: Wait4Me TB.....



Razorecko
06-12-09, 08:28 PM
So I installed the 4in TB & 4in new era intake. Throttle response is poor. Is this because I'm still on the stock tune or because the ecu needs a couple cycles to adjust to the new air flow ?

CTSV_510
06-12-09, 08:51 PM
You need a wait4me tune.

CadV
06-12-09, 09:02 PM
So I installed the 4in TB & 4in new era intake. Throttle response is poor. Is this because I'm still on the stock tune or because the ecu needs a couple cycles to adjust to the new air flow ?

I don't think it is the TB Raz.

I got the w4me 4" intake and got the same poor response. With mine I suspect it is because the filter is covering up or going down in the hole and that is where the good air is. The big filter pretty much plugs the hole and it is like the car is starving for air. I removed the 4" intake and put my modded box back in and the throttle response was awesome.

I will do some more playing around with it but I think the best intake design for this car is cutting the stock airbox and let it grab the downward air. Cones will try and grab it from the sides and there is not much breathing room.

I got some shop time tomorrow morning for the crank pulley and I will post a bunch of pictures. I am going to discuss my theory with the guy helping with with the crank and see what he thinks.

Maybe take off your air intake and put the stock box back in and see if the throttle response improves. That would isolate the problem.

CadV
06-12-09, 09:49 PM
A 360 degree filter is probably a better solution than a cone where the bottom is not allowing air.

Something like this:
http://www.autogrimmig.com/catalog/HPS_KeyFeature_Filter_Web.jpg

Razorecko
06-12-09, 09:50 PM
i posted on your other thread but I could see what you're saying. The inlet for the air is way too small for a large intake filter

CadV
06-12-09, 09:59 PM
i posted on your other thread but I could see what you're saying. The inlet for the air is way too small for a large intake filter

Let me know if you figure anything out but like I said removing the 4" air intake fixed my problem. It would be better if the filter allowed air flow from the bottom. The cone does nothing more than pull hot engine air. Even putting the entire filter in the hole there is not enough room to get good air flow going.

CadV
06-15-09, 10:13 AM
Well Raz I tried another filter with no success. It has to be the MAF but I made sure it was installed the same wy as stock.

You figured anything out?

kencav
06-15-09, 10:28 AM
Have you guys spoken to or pm'd jesse on this- i have one coming this week so i would like to hear his take on this- would think tune would be paramount here as well

CadV
06-15-09, 10:53 AM
Have you guys spoken to or pm'd jesse on this- i have one coming this week so i would like to hear his take on this- would think tune would be paramount here as well

I was using his tune with the testing I did.

wait4me
06-15-09, 12:19 PM
MAF element placement is important. usually it needs to be in the back with the plug inlet facing exactly up and down. Also on the filter thing. You need to PRESS the filter down into the hole half way. You have to move the wires out of the way and then it will press right down into the hole. That way it will get the air it needs. Using the 360 air ones like you posted did not make any change in power. So i just used the k&n one as it is able to be replaced at any auto shop without waiting for weeks for a replacement should that be an issue in the future.

The power will be gained on the TOP end, wot with the 4 inch setup and any horsepower over 580.. Anything before that, a 4 inch setup is NOT needed. I tried to explain that to everyone previously, But bigger must always be better right??? :)

The only reason why im making them is because people keep asking for them. The car WILL learn the fueling and the sluggishness and fix it though, it just takes a while for it to store its different Coeficients...

Razorecko
06-15-09, 06:08 PM
^ I got it !! After looking in there the stock air flow is almost non existant. I pulled out the tube that runs air from the fog light to the caliper/rotor and now the V reallllly pulls. Even at low speeds where I would normally hit boost i'm going just as fast but without even tapping into the supercharger. Now the air flows right into the intake. And the whistle noise from the intake is loud now at every speed - even 4th gear on the highway. The reason the 4in wasn't doing anything was because it was just plain suffocated w/out extra air flow.

jwa999
06-15-09, 06:24 PM
I pulled out the tube that runs air from the fog light to the caliper/rotor and now the V reallllly pulls.

Is there now still enough air cooling going to the front driver side brake?

Razorecko
06-15-09, 06:30 PM
Is there now still enough air cooling going to the front driver side brake?

Yea it'll be fine. Unless you're heavily tracking your V it wont affect breaking performance. Remember that the "stock" opening for airflow will not be sufficinet for a " non-stock" intake system.

