: From back when Pontiac was game on...



hueterm
05-18-09, 07:47 PM
...now I just have a few years of restorations to do:

1970 Grand Prix Model J

1.) A/C (controls and blower motor at minimum)
2.) Interior
3.) Body
4.) Paint

"Hoping"...I can get it all done for less than $10K...luckily not much mechanical work to do.

The bulk of the hood struts crack me up...

gdwriter
05-18-09, 07:59 PM
Damn, that's a sharp car, even in it's un-restored state. Pontiac was red hot during the 60s which so many bold, distinctive designs and the performance to back it up. It's really a shame Pontiac wasted away its legacy so much that even the excellent G8 couldn't rescue the brand.

What engine is in your Grand Prix? 400? 455? Even if it sucks gas like a B-52, who cares?

hueterm
05-18-09, 08:07 PM
Thanks --

I'm almost positive it's the 400. I know it's the 4-B carb, which required the 400 or 455. I think the 455 was only available on the SJ.

It's fast even now after sitting for 15 yrs, but the ETC would blow it away. It's filthy in these pictures, and the interior is a wreck. The exterior is a good maybe 30 footer. It's the 2nd paint job, but original color. The rust has just bubbled up parts of the paint. It would look better if washed, but the interior is terrible except for the dash. I lucked out there...

A lot of the parts can be gotten as reproductions, so hopefully it will be doable w/o a lot of searching.

Destroyer
05-18-09, 09:19 PM
I LOVE that car! Those year GP's were the best IMO. Buddy had a similar one with a 428 and I wanted one ever since. Just plain cool! Good luck with it.

hueterm
05-18-09, 09:26 PM
I LOVE that car! Those year GP's were the best IMO. Buddy had a similar one with a 428 and I wanted one ever since. Just plain cool! Good luck with it.


Thanks -- I took my driving test in that car. (And passed parallel parking :-)

Dad didn't want it anymore and it hadn't been driven since the early '90s. It does tend to leak a little trans fluid. Hopefully Lucas will fix that up. Worst mechanical problem now is the lack of blower motor and hence A/C...

hueterm
05-19-09, 12:52 AM
Oh...and once it is finally restored -- I have to get the LOUD ASS mufflers replaced that the burnout Midas guy talked me into when I was in high school.

"Duuude...those will sound awesome man!"

Aron9000
05-19-09, 01:19 AM
Nice Grand Prix!! I really miss the personal luxury coupe(aka pimp-mobile) era, these cars were so overwraught, humongous, and over the top. Wish we still had cars like the Lincoln Mark's, boat tail Riverias, Eldorados, Coupe Devilles, Imperial LeBarons, Toranodos, etc.

gdwriter
05-19-09, 02:24 AM
The bulk of the hood struts crack me up...No surprise given the six-foot-long hood. Betty's hood hinges are huge, too.


I LOVE that car! Those year GP's were the best IMO. Buddy had a similar one with a 428 and I wanted one ever since. Just plain cool! Good luck with it.:yeah:


Thanks -- I took my driving test in that car. (And passed parallel parking :-)I took my driver's test in the '64 Impala I grew up with an learned to drive in. Parallel parked her perfectly the first time.

Aron9000
05-19-09, 03:25 AM
No surprise given the six-foot-long hood. Betty's hood hinges are huge, too.

:yeah:

I took my driver's test in the '64 Impala I grew up with an learned to drive in. Parallel parked her perfectly the first time.


I love parking huge ass cars, I kind of see it as a rewarding challenge.

To the OP: If you have to do a rebuild on the engine, do a hi-po build on it. It would be fun to see that big ass car click off a 13 second quarter mile.

MauiV
05-19-09, 03:45 AM
Man I miss my 75 (my frst car). I need to dig around in pics at my moms to find some of it.

