: Seriously... Who in Their RIGHT MIND Would Take this Toyota.. over this Cadillac



cmicasa
06-08-09, 09:22 PM
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/06/ctsv-review014.jpg


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/06/ctsv-review041.jpg


OR

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/06/lexus_isf_1280_07.jpg


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/06/lexus_isf_1280_39.jpg

cmicasa
06-08-09, 09:26 PM
Only in the minds of Sheep would the Lexus be a choice... No seriously. The car is great for a Toyota.. but Toyotas are essentially the epitome of the word BLAND. The performance of the ca is not bad per se.. but it simply is not as engaging as the others in the field. I would personally take a C63AMG or M3 over this any day of the week. The CTS-V and M5 simply and completely are well beyond it in my opinion. The fit and finish of the Lexus both in pictures and most importantly... REAL LIFE DRIVING are absolutely pitiful at best. Basically what I'm saying is that it is one of the ugliest cars ever to come out of Japan... even worse than the Tribeca. How Toyota managed to screw up the looks of the nice looking IS350 I'll never understand, but they did. And the interior looks generic as hell. Only the PEDALS look cool.

On a more positive note... it sounds really good. But I certainly wouldn't take it over a used RS4, M3, or C63AMG.. and definitely not over the KING CTS-V or deposed M5. Hell I'd take a Camaro SS over that ugly ass Lexus.

Chalk this up to the SHEEP of the world who absolutely still believe in Japan as their only source of quality, even tho both the Americans (in every way) and German (well not in reliability) simply out do them. They were a segue way to better cars.. circa 1989-2004, and then.. something happened.:nono:

allklr
06-08-09, 09:43 PM
I traded my 460L in for the CTS-V, I think the IS-F is pretty good for Lexus on their first shot. I would probably get an M3 over it, The aftermarket support is incredible with proven vendors. I think that is where Lexus needs to improve, When I was doing mods to my 460 the service department was giving me a hard time.

UnsafeAtAnySpd
06-08-09, 09:53 PM
What I can't believe is that they actually use fake exhaust tips on that car.

Luna.
06-08-09, 10:06 PM
What's worse is the oversized pics... :thepan:

V-Eight
06-08-09, 10:33 PM
Toyota engines suck too, the one in my van had to be rebuilt after 2 years. Although they have nice features, I'll never be buying one.

Night Wolf
06-08-09, 10:47 PM
Maybe ask this question on a Lexus forum for the answer?

Jesda
06-08-09, 10:51 PM
IS-F is a nice try, but not enough. Best looking Lexus at the moment, but that's not saying much at all.

thebigjimsho
06-08-09, 10:53 PM
That douche, 8speed, is gone. So this thread was not needed. We all know the answer...

gary88
06-08-09, 10:59 PM
The Lexus is about as exciting as a stainless steel dishwasher.

The Tony Show
06-08-09, 11:24 PM
Hey- I like my stainless steel dishwasher! It's quiet, and goes about the job I purchased it for in an efficient and un-dramatic fashion. Sure it's not something I'd show off to company, but it's a nice appliance.



Oh wait......

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
06-08-09, 11:54 PM
My dishwasher is beige and has a giant dial. I want a fancy one with buttons. :(

1SICKLEX
06-09-09, 08:58 AM
We live in an age where both Caddy and Lexus have come forward with more exciting cars. Caddy is not really considered sportier than Lexus. To the OP the IS-F is no Toyota, its a Lexus. Would you want the wonderful CTS-V called a Chevy, or Buick, or Pontiac? Its kind of funny for people to act like Caddy is some BMW brand when they are cushier or as cushy as a Lexus.

The CTS-V clearly is a segment buster. On paper why would ANYONE get the IS-F, M3, C63 over it let alone the M5, E63, XFR? It has more power and is cheaper or as expensive. I think its a fabulous vehicle.

People want choice though and the CTS-V is not for them. Some want a car that is smaller or lighter, the IS-F is 400 lbs lighter and is much smaller. The CTS-V is the size of the GS. Some are happy with Lexus ownership and the IS-F is a logical step. Some are worried that Caddy might not be AROUND in the future looking at GM's recent mess.

