: hey audio junkies....



nmaier2201
05-10-09, 12:50 AM
So I farted around the FAQ and did some keyword searches.... can't find the Ohm rating for our V Bose system.

Just for fun I was thinking of swapping out my stock speakers for some Rockford fosgate units… here is what I was thinking. Anyone know the Ohms of the factory Bose system? maybe even the RMS/Peak of factory speakers?

Front Doors

RF P163 – 6.5” 2-50 Watt RMS 100W peak
- 4 Ohms

Rear Doors

RF 152C – 5.25” 2-40 Watt RMS 80W peak
- 4Ohms

Rear Deck
2x RF Punch HE 6.5” low frequency sub
- 4Ohms

The sub…. I have not decided on yet… does anyone know the factory specs on it? How much RMS/Reak power and what Ohms it runs at? That would help me picking out the right amp and corresponding speaker.

No I'm not a gang banger, and no I don't disgrace us all blasting 2Pac w/ the windows down.... I just like loud music w/ the windows rolled UP! :bonkers:

heavymetals
05-10-09, 01:26 AM
I replaced my sub with an Infinity 1040w and a Baja amplifier.

Just wired the original sub out to the amp input.

Mucho better.

mpunklil
05-10-09, 03:22 AM
subscribing, i would like to know the specs as well :) the stock sub leaves a bit to be desired

VforMe
05-10-09, 08:22 AM
Front Doors

RF P163 – 6.5” 2-50 Watt RMS 100W peak
- 4 Ohms

Rear Doors

RF 152C – 5.25” 2-40 Watt RMS 80W peak
- 4Ohms

Rear Deck
2x RF Punch HE 6.5” low frequency sub
- 4Ohms



I'm not sure about why you would be using a 6.5" sub in a 10" hole? But if you're going to replace the speakers I would get an amp to power all the speakers. Bose is notorious for "tuning" their systems to sound good with the cheap ass speakers they use. So you may end up with something that doesn't sound as good as the factory, although it would no doubt be louder. The factory sub blows though. I put in a JL 10W6 with a fosgate 300 amp and it sounds much better. I would like to replace all the speakers but I think you would need a new head unit and amps to do it right and that's just more work than I want to do.

Knuguy
05-10-09, 11:23 AM
You can keep the Factory Head unit, you need a JL Audio CleanSweep or RF 360 or something of the like. These units take the high level (speaker level) audio signal and convert to a low level (RCA) output so you can amplify the signal. The CleanSweep and 360 also can remove any equalization added by Bose or the like from the signal through a setup test.

Not sure what the ohm of the factory sub is, but Bose usually uses an odd impedance. If it were 4 ohm it would be easy to swap and Bose is not known to be that easy of a conversion. Unplug the sub connector and measure with a multimeter. make sure the speaker is at rest because the impedance changes as you move the cone.

nmaier2201
05-10-09, 05:33 PM
VForMe. The 6.5" subs I was talking about were to replace the factory 6.5" speakers... not the 8" Bose sub... so I'd have three subs in the back...

Thx for the Sub/Amp suggestions for the 8" sub in the back... looks like it's pretty easy to squeeze a 10" in there.

Also the 360 or cleansweep is a good idea. Pricey... so I was going to see what the high level signal sounded like before I tried it... the FAQ has a good cleansweep write up... that was a good read.

Thanks guys.. I think I'll try the multimeter to check the ohms... I'm not sure why I didn't think of that!!!

VforMe
05-10-09, 06:45 PM
VForMe. The 6.5" subs I was talking about were to replace the factory 6.5" speakers... not the 8" Bose sub... so I'd have three subs in the back...

Thx for the Sub/Amp suggestions for the 8" sub in the back... looks like it's pretty easy to squeeze a 10" in there.

Also the 360 or cleansweep is a good idea. Pricey... so I was going to see what the high level signal sounded like before I tried it... the FAQ has a good cleansweep write up... that was a good read.

Thanks guys.. I think I'll try the multimeter to check the ohms... I'm not sure why I didn't think of that!!!

I'm confused....are there speakers in the rear deck of your car besides the sub? My car only has the rear speakers in the door and the sub in the deck or are you saying you're going to cut holes for the 6.5's?

atdeneve
05-10-09, 07:24 PM
I'm pretty sure the factory speakers are rated at 2 ohms.

nmaier2201
05-10-09, 10:43 PM
I really have to better word what I am thinking.... ok... so I'm leaving the tweeters in the pillars alone. I'm swapping the two speakers in the front doors, the two speakers in the rear doors, the 6.5" RF subs are going on the rear deck above the rear headrests, and I'm still batting around a 8" main sub drop in... or doing some cutting to add a 10" main sub... so no boxes in the trunk... a total of 3 subs on the rear deck.