I would guess its a 400 with a Quadrajet Carb

Night Wolf
05-19-09, 08:24 PM
Nice! That seems to be in really good shape, sounds like a fun project :)

My father still has his '74 Grand Prix, the only car he ever bought brand new. It needs total resteration as it has been sitting outside for over 20yrs now. It's a triple green that he said was really sharp when new.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-19-09, 08:30 PM
Sweeet ride! One of my favorite vintage Pontiacs! If I'm not mistaken, that had the longest hood on any car in 1970, but it might have been the Mark III, I don't remember.

Man, seeing those pictures really makes me respect the Pontiac of the '60s. I love how yours has those super deep gauges, bucket seats, console and floor shift, and those PMD decals on the wheels are just like the ones my uncle had on his '70 GTO.

Night Wolf
05-19-09, 10:17 PM
This thread deserves this video:

BmHxf4H-kLI

hueterm
05-19-09, 10:34 PM
REPAIR #1: (Probable) Water Pump (will find out tomorrow)

Leave gym to find a slick of antifreeze running through the parking lot -- mine of course. The whole calling AAA, waiting for flatbed, dropping at dealer, and picking up ETC takes about an hour and a half...

Not how I planned on spending the evening...(!)

BTW, I love that car chase, and that Grand Ville was a tank -- but that guy in it CREEPS me out...

hueterm
05-19-09, 10:54 PM
Sweeet ride! One of my favorite vintage Pontiacs! If I'm not mistaken, that had the longest hood on any car in 1970, but it might have been the Mark III, I don't remember.

Man, seeing those pictures really makes me respect the Pontiac of the '60s. I love how yours has those super deep gauges, bucket seats, console and floor shift, and those PMD decals on the wheels are just like the ones my uncle had on his '70 GTO.


I used to drive it all the time, and never knew any different -- but not having a center arm rest is literally a pain in the neck. Of course, I don't drive it very far and long, so I can tough it out. (Or buy a granny pillow to put between the seats...)

Apparently the PMD caps were much more desirable than the Pontiac emblem caps. A guy that worked at a hub cap store when we were kids always tried to buy them off of me...

the cadillac kid
05-19-09, 10:55 PM
That's absolutely awesome man, congrats :highfive:

hueterm
05-19-09, 10:57 PM
Nice Grand Prix!! I really miss the personal luxury coupe(aka pimp-mobile) era, these cars were so overwraught, humongous, and over the top. Wish we still had cars like the Lincoln Mark's, boat tail Riverias, Eldorados, Coupe Devilles, Imperial LeBarons, Toranodos, etc.


If anyone made one now (other than the 100 grand M-B CL), I'd buy it... I have a pretty good track record w/them:

'70 GP
'77 GP
'83 GP
(Mom and Dad had an '83 Toro, but I never drove it very much -- it was sweet though...)
'92 Toro
'99 GP
'97 Riv
'00 Eldo

hueterm
05-20-09, 05:38 PM
CORRECTION to REPAIR #1: Radiator hose -- not water pump. And supposedly, the rest of the belts and hoses are fine...(we'll see...)

One of the parts guys at the dealer pulled me aside and said that he has a 390 BHP H.O. 428 w/matching numbers trans (from a '69)... He's not asking that much, but I have no way to know what kind of shape they're truly in. I've got the space to store it, and I'm admittedly tempted...

orconn
05-20-09, 05:53 PM
Yeah, the absence of the American "personal Luxury coupe" from the marketplace for so many years has really left a void. The only options we have had have been extraordinarily over priced European models. I quess Detroit thought it was more profitable selling SUVs to mimser mamas, than trying to exploit this nitch which they had done quite well in the 1970's, leaving us guys and hip young women (they really liked those CLKs) to fend for ourselves.

hueterm
05-23-09, 02:00 AM
Never was a big fan of the CLK...however, the new E class coupe they're launching does look better.

At least it doesn't look like some clone of the Infiniti G coupe (a la CTS coupe)...

The new Lincoln MKS would make a nice looking coupe.....make it a MK9....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-23-09, 02:03 AM
The G37, CLK and 3 Series are the only reasonably priced "luxury" coupes available in the US, but they don't have the luxury feel, or size of the older personal luxury coupes. It's not the same. :(

Night Wolf
05-23-09, 02:47 AM
You can keep the new 3-series.