I can appreciate both vehicles. Not sure why the OP needs to make himself feel better bashing a car he clearly knows NOTHING about.

RightTurn
06-09-09, 09:35 AM
The OP was posting in response to a Lexus owning Caddy-basher. For some reason this thread was moved from the '09 V board where it made more sense. :D

tdyguy2k
06-09-09, 10:07 AM
What's worse is the oversized pics... :thepan:

They're not oversized on my 24" monitor. :duck:


To the OP the IS-F is no Toyota, its a Lexus. 1.

There is no Lexus brand in Japan, export only. All Lexus models are branded as Toyota there, just as Acura's are Honda's etc..

codewize
06-09-09, 10:19 AM
The millions of people from the 80's who insist that imported cars are better and the more millions of people who don't actually LOOK at the Cadillac line because they think they're fuel guzzling luxury cars for old people.

There's a lot of stereotype out there on both sides. I've said this before that it's going to take a long long time to turn the American public around and make them see that Americans are making much better, more fuel efficient cars than they did just a few years ago. In addition to the fact that the imports have severely slipped in quality.

But people have in there heads that imports are better. Just like the people that vote for their party regardless of how bad the candidate may be.

Jesda
06-09-09, 10:42 AM
Ian bought an IS and dumped it after less than a week.
I had his LS for no more than a couple months before giving it back to him.

Great cars for people who have quieter tastes. I'm noisy.

Playdrv4me
06-09-09, 10:50 AM
There is no Lexus brand in Japan, export only. All Lexus models are branded as Toyota there, just as Acura's are Honda's etc..

Actually... Toyota introduced the Lexus brand to the Japanese market about a year ago.

1SICKLEX
06-09-09, 11:41 AM
They're not oversized on my 24" monitor. :duck:



There is no Lexus brand in Japan, export only. All Lexus models are branded as Toyota there, just as Acura's are Honda's etc..
Actually Lexus was launched worldwide in 1989. Since no dealer network was established in Japan, they rebadged them Toyotas there.

This changed in 2006 when Lexus dealerships opened.

Acura is sold only in America. There is no Acura outside America. Most of their vehicles are designed in California, made in Ohio as well.

Shall we talk about the Cadillac BLS? A Saab a Lac?

http://www.gmukfleethub.co.uk/assets/ebulletins/vfl43166-cadillac-bls/cadillac-bls.jpg

In regards to who the Lexus owner was bashing Caddy here, we have had problems with him on our Lexus forum.:banghead:

Jesda
06-09-09, 11:55 AM
BLS is a nice car. Sure as hell isn't a Cadillac, and isn't worth the asking price at all. It would have made a nice Oldsmobile or Opel.

thebigjimsho
06-09-09, 12:11 PM
Actually Lexus was launched worldwide in 1989. Since no dealer network was established in Japan, they rebadged them Toyotas there.

This changed in 2006 when Lexus dealerships opened.

Acura is sold only in America. There is no Acura outside America. Most of their vehicles are designed in California, made in Ohio as well.

Shall we talk about the Cadillac BLS? A Saab a Lac?

http://www.gmukfleethub.co.uk/assets/ebulletins/vfl43166-cadillac-bls/cadillac-bls.jpg

In regards to who the Lexus owner was bashing Caddy here, we have had problems with him on our Lexus forum.:banghead:
I don't hate the IS-F. And I have a very soft spot for Yamaha messaged engines. But this thread was for that very specific poster. Anyone can say both positive and negative comments for anything. I can appreciate your wanting to defend Lexus. But we all know this will escalate soon, so why not say your greetings and bid adieu...

concorso
06-09-09, 01:14 PM
Actually Lexus was launched worldwide in 1989. Since no dealer network was established in Japan, they rebadged them Toyotas there.

This changed in 2006 when Lexus dealerships opened.

Acura is sold only in America. There is no Acura outside America. Most of their vehicles are designed in California, made in Ohio as well.

Shall we talk about the Cadillac BLS? A Saab a Lac?

http://www.gmukfleethub.co.uk/assets/ebulletins/vfl43166-cadillac-bls/cadillac-bls.jpg

In regards to who the Lexus owner was bashing Caddy here, we have had problems with him on our Lexus forum.:banghead: Im lost.What does Acura have to do with 8speed's anti-american sentiment? Acura is sold in Hong Kong and China.

