: Brake wear



pjbizjak
05-05-09, 10:38 AM
Can anyone tell me if an 07 STS has electronic brake pad wear sensors? My STS has less then 28k miles on it and the brakes just started to grind on the rotors. Never got any kind of message on the DIC that the brakes needed attention. Also should I stick with OEM cereamic pads? And what about the rotors, standard or upgraded to slotted/drilled ones?

next2pool
05-05-09, 11:26 AM
Can anyone tell me if an 07 STS has electronic brake pad wear sensors? My STS has less then 28k miles on it and the brakes just started to grind on the rotors. Never got any kind of message on the DIC that the brakes needed attention. Also should I stick with OEM cereamic pads? And what about the rotors, standard or upgraded to slotted/drilled ones?

I'm not sure which method the STS uses for worn pad notification, but I would stick to the OEM setup for pads and rotors. They will give the best balance of wear, noise, effectiveness for most drivers. It's all a balancing act and you can diverge from that if your driving habits or environment is unusual. Slotted/drilled rotors are OK but other than looks, I doubt you need them.

BaTu
05-05-09, 01:09 PM
I Totally disagree....

Stock pads are Way too "dusty" and all you're going to get from OEM is OVER Priced rotors ;)

Try Hawk Street Performance pad for improved ALL Around braking with Much less dust and you might as well take advantage of drilled/slotted rotors for the few times you Could use the help during very hard braking (no disadvantages and they Do look "cool" to boot!) :D

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-sts-forum-2005-through-2010/167994-cross-drilled-slotted-rotors.html

GM pads have that metal "squeeler" clip that should have alerted you to the fact your pads were close......

bass_sts
05-05-09, 01:21 PM
P.S. the grind you hear is the sensor... most modern pads have a small metal arm that will grind against the rotor before you actually run out of pad. Low tech but effective.

BaTu
05-05-09, 03:04 PM
I can't imagine anyone confusing the sound of metal-to-metal as the pads backing plate grinds against the rotor with the "chirp" the spring metal clip makes.......

pjbizjak
05-05-09, 07:44 PM
I never heard the wear indicator on my 2007 squeek/screach. On my 2000 sts it had electronic sensors and you got a message on the DIC. With all the dodads on the STS you would think they would have some kind of computer warning. The car is pretty quiet, and if you had the radio off and window down, maybe then you would hear the screach noise.

next2pool
05-05-09, 09:15 PM
A lot of testing goes into the brake systems of new cars. Things like stopping distance, noise, wear, dust, stopping power, variation with temperature or humidity, water resistance, fade, are all part of the equation. There are virtually no aftermarket pads (unless they match the OEM specs) that provide the same balance of all those parameters. If you want to change that balance, thats fine, but trust me, you will give up on one parameter to gain another--which is fine if you go into it with your eyes open.

BaTu
05-06-09, 10:07 AM
A lot of testing goes into the brake systems of new cars. Things like stopping distance, noise, wear, dust, stopping power, variation with temperature or humidity, water resistance, fade, are all part of the equation. There are virtually no aftermarket pads (unless they match the OEM specs) that provide the same balance of all those parameters. If you want to change that balance, thats fine, but trust me, you will give up on one parameter to gain another--which is fine if you go into it with your eyes open.


You can't possibly believe that line of nonsense! ;)

Talk about naive....

You actually want to state that the absolute pinnacle of development, without production cost concerns, was achieved in 2006 for the '07s front brake material and nothing will Ever surpass that material for it's application??? - really??? :cookoo:

And, of course, this applies to the factory rotors too - right? :cloud9:

This is You, with "your eyes open" ? hehehe

next2pool
05-06-09, 12:13 PM
""You can't possibly believe that line of nonsense!

Talk about naive....

You actually want to state that the absolute pinnacle of development, without production cost concerns, was achieved in 2006 for the '07s front brake material and nothing will Ever surpass that material for it's application??? - really??? ""

Think what you want--I've spent 32 years in chassis engineering and testing. The laws of physics are what they are.