CadV
06-15-09, 06:33 PM
^ I got it !! After looking in there the stock air flow is almost non existant. I pulled out the tube that runs air from the fog light to the caliper/rotor and now the V reallllly pulls. Even at low speeds where I would normally hit boost i'm going just as fast but without even tapping into the supercharger. Now the air flows right into the intake. And the whistle noise from the intake is loud now at every speed - even 4th gear on the highway. The reason the 4in wasn't doing anything was because it was just plain suffocated w/out extra air flow.

Dammit Raz now I gotta do it :P

Razorecko
06-15-09, 06:39 PM
^ trust me. The difference is instant. You just gotta wiggle the front of the air tube and twist it out. Best thing is that if I need to go back to stock i can just throw the oem airbox on and nobody will even see that the duct is still gone :D...I'll do a thread on it later when I get get the pics i took. I figured this out because coming from a jeep srt8 a huge mod was using flex tubing and literally connecting one of our brake ducts directly to the water drain duct on the oem air box. On average it bumped up 5-6hp just from that. It never caused any ill braking issues and you were guaranteed the coolest air possible. Now on the V you could also get even more hardcore and plug the hole that aims at the brake rotor and literally bloat the whole air intake with cool air but I didnt want too much debris getting sucked into the bay.

CadV
06-15-09, 07:56 PM
Well here are pictures of Raz's mod:

Stock:
http://i43.tinypic.com/ekrrxy.jpg

Grab the end closest to the front bumper and give it a good yank up:
http://i39.tinypic.com/15q836a.jpg

Picture of it out:
http://i40.tinypic.com/sl2yo0.jpg

RapidRob
06-15-09, 08:06 PM
^^^ I wonder if Jesse did that when he designed his CAI kit? Sounds like the CAI requires a lot more air than the OEM system since I don't recall hearing that the OEM system was starved for air. Interesting indeed ... ?

I've got the Jesse's kit and will be installing it soon - have to visit the dealer tomorrow first, though.

Thanks for the pics CadV - that really helps!

Rob

jwa999
06-15-09, 08:09 PM
No worries about water hitting the filter?

CadV
06-15-09, 08:15 PM
No worries about water hitting the filter?

Look at the picture "Grab the end closest to the front bumper and give it a good yank up". The top part is where the filter would be and the bottom part is where the hole in the bumper would be. Pretty good distance.

Razorecko
06-15-09, 09:49 PM
I wouldn't worry about water hitting it because the top tip of the intake is just visible above the scoop line....

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6527/dscn03623110056.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/dscn03623110056.jpg/) http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/dscn03623110056.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img199/dscn03623110056.jpg/1/)

Here is my intake and tb...

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4944/dscn03643112038.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/dscn03643112038.jpg/) http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/dscn03643112038.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img196/dscn03643112038.jpg/1/)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8141/dscn03613107928.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/dscn03613107928.jpg/) http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/dscn03613107928.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img13/dscn03613107928.jpg/1/)

The difference was large after taking out that duct scoop and has absolutely no difference in non-track braking ability. It is still slightly laggy at low rpm but I will give it a few days for the ecu to adjust. I'm more than sure it will pick it back up. If it doesn't I'll cap off the hole on the inner fender wall thats originally for the duct and that should help create some "oem" like pressurization of air. Like Rob mentioned, I also believe that this style of intake on this type of motor will literally suck up small animals if given the chance and needs the oppurtunity to get as much air as possible

aceofblitz
06-15-09, 10:08 PM
Hmm interesting...
I remember there was this product for the M5, an Air scoop that diverts air to the intake + the brakes. Could there be a similar modification that could be worked for our Vs in order to better manage the flow of air to the intake while still maintaining a decent flow of air to the brakes without sacrificing anything?
Must be a way around this.

Razorecko
06-15-09, 10:30 PM
Hmm interesting...
I remember there was this product for the M5, an Air scoop that diverts air to the intake + the brakes. Could there be a similar modification that could be worked for our Vs in order to better manage the flow of air to the intake while still maintaining a decent flow of air to the brakes without sacrificing anything?
Must be a way around this.

