: King of the Super Sedans



Low_ET
07-03-09, 11:32 AM
Road and Track just did a comparison test between the CTS-V and the 2010 Jaguar XFR (August 2009 issue). See it at:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=8146

My favorite quotes from the article:

"it's impressive that the Jag stays as close to the Caddy as it does."

"The CTS-V won every Performance category save fuel economy"

"... the CTS-V is the new super sedan king. And at a bargain price, we might add."

Hondarrr
07-03-09, 11:43 AM
Road and Track just did a comparison test between the CTS-V and the 2010 Jaguar XFR (August 2009 issue). See it at:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=8146

My favorite quotes from the article:

"it's impressive that the Jag stays as close to the Caddy as it does."

"The CTS-V won every Performance category save fuel economy"

"... the CTS-V is the new super sedan king. And at a bargain price, we might add."

That looks like a paid advertising from jag.......:tisk:

RWFJR
07-03-09, 11:44 AM
And this pretty much described why I bought a V2.:thumbsup:

Cadillac Tony
07-03-09, 01:35 PM
Great write up- thanks for posting.

Surprising to see another reviewer who didn't like the Recaro seats. That's several people now (including customers) who I've found that prefer the standard seat.

SlvrBullIT
07-03-09, 01:48 PM
I've ridden in a CTS with standard seats and my CTS-V with Recaro's, each have their purpose but I like my recaro's better. To each their own.

thebigjimsho
07-03-09, 03:50 PM
Great write up- thanks for posting.

Surprising to see another reviewer who didn't like the Recaro seats. That's several people now (including customers) who I've found that prefer the standard seat.
None of this subliminal crap, Tony. You will find me my V with Recaros...

vperl
07-03-09, 03:57 PM
I've ridden in a CTS with standard seats and my CTS-V with Recaro's, each have their purpose but I like my recaro's better. To each their own.

**********************************

did you know that makes my Radiant Silver faster, because I have regular
seats, do not have to wait for the seats to blow up.


jags are for the euro snobs, I am a Norta Americano snob

V's are for real Americans, supporting America. But if someone from
some place else wants one, we will be proud to offer you a V2 and in that you help us Americans, thanks to all.

Tony407
07-03-09, 04:08 PM
Yes, it's a great article.

This has already been posted here: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/173096-xf-r-vs-cts-v.html
And there's a lengthy discussion going on about it.

There's also quite the stir going on at one of the Jag forums:

http://xfforum.com/community/index.php?topic=2921.0

Tony

Tony407
07-03-09, 04:20 PM
**********************************

did you know that makes my Radiant Silver faster, because I have regular
seats, do not have to wait for the seats to blow up.


jags are for the euro snobs, I am a Norta Americano snob

V's are for real Americans, supporting America. But if someone from
some place else wants one, we will be proud to offer you a V2 and in that you help us Americans, thanks to all.

Do you have "euro snobs" on your keyboard hotlist or something? Can you not let a single post go by without you using this phrase?

Your attitude and ignorance (it's Norte Americano, not Norta) only exasperates the stereotype that we over here in the U.S. think we're better than everyone else.

I for one would like to remove myself from any association with you as you seem to keep embarrassing yourself over and over with your senseless and useless rantings that contribute nothing to our conversations.

Tony

RWFJR
07-03-09, 04:31 PM
Right ON Tony...

62Jeff
07-03-09, 04:35 PM
There's also quite the stir going on at one of the Jag forums:

http://xfforum.com/community/index.php?topic=2921.0

Tony

I loved my XK8, and would have kept it when I got the CTS-V except for the 305 days it was in the shop over the 3,148 days (and 33,000 miles) I owned it.

kencav
07-03-09, 06:13 PM
Just went on the jag forum to see response- plenty of American POS and ugly comments- hope we stay away from these type of exchanges

Bottom line is to each his own- but you cannot deny the fact that $4000.00 on this car from one of our vendors puts 100 CHP/75RWHP AT LEAST on a car with handling characteristics that set the lap record at "some race track" in Germany

Tony thanks for representing CTS-V owners with class on that Jag forum- as opposed to some of our members who come off sounding like Rod Steigers crazy American general from the movie "Mars Attacks"

neuronbob
07-03-09, 06:22 PM
Great article. Once again, we win against a far more expensive car.