BaTu
05-06-09, 02:16 PM
I've spent 32 years in chassis engineering

Ahhh,,,, of course, an engineer, now I understand..... ;)

On another note, your replies would make more sense if you'd simply click on the QUOTE button at the bottom of the post you're responding to instead of doing a Copy/Paste into the "Quick Reply" box. :drool:

next2pool
05-06-09, 04:04 PM
Ahhh,,,, of course, an engineer, now I understand..... ;)

On another note, your replies would make more sense if you'd simply click on the QUOTE button at the bottom of the post you're responding to instead of doing a Copy/Paste into the "Quick Reply" box. :drool:

As they say--everyone is a music critic, but very few can create it.

EChas3
05-06-09, 10:22 PM
You both have good points. IMO, BaTU has the stronger position for two reasons.

First, he can choose to spend more than makes good sense for most people. Anyone with a shred of technical experience knows that when approaching state-of-the-art performance in anything, it becomes much more expensive to achieve smaller increments of improvement.

Secondly, BaTu can choose the performance factors that are most important to him and his situation. A certain compound may perform poorly in wet conditions but might be acceptable to him when and where he plans on using his car.

For most people, GM made reasonable choices but they were a compromise with cost being a significant factor. Despite my support for BaTu's position, as likely as not I'll replace my pads with OEM. I probably can't do much better than make the same compromise.

next2pool
05-06-09, 10:39 PM
Actually I agree with a lot of that - as I said, there's a lot of latitude to move in several directions, but you will give in another, which is fine based on your own preferences. I'd have to say however, that when it comes to mechanicals, we really didn't skimp on materials and quality. Unfortunately we did in appearance and interior trim stuff. Gm is finally getting the interiors right as well as attention to detail on exterior trim.

BaTu
05-07-09, 11:15 AM
As they say--everyone is a music critic, but very few can create it.

You Know,,, I Like this analogy! But, I think it speaks exactly to My point ;)

You see, anyone, just anyone, CAN create music. A 5yr old and a xylophone can do it. I can do it, heck, put just about anybody in front a musical instrument and They can do it too!

The problem is of course, we can All agree, it's not Good music :)

Just like the effect engineers so often have on the practical aspects of the Real world..... Not Good,,,, they're so myopic they routinely just can't see the "forest for the trees" (plus, I've seen So Many, So Willing to line-up for the companies Kool-Aid that pulling their head out of the sand and looking around just never occurs to them :D )

I'm sure you're a wonderful engineer and not guilty of any of these aspects of your fellow colleagues and as we all get older we become set in out opinions, but, it's really a changing world we live in!

Another note again,,,, after you press the Quote button and are taken to the "Advanced Reply" page you can edit the illrelivent portions out of the quoted post.

KARL DAHLEN
05-07-09, 07:43 PM
Given the short life of OEM brake pads I have experienced over the years, I am convinced that the overarching factor is the frequency that dealers will replace most them with another set of OEM, thus adding to their repair revenue. I do not believe for a minute, that OEM pads are the most advanced technology available. I will replace my own, thank you, with a quality aftermarket brand like Hawk or Akebono.

EChas3
05-07-09, 08:45 PM
Given the short life of OEM brake pads I have experienced over the years, I am convinced that the overarching factor is the frequency that dealers will replace most them with another set of OEM, thus adding to their repair revenue. I do not believe for a minute, that OEM pads are the most advanced technology available. I will replace my own, thank you, with a quality aftermarket brand like Hawk or Akebono.

I wonder if my brakes have been replaced. (I bought a CPO coming off a 3-year lease.) I have the JE5 and 45,000 miles. The service record makes it look like only the original dealer serviced the car. After a recent tire rotation, the same dealer pronouced the pads good.

Even if the the car was babied, it doesn't make sense compared to the experience of the members of this forum. I wonder how much brake pad wear varies by option and driving style. :stirpot:

next2pool
05-07-09, 08:50 PM
[QUOTE=BaTu;1869710]You Know,,, I Like this analogy! But, I think it speaks exactly to My point ;)

You see, anyone, just anyone, CAN create music. A 5yr old and a xylophone can do it. I can do it, heck, put just about anybody in front a musical instrument and They can do it too!

