: In the long run Cadillac really needs a true prestige luxury model



orconn
07-03-09, 12:37 AM
Let's face it if Cadillac is too reverse its' slide into the ranks of "just another car" it needs to develop and market a car that truly sets world standards in quality, luxury and beautiful design. Without such a car a Cadillac is just a Buick or higher grade Chevrolet ....... and as such there is no real reason for it to continue to exist. Let's face it Mercedes doesn't enjoy its' prestige in the world because it makes ubiquitous third world taxis. It is the S class that carries the cache for the mark. The preference for the S class by the world's power elite over the BMW 7 series and Audi 8, and the German consensus of the cars superiority and prestige may be based on obsolete perceptions but they are a fact of life. If Cadillac fails to develop a true prestige model in the next few years (a superior handling entry executive level sports sedan for the yuppie market will not get the job done) the Cadillac Motor Division will be completely irrelevant.

c5 rv
07-03-09, 08:13 AM
I disagree. GM has (supposedly) limited funds and the money is better spent executing perfect launches of very good cars and trucks in all segments that generate sufficient, profitable sales. Quality, reliability, performance, style, and price all need to be on the mark. A world-class halo car that sells at low, unprofitable volumes and a bunch of other mediocre cars like Colorado, Aveo, Vibe, etc. are not going to save the company.

orconn
07-03-09, 10:59 AM
I agree that if GM is to survive it must make high volume products that succeed in the market place. But for Cadillac to have significant role of adding prestige to GM's product line the mark needs to be setting new standards of excellence and prestige, i.e. without a model that caters to the taste of the members of the power and economic elite Cadillac is just another has been brand.

Lord Cadillac
07-03-09, 11:28 AM
I think you're both right.. The way I'm seeing it right now - Cadillac needs a BMW 3-Series competitor. The CTS did a "good" job of getting SOME younger people to notice the brand - but not enough. Cadillac needs a car that young, affluent people want to own. It's got to be very luxurious and very sporty simultaneously. Even the Lexus IS is a good starting point. I like the looks of the CTS but I don't think enough young people do. The Lexus IS? Eh. It's okay. The BMW 335i, though - now that's a car every young guy wants. I don't think this current design theme at Cadillac is going to work out in the long run. It's looks too "Cadillac" - and while I like that - I really don't feel most youthful people do.

Cadillac has to think outside the box, design something totally different, make it very luxurious and very sporty. Once the sales start racking in, than they can concentrate on building a Mercedes S-Class competitor. If Hyundai can do it (Equus), Cadillac can do it - they just need to get on the ball.

I don't think there's enough money available at Cadillac to make a proper full-size luxury sedan right now. The XTS isn't sounding too great to me. It sounds like another STS with updated features and technology. I'd rather Cadillac just forgot about the full-size segment for now. They're going to have an Acura RL on their hands - and how well is that selling these days? Why bother? Do another minor update to the DTS, leave it as is and concentrate on a new entry-level Cadillac that affluent late 20s / 30 somethings actually want.

hardrockcamaro@mac.c
07-03-09, 01:31 PM
I think a coupe that is smaller (and cheaper!) than the CTS would be a good idea for younger owners. BTS?

They could use a euro engine in it, Vauxhall (Opel) over here have some good engines in their Vectra, they could use the 2.8L 6cyl DOHC turbo unit which produces 276BHP and is mated to a choice of manual or automatic 6 speed transmission which would give performance similar to the DI CTS if the car was smaller and lighter.

Lord Cadillac
07-03-09, 01:32 PM
It'll need the 3.6DI in order to compete with the 335i...

tman2093
07-03-09, 05:02 PM
GM needs to get the young people buying. My roommate wants what is essentially the Chevy Cobalt. I even took her to test drive one, she loved it. You now why shes still shopping? She has a stigma over Chevy and is still looking. For a Civic.

c5 rv
07-03-09, 05:10 PM
GM needs to get the young people buying. My roommate wants what is essentially the Chevy Cobalt. I even took her to test drive one, she loved it. You now why shes still shopping? She has a stigma over Chevy and is still looking. For a Civic.

Have her drive a new Focus.

gary88
07-03-09, 05:11 PM
It'll need the 3.6DI in order to compete with the 335i...

It'll need more than that...

Lord Cadillac
07-03-09, 05:36 PM
It'll need more than that...
Well unfortunately, that's the best we're going to get. So we might as well get that...

77CDV
07-03-09, 10:07 PM
The first thing GM needs to do is amass some money that is not the taxpayers. Then we can talk about designing and building supercars. Ain't gonna happen while the General is sucking at the public teat.

