: Obama Motors set to kill CTS-V and Corvette?



commander112
04-29-09, 07:11 AM
We all have speculated this but this is the first I have actually read it in an article:
http://autos.aol.com/article/car-news/corvette-demise/20090429001
Bad news for any car guy. Better take good care of this car.

Mark

caddiedrummer
04-29-09, 07:52 AM
This is why I not only bought an 09 V but also an 09 Viper--my firm belief that this is the end of the golden age. I travel to Europe often and my friends there all say "don't let it happen to you" (as they live in cramped housing and stay on waiting lists for med care) .

But, the truth is if Barry and his minnions have their way our grandkids will all be living in German style apartments their entire lives and be taking trains or buses everywhere, or if they are one of the lucky ones, they will have a smart car.

You think I am over-reacting? Did you ever think GM would be owned by the Govt and unions even though the govt said it would not happen? This is all well orchestrated.

NormV
04-29-09, 07:54 AM
Obummer!

ewill3rd
04-29-09, 07:57 AM
Don't fret, he'll tell you soon what you can have instead.

Be careful what you wish for, I can't tell you how many times I said that before election day.
The bed is made people. Get comfy.

LUVMY04V
04-29-09, 08:02 AM
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/209729

CIWS
04-29-09, 08:06 AM
Best line from the article.

"More information will surface, so it is too soon to accurately predict what GM and Chrysler may look like when they emerge from the Obama team's restructuring program."


Neither the current or previous administration put GM and Chrysler in the situations they are in today. They did it to themselves. But like most humans people like to point the finger and blame someone else for their own declining situation.

LUVMY04V
04-29-09, 08:16 AM
Best line from the article.

"More information will surface, so it is too soon to accurately predict what GM and Chrysler may look like when they emerge from the Obama team's restructuring program."


Neither the current or previous administration put GM and Chrysler in the situations they are in today. They did it to themselves. But like most humans people like to point the finger and blame someone else for their own declining situation.:shhh: N0-Bama!

62Jeff
04-29-09, 08:35 AM
I'm sorry but I don't think an auto journalist for AOL sets policy or makes auto manufacturing decisions.

We'll see what really happens.

jvp
04-29-09, 08:42 AM
We all have speculated this but this is the first I have actually read it in an article:

Ugh. The article author is making some assumptions about GM's directions that just aren't true. He's using Pontiac's death as the canary for the Corvette's death (as well as other performance vehicles). He says that Pontiac was:

a concept that seemed to define performance all by itself some decades ago. Now that brand is gone.

The brand isn't gone because of its performance vehicles (which, in and of itself, as a very laughable statement). It's gone because the vehicles it had in its portfolio weren't selling! GM's restructuring document that was released to the Treasury Dept back in February (you all read it, right?) clearly stated that Pontiac's days were numbered, so they could focus on their "core" brands (ie, the brands that actually SELL CARS).

Pontiac's death had nothing to do with the Obama restructuring committee. Pontiac's death had everything to do with GM deciding it had too many brands and too many name plates, and it wisely decided to shed some of them. A move long, LONG overdue.

Don't worry about performance cars. Team Corvette and the rest of the HiPo guys at GM are still working, and still causing trouble. Bet on that.

jas

neuronbob
04-29-09, 10:07 AM
I'm an Obama supporter and disagree that he would get rid of the 'vette or V. He's a car guy, owned a pretty nice 300C as I recall prior to being goaded into buying a hybrid by the rabid treehuggers. All politicians on both sides of the aisle are that way, they bend to the wind, don't trust any of them.

This article is based on assumptions that aren't true about GM anyway, you can't believe everything you read. Pontiac's death has long been rumored for the reasons noted in jvp's post above, and the only role Obama's administration had in it was that it was accelerated.

I, for one, won't particularly miss Pontiac other than that the G8 (the GXP version I also considered purchasing this year) is gone and likely won't be placed in Chevy or elsewhere.

I agree with CIWS....

