: Check out my Headgasket Job in the car!!!!



aac123
05-02-09, 03:23 PM
how do you upload pics tried to insert attachments?

dkozloski
05-02-09, 04:41 PM
Go advanced and manage attachments.

Submariner409
05-02-09, 05:35 PM
aac123, You need to create a folder of pictures that are about 50 - 95 kb in size, then use that to browse to as dkoz suggested. If you expect to be a regular contributor, create a "CF post pix" folder and slowly fill it up with good stuff. When you "go advanced", surf to the folder and upload what you want. You can also load pix into your private album......see the little album folder under your name ? Click on it.

One workaround large file size pix is to go to your camera or folder, e-mail the pix to yourself with the tool "Make my pictures smaller". It reduces the file size only, not the actual pic.........then open your own attachment and "save as" to your CF pic folder......

Sorry for the hijack.........

aac123
05-02-09, 06:44 PM
Thanks for the help guys,justed wanted to know what u think about cylinder #7 with the coolant in it since all other valves are clean and dry is #7 probally were the headbolt and gasket has failed the worse.Also read the other guys threads on doing them in the car was just wondering if somebody could chime in on how im going to get the back head off??? Take the moter mounts off and pull the engine forward is it that easy?? Thanks alot This place is alot of help and fun.

Krashed989
05-02-09, 07:43 PM
I haven't done the job in the car before, although I have done the job before. I think you're going to have to pull the head with the exhaust manifold still attached. There's 2 bolts hooking the exhaust manifold to the exhaust Y pipe, that's probably your best bet. You may have to lower the rear part of the cradle a little or take out the passenger side motor mount to get at it though. The coolant crossover, you can leave in place, just undo the 2 bolts which may cause you to have to take off the transaxle range switch (mark it before removal). There are two coolant pipes going over the exhaust manifold that you need to disconnect. Anyways, I hope you have small hands, a universal joint, lots of extensions, and are able to cuss a lot, because that's what you'll need. lol

Doing the job in the car means that you will not be able to use Jake's stud kit. Instead your repair options are limited to timeserts, and norms threaded inserts. Timeserts have a better drill guide (from what I've read). But Norms seems to hold better. Check out this thread for more information: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/133429-root-cause-head-gasket-failure-fix.html

zonie77
05-03-09, 12:21 AM
I have to ask...Why do it in the car?

It is sooooooooooooooooooo much easier if you drop the cradle.

aac123
05-03-09, 01:21 AM
Hey guys thanks for the input especially the one about the exaust and stuff, I was wondering about that and if i would be able to use jacks stud kits with it in the car. I would looooooooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvveeeeee to just drop the cradle but with no garage or equipment or the right funds I must cuss scrape and bloody knuckle it in the car.

aac123
05-03-09, 01:23 AM
Also I was kind of timid about even drilling new head bolts because I have never done that on an engine before maybe i would try it if i droped the cradle, but one wrong slip will I am bending over the fender while Im tapping would mean I just wasted the whole project.

aac123
05-03-09, 01:24 AM
So how many miles could I get If I just clean out the holes real good and put new head bolts and gasket in. I am just looking for the best route for a northstar novice to get the best RIDING car in the world back on the road.
Thanks for the help and all or any input is gratly appreciated.

[NortHStaR]
05-03-09, 01:42 AM
wait, so your not drilling the holes at all? Im pretty sure you have to drill, tap and either insert or stud each of the holes for the repair to have any effect.

If I'm wrong someone will chime in but I really dont think I am.

Krashed989
05-03-09, 01:47 AM
So how many miles could I get If I just clean out the holes real good and put new head bolts and gasket in...

To be honest, you would be lucky if you are able to even torque all the head bolts down without stripping the threads from the block. The integrity of the aluminum has already been compromised from age and even more so from just removing the old head bolts. You need the bolts to be gripping new metal, otherwise you'll be doing the job again in the near future.

aac123
05-03-09, 02:19 AM
Ya I didnt think I could get by with just putting new bolts but was reading the fsm and they had some way of measuring the length of the head bolt to the face and if it was one they would trash the block basically saying not worth the repai and couldnt be in inventory but the other way was just put new headbolts, that makes more commen sense what u guys said about the block being old already and stuff neeeds fresh aluminum to grip

zonie77
05-03-09, 11:13 AM
A common problem with bad HG's is the threads that hold the head bolts corroding. You cannot retighten the bolts because the threads are stripped.

Trying to do the job the car requires a special close quarters drill to drill out the holes for the inserts.

Drilling and tapping the inserts is not hard. I used timeserts and it comes with a guide to insure you drill the holes in the right place and square to the block. If you follow the directions it is very hard to do it wrong. It becomes a long process but it is not hard, it's just doing all 20 holes that becomes a little tedious.

I would try to find somewhere to do this job where you can drop the cradle.

The only tool you are saving by doing it in the car is the engine hoist. Every other tool you will still need, plus you will need the special drill. If you can find an inexpensive hoist you can resell it or look into renting one. I prefer buying and reselling so it's available when you need it.

bigtone
05-03-09, 09:43 PM
I have done a HG job in the car, and I can say it is possible. You must remove the rear head with the exhaust manifold attached, as mentioned above. I didnt have to tilt the engine in my 98 Deville. You will need to drill and install the timeserts or whatever you want to use, a 1/2 inch right angle drill is necessary for the rear holes, and some of the front holes. Also, I had to use an air ratchet to start some of the holes, and then I finished them off with the right angle drill. If you are at all creative you can do this job while in the car. Search for a post I left with some tips concerning timing, etc.

aac123
05-04-09, 08:06 AM
thanks bigtone ur thread was the one that made me even think it is possible to do in the car i was just wondering do i have to take out the transmission or anything special to tilt the engine forward to do the back bank

bigtone
05-04-09, 10:30 AM
I see that you have a 99 Deville, should be the same as my 98. All I did to get additional clearance for the rear bank was to use a come-along to tilt the engine slightly forward, there is enough play in the motor mounts for that. I hooked it on the drivers side front hook on the engine, and the other end on the radiator support. The amount I pulled was slight, to be honest I could have pulled it there by hand but I wanted it to stay there. The extra half ince really made a difference with the valve cover and the heater pipes. Also, I removed the rear hook on the engine, which made the heater pipes alot easier. Any other questions feel free to ask.

aac123
05-04-09, 01:52 PM
thanks man im in the middle of tryin to find a pulley for thw water pump pulley i seen a thread were a guy used an altanator or power steering pump pulley but couldnt find anything that looked like that at advance or autozone waitin for snap-on website to see if they got something the part # is J 38825 but gm parts local guy said call snap on> will have some more questions and pics when i get the covers off check back about wednessday
thanks

Ranger
05-04-09, 04:57 PM
Why do you need a new pulley? Don't use anything but the correct pulley.

aac123
05-04-09, 07:35 PM
49623


does anybody know where i can get this tool checked advanse and autozone but they needed exact name couldnt find it by pic the actual part is 100$ J38825: is water pump ulley puller

thanks

Ranger
05-04-09, 07:42 PM
Use a power steering pump pulley puller.

