: Xf-r vs. Cts-v



blueovelwookie
06-25-09, 10:23 PM
money aside which one to buy and why.
be critical let it all out on this one, this coming monday is when i buy!


:want:

CadV
06-25-09, 10:26 PM
Coming to a CTS-V board and asking a bunch of V2 owners which one to buy is kind of silly.

Then to exclude money which is the biggest factor. 80k starting price loses my attention quick.

allklr
06-25-09, 10:33 PM
I thought the XFR was similarly priced to the CTS-V, I know the XKR is alot more. I was going to get XFR for a long time but when I heard of the V I just waited it out. IMO the XFR is a little more classy looking, The CTS-V is a big bully.

2Vast4U
06-25-09, 10:36 PM
CTS-V all the way!
Why? Well it's only got...

More hp, more tq.
Optional Manual
Better styling (in my opinion)
$20k less (but i'd go w the V even if they were the same price)
Easier and cheaper to modify
2nd Gen V (first gen of the XF-R, might have bugs...)
American Pride
Record setting performance

But it all depends on what you like better. If you love Jaguar then check it out, but every Jag i've had has more problems than an ex-wife.

Just know, if you buy the XF-R it won't be long before a new CTS-V comes by and kills your $90k Jag. And then how will you feel?

Seriously though, good luck! Hope you'll be joining the V club soon.

nynd
06-25-09, 10:37 PM
To look at both cars objectively, I think you need to look at the XF a little closer. Now that TATA has purchased the company, if you are planning to drive it into the ground, then repair/part cost might hurt the pocket book. If getting rid of it sooner than later, with Ford no longer involved, the resale value may suffer under the a company like TATA. Who knows their long term plans.

The XF-R is more of a refined car whereas the V looks more like an aggressive, get out of my way vehicle. The styling on the V is more sharper whereas the XF is more curvy. One thing that has always been an issue is Jaguar reliability. They have improved vastly but I think when you look at powertrain and maturity, the V with its 6.2 is tested and proven to take the abuse you can throw at it.

Just my initial thoughts... again, I think it depends on what your after. When I see an XF-R, I think of a older mature guy who is just about cruising the town knowing the power is there. The V is more of a younger guy who not only wants to know he has the power, but clearly show the power.

blueovelwookie
06-25-09, 11:16 PM
to all i am the younger guy who is going to send the cts-v to hennessey to get modded. with parts from w4m.
the main reason i was curious was for my wife.
we each get to get a new veh.
so bring it on as far as the opinions, please!
time is limited
:confused:

RWFJR
06-25-09, 11:18 PM
Just get a V2 and be done with it!

vperl
06-25-09, 11:19 PM
I thought the XFR was similarly priced to the CTS-V, I know the XKR is alot more. I was going to get XFR for a long time but when I heard of the V I just waited it out. IMO the XFR is a little more classy looking, The CTS-V is a big bully.

************************************

euro snobs probably would run for cover if they saw this V2 comming down the road, and have to hike up their diapers....

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/161355-2009-cts-v-dyno-video-541-a.html

blueovelwookie
06-25-09, 11:24 PM
my other question is the noise at idle from the idler pulley at idle?
so cts-v is what i should buy?
what do all of you think of hennessey performance?

vperl
06-25-09, 11:42 PM
my other question is the noise at idle from the idler pulley at idle?
so cts-v is what i should buy?
what do all of you think of Hennessey performance?
\&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

many V2 owners have opinions, I have none. Other than euro snobs can fish elsewhere, and complain about the V2 to others

CadV
06-26-09, 12:09 AM
blue if your serious about modding a V2 your about to buy it comes down to 2 things. Are you mechanically inclined and enjoy working on cars or prefer it done by someone else.

wait4me sells the individual parts while Hennessey sells the package. Don't get me wrong wait4me has a 4,000 dollar package as well that will give you around 600rwhp but he is the only one breaking up the parts and allows us to choose. Hennessey gives you are warranty which is a big plus. Hennessey has a rocky history but recently has turned things around and making customers happy. One guy on this board just bought the package from them and had nothing but great things to say.

A lot of us are experimenting with the mods, posting pictures, sharing experiences. The mods are new so there is a lot of experimenting going on.

Swapping pulleys does not affect the sound at idle and actually improves mpg. The sound will get louder at WOT.

blueovelwookie
06-26-09, 12:19 AM
i like the warranty that HPE offers, excellence is what i am after!
i might have to combine some of the w4f parts with HPH parts to achieve optimal performance. and i work at a machine shop, we build drag and circle track motors with great success! all lasting more than 4+ years.
but it is all old school performance, which is why i need opinions on the new school stuff.

