: Just a burden in my hand...



Jesda
05-14-09, 07:11 PM
I love Soundgarden. :)


Ian needs help buying a car. He's down to two. Both would be about $4000.


One is a 1995 Deville 4.9, one-owner North Carolina car with 79k.
-Well maintained with routinely changed fluids. The Deville received thorough dealer service and has the dealer records to prove it.
-The dealership where it was routinely serviced even treated the leather with mink oil.
-One-owner car purchased and serviced at Cadillac dealer.
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2009/5/5/262/038/11487762421.262038568.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.j pg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2009/5/5/262/038/11487762428.262038568.IM1.08.565x421_A.562x421.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2009/5/5/262/038/11488990427.262038568.IM1.09.565x421_A.562x421.jpg


The other is a 1995 supercharged Buick Riviera in Tampa with 105k.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3269562
Click link for big pics.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/3079/1241/32695620012_medium.jpg

-Well maintained with routinely changed fluids, complete service records.
-Upgraded aftermarket audio.
-Wheels
-Possibly spent some time up north, a bad thing.

ryannel2003
05-14-09, 07:16 PM
If it were me, I'd take the Deville. It looks absolutely pristine; however, it looks like something my 75 year old aunt would drive, while the Riviera is more "youthful" (I say that in comparison to the Deville). Where in NC is that Deville? That neighborhood looks familiar, but then again all of them look the same.

Playdrv4me
05-14-09, 07:20 PM
There's a chance I *might* be able to negotiate the Riv guy down to 3500 (I negotiated the Deville down from 4500, which had been reduced from 4900), but even with that difference I still love the APPARENT condition of the Deville.

I'm a condition whore. The Riv is AWFULLY nice too though and VERY tastefully modified.

gdwriter
05-14-09, 07:40 PM
That DeVille looks spotless. I say buy both and sell one of the them to Chad. :histeric:

Playdrv4me
05-14-09, 07:44 PM
That DeVille looks spotless. I say buy both and sell one of the them to Chad. :histeric:

Post of the day.

Jesda
05-14-09, 08:24 PM
That DeVille looks spotless. I say buy both and sell one of the them to Chad. :histeric:

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just don't tell Chad he gets to pick one. :)

Night Wolf
05-14-09, 09:00 PM
Personally I'd avoid a '95 (and '96) Riv. The Series 1.5 s/c 3800 is tricky as it uses a whole computer system specific to those years, plus the car as a whole had quirks to it. At this point in age/miles I'd say it wouldn't be as big of a deal reliability wise, but I'd avoid it.

That DeVille OTOH.... wow. It just needs some Concourse fender skirts fitted with the base DeVille trim and that would be one sweet ride.

Gristle Boy
05-14-09, 09:08 PM
I leased a Riv brand new in '95 & it was great. Drove it for 3 years & never had a single problem with it. fwiw

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-14-09, 09:49 PM
DeVille. I'd never buy a '95 Riviera, no matter how clean it was. They had a lot of teething problems with those (and the Auroras) for the first few years. When I look at Rivieras near me, I narrow the search between '97 and '99. That DeVille is a much cleaner, better taken care of car. The DeVille is a one owner car with full service records. That sells it's self. The Riviera was modified with more modern wheels (ugly and cheap IMO) and the stereo was modified. To me that says someone younger owned it and didn't spend all the money on repairs/maintenance, but more "go fast/look good stuff", which is less important than the essential repair/maintenance.

Like Rick said, all that DeVille needs is the Concours' fender skirt extensions and a different set of OEM Wheels. Those base wheels never did anything for me on those 94-95 DeVilles. Either of the optional designs would look great.

Ian, come join us in the 4.9 deVille club. Besides, if you don't like it you'll only have it for what, two weeks? :lol:

Eric Kahn
05-14-09, 09:56 PM
Why could I not find that 95 deville when I was looking, loads better than mine, I want it ;)

CTSV_510
05-14-09, 11:00 PM
Chris Cornell FTW.

orconn
05-14-09, 11:14 PM
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just don't tell Chad he gets to pick one. :)

Your insight into the situation is brilliant!

77CDV
05-14-09, 11:21 PM
Deville FTW

AMGoff
05-14-09, 11:28 PM
Ian.. Have you ever had either? If so, then pick the other... While I'd definitely do a search to see if there are any others in better condition around the same price, out of those two I'd personally pick the Riviera... I've always had a soft spot for them of any generation - particularly the first and last.