I have not seen a single negative review on this car yet. I mean, not even one. That's pretty remarkable for any car, let alone an American car.

The XF-R is STILL a hot car, though. So pretty to look at....so fast..... :drool: Their owners get a tip of the hat from me.

Tony407
07-03-09, 06:24 PM
Just went on the jag forum to see response- plenty of American POS and ugly comments- hope we stay away from these type of exchanges

Bottom line is to each his own- but you cannot deny the fact that $4000.00 on this car from one of our vendors puts 100 CHP/75RWHP AT LEAST on a car with handling characteristics that set the lap record at "some race track" in Germany

Tony thanks for representing CTS-V owners with class on that Jag forum- as opposed to some of our members who come off sounding like Rod Steigers crazy American general from the movie "Mars Attacks"

I've found most of the members of the Jag forum to be very respectful of American cars, with a few exceptions. There are a lot of members there from the UK and other countries, but the number of American Jaguar owners are growing due to the popularity of the XF over here on this side of the ocean. I'm not sure how some of the old-timer Jaguar owners feel about a younger, more expressive crowd of owners now that Jaguar has been attracting a different kind of buyer. It can be interesting at times.

In general, I've noticed that the XF Forum members are older and sometimes more selective when complaining about their cars, bashing other brands, or just making asses of themselves like many other car forums I've belonged to in the past. It's a fairly agreeable and friendly crowd.

Having said all this, I have to say I've enjoyed being a member of this forum very much so far!!

Tony

wfo
07-03-09, 06:26 PM
Relax Tony. It's part of the Forums entertainment value for some of us.

vperl
07-03-09, 06:30 PM
Do you have "euro snobs" on your keyboard hotlist or something? Can you not let a single post go by without you using this phrase?

Your attitude and ignorance (it's Norte Americano, not Norta) only exasperates the stereotype that we over here in the U.S. think we're better than everyone else.

I for one would like to remove myself from any association with you as you seem to keep embarrassing yourself over and over with your senseless and useless rantings that contribute nothing to our conversations.

Tony
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

not a bad idea, I suspect many will follow you.


Sorry to be a American in an Anti=American bunch.

I am proud to be for American steel, and BTW yes.. we are better....

What other country has sacrificed more since 1776 to try to keep the world free for democracy?

I am guilty. The others follow our lead and we spend billions and get nothing but hate in defending both sides....


Thanks for the separtation, your loss.

Tony407
07-03-09, 06:38 PM
Relax Tony. It's part of the Forums entertainment value for some of us.

True. Very true. Thanks.

Tony

vperl
07-03-09, 06:56 PM
I understand and except how Skin thinned many are and usually just expect the stamping of feet and whining.
I did mention I am a Notre American snob, to level the playing field, but I guess the "a" instead of the " e" confused some

Happy 4th.... to all Whoops, that is an American...... sorry to those that take offense and feel different

Caddyscat
07-03-09, 07:21 PM
Those who don't like the Recaro's are the one's that don't know how to adjust them right, or are so bloody fat, they simply don't fit in 'em. I wouldn't have mine any other way.

The Jag's interior is pretty sweet too, not much plastic visible.

Gotham CTS-V
07-03-09, 07:21 PM
I've had both Americans and Euros. I never get a car based on where its from. I get the car for what it is. If its made in America, then God bless (suporting the US is always a good thing) and if its Euro, then cool too!

62Jeff
07-03-09, 07:30 PM
Those who don't like the Recaro's are the one's that don't know how to adjust them right, or are so bloody fat, they simply don't fit in 'em.

I'm glad you like yours.

I weigh 160 lbs. No matter how many ways I adjusted the Recaros, the lower lumbar was always in a bad spot under every possible adjustment over the 10 days that I owned a Recaro-based CTS-V. I'm just happy that my dealer let me return it, cancelled my purchase, and then sold me a different CTS-V with normal seats.

thebigjimsho
07-03-09, 08:25 PM
I understand and except how Skin thinned many are and usually just expect the stamping of feet and whining.
I did mention I am a Notre American snob, to level the playing field, but I guess the "a" instead of the " e" confused some

Happy 4th.... to all Whoops, that is an American...... sorry to those that take offense and feel different
I'm American and know how to spell accept...

thebigjimsho
07-03-09, 08:26 PM
And I buy the best car, no matter if it's American or not. Hooray for vperl, American cars are actually worth a damn now...

vperl
07-03-09, 08:30 PM
I'm American and know how to spell accept...