I do NOT think performance cars are going away, but I DO think they will be harder to justify production for given the new CAFE rules, and will become prohibitively expensive, rare, or maybe both in the not-so-distant future. This is why I bought my V now--I wanted to experience this kind of car before hybrids or hydrogen become the norm.

razl
04-29-09, 10:08 AM
Don't worry about performance cars. Team Corvette and the rest of the HiPo guys at GM are still working, and still causing trouble. Bet on that.

In general I agree with you, but Caddy's V team was disbanded a few months ago. Now, granted, the V hasn't been Caddy's bread and butter, and they're main line of products are good enough to keep selling at their current rate without the V group, but it doesn't bode well for performance related vehicles in general.

I should also note that word around the forums was that the V team wasn't fired as much as disbanded back throughout Caddy/GM. So they appear to have retained the talent. But again, you can't hide the fact that - as of now - there's nothing new-V coming any time soon.

That's probably a better canary than Pontiac.

jvp
04-29-09, 10:22 AM
I should also note that word around the forums was that the V team wasn't fired as much as disbanded back throughout Caddy/GM. So they appear to have retained the talent. But again, you can't hide the fact that - as of now - there's nothing new-V coming any time soon.

That's probably a better canary than Pontiac.

Nah. What GM doesn't have any longer is a centralized group of high performance troublemakers. HPVO was it for a while. Prior to that, there was another group run by Jon Moss and I can't, for the life of me, remember what it was called.

The performance teams come and go within GM. The talent generally doesn't leave, save for the leadership (Moss isn't with GM any longer if I'm not mistaken. Neither is Heinricy). The writing was on the wall that HPVO was a goner LONG before it happened this year. And it was due to tightening CAFE standards, NOT the imminent take-over by the government. Those wheels were in motion last year. Trust me on that one.

And though some small amount of ideas may have been shared between HPVO and Team Corvette, the latter was definitely not connected to the former in any way. And they're continue to innovate and produce better Corvettes.

The face of high performance vehicles will, no doubt, change going forward. Less power and less weight, but (hopefully) the same or better performance. Don't worry. :-)

jas

Krug Ford
04-29-09, 11:35 AM
I heard today that there is a slight chance they won't make the 2010..

vperl
04-29-09, 11:56 AM
figures

Titaniumseeker
04-29-09, 12:00 PM
Ugh. The article author is making some assumptions about GM's directions that just aren't true. He's using Pontiac's death as the canary for the Corvette's death (as well as other performance vehicles). He says that Pontiac was:


The brand isn't gone because of its performance vehicles (which, in and of itself, as a very laughable statement). It's gone because the vehicles it had in its portfolio weren't selling! GM's restructuring document that was released to the Treasury Dept back in February (you all read it, right?) clearly stated that Pontiac's days were numbered, so they could focus on their "core" brands (ie, the brands that actually SELL CARS).

Pontiac's death had nothing to do with the Obama restructuring committee. Pontiac's death had everything to do with GM deciding it had too many brands and too many name plates, and it wisely decided to shed some of them. A move long, LONG overdue.

Don't worry about performance cars. Team Corvette and the rest of the HiPo guys at GM are still working, and still causing trouble. Bet on that.

jas

By far the most accurate and intelligent statement to date. Thank you.:thumbsup:

IMO, Journalists have long lost their integrity and most often present inaccurate articles/publications which are in turn are read by individuals who then see and spread the inaccuracy as truth. Journalist are now in the business of selling not reporting news accurately and/or from an unbiased view.

GM recognized that Pontiac wasn't a profitable division.. They thought they could revive the division with the GTO. Fast car, yes. But styling was not very appealing. They tried again with the G8. Again, too little too late. While the G8 model at the SEMA show was a beast with over 500 HP, it was not a production version. And so goes the story of how the Pontiac division had failed in the syling category which contributed to their poor sales.