THe IS F has some nice points. It has a nice exhaust note, a Yamaha tuned engine, and the best stereo in this segment. The trans was annoying tho, shifting even more often then the 7 spd in MErcedes. The car looks like a boy-racer and the interior is boring. The V is clearly superior. People can admit it or not, but Cadillac made a world beating car with the V.

1SICKLEX
06-09-09, 02:06 PM
I don't hate the IS-F. And I have a very soft spot for Yamaha messaged engines. But this thread was for that very specific poster. Anyone can say both positive and negative comments for anything. I can appreciate your wanting to defend Lexus. But we all know this will escalate soon, so why not say your greetings and bid adieu...

I've been a member since 04.:) Sal and I go back:thumbsup:

The CTS-V IMO is fantastic. I also am a fan of the IS-F and of both brands.

thebigjimsho
06-09-09, 03:56 PM
Where is Sal?

Rodya234
06-09-09, 05:50 PM
^ probably in Africa killing elephants with his bare hands.

tdyguy2k
06-09-09, 07:09 PM
Actually... Toyota introduced the Lexus brand to the Japanese market about a year ago.

I stand corrected then. Been a few years since I lived over there, about 15 of them actually. Thanks for the update. :thumbsup:

1BlinkGone
06-09-09, 07:27 PM
That Lexus, IMHO, is hideous; and about as exciting as a CA DMV visit.

thebigjimsho
06-09-09, 08:05 PM
If I'm going to be critical of the Lexus, it's the driver's area is too snug and the 2 tone w/ red is hideous...

cmicasa
06-09-09, 08:44 PM
We live in an age where both Caddy and Lexus have come forward with more exciting cars. Caddy is not really considered sportier than Lexus. To the OP the IS-F is no Toyota, its a Lexus. Would you want the wonderful CTS-V called a Chevy, or Buick, or Pontiac? Its kind of funny for people to act like Caddy is some BMW brand when they are cushier or as cushy as a Lexus.

The CTS-V clearly is a segment buster. On paper why would ANYONE get the IS-F, M3, C63 over it let alone the M5, E63, XFR? It has more power and is cheaper or as expensive. I think its a fabulous vehicle.

People want choice though and the CTS-V is not for them. Some want a car that is smaller or lighter, the IS-F is 400 lbs lighter and is much smaller. The CTS-V is the size of the GS. Some are happy with Lexus ownership and the IS-F is a logical step. Some are worried that Caddy might not be AROUND in the future looking at GM's recent mess.

I can appreciate both vehicles. Not sure why the OP needs to make himself feel better bashing a car he clearly knows NOTHING about.


Buddy U are seriously barking up the wrong tree. While I don't own the nasty looking IS-F.. I have driven it a coupla times. It was actually part of the reason why I got rid of my STS and got into the new CTS-V.

Also.. I gotta say that after see U type that the current crop of Caddys are as "CUSHY" as Lexus.. I'm a lil taken aback. For SPORTINESS mixed with beautiful Luxo I will put an XLR up against an SC430... and STS up against an LS, a CTS up against a GS, an SRX up against an RX, or an Escalade up against an LX570 any day of the week... each time writing the check out to Cadillac over that Toyota POS.:yawn:

The difference between the LEXUS/Toyota Connection and the Cadillac/Chevy one is that the Caddy one only uses the PREMIUM bits from the Chevy line such as the CORVETTE and TAHOE. These are two vehicles that U can easily top out above $50K.. the Corvette $100K. :thumbsup:

Lexus on the other hand... chose in this debate to use a $18K Camry and a $24K Highlander/Venza as it's donors. Of Course I often say that the LS is nothing more than a FAT ASS Camry clone:), but HEY... I'm just going by its looks, because thankfully it doesn't drive like one.:rolleyes:

cmicasa
06-09-09, 08:47 PM
Actually Lexus was launched worldwide in 1989. Since no dealer network was established in Japan, they rebadged them Toyotas there.

This changed in 2006 when Lexus dealerships opened.

