Many members here have stated that Cadillac has a new differential to solve the whining problem so many of us have. Cadillac HQ AND my local delearship are totally denying any new part reguarding the rear differential. The service manager even went as far to say that Corporate said they would have never made a new rear diff. as MY car is the only CTS they've had with rear differential problems. :rant2:

When I told him I've been discussing this SAME problems with other members of an internet forum, he said the internet is full of misinformation, and that people can type whatever they want.

Why would Cadillac HQ still be denying that this problem exists to it's service managers??? Anyone having this problem please post the name and location of the dealer you are working on it with, so that I can give my delearship a list of legitimate complaints which he can verify with other service managers

My dealership has serviced my differential twice. Both times they found something wrong but the whine still came back eventually. I must say that my service department is very tentative to my complaints and they do a very good job trying to fix things.

Don Massey Cadillac in Plymouth, Michigan.

Many members here have stated that Cadillac has a new differential to solve the whining problem so many of us have. Cadillac HQ AND my local delearship are totally denying any new part reguarding the rear differential. The service manager even went as far to say that Corporate said they would have never made a new rear diff. as MY car is the only CTS they've had with rear differential problems. :rant2:

When I told him I've been discussing this SAME problems with other members of an internet forum, he said the internet is full of misinformation, and that people can type whatever they want.

Why would Cadillac HQ still be denying that this problem exists to it's service managers??? Anyone having this problem please post the name and location of the dealer you are working on it with, so that I can give my delearship a list of legitimate complaints which he can verify with other service managers

03-05 Cadillac CTS , CTS-V and SRX Howl Whine Noise from Rear Axle - kw accelerate decelerate #PIP3051 - (Jul 8, 2004)
03-05 Cadillac CTS, CTS-V and SRX Howl Whine Noise from Rear Axle
.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the described symptoms in the PI.

Condition/Concern:
Howl or whine noise from the rear axle on accel and/or decel. Most noticeable at speeds between 35-50 mph.

Recommendation/Instructions:
Compare the noise to another identically equipped vehicle with similar mileage and make any necessary repairs. Axle break in procedures must be strictly adhered to during initial break-in as outlined in the Owners Manual. This also applies to any replacement axles that would be installed in a customer's vehicle. For 500 miles, it is suggested that rapid acceleration be avoided, as well as to avoid driving at the same speed for more than five or ten minutes at a time. The vehicle should also not be used for towing during the break-in process.

As of right now, no new part has been brought down, but I am under the understanding they are working on a fix.

Where did you get that info??? If that is coming from Cadillac, I'd love to take that info in to my delearship! How can I reference it?

It's a service bulletin. Your dealer has access to it.

It is also worded that your dealer makes the decision on what repair is necessary as compared to a like car. I don't see your dealership being swayed simply by this bulletin.

I took my CTS back to the dealer today to deal with the recall, sunroof rattles, and the rear diff whine. I was contacted this afternoon and told by my service rep that a technician had driven and heard the problem. Next he stated that a regional Cadillac rep was coming to drive my car and decide what to do for a fix.

I received a 05 CTS/non lux sport for a loaner and there was no diff whine noise at all.

My CTS was broken in with strict adherence to the 500 mile break-in process as I do all my new vehicles so abuse could not be the cause. There is the possibility that someone at the dealership may have abused the car before I took ownership but this problem only started at 10,000 miles. There is definitely some other engineering problem with these cars.

I am curious about the diff in the V series, is it the same? If so I would think the torque applied by the 3.6 even if abused would not compare with the spline stress the V produces during normal acceleration.

I believe the V uses the same differential as the 3.2L V6.
At least all mention of gear ratios has been the same...

The 3.6L is slightly different.

Where did you get that info??? If that is coming from Cadillac, I'd love to take that info in to my delearship! How can I reference it?
Just take this info in to them:
Preliminary Information Bulletin #PIP3051 - (Jul 8, 2004)

That's all they need.

Just take this info in to them:
Preliminary Information Bulletin #PIP3051 - (Jul 8, 2004)

That's all they need.

Thanks for this info and all the other good stuff you post. We do appreciate it.

Rear diff was replaced at 18,000 (17,000 miles ago). It had a high pitched howl when coasting (no load) at speeds of 50 mph or less. According to my dealer, GM asked for the unit to be sent back engineering for a teardown/review. I have never had an issue with my Cadillac store. Anderson Cadillac - Minneapolis, MN

I can't find anything about PIP3051 on the web. I'd like to go into the dealer with a hard copy of this bulletin, so they can't play dumb. Are there any sites that supply this information so I can print it out?? Thanks in advance.

I can't find anything about PIP3051 on the web. I'd like to go into the dealer with a hard copy of this bulletin, so they can't play dumb. Are there any sites that supply this information so I can print it out?? Thanks in advance.
No, this is a preliminary information bulletin, not a technical service bulletin. If they play dumb, go to another dealer.

No, this is a preliminary information bulletin, not a technical service bulletin. If they play dumb, go to another dealer.
Yep. Go to another dealer.
I first took it to a dealer i got my car from and everytime i called they were always playing dumb about rear diff issue.

Yep. Go to another dealer.
I first took it to a dealer i got my car from and everytime i called they were always playing dumb about rear diff issue.

My dealer called today and says they will do nothing about the rear diff whine, says there is nothing wrong with making this noise.
Crest Cadillac in Plano, Texas

Time for an arbitrator and maybe an attorney

Time for an arbitrator and maybe an attorney

Just got off the phone with another local dealer and they said they have seen this problem with a few CTS' and fixed it. I have already made the appointment.

In defense of the dealerships, it has been more than fifty years since hypoid gear set whines , noises, and failures were common enought to expect the majority of mechanics to be familiar with them. The manufacturers have become so adept at setting up bearings and clearances that I'll bet there are a lot of automotive technicians out there that have never encountered a customer with a failed hypoid gearset. Also when one wheel is spun dramatically with a so-called burnout and a lack of a limited slip differential the differential spider gears are destined for destruction. One good drawn out burnout can completely destroy the spider gears and or cross shaft.
In short, I suspect that part of the problem is a lack of familiarity with an increasingly uncommon problem by service techs and idiot customer abuse of the product.

