How do these two companies add up?

Lincoln Town Car vs Cadillac DTS
Lincoln Nothing vs Cadillac STS
Lincoln Navigator vs Cadillac Escalade (and family)
Lincoln Aviator vs Cadillac SRX
Lincoln LS8 vs Cadillac CTS
Lincoln Nothing vs Cadillac XLR

So how do the two add-up? Which is focusing more on a youthful market? Who has the advantage?

How do these two companies add up?

Lincoln Town Car vs Cadillac DTS
Lincoln LS8 vs Cadillac STS
Lincoln Navigator vs Cadillac Escalade (and family)
Lincoln Aviator vs Cadillac SRX
Lincoln Nothing vs Cadillac CTS
Lincoln Nothing vs Cadillac XLR

So how do the two add-up? Which is focusing more on a youthful market? Who has the advantage?

I would make these corrections;
Lincoln LS6 vs CTS
Lincoln Town Car vs nothing

My opinion is that until both brands have upgraded all their sedans to world class standards, then neither of them needs a $70,000 sports car to bring traffic into their show room.

By the way, has anyone ever went to a new car dealer just to look at the 'sports car' you couldn't afford and then spur of the moment purchased a family sedan before you left? I haven't either.

I wait until the LA Auto Show to view cars I can't afford. I also look at all the family cars only to realize they all suck. I leave the show wishing that I was living in Australia!

Why the Lincoln Town Car vs Nothing?

How do these two companies add up?

Lincoln Town Car vs Cadillac DTS
Lincoln Nothing vs Cadillac STS
Lincoln Navigator vs Cadillac Escalade (and family)
Lincoln Aviator vs Cadillac SRX
Lincoln LS8 vs Cadillac CTS
Lincoln Nothing vs Cadillac XLR

So how do the two add-up? Which is focusing more on a youthful market? Who has the advantage?
It should be this....
LS V6 vs. CTS
LS V8 vs. DTS
Town Car vs. STS
Navigator vs. Escalade
Aviator vs. SRX
Continental *do they even make this car anymore?* vs. nothing
nothing vs. XLR *I think Lincoln has no need to make a car like the XLR*

The thing with Lincoln is that its put in a weird position. Ford has bought Jaguar, so if Cadillac really goes upscale, the Jag is what ford will use to counter Caddy. So, Lincoln sorta finds itself without a mission. Ford is the "every car" and Mercury is the "step up" car while Lincoln had always been Ford's premier brand. Lincoln vs Buick? IMO, Lincoln is waaaaaaay above Buick. What now?

Why the Lincoln Town Car vs Nothing?

Big RWD car that can be converted into the longest limo you could ever require would be a start.

And how many black DTSs do you see at the airport picking up passengers?

For the average consumer, maybe they cross shop them, but doubtful. The Lincoln Town Car retained the 'classic' American car luxury styling. In my opinion, the DTS went with a generic design.

The DTS does have a better representation at the car rental counter though. Probably due to it's smaller size as compared to the Town Car.

Kat could add much more to this.

I recently test drove a Navigatr and an Escalde on the same day. My wife and I were both shocked at how many more features the navigator had.

Power folding rear seat, retractable running boards, cooled seats, great interior

The escalade interior sucked

The only thing that saves the escalade is the Engine, its not that much slower than my SLS, but the Navigator felt SUV slow. If someone is choosing between the 2, its probably a tough choice

I like Jags. IMO, for the past 30 years or so, the Jag has consistently been the best looking car on the road. I'm going to test drive one before I make my final decision on the Caddy this fall.

But I agree, the Town Car is not direct competition for the DTS or DHS. Lincoln runs ads where they compare their dimensions to the DeVille, but in the areas they win, it's only by 1/10th of an inch or something. Their only real advantage, IMO, is on the RWD thing.

The Apples to Apples comparison between Ford and GM luxury cars should be between the Town Car and the Park Avenue.