Acura is sold only in America. There is no Acura outside America. Most of their vehicles are designed in California, made in Ohio as well.

Shall we talk about the Cadillac BLS? A Saab a Lac?


.


Nice history lesson on JAPAN'S Toyota Brands.. I bet U don;t kno that much about AMERICA'S GM, FORD, or Chrysler brands.:hmm:

OH.. and the 9-3 is considered to be premium... and not a bad place to start. The CAMRY on the other hand:bonkers:

1SICKLEX
06-09-09, 09:57 PM
Nice history lesson on JAPAN'S Toyota Brands.. I bet U don;t kno that much about AMERICA'S GM, FORD, or Chrysler brands.:hmm:

OH.. and the 9-3 is considered to be premium... and not a bad place to start. The CAMRY on the other hand:bonkers:

I know about all brands, its what makes me an auto enthusiast. About Caddy, I know that the STS of the 1990s was Caddy's first attempt at a true world car (I was a huge fan of it) even though it was FWD. In Europe it got shorter bumpers for instance. Intially Caddy frowned at the thoughts of a rebadged Tahoe. They said there would NEVER be a Caddy SUV. We know now that its their most popular model and was tremendous in turning around the brand. The Catera was an Opel Omega, "the Caddy that Zigs". It wasn't very good. They went with Art and Science and Caddy became very focused. We got the new CTS, STS, SRX and the V-series cars. I know the XLR never sold well, never met targets and there was an 18 months supply of vehicles after a coule years. The SRX and CTS shared interiors.

The V-series vehicles were very sporty and it was Caddy's effort to join the AMG/M/RS vehicles much like Lexus is trying with "F".

9-3 is barely premium. Also even Caddy admits it was a poor rebadge effort for Europe. It was last in ever comparo and sold very poorly and is now discontinued (I actually like the looks).

What is there to say about GM. They are bankrupt, our tax dollars are keeping them alive. Chrysler got raped by Daimhler as it WAS NOT a merger of equals. Benz took their cash, took their resources, fixed what was broken with Mercedes, then sold them off and left them for dead. Very sad. :(

1SICKLEX
06-09-09, 10:12 PM
That Lexus, IMHO, is hideous; and about as exciting as a CA DMV visit.
You are entitled to your opinion on the looks, clearly you haven't come close to driving it if you think its not exciting.


Buddy U are seriously barking up the wrong tree. While I don't own the nasty looking IS-F.. I have driven it a coupla times. It was actually part of the reason why I got rid of my STS and got into the new CTS-V.

Also.. I gotta say that after see U type that the current crop of Caddys are as "CUSHY" as Lexus.. I'm a lil taken aback. For SPORTINESS mixed with beautiful Luxo I will put an XLR up against an SC430... and STS up against an LS, a CTS up against a GS, an SRX up against an RX, or an Escalade up against an LX570 any day of the week... each time writing the check out to Cadillac over that Toyota POS.:yawn:

The difference between the LEXUS/Toyota Connection and the Cadillac/Chevy one is that the Caddy one only uses the PREMIUM bits from the Chevy line such as the CORVETTE and TAHOE. These are two vehicles that U can easily top out above $50K.. the Corvette $100K. :thumbsup:

Lexus on the other hand... chose in this debate to use a $18K Camry and a $24K Highlander/Venza as it's donors. Of Course I often say that the LS is nothing more than a FAT ASS Camry clone:), but HEY... I'm just going by its looks, because thankfully it doesn't drive like one.:rolleyes:

You don't know anything about Lexus. The LS 600h L tops out at 118k:thumbsup::thumbsup: and shares nothing with Toyotas. Its the only hybrid V-8 AWD car in the world. You are wrong about donors. The ES/RX share platforms with the Camry, where the Highlander/Venza are also spun off. Considering the awards/sales won, cleary its not a bad thing.

I was joking about Chevy connection as if you think Lexus is Toyota you are sadly mistaken. Lexus is now one of the 100 most valueable brands in the world, Caddy is not.

Caddy and Lexus both appeal to cushy and sport. To Caddy's credit they do have more V-series models.