Wow, great info guys... I'll keep an eye out for this on my wife's CTS...
Thanks

In short, I suspect that part of the problem is a lack of familiarity with an increasingly uncommon problem by service techs and idiot customer abuse of the product.
Definitely not the latter. We've seen this problem worse in CTS's that are driven by little old men and women. I NEVER do burnouts or drive my car hard at all, an I'm working on my second rear end (at 5500 miles no less).

Definitely not the latter. We've seen this problem worse in CTS's that are driven by little old men and women. I NEVER do burnouts or drive my car hard at all, an I'm working on my second rear end (at 5500 miles no less).

I'm sure GM doesn't want to continue this for 2005. It must have been quite costly for them in 2004.

Definitely not the latter. We've seen this problem worse in CTS's that are driven by little old men and women. I NEVER do burnouts or drive my car hard at all, an I'm working on my second rear end (at 5500 miles no less).
well mine has been whining ever since right past 500mi and it was replaced yesterday (not sure since it took less than 4hrs) but the loud howling noise is gone but the low noise is still there and they probably will deny it if i brought the car back in its current condition. My car was babied for the first 500mi or so even when it started making the noise (rained entire week so i never had a chance to really push it)

Summary of todays visit to the dealer;

The point that I was trying to make was that for the whining noises and gear set failures the shops are probably in denial because it is so rare an event. I suspect they are going to find some obscure problem in the manufacturing process. As far as differentials locking up and resulting wheel hop, the most likely cause is burnouts but not with the exclusion of all other possible causes. Buick Regal GS, even though front wheel drive is also subject to the same problem. There is a video on the web showing the owner picking up the pieces in the middle of the drag strip in a bucket after burnout number two.

My differential was replaced today and the noise is totally gone. This noise is definately NOT "Normal due to design" since my differential made a horrible grinding noise (sounded like driving with the parking break on) before it started humming again.

I really don't have much faith in this fix, as this is my second time around with it. The last fix only lasted 7000 miles. Obviously something else is causing the differentials to fail. Cadillac corporate told me they will extend my warranty on this part, which will help me sleep a little better(IF they actually come through on it).


Darelld- Please tell us how they fix your car after the work is done!


Oh Yea, I've NEVER burned out in my car. ;)

The Lincoln LS was also on my short list of vehicles under consideration before my CTS purchase. After today and hearing how Cadillac Zone Reps could care less about the problems my CTS has Lincoln would have been a better choice.

And now this only confirms that Lincoln is the better car;
http://thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7334

I am new to this board and until I read this thread I was loving my CTS.

According to what I read so far CTS, CTS-V and SRX, essentially all the sigma platform vehicles have this problem with the differential.

Are these mostly '03 or '04's ?

What is the total mileage on these cars? I am asking cause I will be paying close attention to my mileage and any odd sounds I hear.

Also someone posted something about the 3.6L being different? How?
Has anyone with a '04 3.6L CTS experienced these problems?

The problem is on the '03 and '04 models.

I am new to this board and until I read this thread I was loving my CTS.

According to what I read so far CTS, CTS-V and SRX, essentially all the sigma platform vehicles have this problem with the differential.

Are these mostly '03 or '04's ?

What is the total mileage on these cars? I am asking cause I will be paying close attention to my mileage and any odd sounds I hear.

Also someone posted something about the 3.6L being different? How?
Has anyone with a '04 3.6L CTS experienced these problems?
i have the 04 with 3.6 and i had differential issue.
It looks like dealer took care of the loud griding noise but noise is still there :(

The last vehicle I drove that made this type of differential noise was a 5 ton truck for the Army.

I talked with my parts department and they swear that GM has a new part number for the rear end. They say that when they enter an order for the old part number, it forwards to the new one, but the new one is not available yet. This is good news.

I think they're lying to you. My dealer just ordered my differential last week and the same old part came. I've repeatedly pressured them AND Cadillac corporate to check in to the possiblilty of a new part. Both told me the is absolutely NO new part, and NO plans for one.

I think the delearships are told to lye about this. My dealer told me Cadillac corproate said this is the first CTS they've heard of with this rearend problem. When I told him about the people on this site, he implied that people go on to websites and make things up to hurt the reputation of car manufacturers. When I told them of the Preliminary Information Bulletin PIP3051, he said they don't always get PIP's, and only have access to Service Bulletins....yea right. Anyway, the diff. was replaced and the noise is totally gone. Car seems to drive smoother as well. But sadly, :confused: I doubt it will last.

I think they're lying to you. My dealer just ordered my differential last week and the same old part came. I've repeatedly pressured them AND Cadillac corporate to check in to the possiblilty of a new part. Both told me the is absolutely NO new part, and NO plans for one.

I think the delearships are told to lye about this. My dealer told me Cadillac corproate said this is the first CTS they've heard of with this rearend problem. When I told him about the people on this site, he implied that people go on to websites and make things up to hurt the reputation of car manufacturers. When I told them of the Preliminary Information Bulletin PIP3051, he said they don't always get PIP's, and only have access to Service Bulletins....yea right. Anyway, the diff. was replaced and the noise is totally gone. Car seems to drive smoother as well. But sadly, :confused: I doubt it will last.
first dealership i went to said that they never heard of rear diffs going bad. Second dealership said it's a common issue. Also when i called the number you posted (cadillac corporate), lady said that she doesn't know whether there is a new rear diff for the car or not and advised me to go to my dealership to find out.

Call matthew at lindsay cadillac 703-998-6600

I think they're lying to you. My dealer just ordered my differential last week and the same old part came. I've repeatedly pressured them AND Cadillac corporate to check in to the possiblilty of a new part. Both told me the is absolutely NO new part, and NO plans for one.

no, they're not lying to me, it sounds like yours is though. When I said "MY" parts department, I literally meant MY parts department. I myself punched the part number in and it does indeed have a new part number. If they call Parts-Tech, they will confirm there is a new part number. I can put a spac-case on the old part number and get it from another dealership or place that still has the old part number in stock, but I cannot get the new part number - Lansing says 0 in stock. We have two CTS customers waiting for the new part number. Our Service Manager owns a Cashmere CTS and he himself is waiting for the new part. He (WE) is (are) well aware of the problem.