Cadillac abandoned the battle for "full-size" sedan supremacy when it discontinued the Fleetwood. The Deville is NOT a direct competitor for the Town Car except in the minds of Cadillac's marketing team.
The Deville CAN in fact be made into a limo that rivals anything that is currently supported by Lincoln although the long cars are still plagued by chassis flex. I did some work with Cadillac a couple years ago and at that time, they still had no solution to the issue.
Lincoln is using the LS to compete against both the CTS AND STS and is being fairly successful at it. Face it, the CTS and STS have a rather over-lapped market now and that's probably why the STS is going away. Let's just hope that when it comes back, it's significantly seperated from the CTS.

Lincoln LS V8 wins over the Caddy CTS in my mind.

Question: Are Lincolns more reliable or have better consumer ratings across the board?

My friends mom bought a 2003 Navigator fully loaded and had problems with the airbag suspension. She said it started going crazy on her one day and it was like a lowrider and the front one's would fill up then deflate and the rear one's would do the same. I remember hearing that Lincoln wa shaving a problem with the air suspension on the Navigator's as well but I may be wrong. The thing that sucks with the Lincoln's is that you have to turn off the air ride suspension when you put it up on a lift while the Caddy's you don't have too and a lot of people doon't know that with the Lincoln's which causes the air bag's to explode and then your spending a lot of money replacing them.

The Lincoln LS is cheered about in every car magazine on this planet and Mars. But, they also all agree that reliability does not exist...

When the CTS-v comes out, we can compare IT to the LS8, otherwise - not really...

I would take everything cadillac (and IMO I think that cadillac has a better product), except for the CTS over the LS..... I like the styling of the LS a little better......

The thing with Lincoln is that its put in a weird position. Ford has bought Jaguar, so if Cadillac really goes upscale, the Jag is what ford will use to counter Caddy. So, Lincoln sorta finds itself without a mission. Ford is the "every car" and Mercury is the "step up" car while Lincoln had always been Ford's premier brand. Lincoln vs Buick? IMO, Lincoln is waaaaaaay above Buick. What now?

I'd love to fix Ford. There is no market study needed.

I would position Jaguar as the higher end sporting refined european luxury vehicle. I would target the European makes. $35,000-$90,000.

I would position Lincoln as the American luxury muscle vehicle. I would target the Japanese and Cadillac. $25,000-$60,000

I would then position Aston Martin to take on Bentley, Rolls Royce and Maseratti. It would be exclusive luxury with heritage. $90,000+

Ford could then take Lincoln into Lexus IS300 territory and take Aston Martin up into Rolls Royce and Ferrari territory.

GM wouldn't be able to compete against Ford if all they have is Cadillac. You can't cover the 30,000-300,000 with the same brand. As nice as the Cadillac 16 concept was, and as cool as it could be, no way will very many people pay $150,000 for it. It'd have to be $75,000 tops.

And we haven't even used Volvo or Range Rover yet! So look out Hummer, Escalade and SRX.

But it won't happen. Ford will sell Volvo (all Volvos fault), Aston Martin will linger as a step child with no higher aspiration than Porsche (you could choose a lessor goal) and Range Rover won't supply military vehicles again (so where does the enginerring money come from?).

I would take everything cadillac (and IMO I think that cadillac has a better product), except for the CTS over the LS..... I like the styling of the LS a little better......

I liked the LS when it came out. Right idea and the right time. I still like it, although the CTS-V is all I'd settle for now.

I tried to get my parents to buy a LS. The dealer treated them like they were Ford customers. So they went to Lexus and leased a ES300. Whatever. At least they like it.

I asked my mom recently how she liked her car. After telling me how much she loved it, she told me she thought the style of the LS looked like an old car.

You know what? I have to agree. Sit the CTS and the LS next to each other, and the LS looks like it could have been made any year since 1985.

