this also true of the 2009 CTS-V? I don't know. Bottom line, a pump is the cheapest and least heavy solution to a problem that they might not have anticipated.:rolleyes:

Cadillac Tony
07-22-09, 01:22 PM
Starting in 2010, all Cadillacs will be coming with the inflator kit- no more spare tires. Studies have shown that 90% of people haven't changed a tire in 20 years or more, and since 5 yr/100,000 mile Roadside service and towing is included free with the new car warranty, a spare tire is a waste of money that just adds weight and reduces storage room.

On the V in particular, runflats had nothing to do with it. The size and width of a wheel needed to clear the Brembos on a V would never have fit in the tub. To do so would require them to raise the load floor surrounding the spare tire cover to make it sit flat, which would have added cost and reduced trunk size.

bpospo
07-22-09, 01:58 PM
run flats are a no no on performance cars

neuronbob
07-22-09, 02:37 PM
Wow. I pop a tire every year or so because the roads are so bad in Cleveland, and because I have to drive so much for my job. I have made use of the spare tire in every car I've owned in the last ten years.

tedcmiller
07-23-09, 01:33 AM
To say that run-flats have nothing to do with it is pretty silly. If you have run-flats, you don't need a spare or an inflator. There are run-flats on the Corvette, but at the time the 2009 CTS-V was designed, there were no run-flats available in the tire sizes selected for this car. Since then Michelin has begun to produce a 285/35ZR19 ZP (zero pressure) tire (the correct rear tire size for the CTS-V) but still no front run-flat. It is my guess that if run-flat tires in the correct front and rear sizes were available at the time the tires for the CTS-V were selected, the 2009 CTS-V would have run-flats with no inflator or spare just like the 2004-2007 CTS-V.

Hopefully, by the time I wear out the non-run-flats provided on my 2009 CTS-V, Michelin will have come out with a front tire in the ZP version. Contrary to anything bpospo might say, I will put run-flats on my car. After all, the Corvette is a "performance" car and it has run-flats. How do you explain that bpospo?

Ketzer
07-23-09, 10:21 AM
Not to agree or disagree,
We have a 96 CooperS. Had factory 18" runflats. My wife had a flat and the tire unseated from the rim (normal city driving, as soon as the low tire warning came on, she pulled over). So with runflats, she still had a flat and was unable to continue.

Just our opinion based on switching to non-runflats, the non runflats ride significantly better. The handling was only marginally affected by the softer sidewall. We would not go back to runflats. They wore waaayy to fast, rode terrible, and are rdiculously expensive for what little technology is there.

Many folks swear by them.
Several reviews I read said they gave a superior handling.
I wouldn't have them.

Jeff-

tedcmiller
07-23-09, 03:43 PM
A few people have had negative experiences with run-flats. This is true of any kind of tire - run-flat or not. Most, who have had or have them, have not. I think is a given that run-flats do not ride as nicely as non-run-flats due primarily to the stiffer side wall. I personally have experienced two flats with run-flats and have been able to continue driving the car (both CTS-Vs) with no problems. I will take this additional safety and convenience over slight performance and ride improvements, and somewhat lower cost, any day. As soon as a complete set of front and rear tires that match current 2009 CTS-V tire specs are available, my non-run-flats are gone - to be replaced with run-flats.

In any case, those who don't like run-flats will really be upset when the Feds mandate run-flats for all new cars. My guess is that this will happen within the next five years.

surgin
07-24-09, 12:15 AM
Wow. I pop a tire every year or so because the roads are so bad in Cleveland, and because I have to drive so much for my job. I have made use of the spare tire in every car I've owned in the last ten years.

i agree. i have used the spare on every car i have ever owned.

V-Eight
07-24-09, 01:28 AM
Only ever need a spare once and that was when I went through a pothole that bent my shitty steel winter rim. Instead, I just pumped it back up and took it in to get the summer tires put on, it was near the end of spring anyway, and just got a new rim at that time

neuronbob
08-06-09, 10:15 PM
Bringing this back. I intend to buy a spare for out-of-town trips. The more I think about it, the more I think the inflator is total BS for long freeway trips. I'm planning a trip to DC with the wife over Labor Day weekend and I'm absolutely NOT driving the Pilot this time....o what drudgery that would be to drive the mommymobile for a short trip. The spare means 1/2 hour at the side of the road vs. potentially hours in the middle of nowhere waiting for a tow.

Any clues on what will fit and where I can get one? Can I use a spare from the standard CTS?

Barry626
08-06-09, 10:55 PM
anonfrank,


As many people, who do not like run-flats found out, even with the tub removed, a full-size spare and wheel did not quite fit in the 2004-2007 CTS-V. Is this also true of the 2009 CTS-V? I don't know. Bottom line, a pump is the cheapest and least heavy solution to a problem that they might not have anticipated.:rolleyes:

I would say 9-10 people hate runflats as I do too.
I had 2 BMW's & they sucked BIG TIME... car ran like it was on rails!
Had CTS-V had runflats most people would not buy it? I would NOT!

commander112
08-06-09, 11:43 PM
Any clues on what will fit and where I can get one? Can I use a spare from the standard CTS?