CadV
06-26-09, 12:38 AM
i like the warranty that HPE offers, excellence is what i am after!
i might have to combine some of the w4f parts with HPH parts to achieve optimal performance. and i work at a machine shop, we build drag and circle track motors with great success! all lasting more than 4+ years.
but it is all old school performance, which is why i need opinions on the new school stuff.

The guts of the V2 have been around a lot of years so it is not too new school.

If your after the warranty get the Hennessey package and combine it with the 8.5" crank pulley from wait4me. That will put you at 15 pounds of boost and with the other components Hennessey offers will get you to 600rwhp. I would opt out of the headers though because the manifolds in this car rock. I hate the resonance headers create and would really bug the crap out of me in a luxury sedan.

I would use wait4me's tune.

Bear in mind though there is a big price difference between the wait4me and Hennessey packages so your gonna pay for the warranty.

blueovelwookie
06-26-09, 01:10 AM
it is not about the money. but true performance !!!!!!!!
:dammit:

CadV
06-26-09, 01:48 AM
:cookoo:

SlvrBullIT
06-26-09, 04:59 AM
Was looking over W4M, Lingenfelter, Hennessey, and see Hennessey being more expensive, by a wide margin, over the other 2.... but I live like 1 hour from Hennessey and many many hours from W4M or Lingenfelter...... BAH
Moreover, I don't know any good "performance" mechanics that would install for me if I ordered the parts...... screwed x2!!!!

cmicasa
06-26-09, 12:09 PM
To look at both cars objectively, I think you need to look at the XF a little closer. Now that TATA has purchased the company, if you are planning to drive it into the ground, then repair/part cost might hurt the pocket book. If getting rid of it sooner than later, with Ford no longer involved, the resale value may suffer under the a company like TATA. Who knows their long term plans.

The XF-R is more of a refined car whereas the V looks more like an aggressive, get out of my way vehicle. The styling on the V is more sharper whereas the XF is more curvy. One thing that has always been an issue is Jaguar reliability. They have improved vastly but I think when you look at powertrain and maturity, the V with its 6.2 is tested and proven to take the abuse you can throw at it.

Just my initial thoughts... again, I think it depends on what your after. When I see an XF-R, I think of a older mature guy who is just about cruising the town knowing the power is there. The V is more of a younger guy who not only wants to know he has the power, but clearly show the power.


Considering Cadillac is looking to attract a younger more affluent crowd I think that is a good thing.

Make mine a CTS-V, American and not Indian. Make mine a Cadillac, a car that I can rely on.:bouncy:

Fubar75207
06-26-09, 01:00 PM
The V is an awesome car but honestly, I felt like it's best characteristic was its Detroit heritage. It's time to start supporting the home team. I am very proud to be driving an American car again.

Krug Ford
06-26-09, 01:40 PM
Plus I have some in stock so you should by from me.

I have some discounted pricing.

ClovisQ
06-26-09, 06:11 PM
Will try this again... First attempt was denied due to including a hyperlink on my first site posting.

Wanted to add a bit of data to the concerns about reliability. Apparently Jag has got their overall act together about having long term dependable cars, but the XF in particular is having first year/first gen production issues. They claim to have them all figured out, but it's worth knowing about. Cut and paste the link below for info from the latest JD Power reports released on Weds.

wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/xf-lowers-jaguars-quality-ranking/

As for me, I like both cars, but my presence on this forum probably tells you which one I lean to. Actually looking for my own 6sp loaded non-black monster v to drive and will be bugging the dealers soon. Daily driver so won't be doing much of anything to modify it - I've got a sideoiler in a cobra at home that's much more fun to tinker with.

Hope to see you guys on the road soon.

Tony407
06-27-09, 07:02 AM
Having owned a 2009 Supercharged XF for 9 months, I consider myself well qualified and all-to-eager to comment on this thread. The XFR should be very comparable to the XF in most categories, with a few exceptions. The XFR has more hp and torque, a slightly stiffer suspension, a different transmission and rear differential, and a few exterior and interior tweaks (most notably different seats with more aggressive bolstering.)

As far as I'm concerned, here's some of the differences I've noticed:

The XF feels much lighter on its feet, the transmission (auto) is much more responsive, and the throttle is a ton more responsive. The ride is buttery smooth yet sufficiently stiff, so as not to feel like an "old person's car." The XF was targeted to a younger buyer, as compared to everything previously offered by Jaguar (it should be noted that I would have never ever considered owning a Jag before they came out with the XF.) Obviously, the V is much faster than the XF - yet the XF FEELS faster.