The problem is of course, we can All agree, it's not Good music :)

Just like the effect engineers so often have on the practical aspects of the Real world..... Not Good,,,, they're so myopic they routinely just can't see the "forest for the trees" (plus, I've seen So Many, So Willing to line-up for the companies Kool-Aid that pulling their head out of the sand and looking around just never occurs to them :D )

You know dude--it's weenies like you that give forums like this a bad name. Most of us are into sharing information, but we always have flamers like you who have no knowledge of anything, other than their own inadequacy. You don't have a clue of what you are talking about. If it wasn't for engineers, there would be no STS. I thought I would join this forum because it's fun to share info about our cars, but I'm sure you have driven away more than just me because of your obvious sexual inadequacy. What happens is that people who have real questions or information eventually leave these forums because of a-holes like you. In this case you accomplished your motive. I'm outa here--enjoy your inadequate buds and your own deep sorrows!

EChas3
05-07-09, 08:59 PM
Whooo! Somebody's button got pushed!

next2pool
05-07-09, 09:19 PM
Whooo! Somebody's button got pushed!

isn't that the truth--you know a lot of it is style and maturity, I'm all for free speach and differing opinions. there are some cool folks on here that know how to present differing opinions and that is a good thing. But the jerk in question has a lot of growing up to do, but I suspect it's too late for that. As an aside, there never was an STS in Cadillac's portolio untill the engineer enthusiasts created it and sold it to top management. So it does hurt to see trailer park trash outguess the thousands of hours that went into creation of a truly nice vehicle.

turnerbend
05-07-09, 09:25 PM
BATU, get a life Gomer.........

PEAROB1
05-08-09, 01:25 AM
A lot of testing goes into the brake systems of new cars. Things like stopping distance, noise, wear, dust, stopping power, variation with temperature or humidity, water resistance, fade, are all part of the equation. There are virtually no aftermarket pads (unless they match the OEM specs) that provide the same balance of all those parameters. If you want to change that balance, thats fine, but trust me, you will give up on one parameter to gain another--which is fine if you go into it with your eyes open.

Not to change the topic from the STS, but I was in Destin, FL at a resturant and there was a gentleman that parked next to me in a new AMG CL65. I complimented him on his car and his reply was it stops on a dime at any speed, but he hates the brake dust from every day driving.

I said your brakes are like this resturant we are about to go eat at "there is no free lunch" He chuckled and and replied "TRUE". Must be nice to have a CL65 to drive every day!!

BaTu
05-08-09, 12:22 PM
You know dude--it's weenies like you that give forums like this a bad name. Most of us are into sharing information, but we always have flamers like you who have no knowledge of anything, other than their own inadequacy. You don't have a clue of what you are talking about. If it wasn't for engineers, there would be no STS. I thought I would join this forum because it's fun to share info about our cars, but I'm sure you have driven away more than just me because of your obvious sexual inadequacy. What happens is that people who have real questions or information eventually leave these forums because of a-holes like you. In this case you accomplished your motive. I'm outa here--enjoy your inadequate buds and your own deep sorrows!

Whoa!!!! a little sensitive - Aren't we?? ;)

Seriously dude, you feel FLAMED? I actually FLAMED you - really?

WOW...... (you read where I said I was sure YOU were a "wonderful engineer" - right?)

So, ALL engineers are GOOD engineers??? No exceptions,,, and if I say that those of us "in the field" who have to deal with issues, scratching our heads, saying things like "How could they (you know, the infallible engineers) have done it THIS way and NOT seen that would happen because of it" are just those "who have no knowledge of anything" - hehehe

OOOkay, I can see you're just a reasonable guy with a desire to share but, aren't too sure you can tolerate another view point after you make the, impressive, statement of ->"I've spent 32 years in chassis engineering and testing" and I don't fall on my knees ;)

Now, if your name was Al Cline (an engineer who I TOTALLY respect and believe virtually Everything he says) maybe I would have brought along my knee pads :D

pjbizjak
05-08-09, 07:32 PM
Sorry I started this thread!!!!!!!!!! Had new brakes and rotors installed and they aren't GM OEM's, we'll see how many miles I get out of these.

KARL DAHLEN
05-09-09, 11:48 AM
Sorry I started this thread!!!!!!!!!! Had new brakes and rotors installed and they aren't GM OEM's, we'll see how many miles I get out of these.

What brand pads did you decide upon?