I think the delearships are told to lye about this.

I can assure you that is not the case. What really is happening is this info is NOT readily available (part numbers change often), and some service departments may be stubborn or have really not encountered this to the extend others have. This hasn't been an issue in our Norman store, but yet our Edmond store it's a constant issue. You really don't know about the part number change until you start doing the swaps alot. We do them alot here at this location, so my parts department caught the change since it was fresh in their mind. A call to Parts Tech solidified that it indeed changed.


My dealer told me Cadillac corproate said this is the first CTS they've heard of with this rearend problem.

It's not Cadillac Corporate. They didn't talk to Corporate, noone has. They contacted their Service line who probably is not aware of any change - Service is rarely informed of part changes, unless they are RECALL related. Also, I can assure you that your contacts to GM were at the lowest level with people who would not have this information at all.

When I told him about the people on this site, he implied that people go on to websites and make things up to hurt the reputation of car manufacturers

True and typical response. Again, if they haven't been hit like many other dealerships have, they would be sceptical.

When I told them of the Preliminary Information Bulletin PIP3051, he said they don't always get PIP's, and only have access to Service Bulletins....yea right

They need to use their computer more.

Anyway, the diff. was replaced and the noise is totally gone.
Good. What was the part number installed?

Thanks for your help. This is directly from my service receipt. Is this the new part you're talking about?


F2143 Carrier Assembly (Complete) - Replace Rear
Differential
170 W94
(1) 25766288 Carrier
(1) 25730853 Vent
(2) 89021677 Lubricant
FC: 6C
Part #: 25766288
Count: 4

Thanks for your help. This is directly from my service receipt. Is this the new part you're talking about?


F2143 Carrier Assembly (Complete) - Replace Rear
Differential
170 W94
(1) 25766288 Carrier
(1) 25730853 Vent
(2) 89021677 Lubricant
FC: 6C
Part #: 25766288
Count: 4
Well mine says this
PARTS FP-NUMBER
JOB#1 25766298 CARRIER 5.510
JOB#1 89021677 LUBRICANT 8.800
JOB#1 89021677 LUBRICANT 8.800

What's the vent?

Checking www.gmpartsdirect.com yields a match for both part numbers, one significantly more expensive than another. What gives???

What's the vent?


That must be the charge they made for listening to the customer complain to them . :>

Who knows what the vent is, but I guess I got the wrong part number. What do I do now???? Isn't there any documentation to show that the old part is obsolete now???? Why is ther NO communication within this company, and why weren't they informed when the OLD part was ordered!!!!! :banghead:

Who knows what the vent is, but I guess I got the wrong part number. What do I do now???? Isn't there any documentation to show that the old part is obsolete now???? Why is ther NO communication within this company, and why weren't they informed when the OLD part was ordered!!!!! :banghead:
my dealership found out about this like 2weeks ago. They first ordered the old unit then later called me and told me that they have to reorder to get the new unit.

I doubt it was very costly for GM in 2004 since they do not seem to ackonwledge the problem very frequently. I bought a CTS because they are supposed to be quiet on the road. No such luck! The rear end has been whining since I got it home. I did the test drive in a monster of a rain storm so I did not hear it at the time. The local dealer told me he could not reproduce the noise and that it was conditional not problematic. I guess it has to break down out in the middle of nowhere before it becomes problematic. A 4-year, 50K mile warranty does little good if GM won't even acknowledge the problem. The CTS looks great and the 3.6 engine and auto tranny work well but GM is still the same old company, in my opinion.

I doubt it was very costly for GM in 2004 since they do not seem to ackonwledge the problem very frequently. I bought a CTS because they are supposed to be quiet on the road. No such luck! The rear end has been whining since I got it home. I did the test drive in a monster of a rain storm so I did not hear it at the time. The local dealer told me he could not reproduce the noise and that it was conditional not problematic. I guess it has to break down out in the middle of nowhere before it becomes problematic. A 4-year, 50K mile warranty does little good if GM won't even acknowledge the problem. The CTS looks great and the 3.6 engine and auto tranny work well but GM is still the same old company, in my opinion.
do what i did, take it to another dealership and be sure to schedule a test drive with a technician.

they denied that my driver side ac vent is loud and sounds like something is clogged up until few days ago after 3 complaints at 2 dealership, i just told them to go check it in the car in front of mine and then tell me whether it's loud or not.

I have another appointment setup for tuesday morning.

I doubt it was very costly for GM in 2004 since they do not seem to ackonwledge the problem very frequently. I bought a CTS because they are supposed to be quiet on the road. No such luck! The rear end has been whining since I got it home. I did the test drive in a monster of a rain storm so I did not hear it at the time. The local dealer told me he could not reproduce the noise and that it was conditional not problematic. I guess it has to break down out in the middle of nowhere before it becomes problematic. A 4-year, 50K mile warranty does little good if GM won't even acknowledge the problem. The CTS looks great and the 3.6 engine and auto tranny work well but GM is still the same old company, in my opinion.

I think some of GM is the same applies while others at GM are trying to improve the company. Unfortuately if you get an "Old Skool" dealerhip like I did, Crest Cadillac of Plano Texas, they will deny rather than correct your problems. Crest Cadillac of Plano Texas even called in a so called GM Zone Rep to rubber stamp their unwillingness to correct my problem.

Another local dealer I contacted, one with whom I should have done my original business, was aware and fully willing to fix the problem. The difference in attitudes was 100% different from one local dealer to another.

Another local dealer I contacted, one with whom I should have done my original business, was aware and fully willing to fix the problem. The difference in attitudes was 100% different from one local dealer to another.


My experience mirrors yours. My Original dealer that I purchased my 04 CTS from, RUSS DARROW CADILLAC in WAUKESHA, Wisconsin, was unwilling and unable to fix a couple rather minor problems.

I took it to CREST CADILLAC in BROOKFIELD, Wisconsin, and ..what a difference. Crest treated me great and fixed what needed fixing. The dealer makes all the difference. Maybe its time for Cadillac to weed out some of the bad ones.

