: Cali V's are slower with YF5



Krug Ford
07-09-09, 03:21 PM
I saw a report today from GM that the YF5 emissions on the V.. make the cars slower.

More emission equipment.. smog pump is different, PCM, Convertors, Fuel Pump.

Makes a slower car in testing. all the mags test did tests on FE9 Cars..

mik2718
07-09-09, 03:56 PM
Another reason to be happy to not live in CA!

Luna.
07-09-09, 04:10 PM
Interesting. Doesn't surprise me though... :thepan:

Don't be fooled though---many Vs sold outside of CA will have the same smog crap installed.

stealthjr
07-09-09, 04:11 PM
I saw a report today from GM that the YF5 emissions on the V.. make the cars slower.

More emission equipment.. smog pump is different, PCM, Convertors, Fuel Pump.

Makes a slower car in testing. all the mags test did tests on FE9 Cars..

I can't imagine this "report" is confidential. Any chance you can share it with us or send me a copy of it to my e-mail address or PM box? Unfortunately, the only car available (with my options) on the planet was in California and that's where I bought it. I will dyno mine tomorrow or Saturday BONE stock with about 500 miles in it to see what the numbers look like.

What your saying does make some sense because why would all of the "FR9" cars be 50 State Compliant and yet GM still had to make a "YF5" to satisfy California emissions.

The only thing that DOESN'T add up is the fact these cars are SAE rated for their horsepower...which means even the YF5 cars MUST be rated at that horsepower. So, maybe the FE9 cars have a little bit more horsepower?

Hopefully, between a copy of your report and my dyno numbers we can makes some sense of this.

Robert

stealthjr
07-09-09, 04:20 PM
One last thing...where can the RPO sticker be found on this car? I looked on all for doors, the glove box, under the hood, in the trunk...nothing!

Thanks,

Robert

OldRoadDawg
07-09-09, 04:29 PM
One last thing...where can the RPO sticker be found on this car? I looked on all for doors, the glove box, under the hood, in the trunk...nothing!

Thanks,

Robert
Could they be like the V1 cars? There is a sticker on the underside of the cover for the wheel well in the trunk.

stealthjr
07-09-09, 04:31 PM
Could they be like the V1 cars? There is a sticker on the underside of the cover for the wheel well in the trunk.

BINGO! I found it, thanks!

GM-4-LIFE
07-09-09, 05:13 PM
Good thing I bought a NON-YF5 vehicle out of state and had it shipped from the selling dealer to me here.

My V passed CA emissions with no problems and it is registered here in CA, so if any of you CA guys want a V, don't be afraid of not being able to register it here. You can with no problems at all.

The 2009 CTS-V along with all other GM vehicles are 50 state cars.

Hope this helps!

SG

Krug Ford
07-09-09, 05:48 PM
Have you local dealer look up through parts. Any tech can call the dealer hotline to confirm..

stealthjr
07-09-09, 06:02 PM
Have you local dealer look up through parts. Any tech can call the dealer hotline to confirm..

Gee...thanks for the help! :banghead:

You brought up this document, you work at a dealership, and you want us to go try and drive all over town trying to find someone that has any clue what we are talking about? Nevermind... :tisk:

Krug Ford
07-09-09, 06:08 PM
This was an internal doc..

not at the dealership..

qictrk
07-09-09, 06:44 PM
I also got mine from out of state(Superior), and had it shipped here in Ca. Still passed smog with no problems. Not sure why they have two different models if both can pass all 50 state requirements. Cecil.........

Luna.
07-09-09, 07:12 PM
I also got mine from out of state(Superior), and had it shipped here in Ca. Still passed smog with no problems. Not sure why they have two different models if both can pass all 50 state requirements. Cecil.........

I'm the exact same and would ask the same question... Very strange...

Krug Ford
07-10-09, 12:32 PM
You wonder why this would be. I am not GM and I don't make the changes. The Escalade for example is the same thing. If you get an Escalade its FE9 emissions is only 49 state. You need to order Cal. Yf5..

vetteconvert
07-10-09, 02:22 PM
Interesting. Doesn't surprise me though... :thepan:

Don't be fooled though---many Vs sold outside of CA will have the same smog crap installed.

YOU'RE RIGHT!! Just checked the RPO sticker on my 09 Arizona-based and purchased CTS-V and sure enough, it shows the CA smog code. Have emailed Cadillac and am now awaiting their response. This appears to be a rip-off: why should I be penalized with additional emission junk living in Arizona?