Krashed989
05-05-09, 05:01 AM
That puller I borrowed from the power plant my dad manages. It worked fine, but it wasn't the one that was supposed to be used. The right puller is actually what Ranger said.

Submariner409
05-05-09, 08:32 AM
Krashed, That pic of the puller attached to the WP pulley looks like the center puller screw is a tapered affair which bears on the cam threaded end.

The proper puller uses those threads to remove the pulley, so now you need to make sure the threads in the end of the cam are in good condition because you need them to install the pulley - use a well lubricated bolt and stack of s/s washers to slowly push the pulley back to its original position.

aac123
05-05-09, 11:00 AM
Thanks for the help with the puller guys going to go pick it up today, one question was how do i relieve the tension on the timing chain to get the heads of do i need to get a special tool do those sprockets disconnect from the head been reading alldata manual and its not very detailed and in bigtones thread it looks like theyre hanging in mid air, maybe he can chime in thanks alot guys

[NortHStaR]
05-05-09, 02:45 PM
I didnt ever have to "relieve tension" when I did my job I just unbolted the camshafts, no removing sprockets or anything of the sort.

tateos
05-05-09, 09:44 PM
;1867708']I didnt ever have to "relieve tension" when I did my job I just unbolted the camshafts, no removing sprockets or anything of the sort.

Yeah - that or unbolt the tensioners or guides on the front of the engine

I used this to remove the pulley:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66412

Krashed989
05-05-09, 10:05 PM
Krashed, That pic of the puller attached to the WP pulley looks like the center puller screw is a tapered affair which bears on the cam threaded end.

The proper puller uses those threads to remove the pulley, so now you need to make sure the threads in the end of the cam are in good condition because you need them to install the pulley - use a well lubricated bolt and stack of s/s washers to slowly push the pulley back to its original position.

So that's what the threaded hole was for! Haha It didn't even occur to me. I put the pulley back on with a flat punch and a ball peen hammer, didn't think to use a bolt. :p

Submariner409
05-06-09, 08:58 AM
Cross your fingers. You were beating on the end of the intake camshaft which is aligned in the head with bearings and thrust bearings. Not to mention that timing chain and sprocket on the other end........:eek:

aac123
05-06-09, 04:14 PM
well fellas I got the front valve cover off today with the pulley you guys recommended. Any special tips on getting the head off or stuff to watch out for going to wait till this weekend to take heads off, really dont wont to lose the timing since im doing it in the car dont want to any further into the engine than i have to. That oil in the head looks like grey poupon i guess all the water and cooloant getting in it. Should i send the heads off to somebody to check or just slap up back on? For a novice timeserts or norms, im thinkin of going with norms because their bigger dont want to do it twice.

Thanks alot

Submariner409
05-06-09, 05:08 PM
You need to read up on Northstar cams, timing, and chains........and the need to set the engine and cams at a particular position in order for all the timing marks to line up........BEFORE you align the cams and chains to remove all the sprockets, and it all has to be held together with wire while it's apart......those 3 chains will slip teeth if there's not tension applied.......I've only done this procedure out of the car, so have no idea what you have to do with everything sort of inaccessible.

tateos
05-06-09, 06:30 PM
If you leave it in the car, you need to lower the cradle enough to get the balancer and timing case cover off. Otherwise, how do you depress the chain tensioners without removing the timing case cover? Now that you went that far, why not drop the cradle all the way and make it easy on yourself?

zonie77
05-07-09, 11:16 AM
aac123, I use a straight edge to check the head for straightness. A level or carpenter's square works. I did not send them out.

Check the cams carefully for worn lobes.

Timing the cams in the car is a pain.

bigtone
05-07-09, 11:30 AM
Not to be a nag about this, but I did mine in the car, and did not have to lower the engine or remove the balancer. I removed the bolts from the timing cover and it tilted out at the top enough for me to reach in and release the tensioners. Actually, the was enough room to replace one of the guides that I broke when removing the head.

aac123
05-07-09, 11:35 AM
aac123, I use a straight edge to check the head for straightness. A level or carpenter's square works. I did not send them out.

Check the cams carefully for worn lobes.

Timing the cams in the car is a pain.

thanks zonie, the car only has 100,000 and has overheated while I replaced the whole coolant system so i didnt know if all the heat cycles didnt warp or crack the heads or block, I hope not. Doesnt aluminum disperse heat more efficiently than iron or steel, even though its softer could it be more durable during bad conditions?

aac123
05-07-09, 11:40 AM
Not to be a nag about this, but I did mine in the car, and did not have to lower the engine or remove the balancer. I removed the bolts from the timing cover and it tilted out at the top enough for me to reach in and release the tensioners. Actually, the was enough room to replace one of the guides that I broke when removing the head.

na no nag ive been waitin for ya to chime in for i take the heads off. Thanks bigtone, by the way i see in ur pics u left the water crossover on was the any bolts connected to the head that u had to take out?

Krashed989
05-07-09, 03:46 PM
na no nag ive been waitin for ya to chime in for i take the heads off. Thanks bigtone, by the way i see in ur pics u left the water crossover on was the any bolts connected to the head that u had to take out?

There are two bolts hooking the water crossover to the head. You may need to remove the transmission range switch (mark it first so you can install it in the same position after) to get them out. The wire harness is probably in the way too.

tateos
05-07-09, 05:20 PM
Not to be a nag about this, but I did mine in the car, and did not have to lower the engine or remove the balancer. I removed the bolts from the timing cover and it tilted out at the top enough for me to reach in and release the tensioners. Actually, the was enough room to replace one of the guides that I broke when removing the head.

No nag...that's very cool - what you did was very creative - unbolting but not removing the timing case cover. I salute you!

[NortHStaR]
05-07-09, 07:09 PM
Yes my hats off to anyone who puts themselvs through the brain pain of doing this job with the motor in the car.

bigtone
05-09-09, 08:33 AM
na no nag ive been waitin for ya to chime in for i take the heads off. Thanks bigtone, by the way i see in ur pics u left the water crossover on was the any bolts connected to the head that u had to take out?
Yes, there are 2 bolts in each head. When I reinstalled, I just slid the new gasket in between the crossover and the head while I was lowering the head in place.

aac123
05-10-09, 08:39 PM
Cant get the front head off, took off 10 headbolts all bolts that I can see. What is holding the head on, took the 2 timin tensioners. What are the M6 bolts and how many are there???????

