: Top Tier Gasoline



KARL DAHLEN
07-07-09, 12:38 PM
FYI: http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html

EChas3
07-07-09, 01:41 PM
I am surprised to see Qwik Trip on the list. I have received poor fuel from several of their stations and now refuse to use it.:eek:

Fortunately, I find Tri-Par on the list and they are the closest to my home.:thumbsup:

KARL DAHLEN
07-07-09, 04:13 PM
I have been using Shell exclusively for the past 6 months and I do notice a difference in my MPG!

WillySTS
07-07-09, 04:18 PM
FYI: http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html

#04-06-04-047H: TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power, Performance, Stall Concerns) - U.S. Only - (Jun 24, 2008)


http://gsi.xw.gm.com/image_en_us/gif/000/999/999/999999995.gif
Subject:TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power, Performance, Stall Concerns) - U.S. Only

WillySTS
07-07-09, 04:20 PM
Here is the rest of it.
Gasoline Brands That Currently Meet TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Standards
As of November 15, 2006, all grades of the following gasoline brands meet the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Standards:

• Chevron

• Chevron-Canada

• QuikTrip

• Conoco

• Phillips 66

• 76

• Shell

• Shell-Canada

• Entec Stations located in the greater Montgomery, Alabama area.

• MFA Oil Company located throughout Missouri.

• Kwik Trip, Inc. in Minnesota and Wisconsin and Kwik Star convenience stores in Iowa.

• The Somerset Refinery, Inc. at Somerset Oil stations in Kentucky.

• Aloha Petroleum

• Tri-Par Oil Company

• Turkey Hill Minit Markets

• Texaco

• Petro-Canada

• Sunoco-Canada

What is TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a new class of gasoline with enhanced detergency. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards developed by six automotive companies that exceed the detergent requirements imposed by the EPA.

Where Can TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Be Purchased?
The TOP TIER program began on May 3, 2004 and many fuel marketers have joined the program and have introduced TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline. This is a voluntary program and not all fuel marketers will offer this product. Once fuel marketers make public announcements, they will appear on a list of brands that meet the TOP TIER standards.

Where Can I find the Latest Information on TOP TIER Fuel and Retailers?
On the web, please visit www.toptiergas.com for additional information and updated retailer lists.

Who developed TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards were developed by six automotive companies: Audi, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen.

Why was TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline developed?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline was developed to increase the level of detergent additive in gasoline. The EPA requires that all gasoline sold in the U.S. contain a detergent additive. However, the requirement is minimal and in many cases, is not sufficient to keep engines clean. In order to meet TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards, a higher level of detergent is needed than what is required by the EPA. Also, TOP TIER was developed to give fuel marketers the opportunity to differentiate their product.

Why did the six automotive companies join together to develop TOP TIER?
All six corporations recognized the benefits to both the vehicle and the consumer. Also, joining together emphasized that low detergency is an issue of concern to several automotive companies.

What are the benefits of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help keep engines cleaner than gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" set by the EPA. Clean engines help provide optimal fuel economy and performance and reduced emissions. Also, use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help reduce deposit related concerns.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

MacMuse
07-08-09, 08:01 AM
FYI - toptiergas.com is owned by GM.

rb92gt
07-09-09, 07:49 AM
Not to burst any bubbles, but you can't trust that the fuel your getting has anything to do with the name on the gas station, independent owners can buy gas from whoever they like. My dad owned a gas station in the past, this is how I know. You can trust that 93 is better than 87 though.

Submariner409
07-09-09, 09:05 AM
The blanket statement that "93 is better than 87" is false. The grades are blended to do a proper job in the engines tuned for each. An engine tuned to run efficiently on 87 will run no better on 93, while an engine tuned to run on 93 will NOT run well on 87 (unless the engine control system has a knock sensor, in which case you DO lose performance due to the ignition timing retard, and an engine so equipped and tuned to run on 87 will NOT advance timing to take advantage of the slower-burning 93.)

Just for grins, Google "chevron techron" and read up on what makes a "top tier" gasoline. Ford never signed on to the idea, as they still recommend BP gasolines.

Watch the Shell stations. Every so often they have a credit card offer with Citi MasterCard in which you get a 10% rebate on Shell gas for the first 6 months of the card's use, then 5% as long as you keep the card. 10% of a $2.499 gallon is 25 cents per gallon kickback each month.

WillySTS
07-09-09, 10:48 AM
Just for grins, Google "chevron techron" and read up on what makes a "top tier" gasoline. Ford never signed on to the idea, as they still recommend BP gasolines.



It says in the bulletin I pasted on this thread...it's only the amount of "cleaner" used that makes the difference...nothing else.

As for Ford...you can't even trust the tires on a Ford, how you gonna trust what gasoline they recommend?...:thehand:

next2pool
07-09-09, 11:27 AM
[QUOTE=submariner409;1934109]The blanket statement that "93 is better than 87" is false. The grades are blended to do a proper job in the engines tuned for each. An engine tuned to run efficiently on 87 will run no better on 93, while an engine tuned to run on 93 will NOT run well on 87 (unless the engine control system has a knock sensor, in which case you DO lose performance due to the ignition timing retard, and an engine so equipped and tuned to run on 87 will NOTQUOTE]

I'll go even further to say that an engine tuned to run on 87 will Not run as well on 93. Higher octane slows the rate of fuel burn--so in the end, it will have the same effect of further retarding timing on a vehicle that runs just fine on 87.