The V has a MUCH, MUCH better navigation system. However, the Bowers and Wilkins stereo in the Jag BLOWS the BOSE away. The dash on the V may be more cluttered, but the controls are more useful. For example, if you wanted to change the vent pattern on the Jag, you had to go into the climate control screen first, then select the vent(s). The upside to this is that you had more control over the vent patterns than on the V. And even though the Jag had a touch screen, it was fairly slow and cumbersome. It's nice to have dedicated controls for most everything right there on the dash with buttons to push rather than have to navigate through menus and so on.

I miss the radar cruise control of the Jag. It was pretty impressive. My only complaint was that there was no "conventional" cruise control option. It was radar or nothing. It would have been more useful to have had the choice between the two. My Infiniti had radar cruise, but it also had regular cruise as well. It seemed silly to only offer radar in the Jag.

The nighttime visibility of the Jag's headlights is quite good compared to the V, but then again the Jag doesn't have adaptive (swiveling) lighting. The adaptive lighting on the V is most impressive and follows the turns in the road with surprising ability.

Interior quality is undeniably better in the Jag, but by no means is the V cheap. Just cheaper in comparison. The Jag is quieter.

I had a chance to spend a day at the track in the Jag. It did remarkably well. It was superbly balanced, had predictable handling at the limits, awesome brakes, and the most incredible auto transmission I've ever driven. It held the gears and down shifted as if it were reading my mind. Having said all this, I have not (yet) taken the V to the track. I can't imagine being disappointed though from everything I've read and heard. One word: Nurburgring. I will however be looking forward to the first head-to-head comparison of the XFR and the V.

The V is definitely a car you feel younger in. The Jag was more mature, and I felt a little more "elite," for lack of a better word. The Jag got a TON of attention, and drew a lot of interest and comments. I've had only a few people comment on the V.

Aftermarket parts are not only much more plenty for the V, but when you can find them for the Jag, they're incredibly expensive. Most if not all need to be purchased from the UK. Last I checked, the only 2 decent aftermarket exhausts for the XF were about $2,400 U.S. dollars!

But the real kicker? The XF was a lemon. It was in the shop again and again and again. Replaced the rear windshield, computer, battery, fuel pump, fuel flap, headliner clips, many others - and more than once! Had numerous engine lights, suspension system failures, car failing to start, etc. I'm still fighting with Jaguar to give me my money back, although they've assured me "someone" is working on it. Too bad that "someone" refuses to call me and the only person I'm allowed to talk to isn't the decision maker. Bad Jaguar!

In all honestly, if I keep the V for 3 or 4 years (or more) I will probably look into a used XFR depending on their reliability record. Of course, who knows what cars will be introduced in the mean time that I will just have to have!!

At any rate, I loved the Jag to pieces. If it would have been reliable, I'd still be driving it and would probably be doing so for years. If you take away all the problems I had, it was the finest automobile I've had the pleasure of owning. I can only imagine the XFR would be more of the same.

Hope this helps.

Tony

vperl
06-27-09, 07:06 PM
The V is an awesome car but honestly, I felt like it's best characteristic was its Detroit heritage. It's time to start supporting the home team. I am very proud to be driving an American car again.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

screw the euro snobs, buy American Steel

2009 CTS-V

vperl
06-28-09, 03:17 AM
I really love it when a person with some other vehicle starts talking about their car and why it is so great, and along the way throws out a bone or two about how good the V2 is here or there.... but still mentioning their car is so great overall.
This may be true, but if the 2009 V2 cost another 20-25K or what ever over what many of us paid for our CTS-V the V would out shine all these wanna bees to the end. 20K in engine mods, and interior and exterior mods, and all sorts of fancy electronics.

GM gave us a vehicle that still beats these cars for 20-25K less..... Bless GM

Flavoade
06-28-09, 04:04 AM
I think the exterior styling of the XF could have been better. It is not 'Jaggy' enough. Every time I would spot one on the streets I would constantly mistake it for a Lexus GS.

You probably are not getting many comments on your V because it looks similar to the standard CTS. With so many of them around, people might mistake you as some dude with shiny rims and a body kit.

Tony407
06-28-09, 04:24 AM
You probably are not getting many comments on your V because it looks similar to the standard CTS. With so many of them around, people might mistake you as some dude with shiny rims and a body kit.

