: anyone ever use Engine Ice Hi-Performance Coolant



Talamant3z
05-20-09, 06:55 PM
anyone ever use or know of anyone who used Engine Ice Hi-Performance Coolant. i know its a race coolant but i wonder how it will stand in a northstar?

Raze
05-20-09, 10:10 PM
Nope, but I've run water wetter, good for a few deg drop across the board, but I've found the water/coolant mix alters how well it cools alot...

Ranger
05-20-09, 10:38 PM
Why do you want to use something that is meant for a race engine?

Talamant3z
05-20-09, 11:27 PM
well the northstar is a powerful engine right? and if it cools better than why not right?

Submariner409
05-21-09, 09:07 AM
Why ????? "Water wetters" and "race coolants" supposedly increase the heat transfer between metal and coolant - they DO NOT make the engine run cooler. In order to make the engine run cooler you need to change to a lower temperature thermostat: No water wetter or coolant will change the opening and closing temperatures of a thermostat. In today's computer-controlled engine packages a cold thermostat screws up fuel/air ratios and makes the engine "think" it's still cold, so it runs richer all the time.

The Northstar has a perfectly adequate cooling system - as a matter of fact, it is so good that even in the summer, cruising down the highway at 70, most FWD Northstars run at about 193 -200 degrees. The thermostat is set to begin opening at 188 and be fully open at 206. If the car's running at 198, the thermostat is only 60% open. The ONLY time the thermostat EVER goes fully open is under stop-and-go traffic conditions or all-out road racing.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it !!!!

Ranger
05-21-09, 10:47 AM
:banghead: Why oh why does everyone want to re-engineer these engines? Why does everyone think cooler is better? The engine would actually run more efficiently if they could get it to run at 300+ degrees. Bringing the temperatures down would be simple. The engineers know how to do that. Hell they used to run at 160. Standard running temps are up to 210 for years now for a reason.

Submariner409
05-21-09, 03:51 PM
:sneaky: When we were 20 we were pouring Wynn's Friction Proofing and Marvel Mystery Oil into every hole in the engine and gas tank. Some of us were even dumb enough to try dissolving moth balls in gasoline to make "race gas". Now we know better...... but it never stops.

Ranger
05-21-09, 04:42 PM
:histeric: Moth balls. I forgot about that. Yeah, I have to admit, I have succumbed to snake oil in my younger days. Guess I'm just trying to keep the young'uns from making the same mistakes. Some of these claims just irk me and I hate to see people fall for them and put money into the crooks pockets.

Talamant3z
05-21-09, 05:48 PM
Why ????? "Water wetters" and "race coolants" supposedly increase the heat transfer between metal and coolant - they DO NOT make the engine run cooler. In order to make the engine run cooler you need to change to a lower temperature thermostat: No water wetter or coolant will change the opening and closing temperatures of a thermostat. In today's computer-controlled engine packages a cold thermostat screws up fuel/air ratios and makes the engine "think" it's still cold, so it runs richer all the time.

The Northstar has a perfectly adequate cooling system - as a matter of fact, it is so good that even in the summer, cruising down the highway at 70, most FWD Northstars run at about 193 -200 degrees. The thermostat is set to begin opening at 188 and be fully open at 206. If the car's running at 198, the thermostat is only 60% open. The ONLY time the thermostat EVER goes fully open is under stop-and-go traffic conditions or all-out road racing.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it !!!!thats my issue right now. the damn good cooling system we have isnt worth a poop right now. im 230 idle and 215 driving and thatrs city stop and go in around 90 degrees. when i hit the high way i drop to 200 to 205 but the city is killing me . when i get out my damn motor cover is so hot it will burn your hand. but its only in idle my temp gets warm.

STSS
05-21-09, 06:01 PM
Have you checked for correct fan operation?

Krashed989
05-21-09, 06:15 PM
Might want to do a voltage drop test on the fan circuit. It could be spinning, just not getting enough juice.

