: anyone iPhone 3.0 yet?



814V
06-17-09, 04:44 PM
i cant believe the hype they brought behind this and none of the cool features are available. still no mms, no internet teather.. meh is all i can say

Playdrv4me
06-17-09, 04:53 PM
I'm not going to bother. I have an aftermarket tethering application with Jailbreak and I am not going to risk losing it over some less than stellar features. PASS.

The iPhone 3G"S" by the way is a joke. Still no Camera Flash, or web Flash. The only good thing about it is just more storage space for the same amount of money.

I'll probably upgrade the hardware when they finally increase the pixel density to the level my old Treo 755P or Nokia 770 Internet Tablet had (absolutely GORGEOUS screens).

eXile
06-17-09, 05:13 PM
HTC Touch Pro



Nuff said.

gary88
06-17-09, 06:17 PM
Downloading it right now.

AMGoff
06-17-09, 07:10 PM
What are you talking about? MMS and internet tether are included in this update... along with other much needed things, such as cut/copy/paste.

Anyway... I'm currently downloading right now. I should have done so at work - would have been done in about 5 minutes. Anyway, I'm looking forward to it... even though I won't be able to take advantage of the MMS since I'm still on the original iPhone, but I really couldn't care less about that... I barely send texts as it is, let alone pictures and videos.

Either way... I'm just happy Apple has graced us original adoptees with the update.

Jesda
06-17-09, 07:30 PM
iPhone - Its like jumping into a time machine set for 2005. What a joke.

Playdrv4me
06-17-09, 08:17 PM
internet tether are included

What are the details of the tethering, is it monitored for data use, speed limited or anything like that?

I don't use PDANet very much, but the nice thing is that with the amount of data the iphone sucks in and spits out every day just with normal use, PDANet flies COMPLETELY under the radar.

ejguillot
06-17-09, 09:30 PM
I'm not going to bother. I have an aftermarket tethering application with Jailbreak and I am not going to risk losing it over some less than stellar features. PASS.

The iPhone 3G"S" by the way is a joke. Still no Camera Flash, or web Flash. The only good thing about it is just more storage space for the same amount of money.

I'll probably upgrade the hardware when they finally increase the pixel density to the level my old Treo 755P or Nokia 770 Internet Tablet had (absolutely GORGEOUS screens).

Ian,

So there's no web Flash. Can you tell me if any of the other smartphones on the market support Flash?

And I'll take the autofocus/better low light performance over a camera flash.
Oh, and 3 Megapixels is enough - I think that stuffing 8MP into a phone with a lens set the size of a small dot is just a joke. If you don't know why, do a search on "Megapixel myth".

BTW, if you think the only advantage the "S" model offers over the 3G is more storage space, go read up some. 2x CPU performance (which is probably conservative. 50% faster clock + 2x instructions issued per clock + L2 cache = at least 2x, 3x on some instruction sets), 7x GPU performance, better battery life, the abovementioned camera, and other bits, the "S" model is a nice evolution to the iPhone line. Note that the "S" shares the same CPU/GPU as the Palm Pre.

As for no tethering or MMS, blame AT&T (the iPhone supports those now in other markets with other carriers).

I'm planning on getting a 3G S in the next 60 days or so.

Playdrv4me
06-17-09, 09:51 PM
Ian,

So there's no web Flash. Can you tell me if any of the other smartphones on the market support Flash?

And I'll take the autofocus/better low light performance over a camera flash.
Oh, and 3 Megapixels is enough - I think that stuffing 8MP into a phone with a lens set the size of a small dot is just a joke. If you don't know why, do a search on "Megapixel myth".

BTW, if you think the only advantage the "S" model offers over the 3G is more storage space, go read up some. 2x CPU performance (which is probably conservative. 50% faster clock + 2x instructions issued per clock + L2 cache = at least 2x, 3x on some instruction sets), 7x GPU performance, better battery life, the abovementioned camera, and other bits, the "S" model is a nice evolution to the iPhone line. Note that the "S" shares the same CPU/GPU as the Palm Pre.

As for no tethering or MMS, blame AT&T (the iPhone supports those now in other markets with other carriers).

I'm planning on getting a 3G S in the next 60 days or so.

Web Flash is a BIG deal and "they don't do it so we don't have to" has NEVER been the way Apple operates. Right now the iphone has the BEST mobile web browser on the market HANDS DOWN crippled ONLY because of the lack of Flash compatibility. I have used every other smartphone browser on the market and none of them hold a candle to Safari in the iphone.