Playdrv4me
07-04-09, 03:41 AM
I think you're both right.. The way I'm seeing it right now - Cadillac needs a BMW 3-Series competitor. The CTS did a "good" job of getting SOME younger people to notice the brand - but not enough. Cadillac needs a car that young, affluent people want to own. It's got to be very luxurious and very sporty simultaneously. Even the Lexus IS is a good starting point. I like the looks of the CTS but I don't think enough young people do. The Lexus IS? Eh. It's okay. The BMW 335i, though - now that's a car every young guy wants. I don't think this current design theme at Cadillac is going to work out in the long run. It's looks too "Cadillac" - and while I like that - I really don't feel most youthful people do.

Cadillac has to think outside the box, design something totally different, make it very luxurious and very sporty. Once the sales start racking in, than they can concentrate on building a Mercedes S-Class competitor. If Hyundai can do it (Equus), Cadillac can do it - they just need to get on the ball.

I don't think there's enough money available at Cadillac to make a proper full-size luxury sedan right now. The XTS isn't sounding too great to me. It sounds like another STS with updated features and technology. I'd rather Cadillac just forgot about the full-size segment for now. They're going to have an Acura RL on their hands - and how well is that selling these days? Why bother? Do another minor update to the DTS, leave it as is and concentrate on a new entry-level Cadillac that affluent late 20s / 30 somethings actually want.

I am finding out that you are pretty much right, even though as far as I'm concerned the CTS was a perfectly fine competitor for the 3 Series. Apparently however, the CTS is appealing to buyers in every category EXCEPT that key 3 Series demographic. The GM Reinvention site is running customer testimonials right now, and one of them is a guy who traded in a Jaguar XJ8 L on a new CTS 3.6 and says "he'll never go back". Well that's all well and good, but XJ8 buyers are not the ones the CTS should be conquering.

Destroyer
07-04-09, 07:51 AM
GM needs to get the young people buying. My roommate wants what is essentially the Chevy Cobalt. I even took her to test drive one, she loved it. You now why shes still shopping? She has a stigma over Chevy and is still looking. For a Civic.25+ years of crappy Cavaliers and Grand Am's caught up with the General. All young people want Honda's these days. I'd take a Civic over a Cobalt too.

ryannel2003
07-04-09, 12:19 PM
Right now I'm driving a '07 DTS rental while my car is in the shop for the brakes and I can completely understand why the older generation love these cars. They are extremely comfortable and easy to drive, even though the car itself is pretty big. If the new XTS isn't similar or better DTS they are going to alienate that crowd and they will end up with other cars like the Toyota Avalon and Hyundai Genesis. The Avalon is pretty much the best Buick that Toyota has ever built; the problem is that Cadillac and Buick both have identities that are once again crossing paths. Buick = Lexus. Cadillac = Mercedes-Benz.

That's the way I see it, and unfortunately with GM's money troubles I don't think it will be like that for a long time. GM needs the S-Class fighter, but they also need the 3-series competitor too. The XTS is a confusing model for me to wrap my head around and until I get some specs or pictures, I'm not looking forward to it's arrival. Cadillac needs a DTS replacement, and an S-Class fighter.

blue07cts
07-04-09, 04:07 PM
Well unfortunately, that's the best we're going to get. So we might as well get that...



i don't really think the DI cts's speed issue's are as much the engine as they are the porky car, and i think the CTS's 6 speed is geared to much toward fuel economy. i think in a smaller 3 series sized car the Di would do fine.

orconn
07-04-09, 05:06 PM
People here seem to be equating the CTI with the 3 series BMW when in actuality the CTI was meant to go toe totoe with the 5 series. I am not sure that it is necessaryfor Cadillac to go that far down market. From what I see (my son's 3 series) the 3 series is a good handling, entry level, executive class car. Not really big enough to accommodate a family confortably. Cadillac should stick with the 5 series as the entry level target and up grade upon that.

Playdrv4me
07-04-09, 06:48 PM
People here seem to be equating the CTI with the 3 series BMW when in actuality the CTI was meant to go toe totoe with the 5 series. I am not sure that it is necessaryfor Cadillac to go that far down market. From what I see (my son's 3 series) the 3 series is a good handling, entry level, executive class car. Not really big enough to accommodate a family confortably. Cadillac should stick with the 5 series as the entry level target and up grade upon that.

The problem is that Cadillac's cars have always played one market lower than their intended market on a world stage. The CTS has been compared with the 3 Series as far back as I can remember, and like-wise the STS has always been placed in comparison tests with the 5 Series as far back as the 1992 re-introduction of the STS brand (the -real- STS).

hueterm
07-05-09, 12:33 AM
In terms of the cars themselves, the CTS is most similar to the 5 or the E -- at least in length, they are all three identical. However, it's priced like the 3. A top of the line CTS is similar in price to a top of the line 3 -- and is FAR less than a top of the line E or 5. The STS is almost the same size as a SWB 7 -- which is a surprise to me...

If they can make a hot car the size of the 3, for $10K less, then hey -- more power to them. Just don't dilute the brand to put out a piece of crap.

77CDV
07-05-09, 02:21 AM
^That.