Mr 5.19.
05-21-09, 07:29 PM
Why ????? "Water wetters" and "race coolants" supposedly increase the heat transfer between metal and coolant - they DO NOT make the engine run cooler. In order to make the engine run cooler you need to change to a lower temperature thermostat: No water wetter or coolant will change the opening and closing temperatures of a thermostat. In today's computer-controlled engine packages a cold thermostat screws up fuel/air ratios and makes the engine "think" it's still cold, so it runs richer all the time.

The Northstar has a perfectly adequate cooling system - as a matter of fact, it is so good that even in the summer, cruising down the highway at 70, most FWD Northstars run at about 193 -200 degrees. The thermostat is set to begin opening at 188 and be fully open at 206. If the car's running at 198, the thermostat is only 60% open. The ONLY time the thermostat EVER goes fully open is under stop-and-go traffic conditions or all-out road racing.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it !!!!

Preach!!! :worship:

Ranger
05-21-09, 09:07 PM
thats my issue right now. the damn good cooling system we have isnt worth a poop right now. im 230 idle and 215 driving and thatrs city stop and go in around 90 degrees. when i hit the high way i drop to 200 to 205 but the city is killing me . when i get out my damn motor cover is so hot it will burn your hand. but its only in idle my temp gets warm.
215 is normal. 230 is a tad high, but using a racing coolant or adding snake oil will only delay the repair at best. Have you checked the usual. Tensioner, purge line etc.? Does it get hot when you go WOT?

Talamant3z
05-21-09, 09:25 PM
215 is normal. 230 is a tad high, but using a racing coolant or adding snake oil will only delay the repair at best. Have you checked the usual. Tensioner, purge line etc.? Does it get hot when you go WOT?

whats the tensioner and purge line? also whats wot haha sorry not to familiar as i should be. also i have an suspicion that it might be because of my rigged ac hook up haha. my relay wasnt grounding right so i grounded it to the car so the compressor cuts on. the pcm still says the "service ac, compressor off" message. so to the pcm the compressor isnt on. it even says ac off on my climate control module when it really is on. so since the car thinks the ac is off the fan doesnt cut on like it should when the ac is on. could that cause my motor so run a little warmer since the fan isnt cutting on until it hits 224?

Ranger
05-21-09, 09:32 PM
I thought you where here long enough to know all this.

WOT = Wide Open Throttle.

Tensioner is the spring loaded pulley that keeps tension on the water pump belt. If it is not doing it's job, the belt could be slipping and not spinning the water pump like it should.

The purge line runs from the water pump housing (crossover manifold) to the top side of the surge tank. It should flow or at least spit coolant at idle. It purges air from the system.

If I understand you correctly, the compressor does not work so the fans are not on. The compressor is not putting any additional load on the engine so rule that out. The fans should come on at 224 though.

Talamant3z
05-21-09, 09:33 PM
also i have the service books and read the whole chapter on the engine cooling and it didnt say anything on my issue

Talamant3z
05-21-09, 09:38 PM
I thought you where here long enough to know all this.

WOT = Wide Open Throttle.

Tensioner is the spring loaded pulley that keeps tension on the water pump belt. If it is not doing it's job, the belt could be slipping and not spinning the water pump like it should.

The purge line runs from the water pump housing (crossover manifold) to the top side of the surge tank. It should flow or at least spit coolant at idle. It purges air from the system.

If I understand you correctly, the compressor does not work so the fans are not on. The compressor is not putting any additional load on the engine so rule that out. The fans should come on at 224 though.

ok so by wot should i do it by pedal or by the throttle body? should it heat up during a wot? and how can i tell if the belt can be slipping? also the compressor is on the car thinks its off so the fan doesnt cut on when i use the ac. so by running the ac without at least one fan one wouldnt make my heat jump? and the car never goes above 232 and it rare it hits 232 normally will run 215-217 when driving city and will jump to 224-228 in idle

Ranger
05-21-09, 09:48 PM
NO TB. Never WOT in neutral. WOT is on the road with your foot firmly planted to the floor all the way to a redline shift. That said if you are running with the A/C on and no fans, that may be your problem. Very little air flow in the city, thus no cooling. Remember that the A/C condenser is in front of the radiator so all that heat is passed back over the radiator with no air flow to cool it. When you jury rig these systems you usually solve one problem, but create another.