I had thought of this too. I agree completely.

Tony

vperl
06-28-09, 05:24 AM
I think the exterior styling of the XF could have been better. It is not 'Jaggy' enough. Every time I would spot one on the streets I would constantly mistake it for a Lexus GS.

You probably are not getting many comments on your V because it looks similar to the standard CTS. With so many of them around, people might mistake you as some dude with shiny rims and a body kit.

vv&8888888888888888888888888888888

Well, if that means the cops do not see what I am actually driving and they look at the Jag, mustang, M5, charger, challenger. and all the Par Mo, and every fast car around....

go for it.. I sneak in the day and snark at the night
invisiable day and night just another car blowing your doors off

RapidRob
06-28-09, 07:36 PM
The XF feels much lighter on its feet, the transmission (auto) is much more responsive, and the throttle is a ton more responsive. The ride is buttery smooth yet sufficiently stiff, so as not to feel like an "old person's car." The XF was targeted to a younger buyer, as compared to everything previously offered by Jaguar (it should be noted that I would have never ever considered owning a Jag before they came out with the XF.) Obviously, the V is much faster than the XF - yet the XF FEELS faster.

Tony

Sounds like you might want to consider the Wait4Me ECM/Auto tranny tune. From what I've read here, the tranny tune really helps with issues like the ones you mention above. Just sayin ...

Rob

Tony407
06-29-09, 12:26 AM
Sounds like you might want to consider the Wait4Me ECM/Auto tranny tune. From what I've read here, the tranny tune really helps with issues like the ones you mention above. Just sayin ...

Rob

Yeah, it's definitely worth considering. However, there's absolutely no detailed information on the Wait4Me website for me to read up on, and I just haven't had time to call Jesse yet. Hasn't there been some people with engine lights and other issues with the tune? It all just seems a little bit confusing with so many people chiming in about this tune and that tune, etc. and the lack of solid information. It's all a little overwhelming.

Tony

marktanner
06-29-09, 01:00 AM
I find this thread very interesting, because I just happened to drive an XF-R yesterday, as I help a friend purchase a new toy. I found TONY407's comments especially interesting. It was a short drive, as we were limited to five miles total, but fortunately the Jag dealer is around the corner from my house (it was formerly a Cadillac dealership!). I know the roads well, and we have some nice corners nearby, so we did have some fun.

First off, it IS a very nice car, and a pretty good value for $80K, if there is such a thing at that price. I was surprised that there were no options, and it is extremely well appointed and well equipped. It is more expensive looking than the V, for sure, which helps justify the extra money. It has more goodies, too. I loved the rear-view camera, but don't know about the lane departure feature or adaptive cruise control. The B&W audio was quite good, though I was blown away today by a Reference Recording CD I played on the Bose. The seats had most of the adjustments of the Recaro's on my V, though in my opinion they were not as comfortable nor as supportive as my seats. The interior ergonomics were not quite up to the V's standards, not that the V is perfect, but things were just more obscure and haphazardly placed on the Jag. I also felt that the rotary shifter was gimmicky, and not as intuitive as a standard shifter like that of the V.

The XF-R drives very differently from the V. The V has a lot more road feel, both in the steering and the suspension. The Jag drives more smoothly, but doesn't feel as connected to the road as the V. The V handles big bumps equally well, or even better than the Jag, however. The V is definitely faster, and has substantially more grip, not to mention more choices with handling attitude. It is much easier to slide the V, or let the tail hang out, while the Jag just stuck. While rapid, it just wasn't as much fun. Unlike what Tony407 found with his XF, I felt that the Jag felt a bit heavier, not lighter than the V, but that wasn't necessarily bad, just different.

In summary, the Jag is a very well finished and accomplished rapid gentlemen's express, and a very nice car. The V is more of a sports car, but still very luxurious and practical. I see the Jag's chief competition as the MB E63 AMG. I liked the Jag better, and similarly equipped is $20K+ cheaper. I think the V's competition is the M5, and we all know about that one. Of course, the V, at $60K without options, is the biggest bargain of the bunch, as well as the fastest. Plus, it's available with a stick, and it's easily, readily, and cheaply modified. The Jag is not that kind of car, though it is a great car in it's own right. Hard to say about the reliability. My '08 CTS was a lemon, too, but GM took good care of me, and so far, so good with my V this time around.