No. The CTS spare would NEVER clear the brakes.

tedcmiller
08-07-09, 12:00 AM
I would say 9-10 people hate runflats as I do too.
I had 2 BMW's & they sucked BIG TIME... car ran like it was on rails!
Had CTS-V had runflats most people would not buy it? I would NOT!

Barry626,
All CTS-V in the 2004-2007 series came with run-flats. People bought the car anyway. I think your estimate that nine out of ten people do not like run-flats is just another misinformed guess. Do you have any proof? Your "guess" does not specify whether you are talking about nine out of ten people in general, nine out of ten people who have or had run-flats, or CTS-V owners with run-flats.

Barry626
08-07-09, 01:51 AM
Barry626,
Your "guess" does not specify whether you are talking about nine out of ten people in general, nine out of ten people who have or had run-flats, or CTS-V owners with run-flats.

I would say 9/10 who ever had runflats would not want them again?
I had them twice thinking maybe it was the "Sport Suspension" on my BMW.
No way, runflats are hard as rocks & just horrible!

Real surprised most past CTS-V owners like them?
09 Owmers should just get the runflats on their cars if they think they are all that?
Our cars come dirt cheap for what we get so no big deal to spend $1600 for 4 runflats.
Better yet want a spare just buy a wheel & tire & take it with you when on long trips?

tedcmiller
08-07-09, 03:38 PM
Barry626
All of your statements are guesses or personal opinion. You try to present them as facts. Sorry, most people don't buy into the concept of pretending to know what you are talking about means you do.

Only Bridgestone makes run-flats in the sizes used on the 2009 CTS-V, and they are not currently available in the U.S.

JFJr
08-07-09, 03:56 PM
I would say 9-10 people hate runflats as I do too.
I had 2 BMW's & they sucked BIG TIME... car ran like it was on rails!
Had CTS-V had runflats most people would not buy it? I would NOT!
I disagree with your opinion about how many people hate run-flats. I had them on 3 C5 Corvettes and my 2005 CTS-V, and was disappointed that they didn't come on my 2009 CTS-V. Recall that the 2009 Corvette ZR1 has PS2 run-flats and I don't remember reading any complaints about their ride and handling characteristics.

4gear70
08-07-09, 04:12 PM
I can't speak for all run-flats but the ones that came on my 2005 CTS-V (Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar EMT) were horrible as far as durability, noise and wet traction went. And for the money, there were far better tires on the market.
According to Tire Rack.com, the consumer reviewers ranked them 29th out of 29 (for their Max performance Summer category) with 4.8 out of 10 that would buy again.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=MP&width=245%2F&ratio=45&diameter=18&tireSearch=true&autoMake=Cadillac&autoYear=2005&autoModel=CTS-V&autoModClar=


http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Eagle+F1+Supercar+EMT

Barry626
08-07-09, 05:01 PM
Barry626
All of your statements are guesses or personal opinion. You try to present them as facts. Sorry, most people don't buy into the concept of pretending to know what you are talking about means you do.

Only Bridgestone makes run-flats in the sizes used on the 2009 CTS-V, and they are not currently available in the U.S.

REALLY?

What's wrong with these & car doesn't have to be staggered.

Pirelli Eufori@ Run Flat
P255/40R-19 96W RF B
$469.00 ea. @ Discount Tire.

neuronbob
08-07-09, 05:26 PM
I have absolutely no interest in run-flats.

All I want is a decent spare and genuinely wish Caddy had provided one. I wonder if Caddy/GM execs living in the Detroit area haven't had any flat tires, and assume others have shared that lack of experience. The statistic noted earlier in the thread simply seems unbelievable to me...most people haven't changed a flat? Sigh....

In researching the topic on this site, I found that someone brought up the possibility of using a front wheel for the purpose. That possibility was shot down because it was uncertain whether the wheel would clear the rear brake calipers, without trying to do any measurements. Anyone willing to try it? I'm willing to try when I get my car back from the body shop....it'll be time for an oil change at that time anyway.

Cadillac Tony
08-07-09, 06:46 PM
It's a slow afternoon, so I decided to do a little "hands on" research on this one. After measuring everything, I sadly don't see a spare wheel & tire fitting in the back of a CTS-V, unless you just throw it in the trunk (instead of cargo) on a trip.

Back when the CTS-V first came out in 2004, we had a bunch of owners on here wanting to do the same thing you're talking about. In order to make the wheel fit in the storage area under the trunk carpet cover, they needed to rip out the plastic tub to gain more room. The problem is that 08/09 CTSs don't have a plastic tub, but instead have full carpeting that lays right on top of the metal floorpan stamping. There's nothing to remove in that area to gain more space- what you see is what you get (minus maybe .25" if you cut out the carpeting).

A quick measurement of the front wheel + tire (the smaller of the two) from the centerline came in at 26.5" tall and 10.5" wide. It doesn't photograph well, but here's the pics so you know I really measured it.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=139&pictureid=4650

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=139&pictureid=4651


Now you compare that to the well in the trunk, and here's where the problem comes in. The "tub" that's stamped in the floorpan tapers down narrower in both directions as it gets deeper, meaning the top opening where I'm measuring it is wider than the bottom by about 3". Go pull your carpet back and you'll see what I mean.