Dr. Design
07-10-09, 02:42 PM
California is trying to lead a charge to further reduce and cut down on vehicle emissions. Unfortunately other states are going to be following suit and manufacturers will eventually have to make "CA Spec emission vehicles" and "Regular vehicles" or eventually just make them ALL CA SPEC.

Thanks,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac




I can't imagine this "report" is confidential. Any chance you can share it with us or send me a copy of it to my e-mail address or PM box? Unfortunately, the only car available (with my options) on the planet was in California and that's where I bought it. I will dyno mine tomorrow or Saturday BONE stock with about 500 miles in it to see what the numbers look like.

What your saying does make some sense because why would all of the "FR9" cars be 50 State Compliant and yet GM still had to make a "YF5" to satisfy California emissions.

The only thing that DOESN'T add up is the fact these cars are SAE rated for their horsepower...which means even the YF5 cars MUST be rated at that horsepower. So, maybe the FE9 cars have a little bit more horsepower?

Hopefully, between a copy of your report and my dyno numbers we can makes some sense of this.

Robert

Hawkeye2
07-10-09, 03:21 PM
They also make "export" versions for export to other countries. Since Cal is as big as other countries, I believe that they could
build a Cal specific vehicle. The others may pass, however the Cal version is certified by GM to pass without being tested.

stealthjr
07-10-09, 05:13 PM
Well...I dont doubt that Scott saw the "document" he is referring to in his post as I'm sure he did. However, I'm here to tell you that I dont care what the document said...I just got back from the dyno with my bone stock V with only 309 miles on it and it put down 457rwhp and 448ft lbs.

So, maybe the Cali smog car makes less power, maybe global warming is true, and maybe Elvis is still alive...however, I'm going to just say what I said earlier in this thread and that is this: It still has to make the SAE rated 556hp numbers! Judging by my numbers...anyone with the YF5 has nothing to feel ripped about! :cool2:

See ya!

Robert

P.S. It was 104 degrees outside and I just drove 40 minutes to the dyno. My car sat for less than 30 minutes before it was on the rollers making a pull.

wait4me
07-10-09, 07:22 PM
Robert, if you send me a vin of your California car, i can go thru the build and see if there is indead differences in the cars.

thebigjimsho
07-17-09, 01:21 PM
My Honda Accord had emissions that were more stringent for 5 states, including CA. It was classified(an '01 model) as an ULEV(Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle) as opposed to an LEV(Low Emissions Vehicle). It was down 1hp.


Slapped on a CAI and got it back...

Razorecko
07-17-09, 01:59 PM
How do you know which Compliancy your V was built for ?

4gear70
07-17-09, 02:56 PM
How do you know which Compliancy your V was built for ?

Check the SPID (Service Parts ID) label which is located in the trunk under the spare tire cover. It lists all the RPO (Regular Production Option) codes to identfy the options that your specific vehicle was built with. See if you find a YF5 code on the label. I don't show this on my car label but it's not a California car.

Just a guess but I'm wondering if perhaps tuning may be slightly different for California cars. ie. CAGS kicks in more often etc. and not really much different in the way of WOT performance.
BTW, according to the Service Manual, YF5 code is Certification,- Emission, California. Could it be that this is just a 'stamp' of approval that it passes California emission laws even though nothing is different on the vehicle?

ewill3rd
07-17-09, 07:31 PM
They are all 50 state cars and meet USA EPA Federal and CA standards.
No V has a "smog pump".
(they don't pump smog by the way, they pump air, and they only do it for 2 minutes on a cold start up but since it doesn't have one what does it matter?)

Mikels
07-17-09, 09:10 PM
Just so you know....

CTSV's use same calibrations for all 50 states. Use same hardware as well. Make same rated power.

Difference is emission standards that are tested and validated to for certification purposes ONLY. That's it. Nothing more.

BTW - there are many 'me too' states that have or are adapting California emission requirements.

ctsv5005
07-17-09, 09:21 PM
mine is export vehicle for middle east. it has different specs for sure, is it slower too? :-(

AuPanda
07-17-09, 09:55 PM
:yeah:
Just so you know....

CTSV's use same calibrations for all 50 states. Use same hardware as well. Make same rated power.

Difference is emission standards that are tested and validated to for certification purposes ONLY. That's it. Nothing more.

BTW - there are many 'me too' states that have or are adapting California emission requirements.

