: 600 hp M5!



NormV
06-25-09, 08:49 PM
The V and M5 are close now in just about every category with the M5 being down 50 hp. Now it sounds like they are adding 100hp. Wonder is the V-series will be around for GM to deliver a counter punch? :)

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/25/report-next-bmw-m5-to-feature-twin-turbo-v10-with-600-hp/

Norm

Luna.
06-25-09, 09:07 PM
The V and M5 are close now in just about every category with the M5 being down 50 hp. Now it sounds like they are adding 100hp. Wonder is the V-series will be around for GM to deliver a counter punch? :)

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/25/report-next-bmw-m5-to-feature-twin-turbo-v10-with-600-hp/

Norm


Yes.

Rodya234
06-25-09, 09:21 PM
And so it begins, the inevitable game of cat and mouse, in which the role of the cat is always changing.

It's good for Cadillac though, at least now they won't be competing with Lincoln, who has nothing of interest. Rather they're competing with a company that is renowned for its performance cars.

CadV
06-25-09, 09:31 PM
Competition is a good thing. Future M5 owners will be tweaking the Turbos. But still GM has a lot of room to create more power with the V2. Look at the mods people are doing with a couple pulley swaps you can get close to 600rwhp.

vperl
06-25-09, 10:50 PM
Well, well, I suspect if the V2 cost another 40K the M5 would be still in the mud for years......GM might have dropped in the biggie engine with 6 lobe supercharger, and all the ZR-! running gear and such.......

But, that is a car that I would, could not get that interested in popping for the way over 100K ... all those that want a V2 to compete with a R8 , please open up their checkbooks, and dump their 401K

CadV
06-25-09, 11:00 PM
Well, well, I suspect if the V2 cost another 40K the M5 would be still in the mud for years......GM might have dropped in the biggie engine with 6 lobe supercharger, and all the ZR-! running gear and such.......

But, that is a car that I would, could not get that interested in popping for the way over 100K ... all those that want a V2 to compete with a R8 , please open up their checkbooks, and dump their 401K

If I am dropping 100k on something I want the ZR1 :P

SlvrBullIT
06-26-09, 04:03 AM
^^^^
Agreed!!!! Love the videos I've seen so far of the ZR1
100k Chedda though..... eesh

Gary Wells
06-26-09, 10:16 AM
It will be a while before 100K will buy you a ZR1.

The Tony Show
06-26-09, 10:35 AM
They'll need a lot more than an extra 50hp to match the V- specifically, better front end bite on initial cornering and more responsive steering. 0-60 acceleration wasn't the only place the V was superior in the comparison tests.

Lord Cadillac
06-26-09, 11:11 AM
I would be flabbergasted if BMW didn't one up with CTS-V with their next M5. It would just make no sense at all. That would, in essence, be BMW giving up. I wonder if Cadillac will keep upping the ante along with them...

vperl
06-26-09, 11:19 AM
GM does not want to sell a PLUS 100K V2

but I maybe wrong....

This new M5 has to be way above 100K ..look at the cost now....

like mentioned above they still have many other things to change......

mileage may vay

atdeneve
06-26-09, 11:38 AM
They'll need a lot more than an extra 50hp to match the V- specifically, better front end bite on initial cornering and more responsive steering. 0-60 acceleration wasn't the only place the V was superior in the comparison tests.

I'm not too sure that that particular Motor Trend test you're referring to, and the test vehicle in it, is representative of the E60 M5's handling. If anything, the E60 M5s are more commonly known to have a relatively loose rear end, with a propensity to oversteer...

That particular M5's alignment could have given the vehicle a totally different characteristic.

Krug Ford
06-26-09, 04:46 PM
Look at the mods you could do to the V and make it a super car like the ZR1... You can get over 600 with some mods..

neuronbob
06-26-09, 07:44 PM
I am QUITE sure Caddy will tweak the V2 to match the M5. The V brings notice and prestige to Cadillac and, by extension, to GM. It would be such a bad move for GM to sit on the V's laurels.

I hope this game of cat and mouse with BMW lasts quite some time, new CAFE rules or no. You can also be sure that the V will continue to be the value leader in the supersedan world. That is, after all, what led me to Caddy and the V--bang for buck.

RapidRob
06-26-09, 10:30 PM
^^^ X2 - exactly. Well said, my sentiments as well ..

Rob

poor-sha
06-28-09, 08:33 AM
While I'm not someone claiming the end of the v2 I seriously doubt that GM is going to invest engineering resources to upping the power in the V2 in the near future. I think the disbanding of HPVO demonstrates that this is just not their focus right now.

However, I would be interested in seeing a side by side dyno graph of an LSA and a LS9. Does the LS9 give up some low end grunt to the LSA?

Low_ET
06-28-09, 08:43 AM
The official SAE Dyno graph of the Vette's LS9 is at:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2010/gmna/HPT%20Library/Gen%20IV/Gen%20IV%20Car/2010%2062L%20LS9%20ZR1_SAE_n.pdf

The CTS-V's Official Dyno is:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2010/gmna/HPT%20Library/Gen%20IV/Gen%20IV%20Car/2010_62L_LSA_CTSV.pdf

You can find GM engine and transmission specs, and lots of fun stuff at:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2010/gmna/10car_us.htm

Engine and Transmission photos at:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/photos/f_actual/powertrain.html

edsuski
06-28-09, 08:58 AM
While I'm not someone claiming the end of the v2 I seriously doubt that GM is going to invest engineering resources to upping the power in the V2 in the near future. I think the disbanding of HPVO demonstrates that this is just not their focus right now.

However, I would be interested in seeing a side by side dyno graph of an LSA and a LS9. Does the LS9 give up some low end grunt to the LSA?