1fstkde
04-29-09, 12:40 PM
you got to love it!! Keep the crap plastic piece of crap made american cars that dont sell and no body wants, AND GET RID OF THE ONES THAT ARE TOP PERFOMERS IN THERE CLASS AND PEOPLE LOVE TO BUY!!!!?????? whats wrong with that picture????who the hell here is going to buy one??? sorry guys german here i come!!!!!!!!!!!

jvp
04-29-09, 12:45 PM
you got to love it!! Keep the crap plastic piece of crap made american cars that dont sell and no body wants, AND GET RID OF THE ONES THAT ARE TOP PERFOMERS IN THERE CLASS AND PEOPLE LOVE TO BUY!!!!??????

Wow. Where'd you come from? And what sales numbers are you paying attention to that says Pontiacs are "TOP PERFORMERS" and cars that "PEOPLE LOVE TO BUY?" Reality seems to indicate otherwise, unfortunately.


whats wrong with that picture????who the hell here is going to buy one???

Elaborate please? Wrong with what picture? And who's going to buy one of which, exactly?


sorry guys german here i come!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, if a German vehicle makes you happy, have at it. But keep in mind, you're only furthering our horrendous trade deficit, every single time you buy foreign. And, you're helping to destroy the last real industry this country has.

But don't let that stop ya...

jas

Razorecko
04-29-09, 12:58 PM
another reason i didnt buy foreign. If shit hits the fan full blast i dont want my mercedes or bimmer to get keyed

haterinc
04-29-09, 01:29 PM
the US govt now holds major stake in the GM. GM's #1 goal right now is to avoid bankruptcty... if Uncle Sam and the hippies want more fuel efficeint/ozone friendly cars and GM wants to avoid bankruptcy... it will happen.

from the statement earlier, if hippies can have Obama in a hybrid... why wouldn't he think that is acceptable for everyone else? just my 2 cents but if you look back in the 70s and early 80s when govt came down on the auto industry from leaded to unleaded fuel and the engines in those days Vettes, Porches, and other "sports cars" produced about as much HP as my lawnmower compared to the 60s muscle cars. will those legends die...? who knows, but could they SEVERELY suffer in hp due to restrictions for a decade or so...? quite possibly.

on the other hand... things came back around and more hp started coming back with technology. if we all go electric look at the Tesla Model S... sure all the fun is gone from the motor and rumble... but it is still fairly fast for $55k lol...

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php

so you guys with your 2009s might want to get that bubble enclosure for you cars and see what happens in the next 2 years lmao... ;)

Razorecko
04-29-09, 01:34 PM
damn that pisses me off. I was hoping the uaw would be the majority owner in gm. Now since the gov is the majority this will give the uaw to put in extravagane benefits and all kinds of other goodies for themselves while the majority shareholder....US.....will be paying for it. Now if the uaw was the majority than they would just screw themselvers

haterinc
04-29-09, 01:41 PM
Uncle Sam doesn't have majority ownership yet... but it is headed that way very quickly with GM's proposal


http://www.ecnmag.com/government-and-industry-blog-GM-plan-042709.aspx

NormV
04-29-09, 01:42 PM
Maybe. But when CEO is asked the question of who decides if GM is bankrupt and he answers, "I really don't know...". Notice the republicans are very quiet as they as are packing away the ammo this admin is making loads of. George will said on the Sunday morning talk show that we'll sitting here 100 days into the new republican administration four years from and look back at Obama admin misused tax payer's money in the first 30 days was it's deathblow.

GM's plans were already in place. They are just being pulled ahead 3-4 years. There is only a few auto companys that have not seeked assistance either for their operations or their financial institutions...worldwide!


Norm


Best line from the article.

"More information will surface, so it is too soon to accurately predict what GM and Chrysler may look like when they emerge from the Obama team's restructuring program."


Neither the current or previous administration put GM and Chrysler in the situations they are in today. They did it to themselves. But like most humans people like to point the finger and blame someone else for their own declining situation.

vperl
04-29-09, 02:06 PM
you got to love it!! Keep the crap plastic piece of crap made american cars that dont sell and no body wants, AND GET RID OF THE ONES THAT ARE TOP PERFOMERS IN THERE CLASS AND PEOPLE LOVE TO BUY!!!!?????? whats wrong with that picture????who the hell here is going to buy one??? sorry guys german here i come!!!!!!!!!!!