You'll take autofocus/lowlight performance over a flash? In your world settling might be OKAY, but in my world I know technology can do BOTH at a relatively low cost. Why bother settling? There have been MORE TIMES than I can COUNT where the "low light performance" of the iphone (which DOES have a GREAT camera) has not been sufficient for pictures even in average lit rooms. A small xenon flash would be JUST the fill i would have needed for a quick shot.

And if there's anything I DON'T care about, it's MORE CPU speed in the iphone. I still don't have Flash video right? So speed is the LAST thing on my mind iphone-wise. It is already PLENTY fast as it is and the "S" for speed is nothing but a marketing gimmick meant to maintain a hold on the market and divert attention away from the Pre until the next REAL -meat and potatoes- iPhone hardware arrives. Sure the numbers may be there in spades, but it's a phone, not a PC.

If you own a current 3G iphone and you got sucked in by the "S" hype than you are a sucker plain and simple. If you DON'T have a 3G already, then by ALL means buy a 3G"S". It's a great deal for new contracts and I wouldn't pass it up over the 100.00 difference between the old 3G and the 3G"S", but I'm also not gonna be an Apple Sheeple and go blow 400.00 on one just to have the latest and greatest in a current contract.

You somehow misunderstood my post as knocking the iphone, which is completely incorrect. My point is that as far as I'm concerned the 3G as I have it with PDANet is already more than sufficient for my needs. Why am I going to blow what I've got going just because I want the latest-greatest firmware, or worse, the latest Apple toy.

I can tether just fine with PDANet by the way, so whatever AT&T is or isn't doing is of little concern to me. Until someone jailbreaks 3.0, or if Adam confirms it does Tethering now on ATTs network, I'm not going to give up the freedom I have with my jailbroken (and stable) 2xx firmware. http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/thumb_redface.gif

Jesda
06-17-09, 10:13 PM
We're talking about a couple different flashes here.

My Blackberry has a camera flash.

I don't understand why anyone is talking about megapixels. Its not the issue.

iowasevillests
06-17-09, 11:06 PM
I'm perfectly content with my Blackberry and my rather portable laptop. My browser does everything I need for me, and when I need to spend more time on the net I pull out the lapto.

Playdrv4me
06-17-09, 11:16 PM
I'm perfectly content with my Blackberry and my rather portable laptop. My browser does everything I need for me, and when I need to spend more time on the net I pull out the lapto.

Credit where credit is due, the Blackberry platform is probably the biggest threat to the iPhone right now. Why? Because RIM spreads the basic architecture amongst a VAST array of models on multiple carriers. The Storm however is an absolute laughing stock. The Blackberry thrives with its keyboard based architecture... WHY RIM felt they HAD to make a touch based device is beyond me. :rolleyes:

That being said, like yourself I used to be content to bring a laptop with me when I needed more power than my smartphone could handle on the web.

The beauty of the iPhone however, and where it REALLY shines (enough for me to forgive its many other shortcomings here and there), is in the flawless integration of the Safari browser and the smooth easy to use interface it has in browser mode. There is almost NO page (except for something that uses alot of Flash) that I can NOT view comfortably on my iPhone. It really is the FIRST smartphone I've ever owned that has a STRONG and capable web browser I can ALWAYS count on to work, EVEN with Secure Socket Layer based websites such as Banking etc. Back in the day I used to have to wait til I was near an internet enabled PC somewhere to do price checks on items when I was out and about shopping or comparing prices... Now I can whip out the iphone and check ebay, amazon and other sites QUICKLY and accurately AND comfortably. Comfortable is key... other phone browsers have always made me feel cramped and boxed in.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-17-09, 11:26 PM
iPhone - Its like jumping into a time machine set for 2005. What a joke.

Excuse me Gulati, but I believe your Blackberry came out first....


I'm downloading 3.0 now.

Lord Cadillac
06-17-09, 11:46 PM
I'm downloading 3.0 now for my first generation iPhone. I'm picking up my 3GS Friday morning.

Playdrv4me
06-17-09, 11:54 PM
I'm downloading 3.0 now for my first generation iPhone. I'm picking up my 3GS Friday morning.

You should definitely post up a quick review when you've used it for a bit. I think upgrading iPhone Gen 1 to a 3GS makes perfect sense, as it gets you broadband, the space increase and all accumulated updates in one fell swoop. It's 3G to 3GS in-contract that's of little value as far as I'm concerned.