BigFred
06-29-09, 01:46 AM
If money was no object I would choose the Jag, ($10k difference otherwise, at $80k the Jag has no options).
- The V is faster and the magnetic shocks have no equal.
- I don't think the interior styling of the Jag has mass appeal, but if it speaks to you, it sure does feel special. It is truly a unique interior (I drove the XF Supercharged). The Bowers sound system is excellent (some hi fi mag rated it the best system in a car under 100k pounds)
- I could go on, but it really comes down to this for me: The Jag can hang with the big boys (M5, E63, CTS-V) but the V is still the fastest. You have to buy into the style (visual and driving) to go with the Jag.

rayainsw
06-30-09, 07:24 AM
Or this:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=151567

at $68K...?

vperl
06-30-09, 10:48 AM
Or this:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=151567

at $68K...?

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

that is the base price for the 68K XF 68 K

The SF-R is priced as the article says at 84K and is way slower and expensive, for the euro snob bunch to buy,

Go for it euro snobs

CadV
06-30-09, 11:10 AM
go for it euro snobs

rofl

rayainsw
06-30-09, 11:23 AM
R&T seems to thing the comparison is valid:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=8146

vperl
06-30-09, 03:31 PM
R&T seems to thing the comparison is valid:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=8146

***************************
I'll take the 24K I did not spend on the interior that is just fine with me
euro snobs go for it

greggbat
06-30-09, 11:23 PM
My opinion (for the $.002 it's worth- maybe overpriced at that) is that you should use the numbers for your initial evaluation and once you narrow it down drive them. Buy the one you like most after that. Buying a car is a very personal decision, especially for a car nut. Don't let someone else's opinion be your final deciding factor.

vperl
06-30-09, 11:53 PM
Buying a car is a very personal decision, especially for a car nut. Don't let someone else's opinion be your final deciding factor.

88888************************************
Correct, that is why I say, " euro snobs unite, go for it" As an American I perfer true American Steel

Others can buy the KIA, of the Jag, or what ever

greggbat
07-01-09, 12:28 AM
88888************************************
Correct, that is why I say, " euro snobs unite, go for it" As an American I perfer true American Steel

Others can buy the KIA, of the Jag, or what ever

Where did I say someone should buy one brand or another? If the V2 is your dream machine I'm happy for you. I didn't come here looking for a fight. But how can you call me a "euro snob" based on my last post?

vperl
07-01-09, 12:41 AM
I know you love your jag, be happy ..

I really care little where jagster come here and compare, and cry when they lose the comparison, even R&T says so.. not me's

be happy with your choice, I am very happy with mine, see you in my rear view...

SlvrBullIT
07-01-09, 01:03 AM
I don't think he is calling you a euro snob, per se. It's like Top Gear talking about American cars as "rubbish" even when they beat their cars hands down. It's a matter of taste, top gear dudes like their Jags, Ferrari's, semi-like their german counter parts but are still partial to interiors like Asians like rice. I'm sure if they could have it, they'd have this immaculate interior that served tea on a Rally car! In the end the CTS-V beats XFR but they still say JAG JAG JAG, hence the Euro trash comment, same as the Top Gear guys calling us Rubbish.... Think of it as a term of endearment :D

SlvrBullIT
07-01-09, 01:05 AM
Just think, 10K in mods...still puts CTS-V under XFR and you wouldn't see the XFR in the rear view, but for a split second...... Then it's gone. :D

greggbat
07-01-09, 01:08 AM
What's up with the name calling? Did I ever say that by the numbers the V2 isn't a better car? I don't own one because of subjective reasons. I did consider one but personally I prefer the look of the Jag. It's really the front end I don't care for. Is that a good reason not to buy a V2? Maybe, maybe not. But the bottom line is I won't let someone else make my decision for me.

For 2 years I owned a '05 CTS-V and a '05 Jaguar S-Type R. Neither were daily drivers. Both were incredible cars but when it was time to get rid of one because we needed the room (another kid with a license and car) and not putting more than 4,000 miles per year on either of them, we decided to keep the Jag. The Caddy had the performance edge but we still preferred the Jag.

I'm not anti-American Made. I currently own 10 American made vehicles. Only 1 import.

I also hope I haven't offended the other V owners. There are a lot of great people on this site. And the V is an awsome car. My first post in this thread was in response to the original question (XF-R vs. CTS-V). I think I am qualified to have an opinion on that.