*****************************

on a slight rumor, you throw the V under the bus....

Do what I did, buy from scott pratt he has them to buy now...

GM-4-LIFE
04-29-09, 02:26 PM
Guys,

I hate to say it and sound negative, but call Scott NOW and get your 2009 V while they are still out there and while he still has them in stock! With how bad GM is performing right now, they may not have a 2010 V and it's not just Obama. He may be a car guy, but he is going to go along with what his cabinet and advisors tell him.

The V-series line is only 5 years old, but the Corvette crowd will straight RIOT if our government forces GM to kill off the Corvette. The Corvette is a legendary American icon with an almost 60 year history. It is our beloved American sports car. If they get rid of the Corvette, I don't know what is going to happen! Who wants to drive boring small econoboxes? I know I don't!

It looks like American luxury will be soon be a thing of the past once the government gets their way. Only ones that will profit are companies like Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes, Audi, BMW and any other foreign luxury make. We are DOOMED!

I want a GM produced V8 car, truck or SUV!!!!! They are simply the best out there these days! It's a damn shame that the ignorant American buying public keeps buying Japanese and German vehicles and the only thing they are doing is causing more damage to their own domestic economy!

SG

neuronbob
04-29-09, 02:33 PM
The V-series line is only 5 years old, but the Corvette crowd will straight RIOT if our government forces GM to kill off the Corvette. The Corvette is a legendary American icon with an almost 60 year history. It is our beloved American sports car. If they get rid of the Corvette, I don't know what is going to happen! Who wants to drive boring small econoboxes? I know I don't!

Hell, I will riot if they try to get rid of the Corvette. This is something that actually defines what an American sports car is. Almost bought a C5 last year myself....

proexpert
04-29-09, 02:33 PM
If I buy now, I'll have to sell my Corvette. If I can just hold out until Feb 2010, I can get the CTS-V. I know it's silly. The wife has a 08 CTS, and we both work at home, so having two Cadillac's and a Corvette in the current environment is, well, okay with me, but not so much her. So I will wait it out and hope for the best.

Florian
04-29-09, 02:34 PM
what a bunch of doomsayers.....sheesh.
The sky isnt falling.


F

Dallara
04-29-09, 02:50 PM
~




what a bunch of doomsayers.....sheesh.

The sky isnt falling.







Oh, yes it is... It started falling last autumn, and took a huge dive the first Tuesday last November.

Hmmmmmm... Let's see?

Chrysler is toast unless it gives the UAW a 55% share of the company, a bunch more ownership to the federal government, is being forced to merge with Fiat, and is in such bad shape its own parent company, Cerebus, refuses to put another dime of its own cash reserves into the company...

GM is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, killing off car lines, getting its CEO canned by the government, is having to borrow mega-billions just to stay open, is shuttering car production lines for what amounts to months, and will be totally run by the federal government by this summer...

Ford is in the best shape, but only because it arranged lines of credit before the financial meltdown started, yet will be asking for government assistance billions within months, if not weeks... And will probably have to drop the Mercury division at least...

Toyota has lost money for the first time in its history and is shutting down production on certain models...

Honda pulls the plug on its F-1 involvement and is drastically reducing production...

I could go on, but you get the idea.

Nah, the sky's not falling. That's already happened. It's landing in pieces around your feet. ;)

Dallara

Luna.
04-29-09, 03:09 PM
Ugh. The article author is making some assumptions about GM's directions that just aren't true. He's using Pontiac's death as the canary for the Corvette's death (as well as other performance vehicles). He says that Pontiac was:


The brand isn't gone because of its performance vehicles (which, in and of itself, as a very laughable statement). It's gone because the vehicles it had in its portfolio weren't selling! GM's restructuring document that was released to the Treasury Dept back in February (you all read it, right?) clearly stated that Pontiac's days were numbered, so they could focus on their "core" brands (ie, the brands that actually SELL CARS).

Pontiac's death had nothing to do with the Obama restructuring committee. Pontiac's death had everything to do with GM deciding it had too many brands and too many name plates, and it wisely decided to shed some of them. A move long, LONG overdue.