If it's in nice condition and been well maintained, I'd have no aversion to picking up a '95-'96 model... I always get a slight chuckle whenever someone mentions avoiding a car due to things like "teething problems" (sorry Chad)... I mean, it's a 15 year old car for Christ's sake - any such problems will have been worked out by now through years of recalls, replacements, and repairs... Else the car probably wouldn't still be on the road.

But with all that aside... For 3500 bucks, you'll certainly be able to beat the snot of out it for another year or two... Especially if it's lasted 15 years and 105K miles already.

In the words of De Niro... "Do it.. Do it."

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-15-09, 12:02 AM
Teething problems would have probably been fixed by now, but they still have a lot more reoccurring problems than a later year model. Plus, it's only a Series I S/C 3800, which doesn't make the power of the Series II. Granted, it makes more power than that 4.9, but if you're like me at all, you want the most powerful version available (aside from the Mercedes lol )

Playdrv4me
05-15-09, 01:22 AM
Chad, the car was NOT owned by a kid. The guy is actually a surprisingly older gentleman to whom the Riv was his pride and joy. He has ALL of the service records for THAT car supposedly too, changed the Trans fluid at 56 and 95k supposedly, put those Enkei wheels and falken tires on it, upgraded the spark plug wires and on and on and on. The stereo equipment was TASTEFULLY replaced with quality components, not VR3 or WalMart garbage. Come on Chad, you know me better than to just buy some crap, or at least TRY not to.

Even when my budget was 2k I found the most healthy Seville I could and ACTUALLY found one with fixed H/Gs even though it wasn't the prettiest!

In any case, I thank you all for your opinions and have tentatively decided on the Deville. While the fun side of me would love to have the Riv (AND THE SOUND SYSTEM he put in it, Im a music freak) the thing Rick said about the Series 1.5 having very unique electronics scared me a bit and I really do love the way the Deville looks. Unfortunately Adam, I've NEVER had either a Deville or a Riviera so I wasn't able to choose the opposite lol. We'll see how it goes.

Agree 100 percent about the Deville wheels.

Aron9000
05-15-09, 01:29 AM
I would've chosen the Deville as well. Now if the Riveria was a 97-99 with the Series II supercharged V6, well it would've been a no brainer. Cars with that motor are a pulley swap away from being a low 14 second tire fryer.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
05-15-09, 01:43 AM
DeVille FTW. The ride is far superior to any Riviera and it is way more comfortable. You will also be surprised by how much oomph it has. You will be very pleased with it. My '95 was the best car I have ever been in.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-15-09, 08:12 AM
You made a good (and quick) decision! You'll be happy with it!

Night Wolf
05-15-09, 08:09 PM
Maybe it is just me, but I wouldn't call simply swapping wheels "modifying" a car... I mean, it's just wheels.

Same with the sound system. Does putting $1,000 into a sound system add $1,000 to the car? No, it really dosen't add much value. But I'd still be hard pressed to call the car "modified" because someone put a different head unit or subs in. While I understand the mods/maintenance ratio may be true for a 16-y/o... I really don't see any substance behind the comment that a "modified" car has a greater chance of not being maintained.

Series 1.5 s/c 3800 is actually a Series I engine with a Series II s/c and a very unique computer/electronics system. *personally* I'd avoid one, but like I and others mentioned, if it made it this far, then chances are it's fine. Kinda like an HT4100, say what you will but if its still around now, then there is a good chance it'll be around for a while longer.

The worst part about the base '94-'96 DeVilles were the missing fender skirts giving it a very uncompleted look. It is not a direct swap, but you'd have to get fender skirts from a concourse, get them painted if a different color, then the door trim from a base model and cut it to fit, then apply it to the fender skirt. Makes the whole car look much better though.

As for wheels.... Mike has the right idea. This is Stoney's '94 DeVille before he added the concourse skirts:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachments/southeast/17419d1139109915-tampa-mall-rats-06-pdr_1114.jpg

17" newer DeVille "turbine" wheels.

