: Deville/Fleetwood-Brougham question...



EMB1230
05-07-09, 11:16 PM
Hi guys. I haven't posted on here in months since I sold my 93 Deville back in March. I have a friend intrested in finding a 77-84 Deville or a 77-92Fleetwood/Brougham. He want's to know what the difference are between the Deville and the FW-BH. Thanks in advance guys.

77CDV
05-07-09, 11:28 PM
77-79 and 80-92 are distinct body styles. From there, the difference between the DeVille and Fleetwood is the interiors and some minor trim variation.

EMB1230
05-07-09, 11:42 PM
I told him that personally, I like the 90-92 the most except for the door-mounted seatbelts.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
05-08-09, 10:59 AM
Welcome back EMB. DO NOT get anything with the 4.1. That pretty much rules out '81-'85. After that they used an olds 305 engine so they are okay. I would say go '90-'92, but then again I am a little biased. :D

jayoldschool
05-08-09, 01:57 PM
DO NOT get anything with the 4.1 if the seller does not have all the maintenance records. That pretty much rules out '81-'85 actually, the 81s got the last of the big block engines, the 368. After that they used an olds 305 engine so they are okay. the Olds is a 307, and was used from 86-90

FTFY ;)

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
05-08-09, 05:29 PM
When did they start that 4-6-8 BS because those engines were troublesome as well?

Anything '86 and up will do fine. Personally I like the '90-'92 better because of the updates they did. Front and rear Euro styled lights look way better. They also came with a digital dash, standard power relining seats, an improved radio, improved climate control, standard ABS, much better interior trim (better looking and more abundant wood, although its fake), and of course, an optional 350. They also changed the rear doors so the leather roof wraps around the rear opera windows, making it look more formal.

However, I would not recommend one of these as a year round DD. I had to drive mine in some snowy conditions when I first got it and it was awful. I am sure others will disagree, but mine sucks in the snow. Even the lightest tap of the throttle and the tires would start to spin. The lightest tap of the brakes would lock up the wheels. The car is simply too heavy for driving in slick conditions. Even in the rain it will spin the tires with only 1/3 throttle. BTW, my tires are brand new all seasons so my tires are not causing the problem.

jayoldschool
05-08-09, 05:39 PM
BTW, my tires are brand new all seasons so my tires are not causing the problem.

It's not the tires, it's the driver :D

Don't stress, I drove the same way when I was 19, too. If 1/3 throttle spins, then press lighter.

BTW, that "4-6-8 BS" was one year only: 1981. "because those engines were troublesome as well" The engines weren't troublesome, the computer program was. The only problem was the 6 cylinder mode. A V8 is balanced to fire on 8 or on 4. Look at all modern DOD engines (GM, Chrysler). They ONLY have an 8 and 4 mode. NO 6. On the 81, when the computer called for 6, the engine would be firing out of balance briefly before it switched to 4. As a result, Cadillac owners used to butter-smooth big blocks complained. The fix? Cut the wire from the trans to the computer that tells when to switch to less cylinders. The fix today for 81 owners (like me)? Hook the wire back up, but put an inline switch before the computer. Leave it off around town (when it would call for 6 cyl mode), but flip it on the highway to put the engine in 4 cylinder mode. Therefore, the engine runs smooth all the time, and it never runs in the unbalanced 6 cyl mode. Cool, no?

School's out! I'm going out to the garage to work on a Cadillac :D

brougham
05-08-09, 06:52 PM
For the 864s it was mainly that the people driving them didnt like the way they felt when they dropped cylinders. They were reliable and like jayoldschool said you can easily disable it.
My 1991 will easily slide around on wet roads I could see it being a problem in the winter without snowtires but I wouldn't know. Thats what the DeVille is for.

EMB1230
05-08-09, 07:55 PM
having a 4.1 won't be a problem because he's going to rip it out anyway in favor of something else.... he too expressed a like for the later ones 90-92 when they updated the stereo and hvac controls. his big plan is to have a set of "twins" a 81-89 Town Car and 80-92 Brougham. He's a die hard Ford fan, but I think I persuaded him to give a Caddy a try ;)

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
05-08-09, 09:07 PM
It's not the tires, it's the driver :D

Don't stress, I drove the same way when I was 19, too. If 1/3 throttle spins, then press lighter.

I know how to drive in the winter. The first thing I ever drove in snow was an '89 Ford F-250 with an International Harvester diesel. That truck is so front heavy it gets stuck in wet grass, seriously. My dad has a Ford E-150 that I also drive frequently and it does better than the Brougham in the winter. I know how to go easy on the throttle but having that heavy of a car that is RWD with boatloads of torque makes it less than ideal. My '88, on the other hand, does as well as my Mom's '00 4x4 Blazer in snowy conditions.