I'll take a 1-series, twin turbo, convertible and (real) manual trans please :)

BMW went back to what they are all about with that little gem, actually bringing back what the 2002 was all about. This is about as close as BMW will probably get again to the E30, and thus a stright up "drivers" car. No iDrive either! I'd like to drive one some day. The 135i is said to be faster then the E46 M3, but unlike the E46 it is smaller and lighter, actually very close in size to the E30. Something to think about in the future years when the E30 gets retired form it's semi-daily driver status.... other then the questionable Bangle styling, which is slowly growing on me.... maaaan that would make a nice mate to my E30, can get it in red too :)

I'd say the new 1-series, convertible or hardtop form is as close to the "personal luxury coupe" as you are gonna get, the 3-series is as big as the old 5-series was.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/bmw/bmw_images/bmw-1-series-convertible-02-10-07.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/Florida/101-02-09050.jpg

That's the only current BMW that appeals to me.... is on the future "would buy" list.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-23-09, 08:48 AM
Great cars, and I almost wanna say a "good deal", because it's a BMW with a base price below $30,000! :lol: But it's not really a personal luxury coupe, in the classic sense, because it's too small and too sporty. Personal luxury cars, in their prime, to me were always a bit smaller (yet still full-sized) than their full sized cousins, a little more flashy and powerful, and a little more expensive, but hardly a true driver's car. For example, even into the '90s, the STS was always sportier and more involving to drive than the ETC.

The 6 or 8 Series is BMW's true personal luxury coupe IMO.

hueterm
05-23-09, 11:12 AM
If I wanted to search for the drool icon, I'd insert it here...but... 8 Series.....

Night Wolf
05-23-09, 11:24 AM
Great cars, and I almost wanna say a "good deal", because it's a BMW with a base price below $30,000! :lol: But it's not really a personal luxury coupe, in the classic sense, because it's too small and too sporty. Personal luxury cars, in their prime, to me were always a bit smaller (yet still full-sized) than their full sized cousins, a little more flashy and powerful, and a little more expensive, but hardly a true driver's car. For example, even into the '90s, the STS was always sportier and more involving to drive than the ETC.

The 6 or 8 Series is BMW's true personal luxury coupe IMO.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. The 1-series is more sporty then luxury.

Less money and it is faster, lighter and handles/brakes better then the 3-series with the same engine. Plus the new 3-series convertible went to a hardtop, leaving the 1-series with a rag top, which I prefer for the whole drivers car thing anything.

MauiV
05-23-09, 11:47 AM
CL63 FTMFW!!!!!!!!! Pure sex

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/Mercedes-Benz-CL-63-AMG-C216_836.jpg

M6 Vert. Only BMW of the last 25 years I would even consider owning.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/nm-2007-bmw-individual-m6.jpg

thebigjimsho
05-23-09, 04:00 PM
You can keep the new 3-series.

I'll take a 1-series, twin turbo, convertible and (real) manual trans please :)

BMW went back to what they are all about with that little gem, actually bringing back what the 2002 was all about. This is about as close as BMW will probably get again to the E30, and thus a stright up "drivers" car. No iDrive either! I'd like to drive one some day. The 135i is said to be faster then the E46 M3, but unlike the E46 it is smaller and lighter, actually very close in size to the E30. Something to think about in the future years when the E30 gets retired form it's semi-daily driver status.... other then the questionable Bangle styling, which is slowly growing on me.... maaaan that would make a nice mate to my E30, can get it in red too :)

I'd say the new 1-series, convertible or hardtop form is as close to the "personal luxury coupe" as you are gonna get, the 3-series is as big as the old 5-series was.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/bmw/bmw_images/bmw-1-series-convertible-02-10-07.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/Florida/101-02-09050.jpg

That's the only current BMW that appeals to me.... is on the future "would buy" list.


Yeah, I understand what you are saying. The 1-series is more sporty then luxury.