Amazing you can call Lexus a POS when they have come after Caddy, passed Caddy and Caddy continues to try to catch up. I like Cadillac and I am always taking up for it when I can but its sad to see so many ignorant baseless comments about Lexus.

Its like me saying Cadillacs are Pontiacs. That is just ridiculous.

Playdrv4me
06-10-09, 01:42 AM
Lexus makes a good car. A reliable car... a luxurious car, a fuel efficient car (but don't get me started on hybrids) and now a reasonably fast car in many flavors. But by no means anything that excites the senses or that really stirs the soul the way a BMW or Cadillac does (the two brands I consider the REAL foreign and domestic anchors of the luxury segment for MANY reasons). Sure you can bolt on all the go-fast toys and body kits you like, but underneath you still have a Lexus. That's not just my view, you'll find that sentiment echoed in any mainstream car rag or web publication in the business of reviewing automobiles.

I will never forget a Car and Driver article I read years ago about the (then) new 1995 LS400. The car did everything right, it was reasonably fast, put together with laser precision and had the plushest interior this side of Bernie Madeoff's Yacht(s). Even with all of this going for it, C&D stated that it was like a great plate of fries... that just needed some ketchup. That pretty well sums it up right there.

All Lexus really has to do is appeal to the endless flurry of Mercedes buyers who are tired of their piss poor reliability record and terrible customer service and they have all the converts they'll ever need. Lexus gets plenty of Cadillac converts too, but if Cadillac can continue perfecting the formula they've been working on the past 5 or so years they should be able to quell those losses dramatically every passing quarter. It all depends on what each person values most. Offer your average hardcore Jaguar enthusiast to trade your SC430 for his Jag XK and 9 out of 10 of them will laugh all the way to their next scheduled repair appointment. They will happily continue dealing with those nagging headaches because they LOVE their cars (and that's not a great example because Jaguar's recent reliability is at the top... but I digress) again, with the exception of Merc owners many of whom are NOT enthusiasts.

As a former 2007 IS, 1990, 1998, and 2002 LS400(430) owner, and someone who has FREQUENTLY considered ownership of an LX470 or 2004 LS430 I have nothing but respect and props for Lexus.... But unless it's a SECONDARY car I just can't own one for more than six months without becoming completely snoozed with it. I traded my 2003 Range Rover on that 2007 IS I had and I was right back at the dealership a week later taking my (unusually reliable) Rangie back.

EDIT: To further illustrate my point, I had to come back and add the 1990 LS400 and 2002 LS430 to that last paragraph because I completely forgot I had even owned them! D'OH!

RightTurn
06-10-09, 07:56 AM
I used to own a Lexus. It was nice. :yawn:

cmicasa
06-10-09, 08:06 AM
You are entitled to your opinion on the looks, clearly you haven't come close to driving it if you think its not exciting.



You don't know anything about Lexus. The LS 600h L tops out at 118k:thumbsup::thumbsup: and shares nothing with Toyotas. Its the only hybrid V-8 AWD car in the world. You are wrong about donors. The ES/RX share platforms with the Camry, where the Highlander/Venza are also spun off. Considering the awards/sales won, cleary its not a bad thing.

I was joking about Chevy connection as if you think Lexus is Toyota you are sadly mistaken. Lexus is now one of the 100 most valueable brands in the world, Caddy is not.

Caddy and Lexus both appeal to cushy and sport. To Caddy's credit they do have more V-series models.

Amazing you can call Lexus a POS when they have come after Caddy, passed Caddy and Caddy continues to try to catch up. I like Cadillac and I am always taking up for it when I can but its sad to see so many ignorant baseless comments about Lexus.

Its like me saying Cadillacs are Pontiacs. That is just ridiculous.


Sorry bud.. but I never said the LS was based off the Camry.. I said IT LOOKS LIKE A FAT ASS CAMRY.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/07/13/automobiles/600-auto.jpg

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/03/27/002097.6-lg.jpg

:nono::helpless::nono:

Playdrv4me
06-10-09, 10:36 AM
:nono::helpless::nono:

Well... credit where credit is due, I find the DESIGN of the CURRENT Camry just fine. It is the EXECUTION that is as exciting as a piece of bread. As a result, I think the LS460 or the 600hL you pictured there are actually pretty damn nice looking (the larger size factor REALLY allows that design to work). I would not mind owning one of those one bit.