*************************************888

I am so sorry that I failed your test, I will try harder.
Do not remember saying I was perfect, just a guy making mistakes, and owning up to them..... i before e or what ever....

Thanks

thebigjimsho
07-03-09, 08:59 PM
i before diot?

vperl
07-03-09, 09:05 PM
i before diot?

*****************************************

now that is indeed funny.......



:fwll::nanaparty::nanaparty:

thebigjimsho
07-03-09, 09:13 PM
tehehehe

a good Friday night laugh...

vperl
07-03-09, 09:28 PM
tehehehe

a good Friday night laugh...


******************************************

you like my kitty ? A better dancer than you, it is reported

SlvrBullIT
07-03-09, 09:42 PM
Do you have "euro snobs" on your keyboard hotlist or something? Can you not let a single post go by without you using this phrase?

Your attitude and ignorance (it's Norte Americano, not Norta) only exasperates the stereotype that we over here in the U.S. think we're better than everyone else.

I for one would like to remove myself from any association with you as you seem to keep embarrassing yourself over and over with your senseless and useless rantings that contribute nothing to our conversations.

Tony

Interesting.....



The biggest trouble with the CTS is it's UGLY and its American. That alone sentences it to be an 'also ran' in the rest of the world.
I've never heard anyone say a caddy looked beautiful, but they sure do with the XF!



:hmm:

SlvrBullIT
07-03-09, 09:46 PM
^^^^^
and your giving us "grief" about calling out euro snobbery......
(Pulled that little ditty from their forum)

SlvrBullIT
07-03-09, 09:48 PM
More snobbery.....


No, it's still ugly, but not 'throw up in your mouth' ugly, now.
The styling is awful. Confused, with lines going every which way and multiple angular, mal-arranged shapes without theme or purpose.
I couldn't even say its 'quirky' like a Citroen. Just ugly.
Sorry.

SlvrBullIT
07-03-09, 09:49 PM
and more.....


I think you are being too nice......... I think the CTS-V is Ugly


Shall I go on.....

SlvrBullIT
07-03-09, 09:51 PM
Ohhhhh.... the dreadful Americans and their primitive wwaysss....


We have an author who is focused on a manual transmission, micro-differences in physical measurements, and vehicle price obviously leaning for the CTS. The question should be, if people looking for high-end sports sedans could chose one of these two as a gift, which one would it be?

If you step back and look at the article as a whole, it was essentially a tie despite some of the higher objective dynamic marks achieved by the CTS.

So, another way of reading this article's conclusion is that despite higher dynamic numbers measured for the CTS and its substantially lower price, one out of two still preferred the XFR. Conclusion, as a total package and appeal, the XFR leads.

And I hope I'm not being rude, this comparison is rather idiotic. A CTS is rarely on the radar of those looking for a high-end luxury sport's sedan perhaps other than as a second choice cheaper American alternative to an XFR, M5, Quattroporte, E6 series,etc. That is just the reality.

vperl
07-03-09, 10:11 PM
Silver bullet,
I have read their stuff on their forums... nasty stuff....... but never use that term...... they dislike the fact we like our V2 and if they want to buy what they buy, fine with me... but tell the truth.... much like that race.... with the M5 .. they claimed they run when you can see the brake lights on the V2 when the M5 get going..... the race was over.....

But .. who cares who won, I care more about people being honest ..... do not deny they are prejudiced, I am prejudiced to American steel... sorry about that.

I even rread another review about the 2SS Camaro, seems R&T is not the sole reviewer
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/NewCars/Review/2000004090_2010_Chevrolet_Camaro.aspx?BTContext=Is InInventoryDMA

SlvrBullIT
07-03-09, 10:29 PM
When talking about getting "whatever" based on status = Snobbery.... It's the truth, so truth was spoken... if it hurts, get a thicker skin I tell them. Heard the same stuff when I was on the boats from their sub sailors.... Oh how dreadful the LA class is, our Trafalgar class is so ...supeeerrriiiooouuurrrr. And we proceed to put mk48 adcaps up their....*ah hem* BUMS Or their superior FBM's, so superior they run into the frenchies boat. Regardless, V wins..... euro.....What have you, loses nuff said.