Talamant3z
05-21-09, 09:57 PM
NO TB. Never WOT in neutral. WOT is on the road with your foot firmly planted to the floor all the way to a redline shift. That said if you are running with the A/C on and no fans, that may be your problem. Very little air flow in the city, thus no cooling. Remember that the A/C condenser is in front of the radiator so all that heat is passed back over the radiator with no air flow to cool it. When you jury rig these systems you usually solve one problem, but create another.

well im going to try running with the ground off so the ac wont work. if it my colling system is working good what should the temps be in the city running and in idle (i live in houston and its hot and humid 90's right now). so should the car heat up in wot?

Ranger
05-21-09, 10:06 PM
The reason I asked about WOT was to rule out or condemn the head gasket. A bad head gasket will usually cause the engine to heat up under a load, but I no longer think that is your problem.

My '97 (digidash) ran 205-210 during 95 degree days with the A/C on. I don't do any city driving, but if the system is operating as it should, I'd expect about the same temps. Maybe a tad higher.

Talamant3z
05-21-09, 10:49 PM
The reason I asked about WOT was to rule out or condemn the head gasket. A bad head gasket will usually cause the engine to heat up under a load, but I no longer think that is your problem.

My '97 (digidash) ran 205-210 during 95 degree days with the A/C on. I don't do any city driving, but if the system is operating as it should, I'd expect about the same temps. Maybe a tad higher.

ok just got back from testing haha. took the ground off. its night so its 79 right now. car ran when i first started driving 203 then while i was driving longer (the feeder good 2 miles between lights going 60ish it dropped to 196-197. i did some short wot and it would raise 2 or 3 more degrees no more . now while in idle it was 205. when i got to the gas station (took the long way) i let the car sit for maybe 3 mins. while i paid it got to 217. put my gas and left car rode home with stop and go driving around 205-215ish. when i got home after all the driving (mind you i took the long way and stop a little longer at stop signs haha) i left the car sit. it rose to 226 after sitting for 5mins. didnt go any higher i let it sit longer and still nothing higher than 226. is 226 still warm? niddle was 75% till it hit the first line. so what you think ranger could my issue be my rigged ac relay ground or is it still running warm at idle? i also checked and i didnt loose any coolant out of the overflow tank so i am not loosing coolant

Krashed989
05-21-09, 11:30 PM
226 is fine. Remember the fans only kick in at 224 and it takes a small amount of time to first cool the coolant down and then make the coolant flow all the way from the radiator to the back head on the engine where the coolant temperature sensor is.

I'm curious about your A/C jimmy-rig. Does the compressor run constantly when the A/C is on? I would be worried about over pressurizing the high side on the a/c loop. Plus that would cause a very significant amount of heat in the condenser core (probably why you're running hot). And then you have no fan operating to cool that down, which would cause poor A/C performance (the difference between cool air and cold air in a hot summer day). Your A/C system is a time bomb running it like that. Something is going to give.

Talamant3z
05-21-09, 11:49 PM
226 is fine. Remember the fans only kick in at 224 and it takes a small amount of time to first cool the coolant down and then make the coolant flow all the way from the radiator to the back head on the engine where the coolant temperature sensor is.

I'm curious about your A/C jimmy-rig. Does the compressor run constantly when the A/C is on? I would be worried about over pressurizing the high side on the a/c loop. Plus that would cause a very significant amount of heat in the condenser core (probably why you're running hot). And then you have no fan operating to cool that down, which would cause poor A/C performance (the difference between cool air and cold air in a hot summer day). Your A/C system is a time bomb running it like that. Something is going to give.

well the compressor is always cycling. and yeah the ac lines going on the back of the motor gets hot as sh!t burnt my hand once. but i will say ac is ice cold but in idle it gets warm and when i dirve it gets cold again. for some reason my relay isnt gorunding and it the ac wont work unless i hook the ground i made. i think its the pcm because i changed the climate control module because i tought it was that. i have the service book for my car and im trying the find that damn gorund but it gets hot here over 90 already!