KARL DAHLEN
07-09-09, 12:16 PM
The blanket statement that "93 is better than 87" is false. The grades are blended to do a proper job in the engines tuned for each. An engine tuned to run efficiently on 87 will run no better on 93, while an engine tuned to run on 93 will NOT run well on 87 (unless the engine control system has a knock sensor, in which case you DO lose performance due to the ignition timing retard, and an engine so equipped and tuned to run on 87 will NOT advance timing to take advantage of the slower-burning 93.)

Just for grins, Google "chevron techron" and read up on what makes a "top tier" gasoline. Ford never signed on to the idea, as they still recommend BP gasolines.

Watch the Shell stations. Every so often they have a credit card offer with Citi MasterCard in which you get a 10% rebate on Shell gas for the first 6 months of the card's use, then 5% as long as you keep the card. 10% of a $2.499 gallon is 25 cents per gallon kickback each month.

I agree that many off-brand independent stations sell whatever gas they can get the cheapest from the local terminal, however I now think that company owned branded stations like Shell DO sell their own gas. You are right on about the grade analysis - no sense in wasting money on a higher grade than your engine needs. Around here, shell offers a 5 cent discount on thursday on all grades. I just filled up at $2.31 gal 87 Octane.

EChas3
07-09-09, 12:32 PM
Due to EPA findings unrelated to local automobile emissions in 1990, our legislators in Madison (100 miles West) passed a bill requiring a specific reformulated blend of gas in Southeastern Wisconsin. We know only a few refineries make this blend because periodic supply difficulties (plant closings for maintenance or pipeline interuptions) have an immediate affect on our prices (always approaching national highs). It sounds right that the essential differences between gasoline at various stations is the additive package. Probably added by the station owner.

I think I heard a year ago that there are over 100 diferent blends used in the US. Sure, some make sense (winter/summer/elevation/etc.) But 100's?

Submariner409
07-09-09, 12:41 PM
:sneaky: Karl, Yep, our Shell stations do the 5 cents off Thursday thing also. The car went this morning, the truck will go shopping and gas this PM.

Until my Shell/Citi card drops to 5% rebate on the 24th I get around .28 off per gallon on Thursdays. Not too shabby.

BUT, I just went to Western Auto and blew a bunch of bucks on Pennzoil Platinum and WIX filters for the car and truck. Easy come, easy go.......

WillySTS
07-09-09, 01:50 PM
Due to EPA findings unrelated to local automobile emissions in 1990, our legislators in Madison (100 miles West) passed a bill requiring a specific reformulated blend of gas in Southeastern Wisconsin. We know only a few refineries make this blend because periodic supply difficulties (plant closings for maintenance or pipeline interuptions) have an immediate affect on our prices (always approaching national highs). It sounds right that the essential differences between gasoline at various stations is the additive package. Probably added by the station owner.

I think I heard a year ago that there are over 100 diferent blends used in the US. Sure, some make sense (winter/summer/elevation/etc.) But 100's?:bonkers:

I hear ya...thats California gas your talkin' about...we can't even get 93 octane,:crying2: our highest is 91 octane. On top of that, Southern Kali(where I live) goes back and forth between Summer gas,(march to october) and winter gas.

On the "in-station mixing", no station owner that I've ever met or worked for did it,:hmm: but I've only worked for 2 Shell stations and a Texaco back in the days when they had a "Mechanic on Duty". And no one makes 89 octane. 89 octane is made in the station by the pump drawing from both tanks(premium and regular).

C&C
07-09-09, 03:20 PM
Additive packages are added at the terminal (where the trucks get the bulk gasoline). Pretty sure this is how it works.

Here you go: http://www.ask.com/bar?q=additive+packages+added+to+gasoline&page=1&qsrc=2106&ab=9&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eia.doe.gov%2Fbookshelf%2Fbroch ures%2Fgasoline%2Findex.html

rb92gt
07-09-09, 09:17 PM
You're right, I shouldn't have said 93 is "better" than 87, but rather more refined. Whatever your car is meant to run on is best for your car. I was just trying to say that you can trust you are getting 93 octane more than you can trust you are getting a particular brand of gasoline. Trucks fill up at ports with fuel that they can get deals on... certain companies add additives, but there is no magic with the brand name.

EChas3
07-10-09, 02:50 PM
... no one makes 89 octane. 89 octane is made in the station by the pump drawing from both tanks(premium and regular).

While this may be true in many areas, in cannot be so in South Dakota. During my recent vacation the grades were Regular Unleaded (E0), Mid-grade (E10) at $.10 less than Regular and Premium (E0) at $.20 more than Regular . Ethyl Alcohol was only added to the Mid-grade. At normal elevations, octanes were 87, 89 & 93 (respectively). In the Black Hills, octanes were 85, 87 & 91.

To do the mixing you describe while dispensing wouldn't work for them. No wonder there are so many blends! Remember Sunoco's 87-105 (or whatever) pumps?

By the way, Wisconsin politicians have finally admitted that they can't increase taxes on oil companies while prohibiting them from passing such taxes to consumers. So, they just deleted that provision from the law. The taxing will remain!

Another long-standing law in Wisconsin prohibits gas stations from selling gas below the market price, so we never have gas wars. When a station does lower their price, their competitors can complain to the state and get them fined!

The weather is nice but Global Warming (sic) has eliminated our two weeks of Summer.

Enjoy!