Lord Cadillac
06-18-09, 12:02 AM
You should definitely post up a quick review when you've used it for a bit. I think upgrading iPhone Gen 1 to a 3GS makes perfect sense, as it gets you broadband, the space increase and all accumulated updates in one fell swoop. It's 3G to 3GS in-contract that's of little value as far as I'm concerned.
I'll post reviews... No problem. And I agree with you on 3G and 3GS. I didn't even upgrade to 3G (which is very unlike me) because I didn't feel it was enough of an upgrade. Though the speaker volume was certainly an incentive... At any rate - I think a 3G with the 3.0 operating system is just fine. If I had a 3G, I would NOT upgrade until next year when whatever comes next is out...

ga_etc
06-18-09, 03:59 AM
I don't have an iPhone but have considered getting one. My gripes with phone is the lack of video recording, multimedia messaging, and the unusually low volume from the speaker for ringtones and music. If all of that is corrected I may spend the money to get one.

ejguillot
06-18-09, 10:26 AM
Web Flash is a BIG deal and "they don't do it so we don't have to" has NEVER been the way Apple operates. Right now the iphone has the BEST mobile web browser on the market HANDS DOWN crippled ONLY because of the lack of Flash compatibility. I have used every other smartphone browser on the market and none of them hold a candle to Safari in the iphone.

You'll take autofocus/lowlight performance over a flash? In your world settling might be OKAY, but in my world I know technology can do BOTH at a relatively low cost. Why bother settling? There have been MORE TIMES than I can COUNT where the "low light performance" of the iphone (which DOES have a GREAT camera) has not been sufficient for pictures even in average lit rooms. A small xenon flash would be JUST the fill i would have needed for a quick shot.

And if there's anything I DON'T care about, it's MORE CPU speed in the iphone. I still don't have Flash video right? So speed is the LAST thing on my mind iphone-wise. It is already PLENTY fast as it is and the "S" for speed is nothing but a marketing gimmick meant to maintain a hold on the market and divert attention away from the Pre until the next REAL -meat and potatoes- iPhone hardware arrives. Sure the numbers may be there in spades, but it's a phone, not a PC.

If you own a current 3G iphone and you got sucked in by the "S" hype than you are a sucker plain and simple. If you DON'T have a 3G already, then by ALL means buy a 3G"S". It's a great deal for new contracts and I wouldn't pass it up over the 100.00 difference between the old 3G and the 3G"S", but I'm also not gonna be an Apple Sheeple and go blow 400.00 on one just to have the latest and greatest in a current contract.

You somehow misunderstood my post as knocking the iphone, which is completely incorrect. My point is that as far as I'm concerned the 3G as I have it with PDANet is already more than sufficient for my needs. Why am I going to blow what I've got going just because I want the latest-greatest firmware, or worse, the latest Apple toy.

I can tether just fine with PDANet by the way, so whatever AT&T is or isn't doing is of little concern to me. Until someone jailbreaks 3.0, or if Adam confirms it does Tethering now on ATTs network, I'm not going to give up the freedom I have with my jailbroken (and stable) 2xx firmware. http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/thumb_redface.gif

Ian,

I don't have an iPhone at all, so an "S" it is for me. BTW, did you see that AT&T is now being more flexible with the 3G to "S" upgrade timeframe?

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=13745

A camera flash would be nice to have, Apple should have found a way to add it. The autofocus is nice, and supports macro mode as well.

As for Flash support, what I've heard (from a friend who knows a developer at Apple) is that as currently written, Flash is so bloated and badly written (Adobe just keeps tacking on functionality without doing a clean rewrite for speed, size, and stability) that it would just be too big a drain on battery life.

It will be nice to see how soon the 3.0 OS can be jailbroken and tethering support enabled, better yet would be for AT&T to step up and officially support it.

The faster CPU+GPU (also has 2x the amount of RAM) could well see developers writing apps that take full advantage of this, and run in a lesser mode on the older hardware.

One other "S" feature: Support for the next round of AT&T wireless network upgrades, which would increase the speed to a theoritical 7.2Mbps.

BTW, if you are eligible for the upgrade, have you seen how much $ a jailbroken 3G iPhone draws on eBay and such? You might well be able to sell your old one for more than the upgrade cost.