SlvrBullIT
07-01-09, 01:24 AM
You do..... I still don't think he or I are calling you names. Apparently you haven't watched top gear. I've never been in or driven the XFR so I can't say one way or another, but 80K is......80K!!!!!!!! It better not just have a better, gimmicky interior or as good or less performance..... for 20K more. People can say all they want, "money doesn't matter"..... BULL$H!T it doesn't matter!!!!! IF XFR was 10K over CTS-V....nope wouldn't look at it, 5K over....maybe, but then Jaguar mods, service etc comes into play, still Cadillac wins in that category over Jag. If it were 5K under CTS-V, then their is a story!

SlvrBullIT
07-01-09, 01:27 AM
H0LY Shittake Mushrooms...
I currently own 10 American made vehicles. Only 1 import.

How big is your garage?!

SlvrBullIT
07-01-09, 01:30 AM
Maybe if I had you "wad" I'd get an XFR too :D

vperl
07-01-09, 01:34 AM
Where did I say someone should buy one brand or another? If the V2 is your dream machine I'm happy for you. I didn't come here looking for a fight. But how can you call me a "euro snob" based on my last post?

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

I was talking of euro snobs as a group, I never mentioned you, but if you feel you fit my description, I am sorry.....


Cool your jets big boy ...... jump in your jag and be happy

vperl
07-01-09, 01:37 AM
H0LY Shittake Mushrooms...

How big is your garage?!

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&


Blimp hanger

vperl
07-01-09, 01:42 AM
Maybe if I had you "wad" I'd get an XFR too :D


************************************************** **

not me unless the reliability of the jag is 10000% better

Get a nice little 2010 Camaro SS2 a fun car and not spendy either......

loads of bang for the buck

SlvrBullIT
07-01-09, 02:18 AM
^^^^^
True, so true. Had the last model year SS before this one, got it for 25K... Was a good bang for the buck at the time :D

BLIMP HANGER LMAO :D

Tony407
07-01-09, 02:31 AM
Where did I say someone should buy one brand or another? If the V2 is your dream machine I'm happy for you. I didn't come here looking for a fight. But how can you call me a "euro snob" based on my last post?

The first time I read Vperl's post, the thought that his comment was meant for you didn't even cross my mind, until I read your response that is. I don't think it was, but maybe I'm wrong.

Tony

vperl
07-01-09, 02:48 AM
The first time I read Vperl's post, the thought that his comment was meant for you didn't even cross my mind, until I read your response that is. I don't think it was, but maybe I'm wrong.

Tony

****************

it was meant for Tony, and he was not even in the thread, and probably does not own a jag, but I may be wrong...

vperl
07-01-09, 02:51 AM
^^^^^
True, so true. Had the last model year SS before this one, got it for 25K... Was a good bang for the buck at the time :D

BLIMP HANGER LMAO :D

*************************************************


OK, the 2010 2SS Camaro is a LSA also with brembo.....

saw a bumble Bee at a local dealer and it was Pre-sold....

nice looking..... every cop in town is looking to give the owner a ticket....

Gotham CTS-V
07-01-09, 09:03 AM
*************************************************


OK, the 2010 2SS Camaro is a LSA also with brembo.....

saw a bumble Bee at a local dealer and it was Pre-sold....

nice looking..... every cop in town is looking to give the owner a ticket....


Isn't the Camaro SS an LS3 or are there plans for an upcoming LSA?

vperl
07-01-09, 11:20 AM
Isn't the Camaro SS an LS3 or are there plans for an upcoming LSA?

***********************************************

not sure I maybe wrong all I know is it is a 6.2 liter 16 valve V8 for sure

and 400Hp at5900 RPM
Avg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPM
Avg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPMAvg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPMAvg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPMAvg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPM Avg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPM378 Ci / 6199 Cc 410 Pounds Per Foot @ 4,300 RPM

Bore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 Inches displacement 378 Ci / 6199 Cc

Gotham CTS-V
07-01-09, 05:30 PM
***********************************************

not sure I maybe wrong all I know is it is a 6.2 liter 16 valve V8 for sure

and 400Hp at5900 RPM
Avg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPM
Avg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPMAvg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPMAvg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPMAvg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPM Avg Steering Diameter:37.7 FeetBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesCompression Ratio:10.4:1Displacement:378 Ci / 6199 CcFinal Drive Ratio:3.27:1Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio:Not ListedHorsepower:400 HP @ 5,900 RPM378 Ci / 6199 Cc 410 Pounds Per Foot @ 4,300 RPM

Bore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 InchesBore x Stroke:4.06 x 3.62 Inches displacement 378 Ci / 6199 Cc

Straight from the C6 Vette bro, LS3. Our LSA's are LS3's on steroids :cool2:

1BlinkGone
07-01-09, 06:45 PM
I dunno. IMHO the 2010 XFR is a stunner, and the 510 hp it offers is a BIG plus. I also love the styling of it.