Less money and it is faster, lighter and handles/brakes better then the 3-series with the same engine. Plus the new 3-series convertible went to a hardtop, leaving the 1-series with a rag top, which I prefer for the whole drivers car thing anything.
Tell you what, you can read all the brochures you want about what the 1 series is "suppose" to be about. The reason for the 1 series is to have a smaller car. But it's not much lighter, doesn't put up measurably better number than the 3 series and is not nearly as good looking as the 3 series.

As someone who was brought up around a 2002 and whose parents still own their original '72, to say the 1 series is getting back to the 2002 roots is absolutely laughable.

It's like my point with some of the SHO guys. The new SHO is well over 1,000lbs heavier than the original, much bigger and powered by something totally different than the original Yamaha. The 1 series will never be anything that made the 2002 special...

hueterm
05-23-09, 04:49 PM
CL63 FTMFW!!!!!!!!! Pure sex

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/Mercedes-Benz-CL-63-AMG-C216_836.jpg




No argument there. This gen is SO much better than the previous. However, the W140 coupe was the pinnacle....

gdwriter
05-23-09, 04:58 PM
When I was in fifth grade, one of the youngest, prettiest teachers had a brand new, black '76 Monte Carlo similar to the one below. I always loved to look at it in the school parking lot, and I told Mrs. Cook how much I liked her car. I think she was flattered.

http://www.montecarloclub.com/Member%20Photos%2073%20-%2077/Duane%20Cadwell%2076%20Front%20Left.jpg

One my college girlfriends had a '76 Monte Carlo with a 350. I loved taking that car out on dates; it was so different from my '74 Celica, but it was so much fun to drive. For a 70s smog-choked V8, it could still move, and it handled amazingly well for such a big car. Our breakup was mutual and amicable; I think I ended up missing the car more than the girl. :histeric:

hueterm
05-23-09, 05:25 PM
I still think the GP was the best looking of the four (CS, Regal, or MC) -- but the MC was a close second...

Funny how in '78 when they were downsized, they all looked like ASS... They improved somewhat in '81 or '82 or whenever it was when they were upsized a little bit.

Night Wolf
05-23-09, 06:05 PM
Tell you what, you can read all the brochures you want about what the 1 series is "suppose" to be about. The reason for the 1 series is to have a smaller car. But it's not much lighter, doesn't put up measurably better number than the 3 series and is not nearly as good looking as the 3 series.

As someone who was brought up around a 2002 and whose parents still own their original '72, to say the 1 series is getting back to the 2002 roots is absolutely laughable.

It's like my point with some of the SHO guys. The new SHO is well over 1,000lbs heavier than the original, much bigger and powered by something totally different than the original Yamaha. The 1 series will never be anything that made the 2002 special...

What I'm saying is, the 1-series is as close as BMW is going to get in modern day to the 2002 or E30 in terms of being a "drivers" car.

With all the other cars, including the 3-series becoming bigger, heavier and loaded up with more luxury stuff, I'd say it stands true that the 1-series is getting back to what made BMW what they are today. Of course there will be those that buy one just for the badge, but other then that, it's not like it leads the competition in luxury features, room or comfort. The 1-series is rather basic in terms of options and features when compared to the rest of BMW's lineup.

The 2002 was a stright up drivers car, that heritage carried on to the E30 as well. Sure it was the 80's yuppie car of choice, but unlike the E36 and later cars, it is more raw then refined. Was made to be a drivers car and in the case of the M3 - win races on the track (DTM) not on the street.

That's what I was saying about the new 1-series, it is as close as BMW is going to get to making a pure drivers car again. Personally you can keep the iDrive and all the rest. Maybe thats why some people bought a BMW, but not me. The E46's styling is nearly perfection, but it is still pretty big to be a fun tossable car such as the E30. E36 is still growing on me. With the 135i being as fast/faster then the E46 M3, it makes it a very good choice in the future, atleast for me.

Styling is subjective, so there is really no point in debating which looks better, 1 vs 3-series. The Bangle styling is growing on me, but I am really starting to like the small/simple 1-series styling over the more busy 3-series... it reminds me of the E30.