Jesda
06-10-09, 10:58 AM
The current LS seemed nice looking until the new Camry came out. It looks so much like the LS that the LS became watered down by association.

This Hyundai Genesis looks BEAUTIFUL in person:
http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent001/hyundai_genesis_3.jpg
When you see it live the first thing you notice is that it goes against the "taller is better!" styling trend. Except for that ugly grille, its long, low, and subtle.

As for 1SICKLEX, I remember him from years ago.

Destroyer
06-11-09, 06:47 AM
All Lexus really has to do is appeal to the endless flurry of Mercedes buyers who are tired of their piss poor reliability record and terrible customer service and they have all the converts they'll ever need. Lexus gets plenty of Cadillac converts too, but if Cadillac can continue perfecting the formula they've been working on the past 5 or so years they should be able to quell those losses dramatically every passing quarter. There are a lot of Mercedes and BMW owners that have turned to Lexus. A lot of Cadillac owners too. My next luxury car will be an LS Lexus. Quality, reliability AND resale value being the reasons. Cadillacs are virtually worthless in 5 years. I've passed on '02-up Deville's going for as low as $4k. I go to auctions, whenever there is a Caddy in the auction and you are just walking around, you can always hear someone uttering "these are junk", and it ain't me. . :bouncy:

Spyder
06-11-09, 09:02 AM
Back to the first post...what the hell is a "seque way"?

CIWS
06-11-09, 10:38 AM
My next luxury car will be an LS Lexus. Quality, reliability AND resale value being the reasons. Cadillacs are virtually worthless in 5 years.

Go look at what an 04 CTS-V cost new, and it's now % of depreciated value. Then compare it to say a 04 Lexus SC430 (one of the most expensive at the time) and compare the % of depreciation. I think you'll find they're not very far off from each other.

RightTurn
06-11-09, 11:30 AM
What's that Hyundai doing in here????

Playdrv4me
06-11-09, 11:33 AM
Go look at what an 04 CTS-V cost new, and it's now % of depreciated value. Then compare it to say a 04 Lexus SC430 (one of the most expensive at the time) and compare the % of depreciation. I think you'll find they're not very far off from each other.

I almost fell out of my chair the other day when I saw 2006 XLR-Vs with 40k miles going for 36k or less AT a GM dealership no less. 65k of depreciation in 3 years is insane, but I suppose that car didn't really deserve to be at that price point to begin with (and I don't think all but maybe the first couple actually rolled out the door with a 100k transaction price).

It really seems to depend on the model. The CTS in general has been an OUTSTANDING value holder, and the CTS-V even more-so, but the N* Cadillacs have always depreciated quite quickly. Still depreciation has nothing to do with my point. My point is that to a real car enthusiast, all of those things are secondary, as clearly evidenced by all the people who begrudgingly fork over the 4k to get their heads repaired on the older N* Caddys they love so much.

CIWS
06-11-09, 02:56 PM
I almost fell out of my chair the other day when I saw 2006 XLR-Vs with 40k miles going for 36k or less AT a GM dealership no less. 65k of depreciation in 3 years is insane, but I suppose that car didn't really deserve to be at that price point to begin with (and I don't think all but maybe the first couple actually rolled out the door with a 100k transaction price).

If you really want to be shocked go look up a 2005 Mercedes CL-65 (yes the 65) which sold for 180,000 then and see what they're going for now. :eek:


It really seems to depend on the model. The CTS in general has been an OUTSTANDING value holder, and the CTS-V even more-so, but the N* Cadillacs have always depreciated quite quickly. Still depreciation has nothing to do with my point. My point is that to a real car enthusiast, all of those things are secondary, as clearly evidenced by all the people who begrudgingly fork over the 4k to get their heads repaired on the older N* Caddys they love so much.

It does really depend upon the model. But with only a very few exceptions out there all cars of all makes depreciate badly. It almost makes no sense any more to buy a new car that costs 40K + when you can wait a year or two and save a buttload of money and still find a car with 20K or less miles on it.

Jesda
06-11-09, 03:36 PM
What's that Hyundai doing in here????