As far as both of your prospects: Each car has its own thing going on, & decidedly different. I don't think you will go wrong with either one. The CTS-V is what it is, (& on its own terms mind you), both in performance & styling. Angular & aggressive styling- Sort of an F117 that is real pissed off, with just enough class for respectability as entire 'package'... especially since it has current bragging rights at the German track. I love it.

The XFR just exudes 'class' in a different vein. I think both are beautiful cars, but I give the nod to the Jag for beauty queen between the two here. Something else- Today's new Jag's are probably the best, most reliable, and best engineered Jaguars ever made in the history of the company.

All in all, it's what moves you when you: both when you see it in person, and when you get behind the wheel and drive it. In all this, and I don't care what you drive, there will ALWAYS be somebody faster than you are. ALWAYS. I learned that years ago in my HotRod days. If you have the type of ego that always has to have the fastest, you will never be happy with anything. EVER.

So resolve to formulate what YOU want out of a car, how far at the outer limits you expect your car to perform and those factors within (performance, comfort, etc) your budget & what you are comfortable with spending if you have the means, and go from there.

For simple bang for buck, I don't think ANYTHING in its tier can compete with the CTS-V for it's price point... not by a country mile. The XFR fully-loaded is roughly $25k+ more.

In all honestly, none of us here matter in your decision, as the car is for YOU.

For me, I will have both of those cars in my garage in the near future. I'd probably grab the V first. Maybe not. Go drive both and have fun.

Tony407
07-01-09, 10:28 PM
Something else- Today's new Jag's are probably the best, most reliable, and best engineered Jaguars ever made in the history of the company.


You mean all Jaguar's except the XF! Last year Jaguar's long term reliability was tied for 1st place, above the likes of Toyota, Honda, Lexus, etc. However, in one year, the XF's first year model troubles has brought them down from tied to 1st to near the bottom of the list. This was because the XF's sales accounted for such a large portion of Jaguar's total car sales. All too unfortunately, I can relate to this personally because of my horrible experience with my 2009 XF.

I can only hope that with the 2010 model year, the XFR might have some of those problems ironed out. Although, I really haven't seen or heard of any reassurances and it's too early to tell. But also keep in mind that the XFR has a completely new engine, transmission and rear differential vs. the 2009 XF model.

These are the main reasons I decided to walk away from Jaguar and give the V a try over the 2010 XFR, even though Jaguar offered me one at a discount.

Tony

neuronbob
07-01-09, 11:14 PM
What's with all the namecalling and "euro-snob" stuff earlier in the thread? The XFR is a GORGEOUS car, just in a different way from our V. I passed by one on the freeway on the way home from work tonight. Unfortunately, the freeway was too crowded to take him for a spirited run, but we exchanged thumb's ups. I am hopeful that once the first-year gremlins are ironed out, this particular Jag will be a superstar.

The V is awesome bang for the buck, though, no question about it, I certainly love mine, and am happy to have bought American this time.

CadV
07-01-09, 11:19 PM
In my opinion the OP was a troll anyway time for this thread to go bye bye.

Tony407
07-02-09, 02:33 AM
In my opinion the OP was a troll anyway time for this thread to go bye bye.

Blueovalwookie a troll? Where did that come from?

Tony

1BlinkGone
07-07-09, 05:57 PM
You mean all Jaguar's except the XF! Last year Jaguar's long term reliability was tied for 1st place, above the likes of Toyota, Honda, Lexus, etc. However, in one year, the XF's first year model troubles has brought them down from tied to 1st to near the bottom of the list. This was because the XF's sales accounted for such a large portion of Jaguar's total car sales. All too unfortunately, I can relate to this personally because of my horrible experience with my 2009 XF.

I can only hope that with the 2010 model year, the XFR might have some of those problems ironed out. Although, I really haven't seen or heard of any reassurances and it's too early to tell. But also keep in mind that the XFR has a completely new engine, transmission and rear differential vs. the 2009 XF model.

These are the main reasons I decided to walk away from Jaguar and give the V a try over the 2010 XFR, even though Jaguar offered me one at a discount.

Tony

That's a sad tale, bro. Sorry to hear of your problems. Unfortunately, as you know, many 1st-production-year autos have numerous bugs to iron-out. It sucks. I'm really wanting to order a new 2010 XJ sedan for the missus, but I may wait a year for that very reason.