I assume that the more expensive part #...288 is the new part? This, of course, is not the part my dealer installed in my V :(

I assume that the more expensive part #...288 is the new part? This, of course, is not the part my dealer installed in my V :(
i think the # that i posted is the new part and more expensive is the old one.
It also has a later#

The only way GM is going to improve their dealerships is by we "The Customer" refusing to accept bad service. Call Cadillac and complain, fill out your questionaires with bad marks, and continue to push for improvement. Demand better service and reward those dealers who give it with your business. :want:

There should probably be a forum dedicated to dealer experiences. I tried doing research on this but information is hard to find. JD Powers surveys by brand but not to the dealer level.

Is there any way to find out FOR SURE which the new part is before I complain to the dealer again???

Here are the part#s from the order;
89059049 DIFFERENT 5.510
25730853 VENT 5.387

Parts are on special order

So wait....Do we have a THIRD part number for this junk rear differential??? :annoyed:

How do we know which one is the "good" one???

You don't, I plan on driving it with whatever they put in. If it breaks again GM will have to eat another bad part. At least this dealer is willing to acknowledge and do something to correct the problem. I give them high marks for that.

Interesting, that part number doesn't show up at gmpartsdirect.com?

Just stumbled on this site and guess what. I have an appointment with my Cadillac dealer next week to have them listen to rear differential noise in my wifes 04 CTS. Most noticable around 25 MPH and with slight throttle pressure. I'm sure it's a gear lash issue. It's Black with the 3.6 and the ISC package with Nav. Wife loves it but is planning on a long road trip next month and On-Star or not no need to have a problem if it can be avoided. Thanks for the ammunition. Hope I don't ned it.

In case the readers of this section and/or thread dont happen to browse elsewhere, (we in) the V forum is talking about this issue as well. Also at this link I've grabbed up most of the other rear end threads and cross posted ther URL's for reference.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16314

Just in case you REALLY want to do some rear reading ;)

-Ben

Interesting, that part number doesn't show up at gmpartsdirect.com?

Check again;
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?addtocart=1&addpartnumber=89059049&singlepart=1&partnumber=89059049

Which rear diff is the correct part? And why do i have the same rear diff as wildwhl when i have a regular cts?

I just had my differential replaced this week. My selling dealer(Bairel in Pittsburgh) said it was not to bad so I went to Rohrick Cadillac and they said it sounded the same as other CTS's. I found this unaccceptible and finally took the car to C. Harper in Belle Vernon, Pa and the lead service tech road with me and did hear the load whine/howl fromt he rear end. They(GM/C. Harper) replaced and discussed the break in period with me. service information bulletin number 1537411 issued on July 8, 2004 called Cadillac CTS,CTS-V and SRX Howl Whine Noise from Rear Axle #PIP3051. You seem to have to go around and find a good dealer to fix the cars. I drove an Acrura, BMW and other foreign cars for 20 years and Cadillac has to imprive it's dealer service network to keep the new buyers.

At this point I am really getting curious as to what people are hearing and calling rear end failures. My experience in this area goes back 50 years or more. A classsic hypoid gearset failure is not something that one guy can hear and the other can't while you're riding in the back with the rear seat out. If you stand on the curb you can hear the car approaching from two blocks away. Grinding and crunching noises are probably bearing failures or broken parts. Wheel hops and locked differentials are failed spider gear bushings /bearings or cross shafts and are obvious. It is starting to appear to me that some these cases are "rabbit ears" and the power of suggestion. I would like to see some teardown reports on the replaced parts. The quick way to tell if the failure is real is to stick a small magnet in the oil in the rear end and see how much metal sticks to it. There are few mysteries here.

I am not a CTS owner but im curious , what are the diff cases made out of ? Aluminum or the typical cast iron type stuff ?

Just wondering if it is alumium as maybe there not bakeing the case before setting up the diff ? Maybe the expanding alumium throws the setup off for preload and all that stuff ? From what i gathered the noise appears when the car is warmed up so im just thinking here .

I really did hear the whine from the rear end and it was noisy at low speeds, so much you could hear it clearly over the radio. I do agree you will hear a certain amount of mechanical noise from the car which is normal, but the howling is excessive in this case.

At this point I am really getting curious as to what people are hearing and calling rear end failures. My experience in this area goes back 50 years or more. A classsic hypoid gearset failure is not something that one guy can hear and the other can't while you're riding in the back with the rear seat out. If you stand on the curb you can hear the car approaching from two blocks away. Grinding and crunching noises are probably bearing failures or broken parts. Wheel hops and locked differentials are failed spider gear bushings /bearings or cross shafts and are obvious. It is starting to appear to me that some these cases are "rabbit ears" and the power of suggestion. I would like to see some teardown reports on the replaced parts. The quick way to tell if the failure is real is to stick a small magnet in the oil in the rear end and see how much metal sticks to it. There are few mysteries here.

This is from the post on the CTS-V forum - looks like they are finding pieces - GM will need to come clean on this eventually.

The dealer decided that possibly swapping out the rearend fluid would cure the noise. When they drained it they found metal - a lot of metal - and tried to order new parts. They did not receive the parts they ordered (have not as of yet) but instead were informed by GM that an upgraded differential assembly was available and would be shipping from Lansing, Michigan. This should arrive this week, and I'll post how well the car runs, results of my (dis)satisfaction with the dealer, etc. once I receive the car back.

I've been posting my experiences under the thread labeled "Vibration", but after reading all of the responses on this thread, I guess they belong here. My dealer has been super receptive to my complaints. The service manager being an ex-drag racer is very savvy and recognized my problem immediately. They just replaced my differential, vent tube and propellor shaft and the results were fabulous.All the noise and vibration I was experiencing is totally gone. Hopefully it will stay gone, but I'll keep everyone posted. BTW, my dealer is Taylor Cadillac in Toledo, Ohio. Great staff in every department.

Now we're getting some where. It's a simple matter to put the car on a lift and examine the rear end lubrication to see if the gear set is "making metal". Because of the nature of the additives in extreme pressure lubricants they often will have the appearance of metallic paint when they are simply doing their job of lubrication. A magnet with a lot of hair hanging off it is definitive.