Interesting ideas about the Ford divisions, I would agree with MOST of what you said. And as far as the LS styling, I would agree that next to the CTS, it may look dated but to my eye still way better looking.
Actually, after reading everyone's take on the LS, I went out and test drove one. Matter of fact, I just got back. I test drove the LS and a Marauder back to back. I do like the LS but at close to $50K (equipped the way I would buy it), it's more than I would want to pay for it. Maybe that's why you see so many of the standard models with V6's running around, and so few of the "Premium Sport" editions w/V8. Bottom line, I think I like the Marauder but it does lack bottom end grunt and the usual comfort and convenience "gadgets" that I've become accustom to.
The real reason I had to mention this was that I saw the absolute WORST case of bastardizing I've ever seen in a new car by a dealer. Would you believe that they had a Marauder on the showroom floor with a landau vinyl top (with chrome trim) with big-ass brass badges on the sail panels that read "Mercury Grand Marquis Signature Edition". And as if that wasn't bad enough, they had installed those big wide chrome fender flair moldings too. I honestly felt sorry for the car. :helpless:

Actually, fixing Ford and GM isn't really that hard to do on paper. The necessary changes are quite logical. But, its getting the unions and the old guard to go along with these changes is the rub.



I liked the LS when it came out. Right idea and the right time. I still like it, although the CTS-V is all I'd settle for now.


I think Caddy's new wdge styling is too polarizing. Its either love it or hate it. The LS is more conservative and seems to have an easier time appealing to different markets.

I tried to get my parents to buy a LS. The dealer treated them like they were Ford customers. So they went to Lexus and leased a ES300.

And this is the rub that never seems to leave domestic car company's dealerships. I am also a member at a Corvette board and these people bitch and moan about their poor treatment by dealers when they drop $50k on a car. Many just keep going back and taking it. By contrast, I had a benz dealer bend over backwards for me when I looked at a CSport Coupe an I told him that I wasn't going to buy a car that day, that I was still in college and that I was still looking. We talked about an hour and he was goin to let me test drive any Benz on the lot except the AMG models. They were a class act all the way around - people and the building.

Toyota knows how to treat its customers too. When you drop that kind of money at a dealer, they need to treat you right. But, it seems there is just enough people to take the abuse and come back begging for more at domestic dealers. I guess they see no need to change. If Caddy wants to go upscale, they can change the car all they want, but if their dealers have Cavaliers parked next to Caddys and dealers treat Caddy customers like Cavalier customers, sales aren't really going to skyrocket.

I had a benz dealer bend over backwards for me when I looked at a CSport Coupe an I told him that I wasn't going to buy a car that day, that I was still in college and that I was still looking.

If you walk on a Porsche lot wearing shorts and a t-shirt, the sales guy will come straight out and greet you and treat you like a king.

If you walk on a domestic car lot, the sales guy will qualify you from behind his desk looking out the window and come to the conclusion that you can't afford his car.

You have to really want a domestic vehicle to put up with their crap.

You have to thank guys like KC that wrap themselves in the flag, stuff their heads in the sand, and keep "buying American" no matter what :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, its the american way!

I agree that the LS looks nicer than the CTS as well. It's all a matter of personal preference. But, I think the Lincoln LS has a very, very classy look to it. It may look a bit dated in some ways - but that's probably because the Mark VII was way ahead of its time back in '84...

It's too bad to hear about how domestic dealers treat people. This is one of the reasons why when you have a Lexus, BMW or Mercedes in your garage "you've made it"...

I started a Town car vs Fleetwood thread in the Cadillac Fleetwood section. Much of the stuff here is repaeted there.

Back when I was in HS I was working for the Jags/Ferra. dealership in town. There was this woman (about 67 yrs old) that came to the showroom to buy a car but none of the sales people would bother with her.I was working as a make-ready worker. I was walking by her going back to the work-shop when for the hell of it I asked her if I could help her out. I knew the sales peoples were being snobs but I figured even if you don't make a sale you at least take some time to help. Well she asked me if I could show her a XJS Convert. I grabbed the keys and started showing her the car. Right then she said she'd take the car. So I got one of the snobs(sales) to help her out. But she said she wanted me there while she was talking to the snob. When asked how she was gonna pay for the car, she reached into her purse and pulled out the biggest wad of $100 bills I ever seen. She paid cash for the car and demanded I get the commision.That made my summer as it was $7000 in cold hard cash :DThe salesman called me out of the office and said I needed to give him the comission seeing how he was the salesman.I said "sure right whatever" Then he said if I didn't I would get fired. I was making $4.75 an hour so I said "Go F*<& yourself " and quit. No way was I gonna make $7000 in 3 months and I was saving to buy a car.I told my boss the deal and he said he'd see to it that I'd get a paystub for the money.He said he would have done the same thing too. I still talk to the guy whenever I see him. The point I'm making is that its not so much the brand of car but rather the sales people that treat you like crap. What did I buy with the money? A 1985 Mustang GTand still had $3500 leftover to fix her up. Best memory of my teen yrs( well 2nd best memory :D)