You realllllly don't need to do an air duct directly onto the brakes & rotors unless you're tracking or live in las vegas heat :D but you know "oem" has to prepare for every situation/scenario

CadV
06-15-09, 10:44 PM
You realllllly don't need to do an air duct directly onto the brakes & rotors unless you're tracking or live in las vegas heat :D but you know "oem" has to prepare for every situation/scenario

Does Texas heat count? hehehe

jlford30
06-15-09, 10:54 PM
Yes...Yes it does lol

RapidRob
06-15-09, 11:18 PM
You realllllly don't need to do an air duct directly onto the brakes & rotors unless you're tracking or live in las vegas heat :D but you know "oem" has to prepare for every situation/scenario

Yeah but ... I want it ALL!! Whaaa whaaaa! I want to track it AND have a CAI - Whaaaaa! :crybaby: j/k :rolleyes:

Rob

aceofblitz
06-15-09, 11:22 PM
today's high is 109F so yeah.... heat is a critical issue for cars here, which is why the heat exchanger + 160 tstat are on my top priority... and why i really need to keep minimal changes to the air duct :P

Razorecko
06-16-09, 09:53 AM
^ I would still say pull out the duct just don't cap the hole closed on the wheel well. Trust me. I completely disabled my braking duct on a 4800lb jeep that had even smaller front rotors than the V. I live in the chicago summers. Its no las vegas heat but if you factor in humidity its even more miserable than you can think. NOW if we could get someone to make slotted and drilled rotors than you'd have the total best of both worlds :D

Tuan_CTSV
06-19-09, 12:55 PM
Razorecko... I also got this intake from New Era! You were asking if you need a tune with this Intake and Throttlebody. Well I did what you said with taking out the tube for the brakes, and the car seems to respond to the new intake very well. My throttle body is still stock.
Yesterday, I went to a local shop to get my car tuned on HPTuners program. I got there and the tuner decided to do a baseline run with the way the car sits.
Before I had a dyno run on my stock car and I made 460whp, and 480 whp with the open air box.
The result from the baseline run really surprised me. My car made on 438hp with the new intake. The tuner said the car was running really rich and that was causing the car to come up with lower numbers. I was going to get the car retuned with the intake, but my tuner didn't have the newest beta version of HPTuner and so we will have to wait til they email him with the new software.

So next week is when I go back to get my car tuned, and hopefully he can make it run smoother and more power.
New Era said they made 50hp with the intake alone. I think you should get your car tuned especially with the new throttle body and intake, the stock tune will not notice that and cannot compensate for the added air into your motor. I will keep you posted with the result from my tune next week.

Razorecko
06-19-09, 02:21 PM
Razorecko... I also got this intake from New Era! You were asking if you need a tune with this Intake and Throttlebody. Well I did what you said with taking out the tube for the brakes, and the car seems to respond to the new intake very well. My throttle body is still stock.
Yesterday, I went to a local shop to get my car tuned on HPTuners program. I got there and the tuner decided to do a baseline run with the way the car sits.
Before I had a dyno run on my stock car and I made 460whp, and 480 whp with the open air box.
The result from the baseline run really surprised me. My car made on 438hp with the new intake. The tuner said the car was running really rich and that was causing the car to come up with lower numbers. I was going to get the car retuned with the intake, but my tuner didn't have the newest beta version of HPTuner and so we will have to wait til they email him with the new software.

So next week is when I go back to get my car tuned, and hopefully he can make it run smoother and more power.
New Era said they made 50hp with the intake alone. I think you should get your car tuned especially with the new throttle body and intake, the stock tune will not notice that and cannot compensate for the added air into your motor. I will keep you posted with the result from my tune next week.

Hey Tuan, How long after you pulled the intake duct tube did you go and get it dyno'd ?

CadV
06-19-09, 02:58 PM
I have a feeling the best intake for this car is a modded stock box. I have had the 4" intake on for 3 days and it still feels sluggish.

Tuan_CTSV
06-19-09, 03:13 PM
Razorecko... I had the intake on for 1 day, I put it on Wednesday. I went to the dyno yesterday. Even though it may need time for the computer to see the added air. I still wanted to have the car tuned knowing that there is more power to can be made in stock trim.

CadV which intake do you have?

CadV
06-19-09, 03:18 PM
CadV which intake do you have?

wait4me

Razorecko
07-14-09, 12:43 PM
update... Car going in on the sp dyno tuesday for the TB & intake mod to get some #'s and the a/f. Stock tune. The car pulls like a beast in every gear now. Seems like the ecu needed some cycles to adjust.

Gotham CTS-V
07-14-09, 01:57 PM
I'm guessing between the ECU adapting and the brake duct mod, the intake now will be a great upgrade where before, it was actually making you lose power.
We will find out when the dyno results come in. Thanks for keeping us posted.

Razorecko
07-14-09, 02:14 PM
^ I'm a huge believer that the brake duct is almost a necessity. Think about it - If you gain like 15hp on the dyno just by opening up the oem intake lid than it means that the opening that the stock intake uses is not large enough for air consumption. Even if you cut out the bottom of the intake box you are still only getting a bit more air than oem. Its gonna be a long week wait