:yeah::yeah:

superbad_austin
11-25-09, 03:22 PM
Interesting thread. So I have a quick question for you guys. I'm bidding on a 2009 CTS-V from the east coast. I'm currently living in California. I spoke with the local caddy dealer to see if they would cut me a deal on a new car and he threw out that "FE9 coded vehicles cannot be registered in california". Now I am completely skeptical and thought he was blowing smoke to get me to buy through him. Did a little research and sure enough I see the YF5 coding for california cars as an option. So while I still think this is bunk to get me to buy a local car they have me spooked.

From the comments here it looks like others have bought FE9 vehicles and had them registered in cali. Can you share the details please? Do I simply need to pass emissions testing or do I need a sticker on the engine compartmart saying I'm california certified? When I registered my M3 when I moved from out of state they checked for a sticker in the engine compartment at the DMV in addition to requiring me to pass emissions testing.

God I love this california crap.

Thanks for your help.

Gary Wells
11-25-09, 03:57 PM
When contemplating buying a new '09 CTS-V out of state about 4 months ago, several dealers told me that at the worst I would have to pass Kali smog.
I am sure that you will get other peeps on here with a more definitive response. HTH.

09BlackV
11-25-09, 06:37 PM
I saw a report today from GM that the YF5 emissions on the V.. make the cars slower.

More emission equipment.. smog pump is different, PCM, Convertors, Fuel Pump.

Makes a slower car in testing. all the mags test did tests on FE9 Cars..

How can you tell what model your 09 V is? (FE9 vs YF5) ? If it is a YF5 and I don't live in CA any way to convert it to the faster FE9??

Thanks

Gary Wells
11-25-09, 07:46 PM
I think they are virtually identical with different certifications. I don't think that one is faster than the other.

09BlackV
11-25-09, 09:49 PM
I found a YF5 along with all the other codes in my trunk.

cbloveday
11-25-09, 11:29 PM
I got an FE9 as well.

Tony407
11-26-09, 02:50 AM
Sounds like we're getting conflicting information about whether the CA spec cars are slower and/or have different emission equipment installed. The only person that has posted here that has credentials is the original poster, Superior Cadillac. The other would be Wait4Me, but he didn't offer any information either way. Can anyone else that's offered contradictory information please tell us why you would have more accurate information than a very trusted and respected vendor who's sold quite a few Vs to many of us on this forum.

And if anyone still has questions as to how to find out what spec car they have, it's on page 3 of this thread.

Tony

GMX322V S/C
11-26-09, 03:37 AM
I suspect that forum poster Mikels, by the nature of his posts (see #24 in this thread, for example), is Dave Mikels, the powertrain integration engineer for our CTS-V. Though he did not respond to my PM to confirm or deny, search for his other posts and judge for yourself...

OldRoadDawg
11-26-09, 11:49 AM
^^^^...... Concur

Good info included within many of his previous posts
Now if we don't spook him away

09BlackV
11-26-09, 01:35 PM
So who is correct? Mikels or Superior?

jvp
11-26-09, 01:43 PM
I got an FE9 as well.

Interesting. One of the potential buyers of my V asked me about the tag, so I took a pic of it and emailed it to him.

http://pics.lateapex.net/options-tag.jpg

I don't see FE9 or YF5 on there.

jas

Gary Wells
11-26-09, 02:08 PM
It is possible that Scott of Superior either heard or read what he posted and believing it to correct, posted in good faith. I do not believe it to be correct. Throughout this thread, and others, people have posted that to register their car if it did not have the Republik of Kali correct smog certification sticker, they put their car through smog, and all was well. Quite a few people have posted that they have reason to believe that the dar all meet the same smog requirement standards, they are just certified differently. There is at least one bonafide hiccup in Scott's statement, and that is regarding the smog pump, of which there isn't one. Several people on other threads have posted that the cars are the same. I am not dissing Scott in any way, manner, or fashion, but I believe that his original post is incorrect. Just my $.02 worth, and that's before taxes, too. Sorry for the long post.

GM-4-LIFE
11-26-09, 02:46 PM
After doing my own diligent research, I have come to the final conclusion that there is absolutely no difference between an FE9, NE1 or YF5 ordered vehicle. YF5 is just to satisfy California. There are no equipment or software calibrations that are any different from an FE9, NE1 or YF5 ordered vehicle.

No matter how you order the car, it will pass California smog standards. From my research, I have also found that every GM vehicle manufactured from the 2001 model year and later is a 50 state vehicle, so don't worry. You can buy any new GM vehicle, bring it in to California and it will pass smog and it can be registered. Trust me, I have done it at least 5 or more times in the past 10 years and California DMV has no problem with it.

