: Track days and Hard Braking



Silver -V-
07-14-09, 12:30 PM
I spent a lot of time out at the track this weekend in some intense heat (104 air and the track surface was 173!). This car handles great, and moves really well for such a big car. I noticed a few things at the road course, I was hoping to see if anyone else experienced with this car on a track.

1) The back end of the car seemed to hop under hard braking prior to a corner. After a fast straight, the back end would hop slightly when straightline braking, but would stay under control when trail braking. Is there a brake bias we can adjust?

2) The front calipers were beginning to turn gold like on the old Brembo brakes on my V1. Despite this and some big heat, the pads and brakes never really got too greasy or soft. They held up beyond my expectations, and the rotors cooled down fairly well with 1.5 hours between sessions.

3) Has anyone created a bigger sway bar yet? The car has a lot of roll, even with the MR shocks turned to sport. This car can use a stiffer track spring rate.

4) What is the biggest tire we can fit in the wheel wells on the stock wheel? The Michellins are very good tires, but I would like a larger footprint to keep the car from sliding so much on off-camber turns.

5) Can anyone recommend a 4 or 5 point tuner harness I can mount in and out of the car? I need the car to haul customers and the family during the week, so the harness would need to come out after the lapping days. I have been using a CG lock, but I really need more security.

1-2-N-V
07-14-09, 01:10 PM
I spent a lot of time out at the track this weekend in some intense heat (104 air and the track surface was 173!). This car handles great, and moves really well for such a big car. I noticed a few things at the road course, I was hoping to see if anyone else experienced with this car on a track.

1) The back end of the car seemed to hop under hard braking prior to a corner. After a fast straight, the back end would hop slightly when straightline braking, but would stay under control when trail braking. Is there a brake bias we can adjust?

2) The front calipers were beginning to turn gold like on the old Brembo brakes on my V1. Despite this and some big heat, the pads and brakes never really got too greasy or soft. They held up beyond my expectations, and the rotors cooled down fairly well with 1.5 hours between sessions.

3) Has anyone created a bigger sway bar yet? The car has a lot of roll, even with the MR shocks turned to sport. This car can use a stiffer track spring rate.

4) What is the biggest tire we can fit in the wheel wells on the stock wheel? The Michellins are very good tires, but I would like a larger footprint to keep the car from sliding so much on off-camber turns.

5) Can anyone recommend a 4 or 5 point tuner harness I can mount in and out of the car? I need the car to haul customers and the family during the week, so the harness would need to come out after the lapping days. I have been using a CG lock, but I really need more security.


Funny, I never noticed any hop when braking at the track. Even when trail braking. For the most part i was braking before the turn. Solid as a rock. Brakes worked Very Very well even with only 1/2 hr 45 min.cool downs No discolor on the caliper but my rotors were like gun metal blue. Must have been glowing at times:thumbsup: I thought these brake rotors were supposed to be slotted? That what my catalog showed. Maybe that is the brake upgrade pkg.

I hear you about the roll though. As good as this car handles i thought the roll was a tad excessive. I think with some lowered stiffer springs and maybe a sway bar may help this. These suspension and braking upgrades, another 50+ horses offered maybe in a a track package, Then.... we could see new track record at the Ring. Maybe the 11 or 12 model year will solidly spank that Porsche "wagon" by another couple seconds. All for maybe few extra grand. No where near even $100k

Would like to see a little more beef on the tires Maybe some 305+ on the rears. the 285s in the front would be cool:cool2:

AZstar
07-14-09, 04:24 PM
1. I did not notice any sort of hop during hard braking. The long back straight at Pocono was 140mph then braking hard for a sharp right hand turn. I never experienced any braking issues at this turn, no fade, no hop, just consistent, repeatable, linear braking.

2. My calipers are painted red so I didn't notice any discoloration. The performance has been phenomenal.

3. Don't know about a stiffer sway bar. Although there is considerable roll, I felt it was quite manageable.

4. I have been exceptionally impressed with the stock tires. I'm not sure that wider tires would be preferable. The contact patch is already quite big. Having said that, though, I have thought about seeing if the rear wheels fit up front so I could eliminate the stagger.

5. There is a harness that I have seen but not used called Schroth http://www.soloracer.com/schroth.html. It looks like it is compatible with a daily driver.

stealthjr
07-14-09, 07:34 PM
I spent a lot of time out at the track this weekend in some intense heat (104 air and the track surface was 173!). This car handles great, and moves really well for such a big car. I noticed a few things at the road course, I was hoping to see if anyone else experienced with this car on a track.

1) The back end of the car seemed to hop under hard braking prior to a corner. After a fast straight, the back end would hop slightly when straightline braking, but would stay under control when trail braking. Is there a brake bias we can adjust?

2) The front calipers were beginning to turn gold like on the old Brembo brakes on my V1. Despite this and some big heat, the pads and brakes never really got too greasy or soft. They held up beyond my expectations, and the rotors cooled down fairly well with 1.5 hours between sessions.