vperl
07-03-09, 11:04 PM
When talking about getting "whatever" based on status = Snobbery.... It's the truth, so truth was spoken... if it hurts, get a thicker skin I tell them. Heard the same stuff when I was on the boats from their sub sailors.... Oh how dreadful the LA class is, our Trafalgar class is so ...supeeerrriiiooouuurrrr. And we proceed to put mk48 adcaps up their....*ah hem* BUMS Or their superior FBM's, so superior they run into the frenchies boat. Regardless, V wins..... euro.....What have you, loses nuff said.

*********************************************

So you silverB. was a squid....... I forgive you.
How were your lattes, ever goto WestLocke (spelling wrong) in your shippy poo ? ( Sorry, it's in my DNA to give squids a bad time)

marktanner
07-03-09, 11:26 PM
I find the issue of the seats to be very interesting. My V has the Recaro's, and I find them to be VERY comfortable. Everyone who gets in the car immediately says "nice seats", without prompting, and much more often than any other car I have ever owned. It did take a while to adjust them properly, and as delivered they were not good at all. Either the testers did not take the time to adjust the seats properly, or maybe something wasn't quite right with them. The editors at Motor Trend had similar comments, and it looks like both magazines tested the same car. I drove an '08 CTS for 15 months, and while the standard seats weren't bad, they were never as comfortable as the Recaro's, plus their lateral support is much less.

I test drove a Jag XFR last weekend, and spent a lot of time adjusting the seat, but never found a comfortable position. My friend, who is also looking at the V, had the same comment. Perhaps more fiddling would improve things, but I disliked the seats on the standard XF, as well. The Jag's interior IS very nicely and expensively finished, as well it should for the price. I was surprised that they rated the Jag superior in ergonomics, though. The Caddy controls may appear daunting at first, but they are logically arranged, and less controls are buried in the touch-screen than the Jag. Many of the other controls on the Jag, while good looking, are haphazardly placed IMO. Important driving functions that you want fast and easy access to, such as the transmission mode, and the suspension and traction control settings, are more easily accessed in the Caddy. The rotary transmission "fob" seems especially unnatural to me.

I'm not bashing the Jag, because I think it's a really fine car. If I wanted a rapid gentleman's cruiser and was willing to pay for the finer level of furnishings, I would probably get one. But if I were doing the scoring at Road and Track, the point spread would be even higher in favor of the V. There IS a slightly harder edge in the V, but that yields palpably and measurably superior performance, and makes it a superior driver's tool. THAT is what's important to me, and the lower price is just icing on the cake (and very much appreciated).

vperl
07-04-09, 09:45 AM
It is interesting to see what others have to say about the V2 that are not so thin-skinned about their vehicles... http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/general-lsx-automobile-discussion/1093872-09-cts-v-new-era-performance-2.html

SlvrBullIT
07-04-09, 12:29 PM
Elegance and grace is elegance and grace... no need to elevate one, then demagogue another... it's just plain un-gentleman like.

vperl
07-04-09, 12:57 PM
Elegance and grace is elegance and grace... no need to elevate one, then demagogue another... it's just plain un-gentleman like.

********************************

I plead guilty, do not hate me, I will use the twinkie defense (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7DKUS&ei=polPStrVJ4SksgOg-ciqDQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=twinkie+defense&spell=1) as my excuse..

SlvrBullIT
07-04-09, 03:20 PM
lol :D

tbss08
07-04-09, 03:41 PM
I've ridden in a V with the stock seats, I'm glad I have the Recaro's. Very comfortable seats. I rode about 14 hours total in one day with no discomfort and best of all no pain in my lower back like I used to get with a long drive in my Z06. My wife even comments how well she likes the Recaro's.

SlvrBullIT
07-04-09, 07:59 PM
Wife likes them just fine. I'm losing weight so the seats can fit me a little better, working so far, so I wasn't to grossly over weight to feel uncomfortable in the seats.

cmicasa
07-05-09, 01:35 AM
The XFR is a nice looking car no doubt.. but so is the MKS.. which I consistently liken to the XF. Not a good thing. The interior is hot tho and while I don't walk away from it thinking that it is vastly superior to my Sweetness, I will admit it's materials are probably slightly better.