Edwin

Lord Cadillac
06-18-09, 11:45 AM
I don't like Flash so I don't care about it. As long as there's Javascript capability and I can login to secure sites, I'm happy.

As for the 3.0 operating system running on my first generation iPhone - I don't see a whole lot of change other than the ability to tilt the phone sideways for a horizontal view/keypad while texting or emailing. It's an improvement but no big deal. I don't seem to get the video capability on this first generation phone... I'll have the new 3GS tomorrow morning...

Jesda
06-18-09, 12:08 PM
Excuse me Gulati, but I believe your Blackberry came out first....

I'm downloading 3.0 now.

You missed the joke.

The iPhone years ago lacked basic features included on my $75 Samsung phone such as:
MMS
EVDO/3G
Tethering
Video recording

The morons who waited in line and paid $600 for that piece of crap when it came out are... well... morons.

gary88
06-18-09, 12:21 PM
I don't have an iPhone but have considered getting one. My gripes with phone is the lack of video recording, multimedia messaging, and the unusually low volume from the speaker for ringtones and music. If all of that is corrected I may spend the money to get one.

-Video: Included with the 3GS
-MMS: Included in the 3.0 update
-Speaker volume: Quite loud

What I really like about the 3.0 update is they finally added copy/paste, and landscape texting is pretty nice.

Playdrv4me
06-18-09, 01:50 PM
Ian,

I don't have an iPhone at all, so an "S" it is for me. BTW, did you see that AT&T is now being more flexible with the 3G to "S" upgrade timeframe?

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=13745

A camera flash would be nice to have, Apple should have found a way to add it. The autofocus is nice, and supports macro mode as well.

As for Flash support, what I've heard (from a friend who knows a developer at Apple) is that as currently written, Flash is so bloated and badly written (Adobe just keeps tacking on functionality without doing a clean rewrite for speed, size, and stability) that it would just be too big a drain on battery life.

It will be nice to see how soon the 3.0 OS can be jailbroken and tethering support enabled, better yet would be for AT&T to step up and officially support it.

The faster CPU+GPU (also has 2x the amount of RAM) could well see developers writing apps that take full advantage of this, and run in a lesser mode on the older hardware.

One other "S" feature: Support for the next round of AT&T wireless network upgrades, which would increase the speed to a theoritical 7.2Mbps.

BTW, if you are eligible for the upgrade, have you seen how much $ a jailbroken 3G iPhone draws on eBay and such? You might well be able to sell your old one for more than the upgrade cost.

Edwin

Edwin, do you happen to know the story on the Tethering with 3.0? If it is allowed without being throttled or paying extra for it I will upgrade my firmware tonight, actually.

Landscape texting and MMS are GREAT features to have, but nothing I've yet seen is worth enough to lose my tether capability.

And I hear you on the Jailbroken iphone prices, they are way up there.

Playdrv4me
06-18-09, 01:55 PM
I don't like Flash so I don't care about it. As long as there's Javascript capability and I can login to secure sites, I'm happy.


See, here's the problem with that... NONE of us really CARE about Flash at all... but WE don't make the content.

The PROBLEM is that more and more sites are converting what used to be SIMPLE webpages to flash-intensive monstrosities with graphics galore. Even the ones with LIGHT graphics are still using flash for basic functionalities...

Example? I like to read Edmunds.com InsideLine ALOT, and it is the perfect reading material when you are somewhere bored out of your mind. However, the mobile version of InsideLine is laughable compared to the full web version. Yet, when you go to the FULL web version, all of the NEW and LATEST stories and reviews are on a big window pane that segments through automatically with Flash. There is no EASY way to track down all the new crap WITHOUT viewing that pane.

So what we have is a browser capable of TOTALLY being able to handle these full web page scripts and controls with no trouble at all (thereby not forcing me to have to deal with worthless "mobile" versions), but then crippled because I can't navigate through those pages without Flash.... Sooo I'm right back to using the same mobile pages every tom, dick and harry has on their Samsung flip phone? Not cool.

The Vbulletin Mobile version of this forum is one of the few exceptions to the "mobile" rule. It's actually easier to use than the standard site on the iphone.

Flash is not a web want, it's a web reality. You can only run from it for so long.

gary88
06-18-09, 02:37 PM
Looks like there's a way to tether without jailbreaking on 3.0 right now. Doesn't seem to be entirely legal though, as some in the UK have already been caught "flying under the radar".