3) Has anyone created a bigger sway bar yet? The car has a lot of roll, even with the MR shocks turned to sport. This car can use a stiffer track spring rate.

4) What is the biggest tire we can fit in the wheel wells on the stock wheel? The Michellins are very good tires, but I would like a larger footprint to keep the car from sliding so much on off-camber turns.

5) Can anyone recommend a 4 or 5 point tuner harness I can mount in and out of the car? I need the car to haul customers and the family during the week, so the harness would need to come out after the lapping days. I have been using a CG lock, but I really need more security.

Hey man...fun times out there this weekend. I'll help you where I can ok?

1) First, the track surface was obviously not very smooth and could have contributed to the hop in certain corners. I can tell you from previous wheel to wheel racing experience that I have years ago that "if" the problem is with the braking system, you can solve this by putting a less aggressive set of pads on the rear or a more aggressive set on the front. This moves the majority of the braking forward and that will remove the hop. Unfortunately, I have not put my V on the track yet and with others not experiencing this problem...my gut tells me the track surface is to blame.

2) The "calipers" were turning gold or the rotors were? If you are indeed talking about the calipers...what did the rotors look like? :confused: That's not a good sign at all really. Also, you REALLY need to look at stainless brake lines if you are going to track the car like you are and you want a consistent pedal. The rubber lines are NEVER going to work on these big cars for tracking. (You will be amazed at the difference!)

I can't help you with #3 or #4 and I will be looking for some help on #5 once I start tracking if the Recaro's aren't up to snuff!

Hope that helps a little. Get your butt over here and let's put in on the lift and change the pads and brake lines fool! :thumbsup:

See ya!

Robert

Silver -V-
07-15-09, 08:14 AM
Stealth -

Thanks again for shooting some photos at the Track.

As for the surface of the track, yes it was very rough, but I was getting some hopping on the smoother areas as well. It was noticeable enough that another driver I had passed noticed it in a couple of turns and mentioned it to me when he had been trying to keep up.

The Caliperson the V1 had a tendency to discolor under intense braking. These apparently do this as well. The rotors seem to be in good shape other than having a bit of extra brake material spread around as dust. I am very, very impressed with their holding, and how low the amount of fade was for this big car.

Silver V's Black car and Stealth Jr. Thunder Gray -
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/moth-94987/DSC06187.jpg

CIWS
07-15-09, 09:02 AM
5) Can anyone recommend a 4 or 5 point tuner harness I can mount in and out of the car? I need the car to haul customers and the family during the week, so the harness would need to come out after the lapping days. I have been using a CG lock, but I really need more security.

Naa, you need another V2 :D

;)


2) The "calipers" were turning gold or the rotors were? If you are indeed talking about the calipers...what did the rotors look like? :confused: That's not a good sign at all really.

A pretty common thing in the V1 with the guys tracking their cars. :)

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/1883015-post10.html

rjoffe
07-15-09, 11:17 AM
Any diff heating issues ?

Silver -V-
07-15-09, 12:30 PM
No differential issues at all. THe track surface was 170 degrees plus, and we ran very hard with a couple of 2000' straights. The Differential issues I had heard about never showed up.

fyi - I run the stock GM fluids, and changed at 1500 mi. I am now at 6000mi with 4 track days. I have had no heating or fluid issues at all. Also, the oil is still looking good after 2k mi.

Kaline
07-15-09, 12:51 PM
Having your silver Brembo calipers turn a gold-ish color after extended track use is normal and not anything to be concerned about. Brembo has an issue with their paint at high temps: the silver color changes color to a gold color. An engineer from Brembo explained it to me in detail: all I remember is that it was only a cosmetic issue with the color (it does not crack or flake off). The V1 and V2 use the same paint on their calipers: hence why both cars do it after the brakes get real hot.

I'm glad to see the new CTS-V getting some track time!

jvp
07-15-09, 04:00 PM
No differential issues at all. THe track surface was 170 degrees plus, and we ran very hard with a couple of 2000' straights. The Differential issues I had heard about never showed up.

I'm happy to see that you didn't run into any of the diff over heating issues, but straights aren't really going to exercise the diff much. Powering through corners will. :-)

jas

BacDoc
07-15-09, 08:24 PM
2. My calipers are painted red so I didn't notice any discoloration. The performance has been phenomenal.


This the "track pack" 2 piece setup? Or did you just paint them?

Tony407
07-15-09, 09:10 PM
I'm not sure, but I think I read a magazine article somewhere about thicker anti-sway bars for the V2. Anyone?

D3 is getting pretty close to having some lowering springs specifically made for the V2. I'd keep in touch with them. James is who I've been dealing with there and he's very helpful.

Tony

AZstar
07-16-09, 08:41 AM
This the "track pack" 2 piece setup? Or did you just paint them?

Painted with Dupli-Color.

See my thread, http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/172193-caliper-painting.html.

OldRoadDawg
07-16-09, 08:59 AM
m-m-mm.... gold
The mark of a well exercised 'V'