Bluemalibu -

Correct - that is from my post. The metal that was found was substantial. Drag a magnet through it and it was covered in strands/hairs/chunks whatever you want to call it. Able to see with the naked eye - and not the milky/creamy look that additives will usually cause (though the fluid was pasty). So, at least in my case, and because I saw the chewed up components with my own two eyes, albeit briefly, I'm certain the differential failed. The gear faces were wearing significantly and I'm sure total failure would have occured within the next few thousand miles.

New differential, regardless of part number, does not exhibit any of the previous sounds. I plan to swap the fluid out shortly (next weekend I suppose, since this weekend is over). My dealer did NOT install the additive that some have listed as required, I think, in the 'vette. Simply installed the proper lubricant...and that's all I know about the subject :)

Well; took the wifes 04 CTS to the dealer for rear end noise and guess what in a test ride with a technician I could not hear it from the passenger seat. I agreed to put some more miles on it and after paying closer attention to when it happens I realized it's after the car has been operated for a good period of time probably long enough for the lube to thin somewhat from heat. Yesterday it was particulary noticable from the passenger position and seems to be occuring a slightly higher speeds now around 30-35 MPH. It's still a noise from no load to load or slight throttel tip in. It was loud enough yesterday to hear over the radio. Even if it's not a sign of imminent failure it shouldn't be something I have to live with in a $40K car. Back to the dealer next week.

Well; took the wifes 04 CTS to the dealer for rear end noise and guess what in a test ride with a technician I could not hear it from the passenger seat. I agreed to put some more miles on it and after paying closer attention to when it happens I realized it's after the car has been operated for a good period of time probably long enough for the lube to thin somewhat from heat. Yesterday it was particulary noticable from the passenger position and seems to be occuring a slightly higher speeds now around 30-35 MPH. It's still a noise from no load to load or slight throttel tip in. It was loud enough yesterday to hear over the radio. Even if it's not a sign of imminent failure it shouldn't be something I have to live with in a $40K car. Back to the dealer next week.

You hit the nail on the head! It has to be hot for the whine to be there. My dealer told me to bring my 2005 in last week for the rear end noise. I live about 20 miles for the dealer so it was hot by the time I got there. The service advisor went for a ride with me and he said....yep, it is howling! He checked my build date and although it is a 2005 model, I stll had the older rear differential. He had to order the new design. Hopefully, I will have it done by mid week. I will post here with my results.

I stll had the older rear differential. He had to order the new design. Hopefully, I will have it done by mid week. I will post here with my results.

Is that to mean that 2005 builds will eventually have a new rear diff?

Still waiting for my parts and the dealer says all are on backorder...

Still waiting for my parts and the dealer says all are on backorder...

My dealer called me today and said my differential came in. I have an appointment for Monday morning. You might want to call and see if yours came in yet. It looks like the backorder status is gone.

My dealer called me today and said my differential came in. I have an appointment for Monday morning. You might want to call and see if yours came in yet. It looks like the backorder status is gone.

Thanks for the update, contacted my dealer today, the part is in and replacement is scheduled for Friday.

Thanks for the update, contacted my dealer today, the part is in and replacement is scheduled for Friday.

Being that you are getting yours done first, would you mind posting here how the fix went? I am very anxious to see if the new differential cures the problem.

I will post back the results of my visit, this is my first time to this dealer. So far they are taking care of business...

Is It On All Or Some Of The Cts'?

I will post back the results of my visit, this is my first time to this dealer. So far they are taking care of business...

How did it go? Did the new differential cure the problem? Is the whine gone?

How did it go? Did the new differential cure the problem? Is the whine gone?

My CTS is still at the dealer and they anticipate completion of repairs this afternoon.

Currently driving an 05 DeVille loaner.

Repairs have been completed and the noise is gone. Service ticket states;

INTERNAL FAILURE
REPLACED CARRIER ASS

Repairs have been completed and the noise is gone. Service ticket states;

INTERNAL FAILURE
REPLACED CARRIER ASS
AHAHAHA :p

So the interesting questions now are, when will the new diffs be used on the 05s coming off the line, and what is the VIN breakpoint that will denote the new part number.

Brian

:helpless: Hopefully your fix lasts longer than mine. A loud grinding, followed by the return of the differential whine occurred just 7000 miles after its replacement.

Took my 04 CTS to dealer today to complain of whining in differential when maintaining RPM at 1500. Within 2 hours, service writer called me to say new differential had been ordered. When I asked how this was determined so quickly, he responded "You're one of many".

Add me to the waiting list for a new rear (dealer called and told me they ordered it today) - 04 V.

-Ben

I had mine replaced too. THe part number they replaced it with is: "25768794 Carrier 5.505". Is this the new upgraded unit? It is smooth and silent now.

The first dealer I went to with the problem said the noise was normal. The second dealer I tried replaced the diff, but some seal broke and it leaked the fluid all over my driveway.

When I took it in for the leak, the service manager mentioned to me that I had moisture in the plasic surround on the trunk. (where the license plate is mounted) He offered to fix it. He didn't tell me the fix would be the panel from a 2005! My car is Garnet Red (an extra grand), and the color on the new solid panel DOESN'T MATCH!!! Not that I even wanted it! I prefer the 03/04 look. Anyway, that is the only way Cadillac is offering to address the moisture issue in the trunk panel. Fortunately they were able to locate one with the 03/04 look to replace mine with. The new panel just doesn't look good with the red due to the back-up lamps stand out so much. On silver and white, it's a much cleaner look. But with darker colors those back-up lamps look huge!!

Anyway, no more fluid leak, but I'm still getting the diff whine. I'm going to take it back one more time before I check into lemon laws. I wish I didn't love the car so much.

Has anyone been able to completely have this fixed, with more than 1000 miles on the new diff?