But one again I find myself easily and ultimately knowing why... IT COSTS ALMOST $20K more!!! http://www.invisionplus.net/forums/html/emoticons/blink.gif

That's about $20K more for about $500 more for an interior upgrade and similar performance to the M5, a car well known to give up it's lunch to the "KING V":worship:

neuronbob
07-05-09, 08:21 AM
"Eees good to be the king."

The V's greatest strength, as I keep saying, is that it's a quality product with top-of-the-line "bang for the buck". It and the Pontiac G8 GXP are prime examples of this simple concept. That's why I own a V2 and I hope GM keeps up this pattern....the "new GM" will succeed if they keep this up (and will hopefully get rid of taxpayer ownership really soon!).

adhir@qx.net
07-05-09, 08:58 AM
Well said, anonfrank. Superior products at a superior price point will eventually win the day...just like a great stock value that eventually gets recognized by the market, even if it takes a while. I'm coming to the V2 from a long history of German cars and couldn't be happier about it. I can't be the only one making the switch.

vperl
07-05-09, 04:22 PM
The beamers Mfg/ are going to be on that track in Germany trying to restore the image of their beamer, they rue the day they got beat fair and square, not only buy, a Cadillac and the performance of the V2, but by the value////

RapidRob
07-05-09, 06:10 PM
What gets me is that GM/Cadillac isn't advertising it.:hmm: They've produced this outstanding performance vehicle at an outstanding price point, and all I ever see as far as advertising is Lexus, Honda, Volvo, Ford, (and the Korean cars), adds. Last fall they did push it with a few magazine and TV adds, but that was rather brief it seems to me. They have a winner - tell people about it for gawd sake!:thumbsup:

Rob

mik2718
07-05-09, 07:01 PM
I've been seeing Kate Walsh with the CTS Sport Wagon on TV, but I don't recall any other recent GM commercials.

By comparison, I've seen quite a few print ads for the CTS family: sedan, wagon, and V.

SlvrBullIT
07-05-09, 07:03 PM
Marketing is expensive, word of mouth isn't.

neuronbob
07-05-09, 07:14 PM
No marketing?

Um, you mean other than all the positive press the V has gotten in EVERY car mag? The kind that's free simply because they made a quality product that beats everything in its class, for tens of thousands less?

Have you seen a negative review of the V2? I haven't. I mean, not even one. Even the greenies are keeping their hands off this one despite its CARB rating (you know, the green window sticker?) of 1.

Do you see ads for the M3 or M5 on TV? I haven't seen a one, ever.

I think Cadillac knows EXACTLY what it's doing with the V. It knows that people who are likely to buy supersedans are a) too busy making money to watch that much TV, b) are MORE likely to have a subscription or two to a car mag, and c) KNOW what they want to buy, and what the competition is in that class.

I don't think a TV ad is gonna make a diff, here. I'm not being a fanboy, I'm being realistic. :D In addition, every dollar that GM saves from having the V2 mentioned in the automotive enthusiast press without cost to GM is a dollar they can spend on promoting the Malibu, the Enclave, or something that sells in high volume and will remove the company from government hands.

EDIT: And I'm a HONDA guy for the most part, saying all this. That I was converted should tell you how well the "non-marketing" has worked, as the V2 has stood up to every piece of hype thrown at it.

vperl
07-05-09, 07:20 PM
I'm gunna ask a question that has been beat to death .....

:horse:



How many 09 CTS-V's have been produced. Last time no one had a clue, just speculations

Gary Wells
07-05-09, 07:36 PM
No, there was a thread maybe 3-4 weeks back where somebody, from GM, I believe, responded in the thread in which the OP inferred that the CTS-V may be discontinued shortly. The poster responded that the CTS-V was one of the mainstays of GM even with very low production #'s. I believe that the poster quoted the production #'s for the '09 CTS-V as slightly under 2000. Before his post, estimates were running as high as 5000 or so, I believe.

Gary Wells
07-05-09, 07:55 PM
OK, so I can't remember #'s very well.
Scott Partt at Superior posted recently that he had heard that the production #'s for the CTS-V were 3700.

I did find this post, that might give us some idea:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/169944-cts-v-discontinued-3.html#post1882886

vperl
07-05-09, 08:05 PM
That sneaky Scott Partt

thebigjimsho
07-05-09, 09:32 PM
He heard 3700?