Don't worry about performance cars. Team Corvette and the rest of the HiPo guys at GM are still working, and still causing trouble. Bet on that.

jas

Well said jas

Vrocks
04-29-09, 03:15 PM
The V isn't going away for '10, it wouldn't make sense. The car is in demand, fuel prices are reasonable...

vperl
04-29-09, 03:19 PM
And so it goes, many are running for cover, and throwing the V under the bus, Shame on you all.

But, you guys voted for your " car guy ", you have the results, be happy.

go figure

demorgan59
04-29-09, 03:22 PM
another reason i didnt buy foreign. If shit hits the fan full blast i dont want my mercedes or bimmer to get keyed
And WHEN it does, I won't be leaving my fancy CADDY unattended either.

haterinc
04-29-09, 03:32 PM
the car being in demand hardly matters on 5-7k units a year...

JEM
04-29-09, 06:37 PM
Pontiac's problem is not styling, it's image. It cultivated a cheap-high-school-boy-racer-crap image back in the '70s and through the '80s and they haven't been able to shake it. The G8 is a beautiful piece of hardware and a stone bargain.

These days their bread-and-butter models do nothing but poach sales from Chevrolet. The G3, G5, and G6 are bottom-end showroom-filler junk for the dealers. There's no reason GM needs to have THREE brands (Chevy, Saturn, and Pontiac) pushing cheap stuff, one would be enough. 350K units under one brand is better than 400K units under three.

The G8 has been doing adequately considering it's saddled with a defective brand name (hey, I actually talked a BMW 7-series owner into driving one...he loved the car, but wouldn't own a Pontiac) and sold by a less-than-effective dealership network. I still may go out and see what I can get a GXP for.

It would be nice to see the G8 continue under another nameplate; I've long felt the FWD 'Impala' was a piece of crap that didn't deserve to be on the market but it's selling well enough that it'd be unlikely Chevy would unbolt the nameplate and stick it on the G8. Maybe they should do something radical, like sell it as a "Holden Commodore".

Oh, and vperl - I didn't vote for the climate fraudster that's currently occupying the White House, and as a Californian living in just about the most crackpot-Democratic county in the Bay Area I'm about as disenfranchised as you can get.

Razorecko
04-29-09, 06:44 PM
i agree. I had a 97 pontiac gtp...what a total pos

vperl
04-29-09, 07:04 PM
Oh, and vperl - I didn't vote for the climate fraudster that's currently occupying the White House, and as a Californian living in just about the most crackpot-Democratic county in the Bay Area I'm about as disenfranchised as you can get.

*********************************

All the loser californicators moved north into Oregon, and they are running the show now, also, so we both can tell " war stories"
about the leftist herd.

Those that want to throw the V under the bus can go fish elsewhere, the V is a vehicle to remember for many reasons, bet you know the reasons also

haterinc
04-29-09, 07:26 PM
It would be nice to see the G8 continue under another nameplate; I've long felt the FWD 'Impala' was a piece of crap that didn't deserve to be on the market but it's selling well enough that it'd be unlikely Chevy would unbolt the nameplate and stick it on the G8.

completely agreed... going from the last Impala they resurrected to this latest POS is tragic at best

GM-4-LIFE
04-29-09, 07:44 PM
GM has stupid nameplates. The current Impala should be called the Chevy Lumina and the Chevy version of the G8 should be called the Impala SS. Now, how hard was that decision to make?

GM can't take a piece of crap car like the current Impala and put a legendary name like Impala on it! If you are going to release a rental car fleet vehicle, give it a crappy name like the Lumina. GM should re-name the current Impala the Lumina and once the Pontiac brand is gone, GM should re-name the G8, the Impala SS and that would be it! They would sell a ton more Chevy Impala SS vehicles than Pontiac G8s. GM was stupid NOT to bring out the G8 as the new Impala SS in the first place. Now it's just an after thought. People at GM really gotta get on the ball if they want to survive.