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/18/how-to-tether-your-iphone-running-os-3-0-without-jailbreaking/

Lord Cadillac
06-18-09, 04:12 PM
SEO people hate flash. We don't believe in it. It may be on a few sites (or more and more) but it's not going to take over the world or anything.

nikon
06-18-09, 04:17 PM
HTC Touch Pro



Nuff said.

Must agree with you there....I love my slide out keyboard....and the ability to hack the shit out of it without 'jailbreaking' sure windows sucks, but it's one of those can't live with or without it kinda things....I do like the iphone...but you can't even change the layout of anything....your stuck the way it looks out of the box...again, I'll stick with windows.

ejguillot
06-18-09, 04:30 PM
Edwin, do you happen to know the story on the Tethering with 3.0? If it is allowed without being throttled or paying extra for it I will upgrade my firmware tonight, actually.

Landscape texting and MMS are GREAT features to have, but nothing I've yet seen is worth enough to lose my tether capability.

And I hear you on the Jailbroken iphone prices, they are way up there.

Ian,

Apparently progress is being made quickly on the tethering, check out

http://9to5mac.com/iPhone-3G-tethering

which looks like a really easy way to turn tethering on. Any other iphone users want to try this?

And apparently there's yet another new feature on the new iphones: An oil repellent screen coating, that makes it very easy to clean fingerprints off the screen.

Perhaps we need to start an online petition to have Adobe rewrite Flash to support smartphones...

BTW, did you ever buy that 95 Deville you were driving up to get in NC?

Edwin

Jesda
06-18-09, 05:13 PM
SEO people hate flash. We don't believe in it. It may be on a few sites (or more and more) but it's not going to take over the world or anything.

Its kind of taking over, bro. I hate it too.

MacMuse
06-18-09, 06:30 PM
What I'm really hopeful about in this 3.0 iPhone software is the Bluetooth functionality. With my 06 STS, the audio system tosses an overwhelming (painful even) BUZZ when the iPhone starts the phone dialing process. So far, in 3 test calls with the 3.0 software, I have not had a single buzz. The audio coming out of the STS stereo even sounds different when the phone starts to take over the system. I think they may have fixed this MAJOR problem.

ejguillot
06-19-09, 06:35 PM
Well, I just picked up a 16GB 3GS this morning! I'll take a few days to get used to it, then start exploring tethering options. Ian, looks like I may be the guinea pig for that.

Playdrv4me
06-19-09, 07:08 PM
BTW, did you ever buy that 95 Deville you were driving up to get in NC?

Edwin

I did not, ended up not being quite what I expected.

AMGoff
06-19-09, 07:55 PM
I can tether just fine with PDANet by the way, so whatever AT&T is or isn't doing is of little concern to me. Until someone jailbreaks 3.0, or if Adam confirms it does Tethering now on ATTs network, I'm not going to give up the freedom I have with my jailbroken (and stable) 2xx firmware. http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/thumb_redface.gif

I'm not sure if I can give you a definitive answer on it Ian... It appears tethering is most definitely supported on the Apple side of things. It seems that Apple only *wants* to give 3G users tethering support. I still have the original iPhone and it's not supported by default, however... it's definitely included in the OS because I was able to bring it up through a bit of firmware trickery. With that said, I can't say if it comes up as default with the 3G or 3GS... You'll have to consult with a respective owner.

Now... What AT&T plans to do - I have no idea. I'd have to assume that if you keep tethered data usage to a lower iPhone-esque level, I can't see how AT&T would know the difference... Unless you start transferring large amounts of data through the cellular network.

While it's nice to know it's there... I doubt I'll ever use it except for the rare occasion - I'm rarely ever away from a wifi signal enough to warrant it.

That's mainly the same reason why I never upgraded to a 3G, nor will I plan to upgrade to this new model - a full signal on the EDGE network is more than speedy enough for me in a pinch. That and I refuse to pay double for a 3G data connection - it's just not all that worth it for me.

Although I will say that I'm very much enjoying the 3.0 system... It feels to be a much more stable and robust system than before - even on my original hardware. Safari also feels snappier - which I suspect is due to it being based on the new Safari 4. Other much welcomed features include the landscape keyboard and finally - CUT, COPY, & PASTE... I've been taking huge advantage of that just in the last couple of days.