The 1-series is a good bit smaller then the 3-series. The new 3-series is abotu as big as a 90's 5-series was, the 1-series is rather close in size to the E30, check it out:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3708759&page=1

In that thread someone made a post, I think this is what I am trying to say, and possibly how you feel as well....


Ncie comparison. I was expecting the 1-series to be a little bit bigger than that by comparison...but they are pretty much spot on. It's like I've been saying since the 1-coupe was shown...spiritual successor to the e30...not this 2002 business they've been going on about.

The 2002 was a drivers car, the E30 was also a drivers car, alot of that feeling was lost in the E36 and E46.... the 1-series is sorta getting back to where the E30 left off. With all that said, I've yet to drive one, maybe I'll be disapointed with it, I dunno, but atleast from everything I've seen/read/heard from owners, it seems promising.

gdwriter
05-23-09, 06:20 PM
I still think the GP was the best looking of the four (CS, Regal, or MC) -- but the MC was a close second...

Funny how in '78 when they were downsized, they all looked like ASS... They improved somewhat in '81 or '82 or whenever it was when they were upsized a little bit.I definitely agree on the downsized ones. The 70-72 Grand Prix and Monte Carlo and 73-77 GP, MC, Cutlass Supreme and Regal were all sharp cars.

thebigjimsho
05-23-09, 08:49 PM
What I'm saying is, the 1-series is as close as BMW is going to get in modern day to the 2002 or E30 in terms of being a "drivers" car.

With all the other cars, including the 3-series becoming bigger, heavier and loaded up with more luxury stuff, I'd say it stands true that the 1-series is getting back to what made BMW what they are today. Of course there will be those that buy one just for the badge, but other then that, it's not like it leads the competition in luxury features, room or comfort. The 1-series is rather basic in terms of options and features when compared to the rest of BMW's lineup.

The 2002 was a stright up drivers car, that heritage carried on to the E30 as well. Sure it was the 80's yuppie car of choice, but unlike the E36 and later cars, it is more raw then refined. Was made to be a drivers car and in the case of the M3 - win races on the track (DTM) not on the street.

That's what I was saying about the new 1-series, it is as close as BMW is going to get to making a pure drivers car again. Personally you can keep the iDrive and all the rest. Maybe thats why some people bought a BMW, but not me. The E46's styling is nearly perfection, but it is still pretty big to be a fun tossable car such as the E30. E36 is still growing on me. With the 135i being as fast/faster then the E46 M3, it makes it a very good choice in the future, atleast for me.

Styling is subjective, so there is really no point in debating which looks better, 1 vs 3-series. The Bangle styling is growing on me, but I am really starting to like the small/simple 1-series styling over the more busy 3-series... it reminds me of the E30.

The 1-series is a good bit smaller then the 3-series. The new 3-series is abotu as big as a 90's 5-series was, the 1-series is rather close in size to the E30, check it out:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3708759&page=1

In that thread someone made a post, I think this is what I am trying to say, and possibly how you feel as well....



The 2002 was a drivers car, the E30 was also a drivers car, alot of that feeling was lost in the E36 and E46.... the 1-series is sorta getting back to where the E30 left off. With all that said, I've yet to drive one, maybe I'll be disapointed with it, I dunno, but atleast from everything I've seen/read/heard from owners, it seems promising.
The 1 series is no more a driver's car than the 3 series. It is smaller, but not much lighter. It's driving dynamics aren't any better than the 3 series. The 3 series is still the best driver's sedan around.

Now, I love my V and will always buy Cadillac V series until they're not made anymore, but the handling of the 3 series is about some of the best around.

hueterm
05-23-09, 11:03 PM
We're deviating from a thread re: a behemoth 1970 GP in need of restoration -- but that's OK by me -- especially since I've always wanted to askk this question:

Why would someone buy a BMW that wasn't luxurious?

This isn't the early '70s -- BMWs aren't tin cans anymore and M-Bs have power windows..."Old Man Daimler" isn't around anymore to forbid their use.