Lazarus_Rooney
05-08-09, 09:39 PM
not to sound stupid, but why not just put something very heavy in the trunk to get better traction? my dads truck is a 1998 toyota tacoma (it has everything a pre-adolescent girl would want in a truck and nothing a grown man would want in....anything) and he kept a pair of dug -up tree stumps in the back for traction in the snow, wouldnt a few bags of sand in the trunk have the same effect?

didnt mean to thread-jack you, ebm1230. just curious.

sven914
05-08-09, 11:57 PM
not to sound stupid, but why not just put something very heavy in the trunk to get better traction? my dads truck is a 1998 toyota tacoma (it has everything a pre-adolescent girl would want in a truck and nothing a grown man would want in....anything) and he kept a pair of dug -up tree stumps in the back for traction in the snow, wouldnt a few bags of sand in the trunk have the same effect?

didnt mean to thread-jack you, ebm1230. just curious.

To answer your question: Yes. I use cinder blocks because they don't have a tenancy to leak in my trunk. Weight over the rear axle of any rear wheel drive vehicle, be it pickup truck or luxury sedan, is beneficial to winter traction, yet detrimentally to gas mileage.

And to answer ebm1230, the Fleetwood Brougham was a luxury option for the De Ville until 1985. After that it was a separate model line. The differences are mostly cosmetic. The main differences are that the Fleetwood has a wreath crest instead of a V crest, a formal roof line with a limousine type rear window, and chrome trim that wraps around th sides of the hood.

Fleetwood Brougham Emblem
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vofoa0PbcNY/SXd_SWV06mI/AAAAAAAAAVU/4VB5YyVs1WQ/s320/true-cadillac-logo.jpg
De Ville Emblem
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/7/8590990_d9bbe2a21f.jpg?v=0

Fleetwood Brougham Hood
http://www.brinkleysauto.com/images/cadillac01.JPG

De Ville Hood (notice the chrome centerline)http://imcdb.org/images/155/191.jpg

Fleetwood Brougham Rear Window
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2714/541/31782770010_large.jpg

De Ville Rear Window
http://www.liquidationcentre.net/images/Cadillac-Sedan-DeVille-back.jpg

The chrome around the window ends at the rear door on some De Ville years, but wraps around the body and ends at the front clip on the Fleetwood Brougham.

EMB1230
05-09-09, 01:01 AM
AHHH thank you very much! Acually makes sense now. Also kind of reminds me of the whole LeSabre/Park Ave/Electra deal.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
05-09-09, 03:04 AM
not to sound stupid, but why not just put something very heavy in the trunk to get better traction? my dads truck is a 1998 toyota tacoma (it has everything a pre-adolescent girl would want in a truck and nothing a grown man would want in....anything) and he kept a pair of dug -up tree stumps in the back for traction in the snow, wouldnt a few bags of sand in the trunk have the same effect?

It works great for traction but that is also extra weight you have to bring to a stop. The last snowstorm we had was more of an ice storm and I got stuck on my way to school. I was on a bridge and had to stop because someone was in the ditch and the sheriff had one lane blocked. I soon found out why the car was in the ditch. I barely tapped my brakes and could feel the ABS doing its job. It was a completely flat bridge but icy and I could not get the car to move forward, even just letting it idle. I had to have the guy behind me give me a push (he had a truck with a grille guard that had rubber bump strips on it).

Aron9000
05-09-09, 07:21 AM
The 80-84 Devilles are the "dechromed" version. Co-worker has a mint 1983 Sedan Deville, I parked next to it one day and my 1991 has a lot more chrome and brightwork. His car is a light metallic blue with a navy blue vinyl top and navy leather. The padded top really makes these cars IMO, I hate the very plain Devilles that don't have one.

jayoldschool
05-09-09, 11:20 AM
The biggest difference for winter driving is tires (I can't believe we are talking about winter!). I use my wagon in the winter, so my other cars never see the salt. This year, I put on a set of Hankook Winter iPike tires. UNSTOPPABLE. Best winter tires I have ever used. Big blocks to chew through the snow, great siping so they are good on ice. A nice high-speed directional design so they are actually quiet on the highway. I highly recommend them! I went with 235 75 15s, btw. They are big, but they fit fine. Put a set of these on, and you will NEVER have problems with traction in the winter. Put studs in them, and you could drive up a ski hill...

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/9818/ipikevj9.jpg

sven914
05-10-09, 06:34 PM
The biggest difference for winter driving is tires (I can't believe we are talking about winter!). I use my wagon in the winter, so my other cars never see the salt. This year, I put on a set of Hankook Winter iPike tires. UNSTOPPABLE. Best winter tires I have ever used. Big blocks to chew through the snow, great siping so they are good on ice. A nice high-speed directional design so they are actually quiet on the highway. I highly recommend them! I went with 235 75 15s, btw. They are big, but they fit fine. Put a set of these on, and you will NEVER have problems with traction in the winter. Put studs in them, and you could drive up a ski hill...

I used Kelly Wintermark tires. They not only have thick lugs and are pinned for studs, but they have 1 inch wide white walls, which is a must have for any Cadillac. We had a bad snow and ice storm and my car was the only one that was able to get out of the driveway, and my neighbor owns a 4X4 Blazer (I live in a town house and there is one common driveway).

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=375&pictureid=3533
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=375&pictureid=2214

The only problem I Have with them is that they rub on the inner fender during sharp turns.