: legal question



OffThaHorseCEO
05-15-09, 10:03 AM
A police officer cuffs you. He tells you you are not under arrest, he says you are being "detained". You have a flight to catch. Again you are not under arrest.You have not commited any crimes. What are your rights when it comes to asking to leave? How long can you legally be "detained" without being under arrest?

Ranger
05-15-09, 10:08 AM
I suspect you have very little rights. You are at their mercy.

VforMe
05-15-09, 10:18 AM
I think they can detain you for 24hrs for "investigation" But I think I heard that on Law & Order so I would be on the phone with an attorney.

V-Eight
05-15-09, 12:22 PM
I think its either 24 or 48 hours

gary88
05-15-09, 01:33 PM
Did he have any probable cause to "detain" you? If not, he's violating your fourth amendment rights. Sounds a little strange, like he was trying to avoid reading your Miranda rights since it "wasn't an arrest".

dkozloski
05-15-09, 01:50 PM
The officer can cuff you for his protection while he tosses your car looking for the guns, drugs, and bombs and checking for warrants. If you don't give him permission to toss your car, he can make you wait while they bring in a drug sniffing dog from Podunk and then toss your car after the dog hits on your stash. If you're in cuffs, you gave him reason to suspect that you're a bad actor and likely to lose control of yourself. It's probably all on his dash cam and the more noise you made, the worse it's going to look to the judge. Judges give an awful lot of leeway to a cop trying to do his job especially if the guy he stopped is acting like an erratic horse's ass and mouthing off.

iowasevillests
05-15-09, 03:15 PM
Pretty sure they're required to charge you within 24 hours or they're required to release you. Aside from that they need probable cause to search your possessions without permission, with permission its all free game for them. Curious if this is a theoretical question......

EcSTSatic
05-15-09, 04:41 PM
I would think a decent law enforcement officer would explain his actions given the circumstances. Did you tell him you had a plane to catch? Surely you had a plane ticket with you, otherwise you probably sounded like another suspect trying to get away. Why were you pulled over to begin with? The story is a bit one-sided.

AMGoff
05-15-09, 07:05 PM
Unless they're going to arrest you... They can't hold you, period.

Either way, I'd say nothing and be on the phone with my attorney asap.

dkozloski
05-17-09, 11:08 PM
A reasonable detention is about twenty minutes for a pat down search for the officer's protection and to find out what is going on. If you resist either a detention or arrest the officer can use force on you. He is going to win the scuffle.

VforMe
05-18-09, 08:54 PM
OffThaHorseCEO
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I guess they must have decided to keep him....

Ranger
05-18-09, 10:05 PM
Oh Oh! This should be a good story.

Caddy Man
05-18-09, 10:51 PM
A reasonable detainment is about 20 minutes. This is when it is based on reasonable suspicion a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed. Within those 20 minutes an officer needs to find probable cause to make an arrest or let you go.

As far as Miranda rights go, officer's don't typically read them upon an arrest. That's stuff you see on COPS. They are read when being interrogated or questioned after an arrest.

C0RSA1R
05-19-09, 12:47 AM
The officer must have a reason to detain you. If he refuses to give you one, he cannot legally detain you at all. If you ask a police officer, "Am I being charged with anything?" and he says "No.", then you are legally free to leave. That stuff on TV where they 'haul someone in for questioning' is bogus. They can do that if they formally charge you, or if you have a warrant. Joe Schmo cannot be 'hauled in' legally if those conditions are not met. Furthermore, if, during a traffic stop, you have stepped out of your car and refused to consent to a search, and the officer wants you to stay at the side of the road, he must have a reason. If you are not receiving a ticket, it is illegal for them to detain you.

I have done this twice before. Cop caught me speeding, had me dead to rights. I refused search, refused to state how fast I was going, and played it dumb. The officer got a little huffy, but after I asked in a formal tone if he was arresting me for anything, he walked to his car, wrote the ticket, and handed it to me. The end. The second time the officer thought he smelled marijuana (back in high school). He probably did. He asked if I had been smoking anything, and I told him I was smoking a cigarette earlier. He made some unconvincing threats about forcing a search of my car, told me that lying would make my situation worse, and I repeated my position that he was not given consent to search, and asked if I was being detained. He gave me a warning (stopped for having, of all things, fuzzy dice on my mirror, 'obstructing my view') and drove away.