If you want the modern equivalent to a BMW 2002, get one of those boxy ricer Subaru WRXs or whatever they are.

hueterm
05-23-09, 11:09 PM
The 1 series is no more a driver's car than the 3 series. It is smaller, but not much lighter. It's driving dynamics aren't any better than the 3 series. The 3 series is still the best driver's sedan around.

Now, I love my V and will always buy Cadillac V series until they're not made anymore, but the handling of the 3 series is about some of the best around.


The 1 also looks like the runt piglet who didn't get a teat. The 3 coupe is gorgeous (if a little bit small, but it is a 3). IMO, it's better than the 6, which needs a rhinoplasty and was an unsuccessful channeling of the rear end of the old Jag XJS (at least the convertible is better in that regard).

The 1 is all a marketing joke to make people think they're cool b/c they're foregoing some creature comforts, and that they're a true driver. I can see selling it as a cheap opening model, but against the 3 coupe that doesn't cost a whole lot more???? :bonkers:

Night Wolf
05-23-09, 11:56 PM
The 1 series is no more a driver's car than the 3 series. It is smaller, but not much lighter. It's driving dynamics aren't any better than the 3 series. The 3 series is still the best driver's sedan around.

Now, I love my V and will always buy Cadillac V series until they're not made anymore, but the handling of the 3 series is about some of the best around.

You just said it yourself - the 3 series is one of the best handling sedans.

Atleast right now, I don't want a sedan, or a hardtop. The convertible is what has my attention. With that said, I'll pass on the larger, heavier hardtop convertible 3-series with more luxury stuff like idrive in place of the 1-series. Both are steller cars, it's just personal preference. I -really- like the e30, and for reasons other then the badge. I think what it comes down to for me is that the 1-series is closer to a modern e30 then the 3-series, that's what I like about it. The upper series BMW's while being nice, just don't do a lot for me. Blame the e30 for that.

Night Wolf
05-24-09, 12:03 AM
We're deviating from a thread re: a behemoth 1970 GP in need of restoration -- but that's OK by me -- especially since I've always wanted to askk this question:

Why would someone buy a BMW that wasn't luxurious?

This isn't the early '70s -- BMWs aren't tin cans anymore and M-Bs have power windows..."Old Man Daimler" isn't around anymore to forbid their use.

If you want the modern equivalent to a BMW 2002, get one of those boxy ricer Subaru WRXs or whatever they are.

HUH?

Believe it or not, there are fans of BMW that don't drive one for the badge, or for a loaded luxury car.

I'm one of those fans. I like it bravise it is an incredibly fun, small and light well balanced rwd performance car. In fact it was between the e30 and a 1st hen miata when I was looking.

If you still don't get it, checkout e30tech and r3vlimited.

thebigjimsho
05-24-09, 12:09 AM
I think what it comes down to for me is that the 1-series is closer to a modern e30 then the 3-series, that's what I like about it. The upper series BMW's while being nice, just don't do a lot for me. Blame the e30 for that.
Maybe in a couple dimensions, but that's about it. I'm not saying you shouldn't like the 1 series, but most of the reasons you give don't make sense to me...

Night Wolf
05-24-09, 03:48 AM
Maybe in a couple dimensions, but that's about it. I'm not saying you shouldn't like the 1 series, but most of the reasons you give don't make sense to me...

Ah well, for what it's worth, none of the new BMW's, including the 1-series appeal to me on nearly the level of the old ones. I was simply saying that if in the future I was to buy what is currently a new BMW, the 1-series would be it. But with all the E24's, E30's, E32's, E34's, E38's..... and heck we'll throw in the E36 and possibly the E46 as well, I should be plenty content :).

Previous reply was on the BlackBerry waiting for star trek in imax to start... let me expand.


We're deviating from a thread re: a behemoth 1970 GP in need of restoration -- but that's OK by me -- especially since I've always wanted to askk this question:

Why would someone buy a BMW that wasn't luxurious?