I just looked up the price for that carrier on Gmpartsdirect.com

GM PART # 25768794
CATEGORY: Differential Carrier
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $831.70
OUR PRICE: $582.19
DESCRIPTION: CARRIER

Many members here have stated that Cadillac has a new differential to solve the whining problem so many of us have. Cadillac HQ AND my local delearship are totally denying any new part reguarding the rear differential. The service manager even went as far to say that Corporate said they would have never made a new rear diff. as MY car is the only CTS they've had with rear differential problems. :rant2:

When I told him I've been discussing this SAME problems with other members of an internet forum, he said the internet is full of misinformation, and that people can type whatever they want.

Why would Cadillac HQ still be denying that this problem exists to it's service managers??? Anyone having this problem please post the name and location of the dealer you are working on it with, so that I can give my delearship a list of legitimate complaints which he can verify with other service managers


I have owned my CTS 2004 for 3 months and have 3700 miles on it. After 500 miles I began hearing this whining noise from the rear end at speeds of 35-45. When I took the car in for repair the dealer said the noise is normal. HAHAHAH....I'm taking it back again with the facts I have gotten off this board. I also called Matthew at Linday Cadiallc 703-998-660 from a post I took off this board. He was aware of the problem but put me on hold for 10 minutes and never came back to help me. I called him again and he would not talk about the problem. He was complete idiot and would not even talk about Bulletin PIP 3051 after he admittted it existed. Seems like he was trying to cover something up. I'm very frustrated after spending 35k for a car that is driving me crazy with this stupid noise. My advise to anyone is DON'T BUY THIS CAR!!!
If anyone can help please email me. THANKS

The reason I joined this board was to gain as much input about the new CTS as possible before I buy one. I love it's style, the fit and finish seems to be very good, and I am looking forward to some great performance from the upcomming six speed V6 (considering the results of the C&D review on the auto). But I must say, I am very scared about this differential issue. I've been kind of reading these posts and holding my input since I don't actually own a CTS. I'm almost at the point now where I may need someone to tell me why I should still consider the CTS over a TL, especially when numerous dealers seem to treat you folks as if once you drive the car off the lot with them holding the check, you're on your own.

It really seems like this rear diff. issue is causing alot of headaches. I was hoping GM and their subsidiaries could change the attitude of their dealerships as they improve their products. It's apparant that they still have a way to get to that top notch customer satisfaction.

A quality, premire luxury division builds their cars right the first time, and then by chance if there is an issue, they take care of it swiftly and completely.

When Honda/Acura had a recurring transmission problem, they gave each person who had one a full 10 yr/100k mile warranty on it, and if it went, they replaced the entire transmission, not just the suspected parts. A friend of mind had this done on his '99 TL, and his Acura dealer was so curtious about it, they treated him almost as if he was royalty when he brought the car in, provided a more expensive RL for him while the work was done, and they told him there was another 50k mile warranty on the new transmission - even though his car had 60k on it when the trans started slipping.

Seems like Cadillac dealers are being very difficult about the differential issue, and most of these cars are brand new! Some of you have less than 10k on it when it starts to whine.

The reason I joined this board was to gain as much input about the new CTS as possible before I buy one. I love it's style, the fit and finish seems to be very good, and I am looking forward to some great performance from the upcomming six speed V6 (considering the results of the C&D review on the auto). But I must say, I am very scared about this differential issue. I've been kind of reading these posts and holding my input since I don't actually own a CTS. I'm almost at the point now where I may need someone to tell me why I should still consider the CTS over a TL, especially when numerous dealers seem to treat you folks as if once you drive the car off the lot with them holding the check, you're on your own.

It really seems like this rear diff. issue is causing alot of headaches. I was hoping GM and their subsidiaries could change the attitude of their dealerships as they improve their products. It's apparant that they still have a way to get to that top notch customer satisfaction.

A quality, premire luxury division builds their cars right the first time, and then by chance if there is an issue, they take care of it swiftly and completely.

When Honda/Acura had a recurring transmission problem, they gave each person who had one a full 10 yr/100k mile warranty on it, and if it went, they replaced the entire transmission, not just the suspected parts. A friend of mind had this done on his '99 TL, and his Acura dealer was so curtious about it, they treated him almost as if he was royalty when he brought the car in, provided a more expensive RL for him while the work was done, and they told him there was another 50k mile warranty on the new transmission - even though his car had 60k on it when the trans started slipping.

Seems like Cadillac dealers are being very difficult about the differential issue, and most of these cars are brand new! Some of you have less than 10k on it when it starts to whine.

Dude. I just bought a brand new 2005 CTS. I got the luxury sport package with the nav system. I picked it up on Monday night. I love it. I bought it with full knowledge of this issue. :thumbsup:

Fact is, you could spend all night reading horror stories on internet forums about every single car available in the US market. Go check out the Acura, BMW, Jag, Lexus, Audi, and Infiniti forums if you don't believe me.

Also, not every dealer is a problem.

I bought the CTS simply because I like it better than anything else for < $55k. I could have bought a BMW 530i, a Mercedes E class, a Jag s-type, an Acura, Infiniti, or a Lexus.

Any car you buy is a roll of the dice--so you might as well buy the car you like the best.

I love my CTS.

amen, brother

Dude. I just bought a brand new 2005 CTS. I got the luxury sport package with the nav system. I picked it up on Monday night. I love it. I bought it with full knowledge of this issue. :thumbsup:

Buying a car with full knowledge of an issue only makes me more concerned. How is my dealer going to handle it? Are they going to treat me like crap and tell me there's nothing wrong with it? Am I going to have to take it back numerous times to get it done right?

Buying a car with full knowledge of an issue only makes me more concerned. How is my dealer going to handle it? Are they going to treat me like crap and tell me there's nothing wrong with it? Am I going to have to take it back numerous times to get it done right?

Actually, it makes it much easier. You could put something in writing and make it part of the deal. You could insist upon immediate service if this problem arises.

If you think these type of problems are isolated to the CTS, then you need to do more research. Go check out the Acura forums. Those poor people are totally freaked-out over the new TL. Also, when it comes to quality and reliability, BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar are as bad as it comes.

Again, you can spend all night on the internet reading horror stories about every car available for sale in the US. Unfortunately, a lot of it is true.

I bought the CTS knowing this is a potential problem, but I also had fore knowledge of potential problems with other cars I considered.