32vmonte
05-10-09, 09:26 PM
Did you take the three bolts off inside the area where the timing chain runs?

They just seal the end of the head up to prevent oil from escaping. I know there is a name for them, I do know they are only torqued to like 106 in/lbs or something like that.


EDIT: Oh never mind I looked at your pic and seen that you have removed them already. Should just pull off. Maybe its stuck on there with the gasket.

Krashed989
05-11-09, 12:06 AM
I would take out the dipstick tube, because it will get in the way. It just has a 10mm bolt securing it to the block and then it pulls out of its hole, twist it as you pull to free the rubber O ring.

Other than that, you may just be stuck on the exhaust. Have someone help you lift the head off. They're freaking HEAVY!

zonie77
05-11-09, 01:03 AM
thanks zonie, the car only has 100,000 and has overheated while I replaced the whole coolant system so i didnt know if all the heat cycles didnt warp or crack the heads or block, I hope not. Doesnt aluminum disperse heat more efficiently than iron or steel, even though its softer could it be more durable during bad conditions?

It's been unusual for the heads to warp. . The Caddy engineers got that part right. If they check flat O would reuse them.

aac123
05-11-09, 11:49 AM
thanks guys, ya i took the dipstick bolt out,

the fsm keeps saying M6 bolts WHERE ARE THEY??????

M11 is the headbolts

aac123
05-11-09, 07:43 PM
well fellas finally got the front heads off still dont know what an M6 bolts any way there was a third bolt in the tensioner area to take out and then with a little prying boom right out it came. Going to start working on the back head tommorow, any tips on how to pull the engine forward. I got a come along but i dont want to break-snap any thing while i move it forward, any things to look out for?

Krashed989
05-11-09, 08:23 PM
Dont do it with a come along. It's Waaaaayyy easier to just loosen the cradle bolts. loosen the back ones a little (take the forward one out of both sides of the back) then just loosen the front bolts. The whole thing will tilt. Just put a jack or some jack stands up front just in case you loosen them a little too much, or just take the two front ones out all the way and adjust the angle with a jack. The bolts should be 18mm.

and wow those intake valves are like super clean, or are those the exhaust valves? it's hard to tell with the small picture.

bigtone
05-12-09, 08:09 AM
I used a comealong hooked to the engine hook on the drivers side to the rad support, but to be clear, I used it only to hold the engine forward as far as I could pull it by hand. You have to be careful not to damage the motor mounts. Actually I only used it on reassembly. That 1/2" or so really made a difference when putting the heater pipes and valve cover on. There should be enough clearance on your 99 to remove the head without moving the engine, although it will be tight removing the valve cover.

aac123
05-12-09, 06:10 PM
thanks for chiming in bigtone, i will try that. I am doing the project like u taking my time and just closing the hood when i get frustrated which helps alot. By the way how is ur caddy doin since the timesert cas i know i cant drill the norms straight leaning over the fender like that so timesert, but man is it wayyyyyy overpriced for a insert kit.

later

bigtone
05-13-09, 07:39 AM
I have been driving it almost daily, and have about 6000 miles on it. It's running great. Temperature holds to a max of about 205 going up hills. No issues at all. I bought a used timesert kit off of ebay, and then you can buy the inserts themselves from the manufacturer. I was planning on selling the kit when I was done, but so far I havent. I keep thinking I would pick up another car that needed the work for cheap.

aac123
05-17-09, 02:27 AM
update so far....thanks for the tip on the cradle bolts really gave me all the room u could need really (still is tight) and took out the 10 head bolts, unhooked sensor on head, took off sprockets. FYI there are 5 10MM bolts connecting the time tensioners and such connected to the block very tricky to get to, have to use a magnet to make sure u dont drop one into the bottom.
Anybody got suggestions how to take off the 2 black pipes running from the water crossover to the heater core hoses do you have to take them off and if so how? nothing in the alldata manual and looks like the bracket is welded to the head
Thanks alot

[NortHStaR]
05-17-09, 03:33 AM
the two brackets are held on by 1 (on each) 10MM? bolt I used a midget gear wrench, a swivel head ratchet may also be able to get in that tight area.

bigtone
05-17-09, 09:43 AM
;1879607']the two brackets are held on by 1 (on each) 10MM? bolt I used a midget gear wrench, a swivel head ratchet may also be able to get in that tight area.

Its alot easier to remove the pipes without the bracket in the way. It does bolt on, I left it off altogether, much easier to installer the pipes.

aac123
05-18-09, 04:36 PM
well almost got the rear head off but it still feel like something is holding it.
Unhooked all the tensioner bolts (5 10MM), the sensor on the left and right, unbolted the water crossover, unbolted the rear flange to exhaust,unbolted the big black bracket with 2 nuts on the head and one bolt on the block>theirs one nut that is holding some electrical wires; does this need to come off as well? Besides last thing mentioned it should come off right? Any tidbits or pointers would be greatly appreciated and thanks alot for the help so far.

Krashed989
05-19-09, 12:59 AM
On the drivers side there is a bracket that goes from the head to the tranny. Did you disconnect that? Look at the base of where the engine lift point is.... On the passenger side there is an extension of the motor mount bracket that has 1 bolt hooking it to the back of the head... I can't think of any more right now.

I wonder if some pics might help?
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c296/Krashed989/100_1374.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c296/Krashed989/100_1375.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c296/Krashed989/100_1376.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c296/Krashed989/100_1374z.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c296/Krashed989/100_1375z.jpg


Sorry I don't have anything really up close right now. I can get some tomorrow though.

aac123
05-19-09, 03:47 AM
ya man this is what i think is still holding the rear head because i can get it way looser on the right side, was wondering if u had a pic of the opposite u just posted. For the other black bracket there is a nut with wires connected to it. Dont knw if its connected to the head or the black bracket thats connected to the head and block(2 nuts on head one bolt in block)
I think what u posted is what was holding the left side down.
will post more tommorow night hopefully with no rear head.

aac123
05-20-09, 01:15 PM
well fellas the rear head was not fun at all.The 3 black wires on the right side i cut cas i tried for 2 hrs to get them off and the gold tensioner on the rear came out. iT HAS NO BOLT on the bottom loooks like it latches maybe somebody knows?are those ground wires for the pcm cas im going to have to reclamp the ends with new clamps
will post pics in a minute

aac123
05-20-09, 01:25 PM
heres some pics what u think about the rear bank
looks kinda bad to me