EDIT: The factory bose sub is running 1Ohm and the 6.5" and 5.25" speakers are running the standard 4ohms... so that should make this much easier.

Still not a bad idea to get the JL cleansweep or the RF 360 (best and most expensive) ... another alternative is getting a high-pass input amp (middle of the road, should work just fine) or getting a line output converter and use that to pass RCA to a regular amp (cheap style but also works) Oh yeah if you go the line output converter style don't get a scosche.... I tried that once in a past life.. what a pile of junk.

PS. Thanks Heavymetals for the sub you are using... also I'm using the wiring diagrams you sent to me many months ago... they are great... thanks a bunch for those.

nmaier2201
05-10-09, 10:45 PM
VForMe... you sir are 29 and have two car seats in the back? Funny, I'm in exactly the same boat.. It was the criteria that led me to the V :)

FWIW... I laugh my A$$ off every time I read your "crushing the hopes of civic owners daily" slogan....I think of you every time I see a fart can or a huge wing

FactoryFast
05-10-09, 11:12 PM
I more than solved the bass issue with a single, vented 13W7 being pushed by a JL 500.1. The amp is backed by a 1 fardad cap. Its heavy, its loud, its overkill, and most importantly its quality. Ive never owned a better radio setup than this...these W7 speakers own. I can only imagine taking it up a notch with a 1000.1, dynamat, a nasty head unit and door components...the more I think of it, the more it makes sense to head in this direction mod wise. Power mods have way more potential to suck. :hide:

VforMe
05-10-09, 11:24 PM
VForMe... you sir are 29 and have two car seats in the back? Funny, I'm in exactly the same boat.. It was the criteria that led me to the V :)

FWIW... I laugh my A$$ off every time I read your "crushing the hopes of civic owners daily" slogan....I think of you every time I see a fart can or a huge wing

I think there are a lot of young guys on here in the same boat as us. I had an 02 Audi ALMS TT with a lot of work in it. I got it about a year before we had our little girl. I managed to keep it around until we had our little boy a few months ago. I just waited til my wife got so pissed about the 2 seater that she was willing to negotiate on what we got to replace it. (I'm working her to replace our expedition with a GC SRT8 as we speak) Teach your kids to wave at people as you beat their ass, it is infuriating to some guys. I got the finger from one dude.:histeric:

calidave
05-11-09, 03:24 AM
Don't use the stock amp for anything if you're going to replace the door speakers. Get a good 4-channel amp and a Cleansweep or something similar (I have the MTX RE-Q5. Works well and I believe it's cheaper than a Cleansweep). I haven't replaced my door speakers yet, but I did add 2 RE Audio SE12 subs (4ohm DVC) driven by a US Amps MD1D (1200w @1ohm). Sounds fantastic.

It sounds like you want an install that looks like stock, so obviously my setup isn't going to work for you. I'd avoid using the stock amp though. Go with a summing device and a quality 4-channel amp.

pveomett
05-11-09, 08:40 AM
so for all of you that have upgraded your audio systems... About how much should one expect to pay for a decent upgrade? I don't want a crazy loud system, just something better than the car came with.

I bought a kicker upgrade for my Jeep that replaced everything (all stock speakers, stock amp) and came with a 10" sub that had its own amp. It came with all wiring, fuses, every single thing you could need to make it work, and I paid about $900. I know it's not the best system, but I'm really happy with it. I would like to do something similar for the V, but there arent any pre-assembled kits out there for it.

nmaier2201
05-11-09, 10:53 AM
Well if all this goes through... and I don't change my mind :) I'll post up all the components I used to make it work.... you could use that list as a kit... might end up being a little bit cheaper than a kit...

calidave
05-11-09, 12:32 PM
so for all of you that have upgraded your audio systems... About how much should one expect to pay for a decent upgrade? I don't want a crazy loud system, just something better than the car came with.

I bought a kicker upgrade for my Jeep that replaced everything (all stock speakers, stock amp) and came with a 10" sub that had its own amp. It came with all wiring, fuses, every single thing you could need to make it work, and I paid about $900. I know it's not the best system, but I'm really happy with it. I would like to do something similar for the V, but there arent any pre-assembled kits out there for it.