It's interesting what a new, or upgraded from base model set of wheels can do to change a cars look.... window tint also has a similar effect.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-deville-1985-2005-including-1985/16859d1137565623-so-coupe-before-pdr_1009.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1471/2781/3676390042_large.jpg

^That was 4-6 weeks after I got my drivers license.... Got my first speeding ticket in that car 3 days after I got my license. Gah.... now I'm thinking about that car again.... something I haven't done in a while. Man there was alot of memories made with it

Actually, all this talk about 90's Cadillacs has gotten me thinking about them again. I've always really like the 1995 Eldorado ETC, in fact it was that very car I even thought about replacing my Coupe with in the past when I owned it, before I decided not to part with it. There is just some unexplainable charm to me in the 90's Cadillac tear-drop dash. Maybe still a posibility in the future.

Alright, /threadjack.

Playdrv4me
05-15-09, 09:06 PM
I find the rest of the '94-'96 just fine, what I dont like about them is the dopey looking geezer front end. The 97 and 98 filled the front end in much more nicely.

In any case I have to retract my previous statement. Guy with the Riviera came down to 3600, so I'm going to go look at the car tomorrow. He said he has a check engine light that comes and goes every so often, but has had it scaned numerous times and nothing ever comes up. Jesda suspects it is EGR. I am not so sure, in any case with all the cool stuff he's done to the car it merits a look. Rescheduled my one way car rental to NC until tomorrow.

77CDV
05-15-09, 09:29 PM
Oooh, possible electrical gremlins! Could be an EGR valve, could be.....? Run, Simba, run far, far away.....

Night Wolf
05-15-09, 09:34 PM
I find the rest of the '94-'96 just fine, what I dont like about them is the dopey looking geezer front end. The 97 and 98 filled the front end in much more nicely.


Heh, I find it the opposite, and actually perfer the '94-'96 front end. Plus it has the raised fenders, which are cool.

Although I will say the billit grille that Stoney put on his (with the C-A-D-I-L-L-A-C script from the back of a Catera) really changed up the look of the car, I don't know if they still make it tho.

Jesda
05-15-09, 09:45 PM
I think that Deville is ugly. Its a dumpy design that lacks emotion. The body is clearly too fat for the wheelbase with a nasty front overhang that just doesn't fit. Early 90s Devilles were leaner and Fleetwood Broughams, being RWD, had short front overhangs and a swept back look.

My next Cadillac will be a 4.9L Deville. Its quickly becoming a desired and slightly collectible car.

Rodya234
05-15-09, 10:01 PM
I think that Deville is ugly. Its a dumpy design that lacks emotion. The body is clearly too fat for the wheelbase with a nasty front overhang that just doesn't fit. Early 90s Devilles were leaner and Fleetwood Broughams, being RWD, had short front overhangs and a swept back look.

My next Cadillac will be a 4.9L Deville. Its quickly becoming a desired and slightly collectible car.

I'll never stop saying that the C-body 4.9L Deville was the best Deville there ever was. Considering how much they cost now, and what they still offer after 18-15 years, its almost foolish not to have one. :thumbsup:

AMGoff
05-15-09, 10:50 PM
I'll never stop saying that the C-body 4.9L Deville was the best Deville there ever was. Considering how much they cost now, and what they still offer after 18-15 years, its almost foolish not to have one. :thumbsup:

Then it's awfully convenient that you just so happen to have one... :rolleyes:

Rodya234
05-15-09, 11:20 PM
One? try five. LOL :histeric:

gdwriter
05-15-09, 11:28 PM
I'll never stop saying that the C-body 4.9L Deville was the best Deville there ever was. Considering how much they cost now, and what they still offer after 18-15 years, its almost foolish not to have one. :thumbsup:They are definitely durable, as my 257,000-mile '91 DeVille demonstrates. And I still see lots of them on the road.

ryannel2003
05-15-09, 11:29 PM
Compared to what was offered in the 50's and 60's, no recent Deville has ever been more stylish than what was offered in that era. There were what, 8 or 9 generations of Deville? Alot to choose from, though I have never liked the '94-'99 Deville; they are unattractive. The 2000 redesign was so much cleaner and more elegant.

As for Seville, it's a tie between 4th and 5th Gen overall. I'm personally a fan of 5th Gen design and 4th Gen simplicity. I find myself liking the '92-'97 STS more and more all the time.

/threadjack

orconn
05-16-09, 12:16 AM
Compared to what was offered in the 50's and 60's, no recent Deville has ever been more stylish than what was offered in that era. There were what, 8 or 9 generations of Deville? Alot to choose from, though I have never liked the '94-'99 Deville; they are unattractive. The 2000 redesign was so much cleaner and more elegant.