Krashed989
05-20-09, 01:35 PM
The bolt for that tensioner was supposed to be screwed into the head.... Check to see if if sheared off. Hopefully it didn't fall into the engine. Stick a magnet-on-a-stick down in there to see if you get anything.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c296/Krashed989/100_1395.jpg

aac123
05-20-09, 01:49 PM
ya i got the bolt at the top were it scres into the head
i guess the bottom part just slides in between that bottom tensioner and the chain.Do u know if those wires can be spliced and lengthened, cas i cut a little to much off
Thanks
norms or timesert????????????????

aac123
05-21-09, 01:37 AM
heres some more pics of the rear head and gasket and the 3 wires i cut.
sorry i accidently deleted the other pics on the thread

bigtone
05-21-09, 07:51 AM
I remember those ground wires when I did mine. I had a slim wrench that I managed to hold the back nut with, because the whole stud was turning on me, and I didnt want to break the wires. I did spend some time on that. Hard to tell by the pics, but all I had was one this spot that was steam cleaned between #1 and #3 cylinders. Thats all it took.

tateos
05-21-09, 01:10 PM
I have been reading your post, and while I applaud your determination, I feel bad that you are working so hard to do this with engine and cradle still installed in the car. I would do anything (rent a garage, buy a garage, buy a house with a garage, make friends with someone that has a garage, marry someone that has a garage, anything!) to avoid NOT dropping the cradle. The engine/trans/steering rack was installed in the car as one assembly, and that is how it should come out.

aac123
05-21-09, 07:04 PM
1999 deville need to set timing anybody know a way to do it without buying the 150 dollar tool that locks the flywheel in place? Can i just get a helper to hold something wedged in there so i can turn the crankshat to get it out?


i see tateos were u talked about turning the crank 7 revolutions then it would be lined up. Is there a way i can just turn it so many times to get it to line itself up then line up the 4 cams after the heads are on?

tateos
05-21-09, 08:43 PM
1999 deville need to set timing anybody know a way to do it without buying the 150 dollar tool that locks the flywheel in place? Can i just get a helper to hold something wedged in there so i can turn the crankshat to get it out?


i see tateos were u talked about turning the crank 7 revolutions then it would be lined up. Is there a way i can just turn it so many times to get it to line itself up then line up the 4 cams after the heads are on?

Yes - that is what I did - never locked anything in place to install the cams. I just made sure the crank and balancer dots were adjacent, then the cam marks were at 12:00, and then I was done. I just made sure nothing had shifted once I was done... and double checked and triple checked and also turned the crank by hand, with a breaker bar, to make sure not valves would ever touch...then checked again!

bigtone
05-21-09, 10:30 PM
Like Tateos said above, I stopped my engine at tdc #1 with the cam marks straight up before I took it apart. Locked everything so it wouldnt turn. I took the starter off and fabricated a piece of aluminum to tighten up against the flywheel to keep it from turning. If nothing turns, you really shouldnt have an issue. I also turned mine over by hand just to make sure.

Krashed989
05-21-09, 11:01 PM
Wait, you didn't mark the chain/sprockets?... I'm just saying it would've been a lot easier for you if you did.

It doesn't matter if the chain jumps teeth, since it wasn't marked. Just find TDC for #1. It doesn't matter if the mark on the intermediate sprocket is lined up with the crankshaft sprocket either. They only line up once in like 7 revolutions or so. As long as the crank is at TDC for #1 it's good. A 19mm socket will get you there, just try to keep the chains from falling off the intermediate sprocket. Then make the RE (Right bank Exhaust) and RI (Right bank Intake) marks, also LE and LI marks, so that they are straight up (90 degree angles from the valve cover gasket seating surface). There is a hex on the camshafts which is useful in lining them up. I used an adjustable wrench on them.

Once the chains are on and you think it's timed good, turn the crankshaft over 2 complete revolutions to see if the marks line up again. If they do, then you're all set to put it all back together.

aac123
05-22-09, 02:49 AM
fellas i did mark the cam sprockets to the head but i wasnt at TDC and when itook the first sprocket off i forgot about holding the camshaft so it moved alittle, i tried to move it back in position but i dont trust that.So can i just turn the crankshaft without the heads until i get to TDC by looking at pistons( i think in all the pics i seen 2 pistons were flush up and the rest were all down) then right angle the 4 sprockets 90 degrees to the head with the I and E. Will these set the timing without having to remove the cover and all that.

Krashed989
05-22-09, 05:07 AM
fellas i did mark the cam sprockets to the head but i wasnt at TDC and when itook the first sprocket off i forgot about holding the camshaft so it moved alittle, i tried to move it back in position but i dont trust that.So can i just turn the crankshaft without the heads until i get to TDC by looking at pistons( i think in all the pics i seen 2 pistons were flush up and the rest were all down) then right angle the 4 sprockets 90 degrees to the head with the I and E. Will these set the timing without having to remove the cover and all that.

Yup! :) You only have to look at piston #1 and put it to the top of its travel.

When the crank is at TDC for #1, scratch a line, or draw a line with white out or something, from the harmonic balancer to the timing cover. Use that as your timing mark for the crank.

tateos
05-22-09, 12:59 PM
I think the crankshaft and intermediate idler gears have to have the dots adjacent - that's what the factory manual says to do. Once those marks are adjacent, you just need to have the 4 crank gears with their marks at 12:00 in relation to the cylinder heads and everything will be perfect. Now, if you don't have the timing case cover off, maybe you have to do it like Krashed wrote - maybe that is the same thing, just in different words.

Krashed989
05-22-09, 01:51 PM
Having the intermediate idler mark and the crank mark pointing at each other is only if you took the chain off in between the crank and the idler. If that chain was never taken off, then you shouldn't have any problems with just lining up the crank and the cams. By putting the crank at TDC, you're also lining up that idler.

aac123
05-22-09, 05:50 PM
thanks for the input while im waiting on the parts

SO just.....

turn the crank untill i get TDC by visual

put the 4 cam sprockets on heads with pins 90 degrees to head,I and E pointing up in right spot

bolt down heads install tensioners

then turn 14 revolutions

....and the cams should all be 90 degrees
THEN TIMING IS SET


THANK YOU

Krashed989
05-22-09, 09:42 PM
thanks for the input while im waiting on the parts

SO just.....

turn the crank untill i get TDC by visual

put the 4 cam sprockets on heads with pins 90 degrees to head,I and E pointing up in right spot

bolt down heads install tensioners

then turn 14 revolutions

....and the cams should all be 90 degrees
THEN TIMING IS SET


THANK YOU

Yup!