All people at GM's upper level management do is make assinine decisions. If GM hired people that love cars, you would see style across all their brands and sales results.

Just my opinion.

SG

JEM
04-29-09, 07:51 PM
GM was stupid NOT to bring out the G8 as the new Impala SS in the first place. Now it's just an after thought. People at GM really gotta get on the ball if they want to survive.

I've argued for a long time that Chevrolet is really two disparate car companies - the rentacars and the big iron. The Korean cars, the Malibu, and current Impala make up one company that's at best competitive at a Kia level, and the 'Vette and the trucks that sell to a largely separate buyer base.

Chevrolet is also, more or less, the strongest brand name GM has.

Had I been running GM a decade or whenever ago, when they decided to fold the Geo name and peddle all the Korean stuff as Chevys, I'd have gone in a very different direction. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter whether you sell the cheap stuff as Saturns, or Pontiacs, but you don't sully the Chevrolet brand.

Of course, outside the US now Chevrolet is slotted in as GM's sub-Opel nameplate too, all over Europe you get Chevrolet/Opel dealers.

AuPanda
04-29-09, 09:04 PM
It doesn't appear that Holden will be exporting cars to the USA anymore either.

"Holden's US parent company General Motors (GM) has decided to kill off the 83-year Pontiac brand, meaning Holden will stop producing cars for North American motorists from 2010."

http://www.coffscoastadvocate.com.au/story/2009/04/29/taxpayers-likely-to-save-holden-jobs/

nc09v2
04-29-09, 09:12 PM
I'm not necessarilly an Obama fan, but placing blame on this administration for GM's mess is grossly unfair.

For those old enough to remember the rustbucket oil burning Chevy Vega, the Cadillac Cimmarron, the horrible quality of the 80's C4 Vettes and Camaros, the Quad 4 engine vibrator, the lackluster (dull) products in the 1990's, abyssmal dealer service and resale value, GM has been shooting itself in the foot forever. I recall GM competing with itself , i.e. the Monte Carlo competing with the Grand Prix AND the Regal across multiple product segments.

Today, GM is betting that a $40K Chevy Volt will save the company when Toyota and Honda are doing their versions for about 55% of the price. A $57,000 Tahoe Hybrid? You gotta be kidding. Ditto for the Vette, great car but it has gotten way overpriced relative to what is out there. An optioned C6 coupe stickers in the mid 60's, verts get into the 70's, Z06 is in the 80's.

GM has alienated so many folks due to bad experiences that their market share has gone from 50% in 1980 to 18% today. Many folks will not even consider a GM product, they have a huge perception problem. I experienced that 1st hand when I bought my V, folks I know well thought I was nuts to get it over a Benz or Beamer, the knowledgable ones point to the reliability issues and resale of the 1st Gen V....they do kind of have a point.

GM needed to get itself in order a long ime ago. While I personally feel very sad for all those loosing their jobs and dealerships, the status quo at GM has been unsustainable for a long time. They will hopefully have a future when it is done. Ditto for Chrysler.

Some of what the Obama people are saying is over the top, but they are posturing and negotiating to get it done. Obama just happened to come on board at crunch time, GM's mess is not his or his people's fault.

I'll get off my soap box.

V-Love
04-30-09, 12:44 AM
Its not his fault but he didn't help by throwing money at it.

NormV
04-30-09, 06:19 AM
It's all politics from here. Every move Obama makes is for votes he's going to need in the future. I don't know about you guys, but I have a hard time finding something the government runs well. I think GM is the next AMTrack!

When you fire the CEO, hand pick half the board, and basically dictate negotiations with creditors, bond holders, and union to the point of gaining half of the companies common shares the government is meddling in American businesses.
Funny no one compares domestic cars from the 80's to the Jap's then!? Jap cars back then were as much a rust bucket as the domestics. :)


Norm

JEM
04-30-09, 01:29 PM
I'm not necessarilly an Obama fan, but placing blame on this administration for GM's mess is grossly unfair.

No, it's not grossly unfair.

First off, yes, GM's problems start about 1972, but my list would be a little different.