[QUOTE=Katshot]Interesting ideas about the Ford divisions, I would agree with MOST of what you said. And as far as the LS styling, I would agree that next to the CTS, it may look dated but to my eye still way better looking.
Actually, after reading everyone's take on the LS, I went out and test drove one. Matter of fact, I just got back. I test drove the LS and a Marauder back to back. I do like the LS but at close to $50K (equipped the way I would buy it), it's more than I would want to pay for it. Maybe that's why you see so many of the standard models with V6's running around, and so few of the "Premium Sport" editions w/V8s

Katshot,
Have you taken a CTS for a test drive yet?

[QUOTE=Katshot]Interesting ideas about the Ford divisions, I would agree with MOST of what you said. And as far as the LS styling, I would agree that next to the CTS, it may look dated but to my eye still way better looking.
Actually, after reading everyone's take on the LS, I went out and test drove one. Matter of fact, I just got back. I test drove the LS and a Marauder back to back. I do like the LS but at close to $50K (equipped the way I would buy it), it's more than I would want to pay for it. Maybe that's why you see so many of the standard models with V6's running around, and so few of the "Premium Sport" editions w/V8s

Katshot,
Have you taken a CTS for a test drive yet?

No, actually I haven't. I have a freind that owns a Cadillac dealer right around the corner from where I work too. I just haven't been interested. I usually only bother with cars I'd actually want to own. There ARE a couple CTS's that have made me do a double-take but overall, I'm still not into the look.

http://www.cadillacpimpin.com/andris02.jpg

not bad. :eek:

Damn! can you get HBO and Cinemax with those dishes?

http://www.cadillacpimpin.com/andris02.jpg

not bad. :eek:

Perfect example of what NOT to do. I HATE WHEN GUYS GO TOO FAR WITH THE WHEELS. :banghead:

Perfect example of what NOT to do. I HATE WHEN GUYS GO TOO FAR WITH THE WHEELS. :banghead:

True the rims are kind of garish. But the white grill looks smooth.

It should be this....
LS V6 vs. CTS
LS V8 vs. DTS
Town Car vs. STS
Navigator vs. Escalade
Aviator vs. SRX
Continental *do they even make this car anymore?* vs. nothing
nothing vs. XLR *I think Lincoln has no need to make a car like the XLR*
Looks like you got confused with the STS and DTS. Cadillac has a different goal than Lincoln. Cadillac is trying to be the number one luxury car maker in the world. Lincoln is trying to get more sales. I like the looks of Lincoln's Town Car. Looks pretty snazzy. The big chrome grill and taillights look really nice. I haven't been posting much since I'm on vacation, and no internet.

I LOVE the Town Car in 1998+ style. I almost bought one a couple of years ago. Nice ride. I notice the new Devilles are very sporty compared to the more classy Town Car. IMO but the big Lincoln just doesn't have the same power as the DTS for example. The LS has been praised as the best balanced and best handling car in its class, and I would buy one in V8 trim with the chromed rims. Heck, they are even rear-drive for Katshot!!?? :eyebrow: Put the DTS engine in a new Town Car and it would be a great car, because 239 hp doesn't cut it for a 4000 lb. + car.

Well, the town car is basically set to appeal to old people... its a cruiser with a great ride, enough power to get by, and decent gas mileage..... If they sell what they want to, they have done a good job...

I would also like to see more power into the towncar (RWD+power= :eyebrow: )

Well then, I'm one old Dude who loves the Town Car styling even though I own my own "real" Cadillac. However, I don't care too much for the horse and buggy style rims on the new TC's, I like the style of rims from 1998.

Dont get me wrong, I like the styling of the town cars, and I wouldnt mind owning one!