And you only need to turn the crank 2 revolutions to verify that the marks line up again. You can turn it over 14 times if you want though, if you want to be really sure!

aac123
05-22-09, 11:40 PM
thanks for the double confirmation(dont want to do this again unless its dropping the cradle)

I have read alot and cant recall anybody doing norms in the car only timeserts, I guess because of the drill plate. But norms are cheaper and almost double the size, any opinions????

jeffrsmith
05-22-09, 11:42 PM
You serve yourself well to proceed cautiously. Check and Double Check should be everyones motto when working on timing a NorthStar. If you F*** it up you need to be ready to spend money.

dimone
05-23-09, 11:04 AM
Please don't jump TOO harshly on this question!! Beyond tight workspaces, hard-to-reach bolts, and awkward rear drilling, why is "engine-in-car" so bad? It seems like an irritating option, by some of us don't have the ability to get the body up and engine thru the well. I'm rolling the "in-car" idea around in the back of my mind, but all but a few posters scream "NOOOOOOO!" I'm just wondering why it's so bad. Is it mostly a patience issue?

As always, I appreciate any input.

zonie77
05-23-09, 11:14 AM
Please don't jump TOO harshly on this question!! Beyond tight workspaces, hard-to-reach bolts, and awkward rear drilling, why is "engine-in-car" so bad? It seems like an irritating option, by some of us don't have the ability to get the body up and engine thru the well. I'm rolling the "in-car" idea around in the back of my mind, but all but a few posters scream "NOOOOOOO!" I'm just wondering why it's so bad. Is it mostly a patience issue?

As always, I appreciate any input.

You answered your own question...IRRITATING! You are less likely to finish the job if you make it hard. I really think you do a better job when you make it as easy as possible. Plus, after doing a few, I really think it is faster to drop the cradle.

aac123
05-23-09, 02:03 PM
the rear head sucks while in the car especially the chain tensioners

if ur going to do it in the car make sure u have plenty of time and a spare car to drive

leave the hood latch on so when u get angry u can just shut the hood, go back inside read some more then come back with a cool head

i have pretty small hands and they got all banged up

make sure u have plenty of adapters, swivels, reducers, extension whatever youll need it in the the car but engine out of the car all that wouldnt really be neccesary.

Ask any questions u want about in the car and i will help u if i can. I dont even think I would have started this job if it were not for this forum.
The knowledge archived here is priceless

bigtone
05-23-09, 02:14 PM
Please don't jump TOO harshly on this question!! Beyond tight workspaces, hard-to-reach bolts, and awkward rear drilling, why is "engine-in-car" so bad? It seems like an irritating option, by some of us don't have the ability to get the body up and engine thru the well. I'm rolling the "in-car" idea around in the back of my mind, but all but a few posters scream "NOOOOOOO!" I'm just wondering why it's so bad. Is it mostly a patience issue?

As always, I appreciate any input.

I can answer that from experience, it is a patience issue. If you need to do it quick, then drop the cradle. But I had the time, and I didnt think I had the height in my garage to lift the car to get the engine out from the underneath. You just have to be creative, and do a little at a time, like most big jobs. I used to restore musclecars years ago, and have built a couple custom bikes, so I dont mind a big project.

aac123
05-23-09, 06:40 PM
som hoing to go with TIMESERTS but which ones the regulars or the big-sert ones for second repair will the big-serts have more chance of staying they look almost as big as norms. waitin on opinions before i order
Thanks

jeffrsmith
05-23-09, 08:43 PM
Bigserts are what you use after your Timeserts fail. I would not start with Bigserts, but then again I wouldn't use "serts" to do my repair. I toiled with the issue for many an hour before I decided to go with Norm's. I do not recall finding a single bad post about Norm's but found many regarding the others. If I had it to do again I probably would go with the studs that 97eldo offers - more thread (coarse thread) to engage the block so there is less probability that they will fail.

I am sure that many others will respond likewise.

Good luck,
Jeff

aac123
05-23-09, 10:08 PM
i wish u could use studs but not with the engine in the car its just not enough room

-norms has no drill guide but a tap guide(which i dont have the means to modify)$350

-timeserts has drill alignment plat but no tapguide(which i think the tap will pretty much follow the drilled hole)$450

i think the reason u here more bad about timeserts is in numbers

1000:100 timeserts to norms installed so more chance of failing because more of them are out there, but are there any post about norms failing?There are posts withe timeserts failing?

aac123
05-26-09, 02:30 AM
well after doing ALOT of research i cant find where norns have failed so im going to order the kit today. Also i was looking at the bolt holes on the rear bank and 3 or 4 are filled with coolant.Is this normal with headgasket failure? hope somebody can chime in and say ya that is normal cas it is worrying me. Hope to have it back together by the end of this week. Also i had a bad knock, not at idle only while accelerating and i hope that is not something that is really bad.
Later:hide:

Krashed989
05-26-09, 03:11 AM
Do you have an air compressor? If so, I would put a rubber tipped air gun to the hole and see if it holds pressure. If not then clean the coolant out of the hole and pray... Some blocks have casting defects that let coolant get into places that they are not supposed to be. AJ details some of the ones he's worked with in the sticky thread here "Root cause of Headgasket Failure and a Fix?" (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/133429-root-cause-head-gasket-failure-fix.html)... Honestly I wouldn't know how to fix it if that was the problem. But, I can say that if the coolant continues to get in there where the headbolt is after you do the job, electrolysis will happen which would cause the bolt/insert/threads to corrode.

dwight.j.carter
05-26-09, 07:28 AM
I can only imagine the swearing coming from your house. Did the neighbors call the police for domestic dispute only to find it was with the car ? lol

aac123
05-29-09, 10:35 PM
well i got the norms kit. Got local machine shop to drill and ream a hole in the tap block provided, but i found that free hand worked better because with the tap block it would jump everytime i tried to start the hole. Drilled all 10 holes on left bank.One hole, the upper right corner i was off about 1/16 of the original hole will the head still be able to be installed properley??
HOW MUCH CAN YOU BE OFF???????????

THANKS

Submariner409
05-29-09, 11:57 PM
You cannot be off by more than about .005" max. You have probably ruined the block because 1/16" is about .062", and you'll bend or break the headbolt while torquing it in.

Your only hope to salvage the job now is to remove the engine from the car and install Jake's studs using the drill guide block to get the hole straight and in the correct place before you try to bolt the head on anyway. There is a very good and valid reason for using guide blocks for DIY work: They take the place of a LOT of expensive machine shop boring equipment in a one-off situation.

IF, and only IF you can sit the head on the block and screw an old wire-brushed bolt (the new bolts have thread sealant ??) into the buggered hole by finger pressure only, as a test, you may have got away with murder. Any binding and you're in trouble.