As for Seville, it's a tie between 4th and 5th Gen overall. I'm personally a fan of 5th Gen design and 4th Gen simplicity. I find myself liking the '92-'97 STS more and more all the time.

/threadjack

The 6th generation Seville has a nice clean design, but doesn't have the elegance or presence of the 5th generation Seville. As I own both series Sevilles and use each of them frequently I have to say the 6th version handles better, but also comes across a cheaper version of the 5th series, a cluttered too many seamed interior design that just doesn't have clean, simple elegance of the 5 series interior.

Playdrv4me
05-16-09, 12:37 AM
The 6th generation Seville has a nice clean design, but doesn't have the elegance or presence of the 5th generation Seville. As I own both series Sevilles and use each of them frequently I have to say the 6th version handles better, but also comes across a cheaper version of the 5th series, a cluttered too many seamed interior design that just doesn't have clean, simple elegance of the 5 series interior.

Likewise the '94-'96 Deville interior puts the '00+ to shame. Gaps and seams wide enough to stick your finger through versus such a clean and warm yet at once semi-industrial design (long uninterrupted lines and big flat surfaces) in the 1994-96 models. Even the '97-'99 deviated a litle too much from the simple elegance of the '94-'96.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-16-09, 09:47 AM
I always liked the 94-96 interior. It was clean, elegant and warm. I loved how they put those thick strips of (faux) wood trim in, and those nice soft, horizontally pleated seats were very comfortable. The interior IMO looked much more modern than the 91-93's, but the car it's self looked frumpier and more "Jonah the whale". Like the Roadmaster and Fleetwood from that same era, it tried to look more aerodynamic and slicked back, but it wasn't able to pull it off as well..due to it's shorter length and fat rear fenders. It seems that the rear fenders, when looked at in profile, were as tall as the fenders on the Fleetwoods, but they were a bit longer, which made it proportionally look better.

hueterm
05-16-09, 01:17 PM
If the wood in the 94-96 is faux, then real isn't necessary...

orconn
05-16-09, 03:15 PM
If the wood in the 94-96 is faux, then real isn't necessary... The wood trim in these cadillacs was not "faux" as described previously but real wood veneerer a plastic substrate. While Cadillac in the past used faux wood plastic embellishments this was not the case with the last two series Sevilles.

This real wood veneer technique was developed in Europe, primarily for the British market which demanded wood embellishment. Prior to the development of this veneer process real wood veneer as used in cars (Jaguar, Rover, Rolls and Mercedes) was very prone to "checking" and within a few years delamination which required quite costly repair to keep it looking presentable. This was particularly true in California where the sun deteriorated "real:" wood veneered trim in short order. I know having owned several Jaguar sedans and taken care of my parents '56 Mercedes 300D sedan!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-16-09, 06:06 PM
I could have sworn that Cadillac lists the 94-96 Sedan deVilles as having a "wood tone trim", whereas the Concours got the genuine Zebrano wood.

orconn
05-16-09, 07:26 PM
I could have sworn that Cadillac lists the 94-96 Sedan deVilles as having a "wood tone trim", whereas the Concours got the genuine Zebrano wood.

You may be right I was referring to the Zebrano wood in the Sevilles. My mistake!

Ranger
05-16-09, 08:09 PM
How can you tell. I was told my '02 SLS and my '03 DHS had real Zebrano wood. Looks like plastic to me.

hueterm
05-18-09, 10:55 PM
The Concours is supposed to have the Zebrano, and it looks like it has it on the dash and the doors. (And I've always thought it was gorgeous.)

However, the ETC looks like it has it on the dash, but the door trim stripe looks like plastic to me.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-19-09, 07:21 PM
Ian, how's the DeVille?

Playdrv4me
05-20-09, 12:05 AM
Didn't end up getting it. When I got there the car was nice, and by no means would I consider it mis-advertised, but it wasn't as perfect as I was expecting. With the median age of the people who own those cars, finding a mint one actually shouldn't be difficult, and this one wasn't quite as "mint" as I wanted. While it drove straight, had a clean underbody and no smoke, odors or any other mechanical issues, I did find a repainted hood and possibly right fender. Also the leather wasn't AS clean as it looks in the pics.