So far, with my audio mods I posted above, I've spent about $1400. I plan on adding another amp, replacing the door speakers, and adding a capacitor, which will probably run me about another grand or so. Tack on another couple hundred for Dynamat (when my installer finally gets it...).

I'll probably pick up a Corsa exhaust before I replace the door speakers, though.

atdeneve
05-11-09, 06:34 PM
I'm pretty sure the factory speakers are rated at 2 ohms.


I really have to better word what I am thinking.... ok... so I'm leaving the tweeters in the pillars alone. I'm swapping the two speakers in the front doors, the two speakers in the rear doors, the 6.5" RF subs are going on the rear deck above the rear headrests, and I'm still batting around a 8" main sub drop in... or doing some cutting to add a 10" main sub... so no boxes in the trunk... a total of 3 subs on the rear deck.

EDIT: The factory bose sub is running 1Ohm and the 6.5" and 5.25" speakers are running the standard 4ohms... so that should make this much easier.

Still not a bad idea to get the JL cleansweep or the RF 360 (best and most expensive) ... another alternative is getting a high-pass input amp (middle of the road, should work just fine) or getting a line output converter and use that to pass RCA to a regular amp (cheap style but also works) Oh yeah if you go the line output converter style don't get a scosche.... I tried that once in a past life.. what a pile of junk.

PS. Thanks Heavymetals for the sub you are using... also I'm using the wiring diagrams you sent to me many months ago... they are great... thanks a bunch for those.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure the factory speakers are rated at 2 ohms. The rear may be 4 ohms, but the fronts are 2 ohms.

calidave
05-12-09, 04:32 AM
Like I said, I'm pretty sure the factory speakers are rated at 2 ohms. The rear may be 4 ohms, but the fronts are 2 ohms.

What? I doubt the impedance for the front and rear speakers are different. I've never heard of an amp with different impedance levels for different channels.. but then again, our Bose systems are kind of odd.

I do believe that Bose uses a lower impedance for its stock speakers than most aftermarket speakers (a lot of the aftermarket stuff is 4ohm), which is part of the reason I strongly suggest going with an aftermarket amp and a summing device. The sound isn't going to be that much better, especially if you're running (and underpowering) 4ohm speakers on an amp that can deliver at 2ohm (or whatever it goes down to).

Forgive me if I'm off the mark here.. it's late and I know just more than enough to be dangerous.

mpunklil
05-12-09, 12:14 PM
Elemental Design speakers...you can choose from multiple models w/ difference impedence ratings

nmaier2201
05-12-09, 12:45 PM
Ahhh nutz! I'm willing to measure the Ohms for every speaker in the car if someone can point me to the place and colors on the wiring harnesses :) I'm not wild about taking every door off just to measure :)

mpunklil
05-13-09, 01:17 AM
measure it at the factory amp. Im not sure, but i think the factory amp is in the trunk on one of the sides. somebody please verify
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/cleansweep/jl-cts-bose.pdf
bose schematic
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pdf/bose.pdf

VforMe
05-13-09, 08:18 AM
measure it at the factory amp. Im not sure, but i think the factory amp is in the trunk on one of the sides. somebody please verify
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/cleansweep/jl-cts-bose.pdf
bose schematic
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pdf/bose.pdf

It is on the drivers side.

nmaier2201
05-13-09, 11:12 AM
yeah drivers side... there is a moto box on the pass side.

I guess I didn't realize the bose amp drives ALL the speakers in the car.. I just assumed it was running the sub.... oops

I'll check it out. Hopefully it's labeled what wires are for what speaker...

VforMe
05-13-09, 11:41 AM
All of the color codes are under "amplifier output" on this sheet.

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/cleansweep/jl-cts-bose.pdf

nmaier2201
05-13-09, 02:17 PM
Thanks VForMe.... Funny I read that article and scanned that doc a while ago... never saw that it had the BOSE output wire colors... thx

mpunklil
05-14-09, 02:59 PM
Make sure you unplug the particular harness that you are going to be measuring the impedance from

V for Vendetta
05-15-09, 02:46 AM
I would suggest NOT using the Rockford speakers unless you like shreeky, tinny sound.

Of course, every one is different in their musical tastes but I have a trained ear and have never heard a Rockford Fosgate speaker that can reproduce sound in any regulated fashion.