Well then, I'm one old Dude who loves the Town Car styling even though I own my own "real" Cadillac. However, I don't care too much for the horse and buggy style rims on the new TC's, I like the style of rims from 1998.

Damn Ralph, you just can't get over that "real" Cadillac thing can you? Now you're bleeding it over into this thread. You can keep your FWD wannabe Cadillac, and your "organic" food. For me, I'll have my "classic" styled Cadillac and a big, fat, juicy steak ;)

Damn Ralph, you just can't get over that "real" Cadillac thing can you? Now you're bleeding it over into this thread. You can keep your FWD wannabe Cadillac, and your "organic" food. For me, I'll have my "classic" styled Cadillac and a big, fat, juicy steak ;)


Them's fighting words. he just implied that you are a vegetarian and don't like steak!! :rofl:

Classic, Classic times!!! Remember the "wes bashing thread", maybe we should resurrect it, except for Ralph!! :histeric:

Damn Ralph, you just can't get over that "real" Cadillac thing can you? Now you're bleeding it over into this thread. You can keep your FWD wannabe Cadillac, and your "organic" food. For me, I'll have my "classic" styled Cadillac and a big, fat, juicy steak ;)

Everyone is a "wannabe" in your mind, of which you are a legend in. When you insult me, it does not go unpunnished. Oh yeah, we'll see who lives longer. :helpless:

He will be safer in his big boat!!!

He will be safer in his big boat!!!

Most likely.

Everyone is a "wannabe" in your mind,

In his mind? Hardly. Canadians are wannabe Americans but just can't hack it.

:histeric: :rofl:

you guys crack me up. I love this forum!

In his mind? Hardly. Canadians are wannabe Americans but just can't hack it.

http://canada.com/national/story.asp?id=843A74E7-0324-47CB-A3C8-842B499D3A53

Peter Jennings takes up U.S. citizenship
After pondering the idea seriously for a decade -- and weathering a recent controversy in which his Canadian roots were an issue -- ABC News anchor Peter Jennings has become an American citizen.

Resistence is futile. You will be assimilated. bouncer:

So Peter Jennings wants to be an American now.

I don't think we should let him. I vote no.

Resistence is futile. You will be assimilated. bouncer:
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! LOL

Everyone is a "wannabe" in your mind, of which you are a legend in. When you insult me, it does not go unpunnished. Oh yeah, we'll see who lives longer. :helpless:

Not EVERYBODY, just FWD Caddy owners!! :D

Not EVERYBODY, just FWD Caddy owners!! :D

there's nothing wrong with front wheel drive owners. :farting:

there's nothing wrong with front wheel drive owners. :farting:

Didn't say there was. They're just driving FAKE Cadillacs ;)

[QUOTE=Katshot]Didn't say there was. They're just driving FAKE Cadillacs ;)[/QUOTE

Is anyone else witnessing this!? or is it just me!? Apparently everyone with a eldo, seville, or deville drives a fake Caddy!

I think he's baiting you.

This argument is getting old with me. One of my favorite Caddys of all time is the '79 Eldo. FWD with an Olds 350.

I think he's baiting you.

This argument is getting old with me. One of my favorite Caddys of all time is the '79 Eldo. FWD with an Olds 350.

Yeah I shouldn't have taken him seriously. Of course an obscure tweener fleetwood/caprice that gets 13 miles a gallon isn't that great of a model. :banghead2 :crybaby: :crying: :histeric:

Yeah I shouldn't have taken him seriously. Of course an obscure tweener fleetwood/caprice that gets 13 miles a gallon isn't that great of a model. :banghead2 :crybaby: :crying: :histeric:

HEY!!
She gets 21 on the highway thank-you ;)

I was just puttin' you guys on about the FWD cars being fake Caddys. But in all honesty, I DO think the FWD cars are not Cadillacs in truest sense. Kind of like the FWD Impala is not a TRUE Impala in my mind. That's not to say it can't be technically better in every possible way. I just don't think it's true to the name or the original intent of the model.

I'm not looking to get into the FWD vs. RWD dispute again. Most FWD owners will never quite understand where I'm coming from anyway. Technically, as long as it has a "factory applied Cadillac emblem on it, it's a Cadillac whether I like it or not.