Either way... While I'm still exploring all of its ins and outs, so far I am perfectly pleased with the new OS and if anything, it's given me even less of a reason to upgrade to a new phone. As I said before, I have neither a need, nor a desire for MMS messaging and I couldn't care less about video recording.

When it comes down to it... Until AT&T comes out with more reasonable pricing for their 3G service... or they shut down EDGE completely, then I have no desire to upgrade hardware.

ejguillot
06-19-09, 09:36 PM
When I picked up the iPhone, I asked the sales guy about the tethering. FWIW, he said it should be officially supported by the end of the year.

Playdrv4me
06-20-09, 12:08 AM
That's mainly the same reason why I never upgraded to a 3G, nor will I plan to upgrade to this new model - a full signal on the EDGE network is more than speedy enough for me in a pinch. That and I refuse to pay double for a 3G data connection - it's just not all that worth it for me.


WHOA WHOA WHOA... Hold on this is a MAJOR piece of news to me (keep in mind that unlike with Sprint, I don't care or keep on top of ANYTHING AT&T does. I'm here purely for the iphone). If you don't pay the 40 bucks a month for the data service what DO you pay for to use the data functionality? I might actually consider downgrading if I can save 20 bucks a month!

Sure that might be chump change to some, but that's 240 bucks a year just to be able a surf a web page 20 percent faster. And of course the occasional instance I tether, which might be on the Edge network anyway depending on where in BFE I am.

Is my understanding correct by you saying "double" that Edge is 20 bucks a month? If that's the case, I may try to find someone who wants to trade "up" from their Gen1 to a Jailbroken 3G with their Gen1 and a little bit of cash and just use Edge all other features being equal.

I gotta admit, I like the anodized aluminum caseback finish on the Gen1 better than the newer units too.

gary88
06-20-09, 12:21 AM
Don't forget the extra charges are also for location services along with 3G. Downgrading would cause you do lose the nifty "pinpointing" of your location in google maps, something that has came in handy plenty of times for me. It also plays a role in the functionality of a ton of apps.

Jesda
06-20-09, 02:20 AM
Pinpointing is handy but really kind of crippled. My Sprint plan includes unlimited GPS navigation and GPS-based POI. Its nice when Im out shopping and I can fire up the phone and search for all post offices within 10 miles, then navigate to that place live.

Saves me money on having to buy a portable GPS unit.

Playdrv4me
06-20-09, 04:10 AM
I agree with Jesda, Gary. I've used the Pinpoint a few times but not nearly as much as the meat and potatoes functionality I use the iPhone for which is Safari web browsing and checking. If all I use it for is that, plus the occasional tether here and there and I've already gotten used to a lack of MMS, I think I can manage an iPhone 2G.

I have already secured one from a work friend for 140 in great condition with all its original boxes and accessories (even the apple stickers) except for the charger.

gary88
06-20-09, 12:49 PM
Looks like prices really came down on those. Last year I sold my 2G for $330.

I completely prefer the anodized aluminum back of the old iPhone, I could use it without a case because it really didn't scratch unless you tried. The 3G needs its plastic backing to function however.

AMGoff
06-20-09, 07:57 PM
Ian... I'll have to double-check with the Mrs., but I believe that the "2.5G" data plan for my iPhone is only $20 a month. In reality, when I first got it... I think it really only came up to an extra $15 a month overall, because I was paying an extra $5/mo. for their little 200 text msg plan and the original iPhone data plan includes 200 texts a month with the service... So after I dropped the text plan, it only worked out to be an extra $15 on top of our Family Talk voice plan.

As far as the GPS is concerned... Again, it's something I've never had a need, nor desire for. It's along the same notion when I see tons of people on the forums clamoring to upgrade their standard headunits to a factory Denso navigation system. Other than the "look" of it, I never had any burning desire for one in my old Seville and true enough, even though my '03 has a factory-installed nav system I've only used it once and that was really just to test it out when we went down to DC a couple months ago. Also, from what I understand... The GPS in the iPhone isn't really a "true" GPS anyway.

With that said, since having updated the maps feature in the v2.0 software, my phone can still show me where I'm at and approximate my position within a quarter-mile or so through tower triangulation... More than adequate enough for me to figure out where I am and help get directions to where I need to go if necessary.

But like I've said before... There really hasn't been anything of such "wow-ness" to warrant upgrading and consequently being forced to pay double for the data. Were Apple to have tried to force AT&T to offer an EDGE-only data plan on newer models, I probably would have already upgraded, buy alas - no dice.