Hope this helps!

SG

tedcmiller
11-26-09, 10:21 PM
I have to agree with Gary Wells. There is no air pump on the CTS-V. Never has been - V1 or V2. My option sticker on the underside of the wheel well cover (which has no wheel in it) says FE9. My car was sent to NC and purchased there.

ewill3rd
11-27-09, 07:58 AM
I have actually seen some Cadis that were not 50 state certified but that was a couple of years ago.
I think the Escalade was the only hold out, but the rest of them I know are 50 state.

As stated earlier the YF5 is probably just to designate that the car was actually ordered by a CA dealer but there is no difference in equipment or calibrations.
Regarding that photo... dude, resize!! :lol:

cbloveday
11-27-09, 08:09 AM
Optional Equipment

2009 Cadillac CTS-V 4dr Sedan (6.2L 8cyl S/C 6M)


Option Code Option Name and Description

B18 Wood Trim Package
Includes real Midnight Sapele wood on door trim, console and instrument panel.

W2E Recaro Seats
Includes Recaro performance 14-way heated and ventilated front seats with pneumatic bolsters and metal performance pedals. NOT AVAILABLE with Ebony w/Cashmere Inserts.
UAV AM/FM Radio w/CD/DVD Player and Navigation
Includes AM/FM radio with CD/DVD player, MP3 playback, Radio Data System (RDS), USB with audio connectivity, 40GB hard drive device (HDD) and HDD-based navigation system with XM NavTraffic/Real Time Weather and 8" pop-up screen.
-- Gas Guzzler Tax
Includes gas guzzler tax increase when Automatic Transmission is selected. REQUIRES MX0.

C3U UltraView Sunroof
Includes double-sized power glass sunroof with express open, tilt-slide and power sunshade.

P80 19" Polished Aluminum Wheels
Includes 19" x 9" front and 19" x 9.5" rear polished aluminum wheels.

N45 Sueded Rim Steering Wheel
Includes suede on steering wheel and shift knob. REQUIRES W2E.

K05 Engine Block Heater

NB9 Emissions Override
Allows a California dealer (YF5 emissions) to order (NE1) emissions with (NB9) emissions override code for registration in (NE1) states; or, a Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington dealer (NE1 emissions) to order (YF5) emissions with (NB9) emissions override code for registration in California.

NE1 Northeast Emissions Requirements
Includes emissions controls for vehicles sold in Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington.

NB8 Emissions Override
Includes emissions controls for vehicles sold in California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Washington. For vehicles ordered by dealers in states of California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Washington with Federal emissions. REQUIRES FE9.

YF5 California Emissions Requirements
Includes emissions controls for vehicles sold in California.

MX0 Automatic Transmission
Includes 6-speed automatic transmission, steering wheel mounted paddle shift controls and remote engine start. Deletes Gas Guzzler Tax. REQUIRES Gas Guzzler Tax.

FE9 Federal Emissions Requirements
Includes emissions controls for vehicles sold nationwide.

NC7 Emissions Override
For Vehicles ordered by dealers in Federal emission states with California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont emissions. May also be used by dealers in states of California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont to order different state-specific emissions. REQUIRES YF5 or NE1.

VK3 Front License Plate Bracket
Included for required states (no charge option).

ewill3rd
11-27-09, 08:59 AM
Oh and you can register any US EPA emissions vehicle in CA, it just can't be a new one if it is bought out of state.
I forget the mileage requirement but if it is a new car it has to have so many miles on it before it can be registered.

They used to charge a "smog impact fee" for out of state vehicles but they determined it was essentially illegal and they had to refund the money.
People are always under the mistaken impression that vehicles must meed CA emissions standards to be in CA, but that isn't so.
You just have to meet the production emissions standards.

GM-4-LIFE
11-27-09, 01:16 PM
Oh and you can register any US EPA emissions vehicle in CA, it just can't be a new one if it is bought out of state.
I forget the mileage requirement but if it is a new car it has to have so many miles on it before it can be registered.

They used to charge a "smog impact fee" for out of state vehicles but they determined it was essentially illegal and they had to refund the money.
People are always under the mistaken impression that vehicles must meed CA emissions standards to be in CA, but that isn't so.
You just have to meet the production emissions standards.

According to the California DMV, the car has to have at least 7,500 miles on it before you can register a vehicle from a manufacturer that doesn't have the 50 state emissions certification.

SG