What made "modern day" BMW..... BMW, would be the 2002. With that said, BMW was first widely spread because of their excellent driving dynamics. Not high horsepower engines or overflowing with luxury, in fact the 2002 was much the opposite. That is also why even today the 3-series is such a great seller, as well as praised by folks who have 5 and 7 series. In all of it's forms, it has been what BMW was all about. In comparison, that is why the Mercedes C-class is looked down upon by many, especially those of E and S class. Mercedes started out building large trucks and luxury cars, then moved on to fill a void with smaller cars. But that is not what they were all about. The 190E was an excellent car, and proved to be a solid DTM car, since then Mercedes has yet to offer an entry-level car that is worthy of the Mercedes badge, or carrying on where the 190E left off.

It wasn't until the 90's when BMW went more mainstream, starting with the E36, that they really started becoming known as a premium luxury car like they are today.

To say why would someone buy a BMW that wasn't luxurious would be like saying why would someone buy a Cadillac that wasn't sporty.

Not make sense?

Cadillac, traditionally made flat out overly done luxury cars with nearly no emphasis on performance and especially handling. Today with the V-series and CTS, you see Cadillacs that are made for performance and handling.

It's easy for alot of folks on this site to look beyond that and see what Cadillac was making, just 10yrs ago.

For someone that was never interested in Cadillac, but is now in, say the CTS-V. It would be easy for them to say something along the lines of "man, why would anyone buy a Cadillac unless it was a performance car?" Yet for alteast alot of us here, we can understand why someone would buy a '58 DeVille, a '78 DeVille or a '98 DeVille.

All out luxury cars are what Cadillac was once all about, not performance cars made for handling. The same is true for BMW. BMW made cars to win races on the track, not flatter the world with luxury gadgets.

The 2002 brought what we know as the modern day BMW, quite a change from the old Isetta. This is what it was built to do:

ufwzC6mvAsA

Likewise, the E30, and moreso in M3 flavor carried on that tradition, this is what it was built to do:

nUAE-819OG4&feature=channel_page

My E30 has alot of neat options and features about it, but I still would not consider it a luxury car. Besides the power windows/locks/mirrors (but fully manual seats, and no tilt steering at all) it has the on board computer and light/fluid warning panel, but that's pretty much it. It's got modern fuel injection, 4-wheel ABS and a limited slip with no traction control. As far as I am concerned it is the perfect mix of options as it's got all the features I like/want in a car but none of the extras. I like the raw/raspy nature of it, you feel everything the car is doing, it was not made to isolate you in any way. You can keep your modern ultra-luxury BMW's, give me the classics! Part of me says to start my own little stockpile of E30's so I can guarantee that I will have a supply for some time to come. I'd daily drive the heck outta them, to me it's just an all around perfect example of a drivers car. Once mine is driveable again you can bet I'll be using it -often. It was built to be driven, and that's exactly what I am going to do with it.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-24-09, 11:55 AM
That is also why even today the 3-series is such a great seller, as well as praised by folks who have 5 and 7 series. In all of it's forms, it has been what BMW was all about. In comparison, that is why the Mercedes C-class is looked down upon by many, especially those of E and S class. Mercedes started out building large trucks and luxury cars, then moved on to fill a void with smaller cars. But that is not what they were all about. The 190E was an excellent car, and proved to be a solid DTM car, since then Mercedes has yet to offer an entry-level car that is worthy of the Mercedes badge, or carrying on where the 190E left off.

You've done your research. :)


Speaking of BMW, hail to the chief!

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/IMG_0627.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/IMG_0625.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/IMG_0631.jpg

(sorry about the blur, I was practically sprinting after this car)

hueterm
05-24-09, 01:17 PM
^^^ Of that, there is no doubt... Those are awesome, and the only thing that rivals the CL......

thebigjimsho
05-26-09, 03:26 PM
You've done your research. :)


Speaking of BMW, hail to the chief!

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/IMG_0627.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/IMG_0625.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/IMG_0631.jpg

(sorry about the blur, I was practically sprinting after this car)
:umno:


Towards the end of the run of 8 Series they were getting things right with the CSi. But for the most part, the 8 Series is not a BMW legend...

orconn
05-26-09, 05:04 PM
:umno:


Towards the end of the run of 8 Series they were getting things right with the CSi. But for the most part, the 8 Series is not a BMW legend...