Chillaxin'

Playdrv4me
06-11-09, 06:31 PM
If you really want to be shocked go look up a 2005 Mercedes CL-65 (yes the 65) which sold for 180,000 then and see what they're going for now. :eek:



It does really depend upon the model. But with only a very few exceptions out there all cars of all makes depreciate badly. It almost makes no sense any more to buy a new car that costs 40K + when you can wait a year or two and save a buttload of money and still find a car with 20K or less miles on it.

Yes great points. In fairness to the Merc though, it did have a full-on redesign in 2007 which undoubtedly contributes to the horrendous resale of the '05s. Mercs in general seem to be some of the worst depreciators around though period.

On the flipside, I can't see any Audi R8 dipping below 70k for the better part of the next 4 years. I suspect those will maintain almost nil depreciation for a while, probably because they're already considered a relative bargain at the current price-point.

Hmm... I wonder what 2003 E55 AMGs are going for nowadays...

gary88
06-11-09, 06:51 PM
Around here E55s go for about $30k for '05 with 60,000 miles to $45k for an '06 w/ 18,000 miles.

Today on my walk to the gym I saw an IS250 with full-blown sheepskin seat covers. That tells you a lot about Lexus drivers.

RightTurn
06-11-09, 08:48 PM
Hay I used to drive a Lexus. :gungrin:

Destroyer
06-12-09, 12:10 AM
Go look at what an 04 CTS-V cost new, and it's now % of depreciated value. Then compare it to say a 04 Lexus SC430 (one of the most expensive at the time) and compare the % of depreciation. I think you'll find they're not very far off from each other.A CTS-V is a different story. It is the one model I would still buy and evidently, so would others. It's the only desirable car Cadillac has and it has a Chevy motor which makes it powerful and reliable. I trust Chevy power and no longer trust Cadillac powerplants. CTS-V and Escalade's are the 2 best cars Cadillac makes. Why not use a N* powered car as reference?

CIWS
06-12-09, 09:11 AM
A CTS-V is a different story. It is the one model I would still buy and evidently, so would others. It's the only desirable car Cadillac has and it has a Chevy motor which makes it powerful and reliable. I trust Chevy power and no longer trust Cadillac powerplants. CTS-V and Escalade's are the 2 best cars Cadillac makes. Why not use a N* powered car as reference?


The point was to say "Cadillacs" or "Lexus" (or most any name brand) depreciate or don't really is too general of a statement. Certain models of certain brands are better or worse than others. The CTS-V was an expensive sport/performance model for Cadillac as the SC430 was the expensive sport model for Lexus at the time. Both suffer from approximately the same levels of depriciation despite eithers reputations.

Sandy
06-12-09, 11:38 AM
Short & sweet:

I will only purchase products of G.M., Chrysler and / or Ford, that are built in the USA. Been driving 45 years and have owned:
2 Pontiacs (GTO & Grand Prix)
2 Buicks (Gran Sport 455 & Electra Limited)
2 Cadillacs (SDV & 60 Special)
2 Mustang GT
1 Mercury Capri
3 Lincolns ( Mark 6, Mark 8 & Town Car)
5 Imperials, all LeBarons & 1 Crown Convertible

There are other brands?? News to me ! ;):D

Gristle Boy
06-12-09, 01:11 PM
CTS-V ftw! The IS-F just looks butt ugly to me.

Destroyer
06-12-09, 11:09 PM
The point was to say "Cadillacs" or "Lexus" (or most any name brand) depreciate or don't really is too general of a statement. Certain models of certain brands are better or worse than others. The CTS-V was an expensive sport/performance model for Cadillac as the SC430 was the expensive sport model for Lexus at the time. Both suffer from approximately the same levels of depriciation despite eithers reputations.Compare a 5 year old N* powered car in price depreciation vs an LS Lexus that is just as old. CTS-V and SC430's are not the cars most Lexus and Cadillac owners buy.

Jesda
06-13-09, 03:25 PM
Hay I used to drive a Lexus. :gungrin:

We get drawn in by the craftsmanship, the comfort, the resale value, the quality, the amazing attention to detail... and then we get bored and want out.