Gary Wells
07-05-09, 09:45 PM
He heard 3700?
Yes, I believe that's what his statement was.

vperl
07-06-09, 10:27 PM
So, as I stated, no one has figures that can be actually verified......

be nice to know number that is real...

OK, Scott get to work...

Tony407
07-06-09, 11:37 PM
Aren't the last few numbers of the VIN sequential? The last 4 or so? If that's true, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out who some of the first and the last of us that have purchased a V, and then do the math? I could be very wrong, but I thought that this was the way they were produced.

Tony

4gear70
07-07-09, 12:26 AM
Aren't the last few numbers of the VIN sequential? The last 4 or so? If that's true, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out who some of the first and the last of us that have purchased a V, and then do the math? I could be very wrong, but I thought that this was the way they were produced.

Tony

Yes, the last 6 digits are sequential production numbers but with other models being produced there added to the mix.. so you can't figure it out that way.

See other thread:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/167936-what-09-production-run.html

vperl
07-07-09, 02:13 AM
Yes, the last 6 digits are sequential production numbers but with other models being produced there added to the mix.. so you can't figure it out that way.

See other thread:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/167936-what-09-production-run.html

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&7
Yes, I remember that thread, that is why I was wondering if GM or some other real, actual source can be found to get us the production numbers, without speculation or rumor. Actual GM numbers

caddynoob
07-07-09, 02:59 AM
No one mentioned that the "idle at neutral" sound level is 55dbA vs 42.dbA. That is a HUGE difference, since decibel is a logarithmic unit. If that is not a typo, then the CTS-V is more than twice as noisy compared to the XFR at idle. Can that be a typo?

I personally think that the XFR is a chick magnet. I can see many of my lady friends impressed by the start up routine. They love the B&O pop-up tweeter in the Audi. The XFR two-tone London Tan interior is gorgeous, but the flashy design will probably feel dated in 5 years. The V2 interior is also very nice and will probably stand the test of time better. I do wonder what happens if the gear knob does pop up in the XFR! Jag isn't known for their reliability after all.


By the way, the whole buy American protectionist mentality isn't going to help America (and the Canadian auto industry for that matter). We just need to build better and competitive products. The CTS-V is a good example. Imagine if GM and Ford can build cars that's just as good and stylistically attractive as Honda and Toyota, and then GM and Ford sells them 10% cheaper. How many people will still choose import over domestic? I know I won't.

Rodya234
07-07-09, 07:32 AM
good


stylistically attractive


Honda




:pwn:

vperl
07-07-09, 10:20 AM
No one mentioned that the "idle at neutral" sound level is 55dbA vs 42.dbA. That is a HUGE difference, since decibel is a logarithmic unit. If that is not a typo, then the CTS-V is more than twice as noisy compared to the XFR at idle. Can that be a typo?

I personally think that the XFR is a chick magnet. I can see many of my lady friends impressed by the start up routine. They love the B&O pop-up tweeter in the Audi. The XFR two-tone London Tan interior is gorgeous, but the flashy design will probably feel dated in 5 years. The V2 interior is also very nice and will probably stand the test of time better. I do wonder what happens if the gear knob does pop up in the XFR! Jag isn't known for their reliability after all.


By the way, the whole buy American protectionist mentality isn't going to help America (and the Canadian auto industry for that matter). We just need to build better and competitive products. The CTS-V is a good example. Imagine if GM and Ford can build cars that's just as good and stylistically attractive as Honda and Toyota, and then GM and Ford sells them 10% cheaper. How many people will still choose import over domestic? I know I won't.
*****************

go to the jag forum they will love what you say......

MY V2 is far more attractive to me in all sorts of ways......

but, this is the 09 CTS-V Forum

caddynoob
07-07-09, 10:43 AM
.... I do wonder what happens if the gear knob does pop up in the XFR! Jag isn't known for their reliability after all.



Clarification, I meant when the gear knob doesn't pop up.

The XF is based on the old S-type platform, so it is probably limited somewhat in terms of weight and handling. The new XJ will be revealed in two days. That should be more interesting.

Some of you need to chill a bit. I never bashed the CTS-V in my post, and I am waiting for the '10 V myself. The CTS-V is awesome, but there are other nice cars out there to appreciate. I think the XFR could be one of them.