Measured from the centerline, the opening is 26" front to rear and 27" across. That means the wheel will fit in the opening (barely), but won't drop to the bottom due to the taper. The bottom of the tub is approx 23" x 24".

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=139&pictureid=4652

You obviously won't be able to put the cover over the wheel since it's not going to drop all the way into that recess, but how much will it be sticking out? Well I measured the front 255 tire at 10.5" wide, and yet the tub is only 8.5-9" deep. Keep in mind that the tub immediately starts tapering down, so I'd guess that the wheel will only drop in about 6" before it becomes too narrow, which would leave almost 5" of tire sticking up out of the tub.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=139&pictureid=4654

I'm sure it's technically possible, but it won't be easy or pretty unless someone can find a much smaller ratio tire that will fit a front rim to use as a spare (like a 245/35 or something).

rp161
08-07-09, 07:33 PM
I bought a 19x9 front wheel 2009 CTSV from Cadillac with sensor and put a 27 inch Diameter tire on it. I lay it in the trunk, it will never fit the cutout.
Its peace of mind if you get a flat. It will bail you out of unwanted problems. No one will have your tire in stock. Some places will not even be able to change your tire. All at a cost of 925. for peace of mind.

Cadillac Tony
08-07-09, 07:37 PM
I bought a 19x9 front wheel 2009 CTSV from Cadillac with sensor and put a 27 inch Diameter tire on it. I lay it in the trunk, it will never fit the cutout.

Man, I wish you'd typed that before I layed on the floor of the showroom with a measuring tape and typed that novel.

:lol: :rofl:

4gear70
08-07-09, 07:50 PM
I bought a 19x9 front wheel 2009 CTSV from Cadillac with sensor and put a 27 inch Diameter tire on it. I lay it in the trunk, it will never fit the cutout.
Its peace of mind if you get a flat. It will bail you out of unwanted problems. No one will have your tire in stock. Some places will not even be able to change your tire. All at a cost of 925. for peace of mind.

Don't forget that you'll need to carry a floor jack and socket wrench as well... for peace of mind.

neuronbob
08-07-09, 08:45 PM
Tony, THANK YOU! You are the man.

I was going to do this, but my car is still in the body shop from its recent mishap.

It appears that even if Cadillac designed a spare that would fit the V, clearing its calipers, the tub is not big enough to hold a spare that large.

The only realistic long-term option is to use run-flats (take it from me, having come from Acura RL-land....YUCK and I didn't even have that option on my RL), but for the short term I'll simply have to live with the inflator and hope I don't tear a tire wide open.

Note to Caddy execs: please don't give up on the spare tire. Guys with bad luck like me, who live in locales like Cleveland, like me (read MASSIVE potholes), need them still.

commander112
08-07-09, 09:51 PM
With the size of our tires if we had a spare it would eat up fuel tank size pretty rapidly. As fast as these things drink gas (heavy lead foot) I guess I'd rather have the tank. Still would be nice to have a spare though.

Mark

tedcmiller
08-10-09, 01:31 AM
BArry626,
The problem with the tire you specified is that it is only the front tire. You didn't identify a coresponding rear tire (285/35R19). The fact is that while various maufacturers make both sizes of tires in run-flats they are different tires with different treads. As I said, only Bridgestone makes a run-flat tire for both the front and rear in the same type tire (RE050A) and no domestic tire supplier, Tire Rack included, carries them at this time.

1-2-N-V
08-10-09, 07:32 AM
Another good reason to buy a set of the 360 Forged Mesh 6 rims!!!! Keep the oem for snow tires!

That's my story and I am sticking with it!

Exactly My thoughts. Get the Michellin Pilot Sport AS plus for the winters. I have them on my wife's Infinity M. Good tire. Got check to see if in our size. Then i will probably buy some rims for some fat 315s or something and maybe put the 285s up front. Not sure if this set up would work with lowering the car also. Have to do my DD.

tedcmiller
08-10-09, 03:24 PM
Note that the rims for the rear (285/35R19) are different (wider) than the rims for the front (255/40R19). This is based on visual observation, not on guess work based on tire sizes, etc.

rp161
08-11-09, 10:06 AM
Responding to 1-2-n-v, the polit sport a/s plus is the tire to get for a/s. The v2 however has larger rims in the
rear and the size that fits only comes in a run flat. There are no run flats for the front tire and it is not recommended to mix run flats with regular tires, I guess it could be done. There is a match for tires in 20s'.
I might just get 4 19X9 rims and go with 255/40/19 all around.

tedcmiller
08-11-09, 10:26 AM
When my existing Michelin PS2 non-run-flats wear out, hopefully, a run-flat front tire in the Michelin PS2 series will be available to go with the run-flat (Zero Pressure) rear tire. If not, I will look into the Bridgestone RE050As that are currently not available through domestic distributors. These tires are a matched set in the correct sizes, and while I have had problems with initial cold weather flat spots on the RE050As, I would buy them again.