I have an uncle that's been a lawyer now for about two decades. I learned a lot from him in terms of what your rights are in the US, and exactly how much crap cops are legally allowed to give you. All of this is true - I do not tolerate having my rights violated, and there have been many cases in the Town of Colonie (where I went to school) of kids getting off on marijuana possession because of improper searches of vehicles. I actively seek information on what my rights and responsibilities are. A good web page to go to for more information is Flex Your Rights.org (http://www.flexyourrights.org/). My first encounter with the cops (the speeding one), actually is a close parallel to one of the situations found in the videos on that website - though I did not have illicit drugs on me, I did have a load of fireworks (illegal in NY) in my trunk, about $70 worth. I refuse to put up with crap from the police - if they want to arrest me for something, they're going to have to catch me red-handed or work for the money that I'm paying them. I have no problem with cops in principle - but my freedom is my freedom.

I was arrested once in college for a violation, "possession of an unlawful substance". Traffic-ticket level offense; they caught my friends and I with a recently-used marijuana pipe that had residue inside. The officers (not campus police, they were town cops) read us our Miranda rights about a minute after all three of us were cuffed.

dkozloski
05-19-09, 01:04 AM
The officer must have a reason to detain you. If he refuses to give you one, he cannot legally detain you at all. If you ask a police officer, "Am I being charged with anything?" and he says "No.", then you are legally free to leave. That stuff on TV where they 'haul someone in for questioning' is bogus. They can do that if they formally charge you, or if you have a warrant. Joe Schmo cannot be 'hauled in' legally if those conditions are not met. Furthermore, if, during a traffic stop, you have stepped out of your car and refused to consent to a search, and the officer wants you to stay at the side of the road, he must have a reason. If you are not receiving a ticket, it is illegal for them to detain you.

I have done this twice before. Cop caught me speeding, had me dead to rights. I refused search, refused to state how fast I was going, and played it dumb. The officer got a little huffy, but after I asked in a formal tone if he was arresting me for anything, he walked to his car, wrote the ticket, and handed it to me. The end. The second time the officer thought he smelled marijuana (back in high school). He probably did. He asked if I had been smoking anything, and I told him I was smoking a cigarette earlier. He made some unconvincing threats about forcing a search of my car, told me that lying would make my situation worse, and I repeated my position that he was not given consent to search, and asked if I was being detained. He gave me a warning (stopped for having, of all things, fuzzy dice on my mirror, 'obstructing my view') and drove away.

I have an uncle that's been a lawyer now for about two decades. I learned a lot from him in terms of what your rights are in the US, and exactly how much crap cops are legally allowed to give you. All of this is true - I do not tolerate having my rights violated, and there have been many cases in the Town of Colonie (where I went to school) of kids getting off on marijuana possession because of improper searches of vehicles. I actively seek information on what my rights and responsibilities are. A good web page to go to for more information is Flex Your Rights.org (http://www.flexyourrights.org/). My first encounter with the cops (the speeding one), actually is a close parallel to one of the situations found in the videos on that website - though I did not have illicit drugs on me, I did have a load of fireworks (illegal in NY) in my trunk, about $70 worth. I refuse to put up with crap from the police - if they want to arrest me for something, they're going to have to catch me red-handed or work for the money that I'm paying them. I have no problem with cops in principle - but my freedom is my freedom.

I was arrested once in college for a violation, "possession of an unlawful substance". Traffic-ticket level offense; they caught my friends and I with a recently-used marijuana pipe that had residue inside. The officers (not campus police, they were town cops) read us our Miranda rights about a minute after all three of us were cuffed.
It also depends on how the game is played in your local jurisdiction. Different states have different laws. If the officer tells you to stand with your hands on the trunk lid and you decide to walk away you might find yourself face down in the mud being cuffed up. The officer is allowed to do what is reasonable to protect you and himself.

C0RSA1R
05-19-09, 12:31 PM
That's true. You can't just go off half-cocked in that situation. The key, as I understand it, is to have a dialogue with the officer and make your preferences known, then ask him repeatedly what you are being detained for and request permission to leave. That's not necessarily suspicious behavior - nobody likes being held up by the cops, innocent or guilty.