Actually my local dealer got two recently and sold one of them already. I will go check the car out. The XFR is very reasonably priced in Canada.

thebigjimsho
07-07-09, 02:46 PM
No one mentioned that the "idle at neutral" sound level is 55dbA vs 42.dbA. That is a HUGE difference, since decibel is a logarithmic unit. If that is not a typo, then the CTS-V is more than twice as noisy compared to the XFR at idle. Can that be a typo?

I personally think that the XFR is a chick magnet. I can see many of my lady friends impressed by the start up routine. They love the B&O pop-up tweeter in the Audi. The XFR two-tone London Tan interior is gorgeous, but the flashy design will probably feel dated in 5 years. The V2 interior is also very nice and will probably stand the test of time better. I do wonder what happens if the gear knob does pop up in the XFR! Jag isn't known for their reliability after all.


By the way, the whole buy American protectionist mentality isn't going to help America (and the Canadian auto industry for that matter). We just need to build better and competitive products. The CTS-V is a good example. Imagine if GM and Ford can build cars that's just as good and stylistically attractive as Honda and Toyota, and then GM and Ford sells them 10% cheaper. How many people will still choose import over domestic? I know I won't.42 vs 55 db would be the Jag being 4+ times quieter. And no, that 42 is incorrect.

adhir@qx.net
07-07-09, 09:56 PM
Personally, I could care less if any car is a "chick magnet" (maybe it's my age?), but I know the CTS-V does much more to stir MY soul than any other sports sedan on the market, including the Jag. Interesting comment about the higher noise level at idle, because the loud, rumbly-in-my-tumbly exhaust note of the CTS-V is the coolest thing I've heard since I ran muffler bypass pipes on my 993TT (sounded like a old Chris Craft). The CTS-V is perfect in so many ways: sound, looks, handling, acceleration, braking, Recaro seats, and price point. I'm duly impressed.

caddynoob
07-07-09, 10:23 PM
Personally, I could care less if any car is a "chick magnet" (maybe it's my age?), but I know the CTS-V does much more to stir MY soul than any other sports sedan on the market, including the Jag. Interesting comment about the higher noise level at idle, because the loud, rumbly-in-my-tumbly exhaust note of the CTS-V is the coolest thing I've heard since I ran muffler bypass pipes on my 993TT (sounded like a old Chris Craft). The CTS-V is perfect in so many ways: sound, looks, handling, acceleration, braking, Recaro seats, and price point. I'm duly impressed.

Personally I find it rather pathetic when a guy needs a nice car to pull chicks. I also feel sad for the ladies that fall for that. Personally I prefer more substance in a relationship. But I can also see why some people get impressed by the more organic presentation of the XF interior. Having said that the 2nd gen CTS-V has by far the best interior that I seen in an domestic vehicle. JMHO, as interior styling is subjective to personal preference.

I think functionally, the XF interior leaves lots to be desired. One shouldn't need to go into the touch screen menu to change AC venting configuration. I also read somewhere that the radar cruise control always go by the distance and doesn't offer a more traditional fixed-speed mode.

At the end of the day, I think the 2nd gen CTS-V will go down in history as one of the best American cars. Not many people will know about the V, and probably only enthusiasts will know how good it is.

Tony407
07-08-09, 01:31 AM
I think functionally, the XF interior leaves lots to be desired. One shouldn't need to go into the touch screen menu to change AC venting configuration. I also read somewhere that the radar cruise control always go by the distance and doesn't offer a more traditional fixed-speed mode.


Having to navigate through menus was definitely time consuming.

And yes, the radar cruise option gets rid of the traditional cruise. Although, the radar is a very good system but it would have been nice to have both.

Tony

vperl
07-08-09, 01:36 AM
Originally Posted by adhir@qx.net
Personally, I could care less if any car is a "chick magnet" (maybe it's my age?),

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

self reflection is great, people all the time ask me why the CTS-V ?

I always tell them " to pick up chicks", they all in end up giggling their way out the door, is there a message in that?

Answer is, because it is what it is..... the V is by any standard the best in class for numerous reasons, all mentioned here by most everyone.

I wanted to be part of it, no matter how small, being someone that will keep the V2 stoclk