If you use an oem audio integration piece, I prefer the Alpine unit, which has an anti-EQ function that eliminates the oem equalization. We can also do this manually through our headunit. The Alpine PXEH650 has a mic that will automatically tune your system and you connect it to a laptop and you can print out tangible "audio": graphs so you can "see": what you hear.

We have used this unit in multiple applications, although never in a V. (yet ;))

The JL Audio Cleansweep would be the only other unit I would use. The Rockford 360 only works through Bluetooth and it is NOT reliable. I have had many issues with this unit.

I love the JBL speakers, especially if you like to play your music LOUD and CLEAR. The two main specs you always want to compare are RMS power handling and sensitivity. The higher combination of both will lead you to your loudest/clearest combination. The mid-bass freq response on the JBL's are far superior to the Alpine Type R's, although I am a fan of both.

I am going to use JBL GTI components in the front and rear (minus rear tweets) and a JBL MKII 10" subwoofer in a fiberglass enclosure, and 3 amps. A small two channel amp for the tweeters and a large four channel amp for the front and rear drivers, and a dedicated mono block for the sub. I prefer to have full control over each frequency, which is why I run my amps full range and control each freq and time correction individually.

Diamond Audio makes great speakers and so do Alpine, JBL, Dynaudio, and a few others. I would stay away from Rockford interior speakers. You will downgrade yourself. (We are a Rockford dealer)

I am always willing to pass on generous discounts to fellow members of the forum if you are interested, although I would prefer you visit your nearest local small business----as long as they are worth a damn. =D

nmaier2201
05-15-09, 11:24 AM
V For Vendetta.... Thanks so much for the info. I really only have experience with Pioneer, JL Audio, and RF when it comes to aftermarket speakers... and my RF experience has only been with subs, not component speakers.... so that is really good information. I was looking at the spec sheets for the 6.5" and 5.25" RF power component speakers and though the range was a little off from what I was expecting (which would explain why you said they sound "tinny") so thanks for saving me from a couple hundred dollars of speakers I wouldn't like.

The 360 information is also good to know. I didn't know it ran off Bluetooth! BOOOOO that sucks. I "thought" (apparently wrong) that JL Audio made the only other integration w/ OEM with the cleansweep... I guess I should look at the Alpine unit.... although I'm not picky enough to want to hook it up to a laptop and graph it all out... the OEM EQ works "ok" enough for me.

I never used JBL, but I always thought they were sub standard.... Please keep in mind the last time I looked at them was 5+ years ago... so obviously a lot can change in that time.

I'm not sure where to go from here... so I'll keep doing some research and let everyone know what I come up with..

mpunklil
05-15-09, 06:09 PM
5+ years ago, jbl was still king $hit ;) they do make good stuff. Im an ex MECP Gold installer, as well as an ex regional tech for best buy. i have never been a fan of rockford either. highly overpriced for what you get, ESPECIALLY their paper weight amps.... "shivers" alpine products have always been a personal favorite along w/ jbl/infinity and OLD american made MTX. Crystal mobilesound used to make a good product, but they also got bought out by some chinese company. US Amps are they way to go if you can afford they're amps. Pair that up with some Focal speakers, and prepare yourself for audio bliss :) Now if you're on a seroius budget: JBL or sony amps, Jbl highs/mids/subs. But most importantly, LISTEN to everything before you buy it!!!

VforMe
05-15-09, 09:28 PM
I've owned several Fosgate amps and have never had a problem with any of them. They are typically underrated from the factory. I even have a 40.2 that is 14 years old and still kicking a JL 10W0 in my wife's expedition. I also had an MTX amp that sucked so much amperage it would kill my car just running one sub.(It went back and was replaced with the 40.2 that I still have). I still have a 360a2 sitting in my garage that when bridged down to 2 ohms was pushing over 1000w RMS that thing would rattle your brain.:bonkers: It costs me $220.00 about 6 years ago and still runs great. I will agree with you on the speakers but I must say I have always had good experience with Fosgate amps. I never liked US Amps because they were so freaking big. Hard to find a discret place to mount them.

nmaier2201
05-19-09, 11:08 AM
Ok So Here is my two phase plan.