EDIT - I just went back and looked at posts 1 -10. If cylinder 7 was full of coolant and you had a "bad knock while accelerating", you may have a cracked piston or bent rod on top of your other problems.

freedom3
05-30-09, 02:13 AM
Don't let Submariner409 scare you. You did not ruin the block and you will not have any problem at all with the hole being off .062, because the head bolt is plenty long, and there is also play in the head bolt hole in the head itself. So the little bit it may flex will not hurt anything. Head bolts are not hard and brittle, they are tough and flexable and will not break if they bend 062. The worst thing that you can do is try to sraighten the hole by using a drill guide, because you will remove too much material out of the block, and you will end up with very little thread for the insert to grip. If that happens you will be replacing the block for sure.

aac123
06-08-09, 03:00 PM
OK I got the heads on with not that much of a problem, ran new bolt into all 20 holes with finger pressure then 30 ft pounds. To my suprise the buggered holes felt and torqued like all the other holes. 3 passes @60 deg.ea. I thought i could cheat the timing buy just reinstalling the sprockets at 12 o clock with the chains then install silver tensioner guide but i have to relieve the tensioner pad, so im taking off the front cover through the passenger wheel well.

One question: Can you turn the crankshaft by re-installing the bolt after you pull the pulley off. Dont have a J-39946 crankshaft socket, any other way to turn engine with out that 50 $ tool.

Thanks for all the replys, i took a break completley after the buggered holes to debate to finish it.

PS: Whats the best way to lock the flywheel? Im thinkin just take out the starter and get somebody to hold my 2ft screwdriver down there:hmm:

tateos
06-08-09, 03:24 PM
I used a starter bolt, after the started was removed, bolted through the starter opening, through the flywheel, and into the torque converter. to keep the flywheel from turning to unbolt the crankshaft bolt. To turn the crankshaft, yes you can re-install the bolt and use it to turn the crank, or you can use a screwdriver on the flywheel teeth, through the starter opening - very easy to turn there due to the greater mechanical advantage the large gear gives you.

A couple of my holes were drilled a little bit off center, when doing Norm's, and I had no problem at all either.

Krashed989
06-08-09, 03:28 PM
One question: Can you turn the crankshaft by re-installing the bolt after you pull the pulley off. Dont have a J-39946 crankshaft socket, any other way to turn engine with out that 50 $ tool.

Yup, that method works fine. You dont want to turn the crank with the heads on and the chains off. That's a good way to hit valves with pistons.



PS: Whats the best way to lock the flywheel? Im thinkin just take out the starter and get somebody to hold my 2ft screwdriver down there:hmm:


I used a prybar on the flywheel (in the starter hole). It worked fine. You only need to lock it like that when you're torquing down or removing the crankshaft pulley though.

aac123
06-08-09, 03:38 PM
Yup, that method works fine. You dont want to turn the crank with the heads on and the chains off. That's a good way to hit valves with pistons

Thanks guys so will i know if a valve hits a piston ??(sound,etc) the heads are bolted on and pins at 12 o clock so how do i turn the crank 7 times to line up, just install the chains on spockets while i turn. Will that through the cams off?

thanks

aac123
06-09-09, 08:49 AM
Bump

zonie77
06-09-09, 09:30 PM
If you were turning it slowly by hand and had a valve hit a piston there should be no appreciable damage. The key is slowly...

aac123
06-09-09, 10:33 PM
ya i been turning it very slowly and havent moved it much

Took the crankshaft pulley bolt out today not as bad as everybody says i just used my foot and pushed it 2 or 3 times it broke free

But now i cant get the pulley off got a 3 jaw but the bolt is to short has a rod in the kit i could get it on with the rod but when i turned the pulley the whole crank turns. Do i have to lock the flywheel to take the pulley off as well? Any tips for getting the pulley off would be greatly appreciated.

It is taking a long time so far but once i get the timin set i think i can button it all up in 2 days. By the way i have NEVER worked on an engine before is also why its taking a while.

jeffrsmith
06-10-09, 08:44 PM
Your going to need to lock that flywheel somehow. Do you have the starter in? If not you can use a bolt through the starter hole and into a hole in the flexplate to hold it while you apply muscle. You are not going to get the crank pulley off without holding the crank stationary.

aac123
06-10-09, 09:14 PM
thanks man, the starter is out i locked it by having a buddy hold a big screwdriver on the flywheel(thats how i got the bolt out). guess i will try again tommorow, Is it ok for the pulley rod to go into the crankshaft bolt hole?

Krashed989
06-11-09, 03:23 PM
thanks man, the starter is out i locked it by having a buddy hold a big screwdriver on the flywheel(thats how i got the bolt out). guess i will try again tommorow, Is it ok for the pulley rod to go into the crankshaft bolt hole?
That surface in the bolt hole wasn't meant to be used like that and the crankshaft material is pretty soft. I wouldn't do that. In your situation I would put the bolt back in place to where the head is about 1/4 of an inch from the pulley and then use the puller on it.

When you're using the right puller, you have the big round thing over the bolt hole spreading the force over that wide area. With the rod, you might dig in.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c296/Krashed989/100_1392.jpg

aac123
06-13-09, 04:26 AM
ok i finally got the timing set and ready, took off oil pump and all three tensioners, then took the bottom 2 sprockets off put them back on lined like manual says, turned 7 times to make sure was really lined up. Then installed tensioners fully retracted put all 4 sprockets in proper 90 degree position, put chains on, let the tensioners out, took a deep breath and turned 14 revolutions, first time was a little off so redid the cam sprockets, chains and 2 tensioners and turned 14 revolutions. BOOM everything was like it is supposed to be. mine turning an engine over that many times is not fun even with a torque wrench. But timing is set so time to reassemble and fire her up.

any tips on initial startup, i was going to change the oil run it for 15 minutes then drain and put fresh in. Is that the right thing to do?

What about the coolant? Do i just run tap water on first 15 minutes then when i change the oil just pour 3 gallons of fresh coolant into the surge tank. I want to get as much of the old junk out as i can, is it really neccessary to flush or is it the right thing to do just run with water then drain and put new coolant in it. Whats the difference between what i intend on doing and doing a "flush"

Any other tips on starting up after headgasket job would be greatly appreciated, i searched but didnt really come up with specifics.

Thanks to all that reply, couldnt have attemted it without u

jeffrsmith
06-13-09, 12:40 PM
Did you clean out all the coolant from around the cylinders when you had the heads off? If you did I would just fill with coolant and not worry about it, thats what I did with mine and have had no problems at all.

With the oil, since you are changing it and starting with fresh to change it at 15 minute run time is probably a bit wasteful. If you think you have a lot of stuff running around in there you may want to change the filter at 15 mins, I personally would change the filter at 15, and then run it for ~500 miles and then change it.

Did you get the correct torque on the crank bolt? - this is critical as the force from the crank bolt torque is what drives the oil pump.