What specific issues did your XF have, if I may ask?

CadV- to me the OP was straightfwd enough. I'm curious as to what his choice was.

Tony407
07-07-09, 06:48 PM
What specific issues did your XF have, if I may ask?


Many problems, unfortunately.

Check out post #21 on page 2 of this thread.

1BlinkGone
07-07-09, 07:04 PM
Many problems, unfortunately.

Check out post #21 on page 2 of this thread.

Ech. Bad foogoo. Those kind of reports sound just like the Jaguar of yesteryear. I'm wondering just how many XF owners have tanked in their enthusiasm because of similar issues? You seem to indicate that there are plenty. Sorry to hear that, Tony. It is a beautiful sedan... hopefully, they will iron-out the bugs.

stevenash71
07-07-09, 07:06 PM
guys, this is not even worth discussing. A good friend of mine just purchased one and he let me take it out and its not even close. I must admit though it does have some nice lines but even the looks are not as nice as the Vs. The power is ok but does not pull like ours. :tisk:

1BlinkGone
07-07-09, 07:19 PM
guys, this is not even worth discussing. A good friend of mine just purchased one and he let me take it out and its not even close. I must admit though it does have some nice lines but even the looks are not as nice as the Vs. The power is ok but does not pull like ours. :tisk:

Sure-it is worth discussing, but we are discussing two different, 'disimilar' pedigrees. It's definitely not an apples and apples comparison between the two, to be sure- esp not with a 40+ hp advantage. For my $$ nobody can touch the CTS-V esp. at the price point its offered. I can't wait to get mine.

Steve- how is that wheel & tire combo settling-in with you?

stevenash71
07-07-09, 11:06 PM
Sure-it is worth discussing, but we are discussing two different, 'disimilar' pedigrees. It's definitely not an apples and apples comparison between the two, to be sure- esp not with a 40+ hp advantage. For my $$ nobody can touch the CTS-V esp. at the price point its offered. I can't wait to get mine.

Steve- how is that wheel & tire combo settling-in with you?

Im loving it. Its everything I expected. The ride is great and there are no problem. Just need to lower it and im done. Thanks for asking:banana:

CIWS
07-10-09, 02:27 PM
Some comments from Jag I found interesting as they were speaking about the rollout of the new XJ.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/autos/0907/gallery.2010_jaguar_xj_reveal/index.html

"We have had a small number of really irritating consumer problems with XF," O'Driscoll conceded. "We dealt with them quickly and we've moved on."
The first 2010 XJ's, slated to enter dealerships late this year, will be problem free, he promised.


Sounds like I need an XJ. A problem free car would be muy bueno. http://www.ciws.net/smiles/mex.gif







;)

neuronbob
08-27-09, 11:08 AM
Read more here....

http://www.freep.com/article/20090826/COL14/908270421/1318/Jaguar-provides-comfort--Cadillac-is-flashy--fast


Forget business school. If you want to accelerate your understanding of how design and engineering distill the essence of a brand, go for m.p.h., not an MBA.

Today's case study: a pair of high-performance luxury sedans, the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V and 2010 Jaguar XFR.

Boiled down to their specifications, the two cars look nearly interchangeable. Each has room for five passengers, a 500-horsepower-plus supercharged V8 engine, and various advanced features.

You'd think the choice came down to a coin toss. Six of one, a half dozen of the other and who's offering the better lease?

funkcity
08-29-09, 12:17 AM
The Jag has some very nice Aston Martin angles and for a 2 plus 2 has quite a handsome side and rear sleek profile..... however,
The front end and grill just look like a huge mistake or a prototype or something.
Good car flawed front end.
The technology part was gleaned from the former S-Type R... a very refined motor with 6 speed ZF trans.

The CTS-V looks boxy in comparison but it does kick ass!
The competition Pratt and Miller Vs of a few years ago had a killer low stance that has not been copied or refined in the new Vs.

wfo
08-29-09, 12:26 PM
The 09 CTS-V is about as refined as you can get. Magnetic Ride Control...GM spent millions developing this suspension. Nurbergring track record in a 4k+ pound car, spanked the M5 (see the YouTube version) costing similarly as the Jag, with BMW having a much better perfomance proven record over the Jag.

The Jag looks nice. But it will always be a Jag and not everybody is fond of non American muscle. Hey, you have to sleep at night. Just kidding on the sleeping hyperbole. Wouldn't you be screaming and hooting with every press of the right foot in the V. It's a real beast!

In the end, it's your money. But do choose wisely.