Krashed989
05-22-09, 12:02 AM
...but i will say ac is ice cold but in idle it gets warm and when i drive it gets cold again...

That's because the fan isn't coming on with the a/c. Anything over 40mph and you really don't need fans at all.

Cycling, meaning it the compressor does disengage periodically? or cycling meaning its just always running?

What codes are you getting?

Talamant3z
05-22-09, 12:14 AM
That's because the fan isn't coming on with the a/c. Anything over 40mph and you really don't need fans at all.

Cycling, meaning it the compressor does disengage periodically? or cycling meaning its just always running?

What codes are you getting?

its always running. and here are my current codes i got rid of all the history ones and they come back. also when i get rid of them all the "service ac, compressor off" goes away from the dash. i know of these has something to do with the high side on the ac i think
ipc b2710 h
acm b1314 c
pzm b2719 c
msm b2118 c
msm b2119 h
msm b2120 h

Talamant3z
05-22-09, 12:18 AM
ipc b2710 h-PASSKey Open/Shorted Pellet
acm b1314 c-Evaporator Inlet Temp Sensor Open Circuit
pzm b2719 c-CTD-Trunk Tamper Switch Fault
msm b2118 cFront Vertical Sensor Failed
msm b2119 h-Lumbar Forward/Aft Sensor Failed
msm b2120 h-Lumbar Up/Down Sensor Failed

i think its b1314 im going to look it up now in my serivce book if u have any idea on my issue please post i been dealing with this demon from some time now

Krashed989
05-22-09, 12:40 AM
I think that's probably where your problem is, not the PCM... Unplug that sensor and look at the connector. It's easy to try and plug that connector in the wrong way, plus the terminals inside are skinny and easily bent. If you don't see anything wrong with the connector, put an ohmmeter to the terminals on the sensor to see if it reads open, or a lot of ohms. If it does, replace the sensor.

This is the guy right here:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c296/Krashed989/sensor.jpg

Talamant3z
05-22-09, 01:26 AM
ok i will read this thread i just made it has all the info from the book im going to copy your post so i can have all the info in one thread
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-seville-cadillac-eldorado-forum/170191-acm-b1314.html#post1885204

thanks for the help bro

Ranger
05-22-09, 09:57 AM
Your temps sound pretty normal to me. Get those fans fixed.

stngh8r
06-24-09, 02:24 PM
Why ????? "Water wetters" and "race coolants" supposedly increase the heat transfer between metal and coolant - they DO NOT make the engine run cooler. In order to make the engine run cooler you need to change to a lower temperature thermostat: No water wetter or coolant will change the opening and closing temperatures of a thermostat. In today's computer-controlled engine packages a cold thermostat screws up fuel/air ratios and makes the engine "think" it's still cold, so it runs richer all the time.

The Northstar has a perfectly adequate cooling system - as a matter of fact, it is so good that even in the summer, cruising down the highway at 70, most FWD Northstars run at about 193 -200 degrees. The thermostat is set to begin opening at 188 and be fully open at 206. If the car's running at 198, the thermostat is only 60% open. The ONLY time the thermostat EVER goes fully open is under stop-and-go traffic conditions or all-out road racing.

The purpose of "water wetter" and "race coolants" is not necessarily to decrease the temperature reading of the coolant, but as you correctly stated, to increase the cooling ability at the combustion chamber. Increasing heat transfer between coolant/metal, decreasing boil off and cooling the combustion chamber more efficiently helps decrease knock! Therefore, in todays "computer controlled" vehicles, this would be an advantage.

BTW, pick up the most current GM HighTech magazine. A chassis dyno before and after doing a little maintenance and switching to Evans NPG. pretty impressive results.


http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0904gmhtp_how_to_eliminate_knock_retard/index.html

http://www.evanscooling.com/main25.htm