You will need to prime the oil pump prior to startup - what I did and what other members of the forum have done is to disconnect the coils and turn over without starting. When I did mine I think I cranked the engine for like 15 seconds, left if for 15, then cranked it for 15, etc. Did this for a total of two minutes - re-connected the coils and everything worked great. I did not want to take a chance on burning up the starter running it continuously.

Take your time and take a good look at everything you have touched just to think about what you did and whether you torqued it properly, whether you have reconnected all the wires, did you have any leftover bolts, nuts, washers, etc (shouldn't have any), etc. Sounds very anal - but can save you heartache in the long run.

Good luck, there is not a better feeling of accomplishment than that of turning the key and it starting right up after major work like this.

aac123
06-16-09, 03:17 AM
thanks man and ya i torqued the crankbolt which was not for little boys
37 ft lbs wasnt sh*t but the 120 degrees now that was a mutherf*cker for sure. Had to get some body to hold torque wrench why i pushed with my foot .

When timing is reset like i did 4 cams and 2 sprockets lined up is it ok for the crank to move a little cas when i was putting the pulley on it moved a little.

Shouldnt the timing remain the same becaus chains are all tight and on right sprockets right

just paranoid i guess

thanks. a day or more of button up and i will let u know if i failed or succeded
:hide:

tateos
06-16-09, 12:36 PM
The crank pulley is not indexed, and your timing has not changed.

Tightening my crank pulley bolt 37 ft lbs + 120 degrees was easy - so easy, in fact, that I loosened it and did it again - same result...and no problems with oil pressure or anything else. I think I did put a little light oil on the bolt threads - maybe that is why it was easy? Nothing I had seen or read said whether to lube those threads, so I didn't know if a little light oil was OK, or not. I did put a light coating of oil on the threads, and like I wrote, no problems at all.

Submariner409
06-16-09, 01:59 PM
You probably did nothing wrong, but torque/angular readings are generally assumed to be taken on non-lubricated bolts/nuts/threads. Many assembly instructions caution against lubricating threads prior to final torque, but I have also seen advice on dipping the threads of some head bolts in engine oil. When all else fails, read the instructions.......An e-mail to ARP might be enlightening.

Think about it: If I use EOS, you use cup grease, Joe uses 10W-30, and Mary uses bear grease on a crankshaft cap assembly, whose torque reading is real, given the 4 different lubricants ? Torque does not, in any way, "tighten" a fastener. The required torque stretches the assembly (bolt/stud) primarily to assure even, repeatable, retainer and clamping pressures.

aac123
06-17-09, 11:06 PM
THANKS TO ALL who inputted in this thread, could not have done it without u guys. Like I said befoe I have never worked on an engine before and after studying here for about 4 months and gathering tools and a plan took about 6 weeks to finish. Not bad with doing it in the car, in the driveway and no engine experiance before, i mean i never even changed the oil myself in a car b4. Plus couldnt work on it in rain or during 90 degree heat during the day. So again THANKS for this site and all who helped saved my ass 3-5 thousand $. Heres the lo-down.

Buttoned everything up, ran new oil, oil filter and filled with water, primed it with icm technique then let run for about 15 minutes. Then put new oil, filter, new 100% dexcool red coolant mixed 50% with water and air filter. Cranked right up and took it for a 125 mile test run with WOT alot on highway and uphills, temps never got above 203 degrees.

had low refrig/ac off message so tried to fill with the freon refill kit with gauge, wouldnt take anymore freon after 1 tall can. Message went away but air doesnt blow air threw the vents just the botom at ur feet. Is there air in the system; i did unhook it when doing the headgasket job.

Had P0118 but found that was a sensor on rear head, waiting till morning to plug up as i looked and seen it was unplugged. Thats the only code i got, putting everything back together is really easy i think just plug n play really.

So how many miles will i know the job was a success or is it a success with the 125 mile WOT run. Used norms and felpro bolts and gasket.
Any ideas on the air condithing??? Cant have a caddy without a/c just not right u know.
THANKS AGAIN REALLY ALOT

aac123
06-18-09, 01:07 AM
never mind the ac question found vacum line from passenger side wasnt plugged into line under a line on intake gasket. Now it feels like a caddy, going to try to get that sensor this morning.

Krashed989
06-18-09, 04:21 AM
NICE man! Congrats on fixing your car! You've just put yourself through what many experienced mechanics would deem a total PITA! Hell, many mechanics would try to steer clear of a job like that. And, for you to do this as your first mechanical experience is amazing. It's the equivalent to never seeing water before in your life and just diving into the deep end of the swimming pool; you either pick up fast or you drown.

I think the job was a success if you're driving it like that without problems. :thumbsup:

aac123
06-18-09, 04:33 AM
thanks man i will always be a lurker here and help people when i can like u guys did me and people did u guys,its what makes the internet go-round.
By the way got code cleared up(just plugged up sensor on rear head).

Next on the list is sounds like slight spark detonation upon light acceleration, i think by reading info her its maybe EGR related, but ill make another thread on that one,. It was doing that before the job.

The Information archived here is priceless

Submariner409
06-18-09, 08:54 AM
Spark ping on light acceleration is almost always EGR.

If you did a successful 125 mile drive and WOT runs, you're good to go.

Now clean up the mess and enjoy the car..............:cool:

tateos
06-19-09, 04:41 PM
You probably did nothing wrong, but torque/angular readings are generally assumed to be taken on non-lubricated bolts/nuts/threads. Many assembly instructions caution against lubricating threads prior to final torque, but I have also seen advice on dipping the threads of some head bolts in engine oil. When all else fails, read the instructions.......An e-mail to ARP might be enlightening.

Think about it: If I use EOS, you use cup grease, Joe uses 10W-30, and Mary uses bear grease on a crankshaft cap assembly, whose torque reading is real, given the 4 different lubricants ? Torque does not, in any way, "tighten" a fastener. The required torque stretches the assembly (bolt/stud) primarily to assure even, repeatable, retainer and clamping pressures.

Right, Ranger - I agree - I think that's part of the reason for the angular tightening specs - 120 degrees lubed is the same degree of clamping force/tightness as 120 degrees dry

Akiragrey
06-20-09, 03:30 PM
This has got to be one of the most amazing do-it-yourself stories I have ever read. Rock on! Glad you get to enjoy the car now.

aac123
06-21-09, 05:24 AM
update: 750 miles and runs like a top!

aac123
07-02-09, 12:38 AM
update:2000 miles and holding temps around 200, with a/c on runs about 10 degrees hotter.

I got a question, does anybody know of doing the headgasket job in a seville while the engine is in the car? Is their enough clearance in the back after tilting cradle forward.