HEY!!
She gets 21 on the highway thank-you ;)

I was just puttin' you guys on about the FWD cars being fake Caddys. But in all honesty, I DO think the FWD cars are not Cadillacs in truest sense. Kind of like the FWD Impala is not a TRUE Impala in my mind. That's not to say it can't be technically better in every possible way. I just don't think it's true to the name or the original intent of the model.

I'm not looking to get into the FWD vs. RWD dispute again. Most FWD owners will never quite understand where I'm coming from anyway. Technically, as long as it has a "factory applied Cadillac emblem on it, it's a Cadillac whether I like it or not.

Darn, I was trying to get you pissed by calling your car a caprice. Obviously you're in a good mood. Have a great weekend in Newtown. Do you do anything special to get that good mileage for such a big car?

If you drive a FWD car, its no biggie..... but when you drive a RWD car for a while, and then goto a FWD car, you wont want to go back (except maybe in the winter)>.....

Please, please, PLEASE let the RWD thing go. A Caddy is a Caddy no matter where the power goes, front or back.

I'm afraid Ralph left the forum over this mess.

And I'm afraid you're right......

If you drive a FWD car, its no biggie..... but when you drive a RWD car for a while, and then goto a FWD car, you wont want to go back (except maybe in the winter)>.....

I disagree with that. I used to drive a RWD car, then I went to driving my moms FWD car for awhile. Hate it, and still do. Good ol' RWD.

Darn, I was trying to get you pissed by calling your car a caprice. Obviously you're in a good mood. Have a great weekend in Newtown. Do you do anything special to get that good mileage for such a big car?

Actually I used to get better mileage before I did the 3.73 gears. These cars can get real good mileage for a big car. The LT1 powered Vettes got great mileage too.
Elvis,
Like I said, ALL cars sold by Cadillac are technically Cadillacs. That doesn't mean that they are all equal in the eyes of Cadillac enthusiasts though. Many car lines have models and years that were sold that have traditionally been looked at as down-right embarrasments to their lineage but they ARE still part of the family. Every car line has produced hits and misses.

Not EVERYBODY, just FWD Caddy owners!! :D
So that would make every Cadillac from 1968 to 2003 excluding the Cimmaron, Fleetwood, Catera, CTS, and Escalade a wannabe? Well at least I'm not one! :rofl:

Didn't say there was. They're just driving FAKE Cadillacs ;)
So the only Cadillac that aren't fake after 1968 are the Cimmaron, Catera, CTS, Fleetwood, and Escalade? Sounds like FWD is a Cadillac tradition.

So that would make every Cadillac from 1968 to 2003 excluding the Cimmaron, Fleetwood, Catera, CTS, and Escalade a wannabe? Well at least I'm not one! :rofl:

My cadillac is not a wannabe.

Your forgetting the DeVille. ;)

So the only Cadillac that aren't fake after 1968 are the Cimmaron, Catera, CTS, Fleetwood, and Escalade? Sounds like FWD is a Cadillac tradition.

Not that it really matters, but the Cimmaron is FWD. Until that car came out only the Eldorado was FWD. The Deville (Coupe De Ville and Sedan De Ville) and the first and second generation Seville were RWD.

So that would make every Cadillac from 1968 to 2003 excluding the Cimmaron, Fleetwood, Catera, CTS, and Escalade a wannabe? Well at least I'm not one! :rofl:

Don't even get me started on the Escalade :rolleyes:

If you drive a FWD car, its no biggie..... but when you drive a RWD car for a while, and then goto a FWD car, you wont want to go back (except maybe in the winter)>.....

I don't know about a New England Winter in Vermont, Maine, and Massachusetts with a rear wheel drive. I need front or AWD for it.