That was about the time that GM started to lose the ability to control its labor cost.

GM had also, through the '50s and '60s, abandoned Sloan's model-line pricing structure from the '20s and '30s and started packing all the nameplates together in the middle of the market in pursuit of greater sales volume. At the beginning of the '70s there was still a little differentiation (not enough) between Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, and Cadillac; by the end of the decade there was none.

In doing so, GM was letting some of the most profitable segments in the market get away. GM and Ford squinted at each other across the county, GM built Cadillacs to compete with Lincoln and Ford built Lincolns to compete with Cadillac and the end result was that they handed the high end of the market to the Germans and eventually the Japanese. The '75 Seville was the first crystal-clear signal that GM didn't have a clue what to do about them.

And by the end of the decade GM had thrown virtually the whole company over to wrong-wheel drive, including such embarrassing devices as the Allante and the Reatta. Cadillac and Lincoln were stuck bringing front-drive sporks to a horsepower gunfight. The eternal mystery and missed opportunity of this period, though is on the Ford side, where Ford shipped the two-door Mark VIII - but no sedan - just as Lexus stomped the market with the LS400.

As for the present - the issue with this administration is that they are not interested in doing what's right for the economy or the taxpayers, or even for the future health of GM - it looks to me like their goals have more to do with their own idea of industrial policy and promoting UAW power.

The Tony Show
04-30-09, 01:36 PM
This thread delivers the laughs. 15 people suddenly became experts on what's going to happen to the car business as a whole based on nothing but a spurious prognostication from an AOL article and a rumor that a salesman heard.

:food-snacking:

neuronbob
04-30-09, 01:53 PM
This thread delivers the laughs. 15 people suddenly became experts on what's going to happen to the car business as a whole based on nothing but a spurious prognostication from an AOL article and a rumor that a salesman heard.

:food-snacking:

LOL, so true! And I'll quote myself (even though I'm part of the herd at times):


This article is based on assumptions that aren't true about GM anyway, you can't believe everything you read. Pontiac's death has long been rumored for the reasons noted in jvp's post above, and the only role Obama's administration had in it was that it was accelerated.

aco
04-30-09, 02:09 PM
.... Cadillac and Lincoln were stuck bringing front-drive sporks to a horsepower gunfight. ...

This has to be the best statement in this thread. :thumbsup:

randian
05-03-09, 06:21 PM
Pontiac's problem is not styling, it's image. It cultivated a cheap-high-school-boy-racer-crap image back in the '70s and through the '80s and they haven't been able to shake it. The G8 is a beautiful piece of hardware and a stone bargain.

If it's not styling, then what are the standard cheap plastic cladding, fake hood scoops, and nostril grill doing on the gorgeous Holden? I can't help but wonder at the numbskulls Pontiac has in its focus groups.

LITTLEELVISDAN
05-04-09, 11:00 AM
Going under is not Osamas fault but bailing out GM with Billions of our money to do what? Pay off the Union pension debt GM had. Osama had no intention of saving GM, He was saving his ass by making sure the unions got their money.

So in the end we paid for the unions pensions and GM is still going to have to file bankrup.

JEM
05-05-09, 12:24 AM
If it's not styling, then what are the standard cheap plastic cladding, fake hood scoops, and nostril grill doing on the gorgeous Holden? I can't help but wonder at the numbskulls Pontiac has in its focus groups.

I agree that the Holden is a better looking car than the G8, but not by a lot. But the current generation of HSVs are way too boy-racer.

GM took all kinds of flak for bringing over the clean and pretty Monaro without trashing it up with hood scoops and crap like that, so they went and stuck hood scoops and crap like that on the G8.

Still think the original Monaro in Aussie form, without the Pontiac tack-ons, ranks a 9 on shape and design where, say, a Smart is a 2, a BMW M6 is a 5, and a Ferrari 550/575 is a 10. Every time I see a Ferrari 575M go by my retirement funds tremble in fear.

I'll give the 599 an 8, it's far better in person than in pictures, but it doesn't quite inspire the tension in the briefs that the 550/575 does.