I have some familiarity with the BMW 850 and I have to agree with the above statement. The 850 were very bland, both in appearance and performance. Not an objectionable car but nothing to make you want to rush out pay the purchase price, and after the warranty ran out, the maintenance cost. It was a car not for the connoisseur but the guy or girl that wanted to impress their friends with the size of their new income!

Night Wolf
05-26-09, 05:42 PM
You've done your research. :)


Speaking of BMW, hail to the chief!

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/IMG_0627.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/IMG_0625.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/IMG_0631.jpg

(sorry about the blur, I was practically sprinting after this car)

See, I'm not the anti-Mercedes guy that I was once made out to be ;)

8-series is darn nice. I don't care what it does, or does not represent, I like it. I don't know if I'd daily drive one, but if I wanted that type of car in the future as a classic or whatever, it'd probably be an 8-series.

Gristle Boy
05-27-09, 04:51 PM
And all this has exactly what to do with Pontiac?:hmm:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-27-09, 06:30 PM
I have some familiarity with the BMW 850 and I have to agree with the above statement. The 850 were very bland, both in appearance and performance.


One of my clients is an Import (mainly German) shop near Rochester MN, and the owner told me that between Mercedes' 6.0L (naturally aspirated) V12 and BMW's 5.4L V12, the Benz's V-12 is much simpler to work on, cheaper to own, and MUCH faster. I think the BMW V-12 makes 326hp and 361 lb/ft, whereas the Benz's "M100" V-12 makes 389hp and 420 lb/ft. :eek:

The 8 Series is nice, extremely exclusive and rare, but I can see how it's definitely not one of BMW's best...it was too big, luxurious and expensive...way far from a 2002ti, E30, M3 or whatever else you consider a pure BMW. Plus they only used slushboxes for many years, only going to the manual at the very end. But still, any high end luxury car company in the '90s needed a big luxury coupe as a showcase for their company, and the 8 Series was just that.

hueterm
05-27-09, 09:14 PM
And all this has exactly what to do with Pontiac?:hmm:

I haven't done anything to my GP in a week or so, so then we got onto:

1.) the tradition of personal luxury coupes;
2.) then why the BMW 1 and 3 are not said personal luxury coupes (although the new 3 coupe is getting close);
3.) then we moved onto one of the best (the 8)...

thebigjimsho
05-28-09, 01:56 AM
One of my clients is an Import (mainly German) shop near Rochester MN, and the owner told me that between Mercedes' 6.0L (naturally aspirated) V12 and BMW's 5.4L V12, the Benz's V-12 is much simpler to work on, cheaper to own, and MUCH faster. I think the BMW V-12 makes 326hp and 361 lb/ft, whereas the Benz's "M100" V-12 makes 389hp and 420 lb/ft. :eek:

The 8 Series is nice, extremely exclusive and rare, but I can see how it's definitely not one of BMW's best...it was too big, luxurious and expensive...way far from a 2002ti, E30, M3 or whatever else you consider a pure BMW. Plus they only used slushboxes for many years, only going to the manual at the very end. But still, any high end luxury car company in the '90s needed a big luxury coupe as a showcase for their company, and the 8 Series was just that.
Now you've gone and said 2002ti. Why did you say ti? Why?

hueterm
06-01-09, 04:42 PM
In honor of General (Obama) Motors, and the fact that we all got the "it's time to sacrifice" speech....I put up the ETC and dug out the GP -- that doesn't have A/C and gets only 8 MPG. (Also it doesn't have a catalytic converter, Al...) That's "sacrifice I can believe in" !

MauiV
07-22-09, 03:25 PM
Found some pics of my first car, a 75 Grand Prix. My Step-Dad bought it new and in 1989 when I turned 16 it became mine....

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/scan0002.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/scan0003.jpg

I would guess thee pics are from about 1989 or so, about the time I got the car. Not in bad shape for nearly 15 years old.

hueterm
07-22-09, 09:17 PM
Wow -- looks better than either the '77 that I had, or the '70, either one. Those were such awesome cars....