Not that it really matters, but the Cimmaron is FWD. Until that car came out only the Eldorado was FWD. The Deville (Coupe De Ville and Sedan De Ville) and the first and second generation Seville were RWD.
Oh. Well I'm still not a wannabe Cadillac owner! :nyanya: The Escalade is a Cadillac in every way except that its almost a foot off the ground. Its big, it eats gas like a hog who hasn't eaten in 10 days, its has that oldschool pushrod V8, and not a small one, it has the torque, its got the big flashy symbols, (and i mean BIG) Its got that soft and smooth ride, (though its not a boat)its got the rumble at idle to brag about, the quietness at cruise, and the rumble durring hard accelleration, to brag about, and, like every Cadillac, it has a supreme price for a supreme automobile!

Not that it really matters, but the Cimmaron is FWD. Until that car came out only the Eldorado was FWD. The Deville (Coupe De Ville and Sedan De Ville) and the first and second generation Seville were RWD.
Aww, thats sad. The only car to get the Caddy 500 with 400 hp was the 1970 Eldo. A FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CAR!!! What ashame.

:crying: :crying2:

Anything wearing a cadillac symbol from factory whether you like/accept it or not is a cadillac.


Why? Because cadillacs says so.
Anyways back on topic

Deville v. Town Car
Seville v. Continental
CTS v. LS
Escalade v. Navigator

Whether it drives on the wrong wheel or few inches off from each other
Anyways, Cadillac wins in performance and lincoln beats cadillac in comfort and space.

Anything wearing a cadillac symbol from factory whether you like/accept it or not is a cadillac.


Why? Because cadillacs says so.
Anyways back on topic

Deville v. Town Car
Seville v. Continental
CTS v. LS
Escalade v. Navigator

Whether it drives on the wrong wheel or few inches off from each other
Anyways, Cadillac wins in performance and lincoln beats cadillac in comfort and space.

And they just beat Cadillac in Customer Service Satisfaction. Matter of fact, they just managed to TIE LEXUS for the number 3 spot.
BTW, you don't even want to know how far down the list Chevy and GMC (the makers of your Escalade) are. ;)

Anything wearing a cadillac symbol from factory whether you like/accept it or not is a cadillac.


Why? Because cadillacs says so.
Anyways back on topic

Deville v. Town Car
Seville v. Continental
CTS v. LS
Escalade v. Navigator

Whether it drives on the wrong wheel or few inches off from each other
Anyways, Cadillac wins in performance and lincoln beats cadillac in comfort and space.
Yep, and thats the way its been for more than half a century.

And they just beat Cadillac in Customer Service Satisfaction. Matter of fact, they just managed to TIE LEXUS for the number 3 spot.
BTW, you don't even want to know how far down the list Chevy and GMC (the makers of your Escalade) are. ;)
Anyone know who was first....... Oh yeah thats right..... INFINITI was!!!!

Anyone know who was first....... Oh yeah thats right..... INFINITI was!!!!

Yeah, Infiniti dropped Saturn to #2 and surprised a lot of people in doing so. I think Lincoln tieing Lexus for #3 was an even bigger surprise though.

And they just beat Cadillac in Customer Service Satisfaction. Matter of fact, they just managed to TIE LEXUS for the number 3 spot.

Thats good for you, since they recently came in 20th on the JD Power initial quality survey, you'll probably be spending alot of time with that service dept :D Hell Mercury came in 6th maybe you should have got a mountaineer :bonkers:

btw, Cadillac was No. 2 :thumbsup:





Disclaimer: Actually, I dont put a lot of faith in these surveys, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway

Looks like Lincoln was actually tied for fourth


http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-07-23-dealer-service_x.htm

Anyone know who was first....... Oh yeah thats right..... INFINITI was!!!!That's because Nissan is the best car company in the world!!!! :worship:

Actually, Nissan was 31st in this category. Which just goes to show you how reliable these polls may or may not be

hey specv did you have a problem with your se-r's tranny? I heard that earlier models manual tranny are like shits.

The tranny isn't the problem as much as the shifter.
Cable shifters suck.

The tranny isn't the problem as much as the shifter.
Cable shifters suck.
What about this "Drive-by-wire" thing I been hearing about? Don't know if this has been around awhile but its pretty new to me.

Drive by wire refers to the replacement of "mechanical" steering linkage with motors and wires. In some cars, it also includes electronic throttle control as well.
It's really just a way to make it easier for the OEM to package vehicle controls.

yeah, what's throttle by wire?

in reviews of the '04 GTP they were saying that becuase it has that, even pulling into traffic will make the tires spin or something, what is it?