At the end of the day, there was no more risk buying a CTS than buying a BMW 530i or an Acura TL.

Roll the dice...by the car you really like.

Actually, it makes it much easier. You could put something in writing and make it part of the deal. You could insist upon immediate service if this problem arises.

If you think these type of problems are isolated to the CTS, then you need to do more research. Go check out the Acura forums. Those poor people are totally freaked-out over the new TL. Also, when it comes to quality and reliability, BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar are as bad as it comes.

Again, you can spend all night on the internet reading horror stories about every car available for sale in the US. Unfortunately, a lot of it is true.

I bought the CTS knowing this is a potential problem, but I also had fore knowledge of potential problems with other cars I considered.

At the end of the day, there was no more risk buying a CTS than buying a BMW 530i or an Acura TL.

Roll the dice...by the car you really like.

I beg to differ on that. I've been on Honda-Acura.net for over 2 years, and I haven't seen anything like this thread for the TL. When that transmission situation occured, most people actually had very positive responses. I see very few if any serious complaints about the TL, especially the '04 which was all new last year.

The reason I own a Honda now is because I knew it would not be a "roll of the dice" when I bought it. And 110k miles later, that holds true. Outside of the belts and tires, I've had nothing done and the car still runs great. However, the reason I joined this Cadillac forum in the first palce, is because to me buying any GM vehicle can definitely be a roll of the dice. I am giving the benefit of doubt to them, as they seem to have much better vehicles in their lineup today than they ever did. I would love to buy domestic again. But I won't if they don't make rock solid cars and have solid service to back them if something does happen.

Take a look at VTEC.NET or Acura-TL.COM. I know because I almost bought a TL.

I used to be on TOV as well, but the way their forum is set up it's too confusing to read the threads and posts..... just checked and it still is. :hmm:

Maybe HAN just has the happy Honda/Acura owners. :)

I just think the bottom line is it's alot easier to pull a domestic owner to import than the other way around. Having said that, I still love the CTS. I really do. There's just more doubt for me to go back to GM after my (then typical) experiences than it is to stick with Honda products.

This diff. problem reminds me of the seat belt issue I had on my 1993 Chevy Beretta. Long story, don't want to go there, but lets just say I swore 5 years ago I'd never own another GM as long as I lived.

I used to be on TOV as well, but the way their forum is set up it's too confusing to read the threads and posts..... just checked and it still is. :hmm:

Maybe HAN just has the happy Honda/Acura owners. :)

I just think the bottom line is it's alot easier to pull a domestic owner to import than the other way around. Having said that, I still love the CTS. I really do. There's just more doubt for me to go back to GM after my (then typical) experiences than it is to stick with Honda products.

This diff. problem reminds me of the seat belt issue I had on my 1993 Chevy Beretta. Long story, don't want to go there, but lets just say I swore 5 years ago I'd never own another GM as long as I lived.

I finally got my rear diff problem fixed after visiting another Caddy dealer. I have the latest diff part# and only the miles will tell if this fix lasts.

Now I am awaiting Nav replacement parts for the button labels flaking off but the new dealer is addressing the problem.

I guess I feel left out. I've got 11,000 miles on my '04 3.6L CTS. Haven't had any problems with anything...car just plain runs like a demon, gets great mileage and burns regular grade fuel. There is a minor howl coming from the differential (I think) and I'm going to let it go, but I will register a formal complaint/comment to the dealer for the record. Could have bought a hemi 300C but decided on the CTS. Glad I did so far...the car has been bullet proof.

Got my Diff replaced and the howl is gone. :)

Got my Diff replaced and the howl is gone. :)


What part number is listed on your service ticket for the differential?

Got my Diff replaced and the howl is gone. :)
my howl was gone but it returned after a while. :rolleyes:

my howl was gone but it returned after a while. :rolleyes:

I suggest you take it right back to them and have them do it again. Sounds like they replaced it with one of the old units.

Well, my cousin works at a Honda dealer. They have replaced 68 of the V6 trannies (accords, odysseys). Not all people get treated well. My co-worker has an Accord and even though the tranny started causing trouble well before 100k (and he PAID for his 100k warranty), and despite the fact that he took it in to complain twice before the warranty was up, they are now at just a hair over 100k asking him to foot the labor bill.

So it definitely depends on the DEALER and not so much on the brand of vehicle once a problem exists.

Brian

I can't beleive that anyone would think that the TL had not had problems. I owned a 2001 TL and it had many issues including the transmission problems for YEARS until Acura finnaly attempted to cheaply fix the problem. I had many isssues withthe TL such as rotor warping, squeeks, rattles in the seats and sun roof that could not be solved poor quality radio reception etc. These were not just a few of the issues and these were wide spread.

I suggest you take it right back to them and have them do it again. Sounds like they replaced it with one of the old units.
they replaced it with the new unit.

No Acura only replaced a part of the tranny they thought was causing the problem, but the problems continued.

Yesterday I took my late MY 04 CTS into Moore Cadillac in Tysons for the rear diff. problem and to get the repairs on the control arm washer recall. They kept it overnight, replaced the control arm washer and called today to say the rear diff was on order. Should be a week to 10 days.

Moore Cadillac continues to provide me with excellent service!

comming from europe, I would be interested to hear if anyone from europe have encounted any problems with the differential?? with that said, people shpuld be aware of the difference between a direct import US cadillac and the ones delivered to the official dealers, since there especially is a world of difference a US caddy and the european model. Hopefully there will be some responses.
regards
Henrik
Sweden

Oh wonderful... I spoke with my dealer and asked to get an estimate for the cost to replace my differential ("Carrier") ... Part cost = $1200 Labor 4hrs at a labor rate of $90 per hr. The TOTAL $1560 + cost for differential fluid + 5% tax .. Ouch! I guess that's the price you pay for owning an American car :( Too bad because I love the look of this car.

Exactly. If you had to buy a foreign rear end, youd be paying twice as much!
You got a rear differential for $1500. I got an alternator for 1200 for my BMW 540i.


Reviving 4 yr old threads...