How much engineering would it really take to increase the boost just enough to add 8.8% for 605 hp just to keep the hp crown? Or for that matter - charger 10K more for an LS9 option with 625+ hp?

Luna.
06-28-09, 08:02 PM
The official SAE Dyno graph of the Vette's LS9 is at:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2010/gmna/HPT%20Library/Gen%20IV/Gen%20IV%20Car/2010%2062L%20LS9%20ZR1_SAE_n.pdf

The CTS-V's Official Dyno is:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2010/gmna/HPT%20Library/Gen%20IV/Gen%20IV%20Car/2010_62L_LSA_CTSV.pdf

You can find GM engine and transmission specs, and lots of fun stuff at:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2010/gmna/10car_us.htm

Engine and Transmission photos at:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/photos/f_actual/powertrain.html

Very, very cool.

Thanks for the links

NapperV
06-29-09, 01:45 PM
Bring it on!!! My dealer will do the labor under warratte.....and i'll be happy to smoke the bad boy 600 TT M5

they are so worried at MB and Bmw....you should read their boards.


Jesse Bubb to the rescue. Let those snobs pay 100k while i have superior suspension and almost 600 rwhp covered under warrantee

thos m and Amg drivers are so dic k less....... pencilnecks. In America we do it our way. and i for one like it.

Fubar75207
06-29-09, 02:18 PM
oui.

vperl
06-29-09, 04:45 PM
Bring it on!!! My dealer will do the labor under warratte.....and i'll be happy to smoke the bad boy 600 TT M5

they are so worried at MB and Bmw....you should read their boards.


Jesse Bubb to the rescue. Let those snobs pay 100k while i have superior suspension and almost 600 rwhp covered under warrantee

thos m and Amg drivers are so dic k less....... pencilnecks. In America we do it our way. and i for one like it.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

euro snob go fish I took the 40K and had a series of parties

liqidvenom
07-10-09, 09:52 PM
not to be that guy making sense here but a m5 isnt the natural competitor for a cts-v, its just that the cts-v is so much faster then its natural competitors ( ie m3/rs4/c63/is-f).

I don't see gm doing anything to combat any changes done to the m5 since bmw isn't building a cts-v killer.

not taking anything away from any car since the cts-v is just so nasty it doesnt need to do much until its true competition steps up to it's level.

Razorecko
07-10-09, 10:05 PM
^ true about the mb owners/bmw. At first they all laughed and mocked the "old mans' sports car" now on their forums all you'll hear them say is how wickedly fast the V is and how they got smoked on the highway.

caddynoob
07-11-09, 03:40 AM
Price wise, the V is certainly heading against M3, C63, IS-F. In terms of size, it is closer to the M5/E63. I would say that it is competing in both markets.

It is safe to assume that the next gen F10 M5 will have no less than 555HP, since it shouldn't have less power tha tn the X5/X6 M. 600hp is certainly plausible and with in reach. It would be interesting to see if they stick with the same twin turbo 4.4 V8 or choose to use a twin turbo V10. BMW has a 6.6L TT V12 for the Royce Rolls. Maybe they have a modular design that can easily turn into a 5.5L V10? But that would also add too much weight to the front. Sticking with the V8 makes more sense.

In either case, the M5 is likely still 1.5 years away from hitting the showroom floor. GM could simply give V another 50hp then.

marktanner
07-11-09, 12:53 PM
GM could easily up the ante if they wanted to. They could even do a super sedan above the V, say a CTS-VR1. Add the ZR1 engine, ceramic brakes, bigger tires and fender flares or AWD to increase traction, maybe a trick differential, massage the suspension, maybe some carbon body panels (roof, hood to start) and voila! A car that could beat any Porsche, BMW, AMG, Audi super sedan for probably $100K. Most of this stuff already exists or would be easy to do. Continue with the current V, which is more than adequate for most people and more affordable. Sort of like the Corvette Z06/ZR1 combination. Covers all bases.

I doubt this will happen given GM's current finances and government ownership, but if GM wanted to respond to enhanced competition, it would be a great strategy.

Luna.
07-11-09, 01:11 PM
I doubt this will happen given GM's current finances and government ownership, but if GM wanted to respond to enhanced competition, it would be a great strategy.

I don't think you're looking at the BK in the right light; that was a GOOD thing in my mind--a very good thing.

They will emerge from this stronger than they have been since the early '70s...

kencav
07-11-09, 01:16 PM
Why doesn't GM just pair with a respected tuner/vendor like Hennesey, Lingfelter, or even Jess and develope a dealer installed "v" package FULLY BACKED BY OUR GM WARRANTY - this way we could always outperform our competitors- call it what you want- Subaru has been doing this with the STI- Mini does this with the John Cooper S Works package. Everybody wins and the issue of warranty becomes a "non-issue"

vperl
07-11-09, 09:13 PM
Why doesn't GM just pair with a respected tuner/vendor like Hennesey, Lingfelter, or even Jess and develope a dealer installed "v" package FULLY BACKED BY OUR GM WARRANTY - this way we could always outperform our competitors- call it what you want- Subaru has been doing this with the STI- Mini does this with the John Cooper S Works package. Everybody wins and the issue of warranty becomes a "non-issue"


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

call Bob Lutz

sounds good to me

caddiedrummer
07-11-09, 09:51 PM
3 months ago I would have sworn the big motor cars were dead. In fact, I talked my wife into a 2009 Viper assuring her it was the last year. Yesterday, Dodge announces Viper will be built for 2010 and beyond.

The V will be around and the ZR-1 may be the best car I have driven. I drove a top GM execs ZR-1 a month ago when I was buying one of his cars, and was absolutley amazed.