That drive by wire just sounds like one more thing to break and leave you stranded........

yeah, what's throttle by wire?

in reviews of the '04 GTP they were saying that becuase it has that, even pulling into traffic will make the tires spin or something, what is it?

The throttle cable is replaced by (basically) a potentiometer, a harness and a motor. You tended to lack any sense of "feel" in early systems but with the use of dampened switchgear, the OEM "simulates" system feel in both the steer by wire and throttle by wire systems.

Yep, new age cars are getting throttle by wire and steering by wire. The new mercedes are coming out with brake by wire. There's no mechanical connection between the brake pedal and the brakes. There is a sensor to tell how hard you're pushing on the brakes, and that's how much will be applyed to the brakes. Personally, I think it's a bad idea because we're depending on a wire to do the braking in a car. what if some numnuts doesn't know what he's doing and cuts the wire thinking it's to his stereo that's malfunctioning or some shit.

:rolleyes: more crap to go wrong, personally I like to feel the response of the brakes, steering and throttle through the input devices..... what is good about doing it this way? it seems like then the car is 5-10 years old, alot of this stuff will start to go bad.....

:rolleyes: more crap to go wrong, personally I like to feel the response of the brakes, steering and throttle through the input devices..... what is good about doing it this way? it seems like then the car is 5-10 years old, alot of this stuff will start to go bad.....

You're probably right. The systems are being replaced mainly for weight savings and flexibility in packaging of the systems in new car designs. Example: as it stands right now, engineers have to maintain space between the steering wheel and rack for the column and associated linkages. In a steer by wire application, all you have to do is run a small harness between the two components. And to be honest, at that point, the steering wheel can be replaced by something as little as a joy-stick.

I had the drive by wire in my 2500 Avalance, it was a death trap!!! At highway speeds if your foot is off the gas coasting, and you need to pull into another lane quickly, its not going to happen. My friend and I counted about a 1.5 second delay before the truck would even react to the throttle. I almost got hit because of that. When i told GM about this, i was told this is how the system works. and there was nothing wrong!!! :mad: I almost got into an accident because of this crappy system. I prefer the old linkage system myself, as least its reliable!
Frank

Back when I was in HS I was working for the Jags/Ferra. dealership in town. There was this woman (about 67 yrs old) that came to the showroom to buy a car but none of the sales people would bother with her.I was working as a make-ready worker. I was walking by her going back to the work-shop when for the hell of it I asked her if I could help her out. I knew the sales peoples were being snobs but I figured even if you don't make a sale you at least take some time to help. Well she asked me if I could show her a XJS Convert. I grabbed the keys and started showing her the car. Right then she said she'd take the car. So I got one of the snobs(sales) to help her out. But she said she wanted me there while she was talking to the snob. When asked how she was gonna pay for the car, she reached into her purse and pulled out the biggest wad of $100 bills I ever seen. She paid cash for the car and demanded I get the commision.That made my summer as it was $7000 in cold hard cash :DThe salesman called me out of the office and said I needed to give him the comission seeing how he was the salesman.I said "sure right whatever" Then he said if I didn't I would get fired. I was making $4.75 an hour so I said "Go F*<& yourself " and quit. No way was I gonna make $7000 in 3 months and I was saving to buy a car.I told my boss the deal and he said he'd see to it that I'd get a paystub for the money.He said he would have done the same thing too. I still talk to the guy whenever I see him. The point I'm making is that its not so much the brand of car but rather the sales people that treat you like crap. What did I buy with the money? A 1985 Mustang GTand still had $3500 leftover to fix her up. Best memory of my teen yrs( well 2nd best memory :D)


You can't pay in cash for any transaction over $10k. Tax laws say so.

Well, it's seemingly oficial, just saw an interview in the Speed Channel with the head of Ford Mo Co. Marketing in North America....


Tier 1 = Jaguar = Cadillac = Lexus = BMW = MB = Infiniti = Audi


Tier 2 = Lincoln = Acura = Buick = Chrysler



This is historic folks!!!