I know I know dropping the cradle is easier but im just not comfortable doing that and no garage so............what do ya think?

Krashed989
07-02-09, 12:44 AM
I'm pretty sure the engine bay would be the same configuration and size as the one you just did, so long as it's around the same year.

aac123
08-31-09, 05:41 AM
Update: 9.000 miles and 2 oil changes the deville is still drivin like a boat
with 275 HP in the front. Cant belive these cars can catch second and bark a tire.

Thanks to everybody and NORMS:bows:

osu411yamaha
08-31-09, 06:26 AM
Hey AAC,
Thanks for updating. I have read over this thread and was wondering if they were still holding. I have a 2000 STS with 112k and moving to an apartment with no garage. Your thread gives me hope if my HG were to ever go.... By the way was wondering if you ever heard if this was possible on a Seville without dropping engine? Also was wondering if its possible to do above on a Seville with Jakes kit?
Thanks,
OSU411

aac123
08-31-09, 06:36 AM
whats goin on. Ya man you can do it but cant use jake's kit unless u drop the engine. But Norms is holding for me, if doing it in the car use norms because there pretty beefy. If droping the engine use jakes kit studs is the way to go, but norms works if doing it in the car.

osu411yamaha
08-31-09, 06:52 AM
Thanks for the info and the great thread. It is like its own little story book of you learning as you go. It is definitely a gold mine for us poor folk without a garage!!!!!:worship:

zonie77
09-01-09, 01:26 AM
I want to mention something because it keeps getting repeated and repeated, it's that " I can't drop the cradle cus I don't have a garage" whine.

I NEVER did a Northstar HG job IN...A...GARAGE! Sorry I yelled.:alchi:

osu411yamaha
09-01-09, 02:21 AM
I want to mention something because it keeps getting repeated and repeated, it's that " I can't drop the cradle cus I don't have a garage" whine.

I NEVER did a Northstar HG job IN...A...GARAGE! Sorry I yelled.:alchi:

Oh okay. All I can do is laugh. I live in an apartment complex. Am I supposed to drop my subframe/engine/trans and leave it sitting in the middle of the apartment complex for the days it takes to complete the job? What about others in the same situation? If they do it in the car they can simply close their hood at the end of each day they are working on it......

aac123
09-01-09, 09:59 AM
Oh okay. All I can do is laugh. I live in an apartment complex. Am I supposed to drop my subframe/engine/trans and leave it sitting in the middle of the apartment complex for the days it takes to complete the job? What about others in the same situation? If they do it in the car they can simply close their hood at the end of each day they are working on it......

BINGO just shut the hood, u cant just shut the hood when its jacked up and what happens if it rains for 2 days not good for engine, maybe tarp it up...idk.
In the car is a major PITA, but it is auite possible just not enjoyable.

zonie77
09-01-09, 12:03 PM
Oh okay. All I can do is laugh. I live in an apartment complex. Am I supposed to drop my subframe/engine/trans and leave it sitting in the middle of the apartment complex for the days it takes to complete the job? What about others in the same situation? If they do it in the car they can simply close their hood at the end of each day they are working on it......


Actually most apartment complexes don't allow any work on your car. So it's possible they are going to tell you to stop.

aac123
12-07-09, 09:39 PM
Hello to all, 2 wks ago i was rear ended in my deville by a napa autoparts truck in a 45 mph zone and really messed up the car. So the insurance company said they can fix it for 2850$(ya right) and that the car is worth about 6K.In NC if the damage is 75% of the value then by law the car must be written off as a total loss. So im trying to get another estimate on the damage right now by a GM body shop. I really want them to write off the car so i can buy this 2000 DTS with 186K with blown headgasket.

? 1: Can the 2000 deville HG repair be done in the car?

? 2: How much should I pay the used car lot for the dts they want 3900?




O ya btw i had put almost 10,000 miles on it since I installed norms, dogged the shit out of it before and after the repair and didnt lose a drop of coolant or overheat once so im going with norms again repairing in the car.

tateos
12-07-09, 10:08 PM
Personally, I would pay very little for that 2000 DTS with 186K miles on it and a blown HG - maybe $500, if you're looking for a project. Kelley Blue Book private party price for the Deville DTS (is it actually the DTS, or a lesser DHS or plain old Deville model?) in good condition - not with a blown HG - is $4,725.00.

And BTW, I own a 2,000 Deville DTS with 78K on it, and no blown HG...yet, and I think $4,725.00 sounds like about the right price for my car, if I were selling it. After all, it will be 10 years old in January.

zonie77
12-07-09, 10:57 PM
I agree with Tateos, the real value is about $500. If you really want it I'd consider up to a grand but there's little sense in giving them anywhere near $4000!

aac123
12-07-09, 11:52 PM
Thanks for the replys

ponyboyt
12-08-09, 08:39 AM
4 caddy's this year:

#1 $1150 Canadian: 97 STS 260,000 km'sblown headgaskets both sides, drove the car 30,000+ km's before it was done, replaced engine.

#2 1993 STS $100 scrapped due to city complaints, not much info on it, but it ran.

#3 $500 1995 STS with replaced engine, donated to #1. Ran and drove. 420,000 km's on body, 110,000 on engine.

#4 $700 1998 Deville Concours 240,000 miles. Original purchased for parts (whole front end is brand new) but turns out to be a good runner and is in awesome shape. So far no sign of blown headgaskets, but has suspect material in resevoir. Drove 70 km's home and no overheat. So far total cost to make a daily driver: 700 + $60 in parts. +Tax, e-test and safety.

I would never pay over 1000 with anything blown headgasket. These cars weather very well if taken care of, hell all you gotta do is wash it. There are LOTS around for these prices, i know where there are at least 20 more that can be had under a grand, theres even a couple 2000 year there.

aac123
12-10-09, 09:20 AM
update: The other guys insurance said the damage was 2850 to repair w/salvage parts and the value of the car was 6000$-(99 deville 120,000). In NC the damage must be 75% of the car to write it off. I had it towed to the GM paint and body in town, they tore into it further and discovered that the 2 post looking things that hold the bumber reinforcement bar is toast as well as the bumber bar.

So I asked if the 2 posts were connected to the frame and he said its a uni-body frame and can be repaired, is this true?

What gets me is the value they say the car is...ie: has two small dents on the driver side and driver-side air bag deployed. Damage before the initial accident, so how is a 10 yr old car with dents, air bag out, repaired HG valued at 6000?
Hell I just want the repair check cas these cars come a dime a dozen IF you want to fix them.

Ive been going to physical therapy everyday for 2 weeks and work hasent even been started to repair. Probally wont get the car till next year. The rental is a pontiac grand prix and sucks compaered to a 99 deville.

Thanks for your reply's