: Can someone help me identify this Fleetwood/Brougham?



MudAnt
06-13-09, 06:00 PM
I'm thinking of buying this 1980 Fleetwood used off a guy, but I'm not sure it's even a 1980, or even a Fleetwood.

Here's the one image provided:

http://marcdegrandpre.com/images/fleetwood.jpg

The only information provided was:

-V8
-A/c
-RWD

Also note that it appears to have a center high count brake lamp, which, according to Wikipedia, wasn't required until 1986. That means this is an 86 or newer, unless Cadillac started using these prior to them becoming mandatory, or it's an aftermarket part.

If anyone has a rough idea of the year, I'd appreciate the help. Thanks!

Angry Matt
06-13-09, 07:14 PM
The chrome up the sides of the hood tell you it's a fleetwood brougham. Also the rocker panel runs the length of the car. The white stripe in the bumper moldings are pre-86. The ht4100 badge on the fender would be '82-'85. And the clear turn signal lenses are from an '83 ('82 were amber and '84 had crests). 1983 fleetwood brougham.

MudAnt
06-13-09, 07:34 PM
Is the HT4100 a bad engine? I've heard on various sites it's generally an unreliable engine and doesn't last very long, due to the aluminum block. (Asking price is only $1,500 CAD by the way)

Bro-Ham
06-13-09, 08:28 PM
I agree - 83 Fleetwood Brougham. Standard wheel covers. Cool! Last year of the HT 4100 badge on the side. 84 did not have the HT4100 badge.

Lazarus_Rooney
06-13-09, 08:57 PM
despite the HT4100 it appears to have an astro roof - good find! just get that ugly plastic bit off the roof.

Angry Matt
06-13-09, 09:19 PM
HT4100 definitely aren't the best motors, but they're not all bad. It's kind of hit or miss with them. Between my friends and I owning them, I've seen many success stories. You have to take care of them. The problem is you don't know if the previous owner did. Listen carefully for knocks or anything suspicious (smoke,leaks), pay attention on the test drive. 1500usd is a good price, depending on mileage and overall condition, I don't know how that compares in cad. The astroroof is cool and the car looks nice. Love the window visors. Do you know if it's a d'elegance (pillow top seats)?

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
06-14-09, 02:31 AM
:yeah: You can live with a 4100 but it is not a good relationship. If you have ever driven one of these cars with the HT-4100 you will find yourself really working the throttle. These cars are heavy and that engine is underpowered making it SLOW! My friend had an '85 with the 4100 and you had to give it 3/4 throttle to make it accelerate like my 1990 does with about 1/8 throttle. Check the maintenance record on the car carefully. The HT-4100 requires a special coolant additive. The coolant must be changed every two years or else bad things start to happen. As for the third brake light, the requirements may have been different for Canada. For example, daytime running lights are required on all Canadian cars (my '90 would have had them if it was destined for Canada) but it is not required by law on American cars. The third brake light is simple though, Caddy used the exact same one for every car they made in the late 80's so someone could have easily added it as well.

MudAnt
06-14-09, 07:08 PM
There's also an 86 Brougham with a burgundy interior and exterior for $3,500 CAD. Seems to be in pretty good shape (108,000kms), and it'll have the Olds 307 engine. I'd rather have one in black though and the '83 is the only one I've found so far. Anyone know of a black 86-89 Brougham in driving range of Alberta? :confused:

Angry Matt
06-15-09, 09:22 AM
I wouldn't let the 4100 scare you away, not for that price. As long as it's not super high mileage or is knocking or smoking or something. I didn't realize that was black (looked navy blue in the pic). Is the interior black also? That a cool, black on black. Personally I'd look for an '80 or '81 with a 6.0. They have much stronger motors and excellent trannys.

sven914
06-15-09, 05:36 PM
The chrome up the sides of the hood tell you it's a fleetwood brougham. Also the rocker panel runs the length of the car. The white stripe in the bumper moldings are pre-86. The ht4100 badge on the fender would be '82-'85. And the clear turn signal lenses are from an '83 ('82 were amber and '84 had crests). 1983 fleetwood brougham.

Just to be sure it's an 83, because some people (like me! :thumbsup:) enjoy screwing with the appearance of their car and blur the lines between years, check the VIN number.

If it's an 83, the 10th digit of the VIN should be a D.

If it's a Fleetwood Brougham, the 5th digit should be a B

If it has the 4100 engine (from the factory) the 8th digit should be an 8

MudAnt
06-15-09, 09:10 PM
I wouldn't let the 4100 scare you away, not for that price. As long as it's not super high mileage or is knocking or smoking or something. I didn't realize that was black (looked navy blue in the pic). Is the interior black also? That a cool, black on black. Personally I'd look for an '80 or '81 with a 6.0. They have much stronger motors and excellent trannys.

Yeah, if it were an '80 like the ad said it was, I'd have bought it already. I know $1500 is a great price, but I'm not much of a mechanic myself and don't have the time or money to tinker with my car.

I think I'll call them and get the VIN to be sure it's not an '80. Maybe they had the front light assembly replaced for some reason? It's a long shot, but I really want one in black and the only other one I found is in New Brunswick (and I'm in Alberta :ill:)

brougham
06-19-09, 04:15 PM
Just because it has an emblem on the fender doesnt mean it's a 4.1L car. 1980 had an emblem there too. And a lot of people used to add the 3rd brake lights to their cars. They look real ugly and you can tell they were added on. Did you bother to go look at it? Maybe its not even a picture of the same car.

Angry Matt
06-19-09, 06:17 PM
In 1980-82 the script on the grill would have been on the grill header not the grill itself. Still, they could have replaced the header panel and lights for some reason.

sven914
06-19-09, 06:51 PM
Just because it has an emblem on the fender doesnt mean it's a 4.1L car. 1980 had an emblem there too.

Also allot of people replace the 4100 with an Olds and an owner who is not engine conscience wouldn't even think about that engine badge.

gregcomer
06-22-09, 11:42 PM
okay folks... im going to weigh in on this. it appears to me that there is an electroluminescent between the trim around the doors. if so its NOT an 83. If it is a 1980 it will have the old style climate control.
of course, if you ask my opinion it does not matter what year it is if it has the infamous HT4100. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Additionally... the big old car pulled down the road by a wimp of an engine makes it hell to drive. It's not worth 500 bucks wholesale. Find a 1980 or 1981. skip 1982-1985. 1986 starts the 5.0. still WAY underpowered and they ping alot, best is 5.7 in the last few years.