Phase I add some subs

When I say "some" I mean three. I am going to keep the 8" and replace it with a P2D48 RF sub in factory hole.
( 4Ohm dual coil 200WRMS 400W Max)
I am going to cut the top deck to add two 6.5" subs (that will look like factory component speakers) up on the back deck. Those two subs are going to be RFP4406
( 4Ohm single coil 150W RMS each 300W Max each. 58 - 250 Hz)

I can wire both of these subs to have a 2 Ohm load. I am planning on constructing custom tube enclosures to enclose them and give them the recommended sealed enclosure space. .3cu ft for the 8" .1 cu ft for 6.5"

Now I have two options for powering these speakers given they run almost identical RMS and I can wire them to have a 2 Ohm load

Option 1: Leave existing BOSE amp and take bose sub output wires directly to 2 channel amp that accepts high level inputs. Run one channel to the 8" sub and the other to the two 6.5" speakers... cheaper, effective,

Option 2: Run a Summing device. I was hoping to use a summing device for phase II which is replacing the door speakers... but I could run one here and use it to supply RCA pre-outs to a regular 2 channel amp to power the subs...... the question becomes which summing device do you use for just subwoofers? The MTX-Re-Q has three inputs and three outputs, the JL cleansweep has two components now? the CLSSI and the CL441dsp you have to use both of them? I was thinking of just using this setup for the component speakers.... after all the subs are only really low level inputs.

Phase II is using a summing device, multi channel amp, and replacing the component speakers... I'll be doing this based on the amount of base produced by my phase I..... you know... to balance it out.

thoughts? Want me to post some pics of my sweet 6.5" subs installed on the deck? :)

heavymetals
05-19-09, 12:44 PM
Good luck.

There is a lot of crap on the deck lid, but I guess you know that already.

nmaier2201
05-19-09, 03:29 PM
Ok I've GOT IT! Slight change of plans. The new and improved plan is to use the following

Phase I

2x RFP4406 6.5" HE subwoofers
1x JL Audio 8w3v3-8 subwoofer
1x JL Audio G4500 amplifier (speaker level inputs)

Phase II

JL Audio CL SSI
JL Audio CL441-dsp
JL Audio 300/4v2 amplifier
new door speakers TBD

ssmith100
05-19-09, 03:57 PM
I told myself iId stay out of this thread but I'll help. You might want to take a look at a couple of my threads. I did the car from just minor upgrades all the way up to full bore replacement of everything. Heres one of my threads. Do a look up under my name and you'll find a ton of information.


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2004/133152-stereo-complete-new-pics.html


Shane

nmaier2201
05-19-09, 04:56 PM
Ahh thanks Shane


Nice build... I'm not planning on dynomatting the whole car... but then again if I turn up the volume and it rattles everything... I'll be changing my mind ultra quick

VforMe
05-19-09, 05:15 PM
I think the 6.5's are going to be a waste of money. They would only serve to produce some higher frequency sounds closer to midrange. I don't think you'll be able to tell a huge difference with them in. The eight inch sub is not going to get you the same kind of punch as a 10. I would enlarge the hole to get the 10 in. If the 10 is too much you can always go down on the gain. Maybe I missed the part where you explained why you were going with the 6.5's. Are you going to build separate little boxes for them?

nmaier2201
05-19-09, 05:24 PM
The 6.5s are going up on the deck. You are pry right about the 10" sub..... I'm going to go measure it again. I didn't want to buy a huge 10" that weighed 80 lbs and have it sag the back of the car down... but I'm not going to lie... I was worried about the punch of a 8".... I guess I figured it would be better than the bose amp and if I hated it I could always go bigger.... little hard to shrink it once you have cut the hole.....

nmaier2201
05-19-09, 05:29 PM
yeah the 10" is 12.25lbs and the 8" is 8.2lbs

I think that was the reason it's another 4 lbs..... but if it's going to sound like crap maybe 4lbs isn't a big deal

VforMe
05-19-09, 05:35 PM
I understand you're putting the 6.5's on the rear deck I just don't understand why? The weight difference between an 8 and 10 of just about any sub should be minor. I would think less than 5 pounds.

Just because I was curious and I'm stuck in the Tampa airport and I have nothing better to do......


8W3v3-8.....8.2 lbs. / 3.7 kg


10W3v3-8......12.25 lbs. / 5.56 kg

Get out the jig saw:stirpot:

Edit: you beat me to the weight....

mpunklil
05-20-09, 03:35 PM
+1, ditch the 6.5" "subs". a good set of components/amps will MORE than compensate. You would have to crossover the two subwoofers seperately in order for it to sound good and not muddy. get yourself an audiocontrol epicenter instead :)