: what is the difference between the concourse and regular?



Mizugori
05-18-09, 12:17 PM
why does the concourse get 25 extra horsepower and torque? what is different about the engine?

Mizugori
05-18-09, 01:00 PM
why does the engine in a deville concourse get 25 extr horsepower and torque? what is different?

also, are they any more or less reliable, less likely to have head gasket issues, etc?

Submariner409
05-18-09, 01:11 PM
The VIN 9 powertrain uses a slightly different PCM program and intake cam overlap to develop higher horsepower further up in the power band at the expense of 5 ft/lb of torque. It uses a 3.71 final drive for quicker engine rpm rise in each gear range. Most specs list it as 300 hp/295 ft/lb.

The VIN Y powertrain is a more "economy" tune and cam setup which uses a 3.11 final drive for highway economy and reduced engine rpm at cruise. Most specs list it as 275 hp/300 ft/lb.

Discounting the tire rating speed limiters imposed, all things being equal, the VIN Y should outrun the VIN 9 in top speed, but above 135 mph factors like drag and weight come into play. It would be interesting to run two same-year same-style Northstar 4.6 FWD vehicles side by side at Bonneville. The ONLY physical differences being the drivetrain package. Which would eventually go faster, given no speed limiter in the PCM ?? Anybody's guess. Drag racing a FWD, same pair, is a guess also - on any Sunday a good driver in Car A will beat car B, and vice versa.

Submariner409
05-18-09, 01:17 PM
You just double-posted this up in Deville. :thepan:

brougham
05-18-09, 01:50 PM
It depends on what year you're talking about. If its a 1994 or 1995 its because it has a different engine.

Mizugori
05-18-09, 02:14 PM
i realized after i posted that it might be more appropriate in this category, sorry

Mizugori
05-18-09, 02:17 PM
what speed are cadillacs with the 4.6l northstar limited at? (I mean via a governor or similar device)

I'm not sure if it varies by model or something but I'm looking at 94-99 sevilles and eldorados, and 96-99 devilles

Submariner409
05-18-09, 03:24 PM
Depending on model and OEM tire installation, the speed limiter is determined by the tire speed rating on the sticker on the driver's door:

S = 112 mph
H = 130 mph
Z/W = 150 mph ++

You should look at your FWD car models in the 2000 - 2004 year range. Then you get all the powertrain updates and the roller cam follower engine.

carseller
05-18-09, 05:59 PM
Concours also has bucket seats with perforated leather, center console with shifter, analog gauges, Bose stereo, specific wheels, no hood ornament (it's in the grill), painted grill, mirrors in the roof for back seat, dual zone digital temp controls, road sensing suspension, magnasteer steering, fog lights.

ga_etc
05-18-09, 06:44 PM
The Deville Concourse, Seville STS, and Eldorado ETC got the higher output engines. 300 hp and 295 lb ft torque. These are higher priced models that got more standard equipment and the sportier versions. Not positive on the Concourse, but I know the STS and ETC got Stabilitrac and CVRSS and firmer suspension to make the cars handle better. The N* in the regular Deville, SLS, and Eldorado were 275 hp, 300 lb ft.

Talamant3z
05-18-09, 06:46 PM
whats added to them to et that extra 25hp?

ga_etc
05-18-09, 07:01 PM
Others on here have much more expertise on these cars than I do and can answer that in more detail. I think that it's higher compression ratio, slight computer tune, and freer flowing exhaust.

C0RSA1R
05-18-09, 07:08 PM
Different cam timing as well, from what I've read. But I'm a newbie with the N* as well, only engines I've ever worked on were the 3.3.L in my 89 Century and the 3.1L in my 97 Cutty Supreme.

Mizugori
05-18-09, 07:12 PM
I drove a 98 deville d'elegance yesterday and I didn't like the all digital display I dunno I just like to have RPMs and I just prefer the analog look, so I guess that's a benefit for me.

Ranger
05-18-09, 09:26 PM
whats added to them to et that extra 25hp?

Different intake cam. Nothing more. Of coarse it has a different trans and PCM, but only the cam is different on the engine.

P.S. I merged the threads.

ga_etc
05-19-09, 04:21 PM
I was wondering where all the extra commentary from you came from ranger lol. I'm still amazed how much you and some of the other guys on here know about these cars and engines. I'm usually the biggest car nut that all of my friends know but you guys put me to shame.

Submariner409
05-19-09, 07:03 PM
The Northstar compression ratios and exhaust systems are essentially identical in each model line.

VIN Y PCM management is set up for the different intake cam characteristics and the 3.11 final drive compared to the VIN 9.

With a single-cam engine you can fool with cam timing and accomplish basically two goals, with a variation on the theme in a 4-cam engine: advanced cam timings, about 4 degrees or so, move the power band down in the rpm range at the expense of HP but slightly increased torque. Retarded cam timings move the power band up higher in the rpm range with higher HP readings but slightly less torque. The 280 c.i. Northstar is a little engine, so there's a tightrope to be walked in the HP/RPM/torque search.