Huh? Was this and officially recalled problem? In other words if you have, say an 04 and you notice whining in the rear diff would a dealer repair it at no cost? I've actually noticed a little in the CTS I just bought. Only when giving low power at around 20 to 30 mph. Not terribly bothersome but I have noticed it.

i dont think they even decided to change the dif in the 05-07's... ive read the same complaints on this forum from owners of the newer cts gen1

After reading alot of these postings, I did notice that my car ('03 CTS 53K miles) doesn't make the anoying sound (like driving an old chevy truck) until after driving it for around 15 minutes. After arriving home, I did notice that the differential was hot to the touch; hot enough to not want to touch it for more than a minute. So the longer you drive, the hotter it gets and the lounder the noise. At worst case, the noise is just lound enough to hear from inside the car and be anoyed.

Also, I did notice that some postings above had a vent on order along with the differential. Maybe the stock vents for the differential get blocked easily which causes (or accelerates) the differential damage by keeping the heat in the differential.

i dont think they even decided to change the dif in the 05-07's... ive read the same complaints on this forum from owners of the newer cts gen1:yup::yup:


Make: CADILLAC
Model: CTS
Affected Year(s): 2005 2006 2007
Units Affected: 20052
TC Recall #: 2007417
Manufacturer:
Campaign Code: 07204

Recall Details
On certain vehicles, the drive axle differential seal may leak (note that all-wheel drive vehicles have two seals). Reduced lubrication may cause the differential to become noisier. Continued use may cause damage to bearings and other differential components. Three conditions could occur: 1). When the vehicle is stopped and shifted to reverse, the differential may jam and prevent vehicle movement. 2). the damage can cause drag that will feel like the parking brake is applied; or 3) the differential could jam and lock the drive wheels while the vehicle is underway. Should the latter occur, it could result in a loss of vehicle control and a crash, causing injury or death. Correction: Dealers will replace the drive axle differential seal(s).

http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/Recalls/recall_e.asp?RECNO=14019&make=&Model=&year=&cmd=next

i actuly had my seals replaced on my 03 @ 114km...is that all the issue was? i thought it was something more serious..not that this isnt, i mean i thought it was a internal issue

i actuly had my seals replaced on my 03 @ 114km...is that all the issue was? i thought it was something more serious..not that this isnt, i mean i thought it was a internal issue

i never had that done, and i just found this today maybe i gotta give gm a call? how do you know if your vehicle is affected??? VIN>??

there were several V owners who took their car in for the recall. they had a whining, not-leaking, perfectly operating diff. after the seal replacement, they were treated to puddle of diff fluid in the garage.

I still have not taken mine in for the recall. I have gotten 2 reminder letters now from cadillac.

i never had that done, and i just found this today maybe i gotta give gm a call? how do you know if your vehicle is affected??? VIN>??

Chico--there are a couple of earlier posts about this, containing the VIN number ranges for the recall. If you can't find the posts, just call your Caddy dealer service dept and give 'em your VIN.

I had the recall done and it fixed my LSD "parking lot growl" issue. :thumbsup:

Chico--there are a couple of earlier posts about this, containing the VIN number ranges for the recall. If you can't find the posts, just call your Caddy dealer service dept and give 'em your VIN.

I had the recall done and it fixed my LSD "parking lot growl" issue. :thumbsup:

the reason i asked is because they issued a recall for 2005 model and it looks like Mike got his 2003 fixed. RT how's life treating you these days?:yawn:

has anyone switched to a synthetic diff fluid? i probably dont need to change it im pritty sure the dealer switched at least 1/2 the fluid when they changed the seals. i just really wanta take care of my car and a couple bucks in matainence is fine by me.
i was thinking about readline fluid, i think it is made by royle purple, anyone on here try this or do u just stick with the standard gm diff fluid?

the reason i asked is because they issued a recall for 2005 model and it looks like Mike got his 2003 fixed. RT how's life treating you these days?:yawn:

Life's ok; how about you? Haven't seen you around much.

i just looked under the car and noticed a very small leak. all good now. i dont know anything about the vin# affected. but mine is the lux sport, i have a different than you chico... i can check yours for you if you want.

i had the seals replaced that are where the drive axles come out of the diff. one on each side. (just so we no what we are all talkin bout)

Life's ok; how about you? Haven't seen you around much.

done with all my studies..:cloud9:. im a free man(except for student loans:D)

has anyone switched to a synthetic diff fluid? i probably dont need to change it im pritty sure the dealer switched at least 1/2 the fluid when they changed the seals. i just really wanta take care of my car and a couple bucks in matainence is fine by me.
i was thinking about readline fluid, i think it is made by royle purple, anyone on here try this or do u just stick with the standard gm diff fluid?

search over in the V forum. you will find alot of posts about redline and royal. just make sure you ignore the info about additives if you don't have LSD.

i have the lux spot, i think i do have a lsd

i believe the LSD only comes on 17" wheel perf, 18" wheel perf, and CTS sport model.

i have the 03 lux sport with factory 17s...all stock

how can i find out if i have the LSD? i thought my vehicle build said i do

i have the lux spot, i think i do have a lsd
No, sorry... LSD's didn't show up until 20005...

Look under your spare tire cover. They sticker has all the RPO codes. You'll have 'G80' if you have an LSD...

Many members here have stated that Cadillac has a new differential to solve the whining problem so many of us have. Cadillac HQ AND my local delearship are totally denying any new part reguarding the rear differential. The service manager even went as far to say that Corporate said they would have never made a new rear diff. as MY car is the only CTS they've had with rear differential problems. :rant2:

When I told him I've been discussing this SAME problems with other members of an internet forum, he said the internet is full of misinformation, and that people can type whatever they want.

Why would Cadillac HQ still be denying that this problem exists to it's service managers??? Anyone having this problem please post the name and location of the dealer you are working on it with, so that I can give my delearship a list of legitimate complaints which he can verify with other service managers


hi,

Just spotted this, and it reminded me of something.

About a year ago, took my car in for oil/inspection; when they check the rear end, they found a lsmall eak. Apparently, GM knows about this, which was why the tech found it and fixed it. I was told that if this was not fixed, the rear end would eventually fail completely.

(I have a Canadian CTS..don't know if that makes a difference).