: What is the difference between VIN 9 and VIN Y 4.6L Northstars ?



crthorne
04-28-09, 08:51 PM
what is the difference is one better than the other?

chazglenn3
04-28-09, 09:49 PM
Seriously? :horse:

Ranger
04-28-09, 09:56 PM
25 hp

N*Caddy
04-28-09, 10:00 PM
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5382/dynorun.jpg

iowasevillests
04-28-09, 10:10 PM
Just start reading....tech archives, this section, N* section, everything you can

RDHambrice
04-29-09, 09:26 AM
Hello
Basically, Vin 9s are identified as ETCs while Vin Ys are ESCs. I have a '98 ESC which I love. It is black on black with chrome wheels. Often ESCs are equipped with aluminum wheels. Vin 9's engines are rated 300hp while Vin Y's are 275hp. Both are great engines.
Good Luck,
RDH

ThumperPup
04-29-09, 02:45 PM
i have the vin y in my seville and love it

but what i never understood is how come the vin 9 with more power and performance is cheaper than a vin y
i dont know the extact price but i know i was looking around and a new vin y is like 400 dollars more than the new vin 9 if you where to have to change

is it somthing htat you can swap a vin 9 into a vin y or would there be to mouch to change with that

Ranger
04-29-09, 03:23 PM
The only difference is the intake cam, but it is mated to a different trans (different final drive ratio) and has a different PCM.

crthorne
04-29-09, 05:24 PM
Sweet thank you for the information.

KARAOKE-STEVE
03-24-12, 11:37 AM
The only difference is the intake cam, but it is mated to a different trans (different final drive ratio) and has a different PCM.

Is there a way to switch a VIN "Y" out with a VIN "9", my girlfriend bought a car without me looking at it first (spent nearly her entire income tax refund), the 1997 Caddy is sweet, gold with white leather, 102,000 original, every option but moonroof and everything works, but started running hot the next day after she bought it, I flushed the system, replaced thermastat, and still ran hot, so I took it to a shop and had a comporession test ran, and sure enough was losing a little (she drove over 120 the night before, when she bought it). I found a motor for $300 dollars already out of the old car, but it is a "9" and my mechanic knew right away there was a difference and had me check the VIN before considering. Please give me your expert opinion on how I can fix this problem, we don't have the money to rebuild the head gasket, not to mention that the heads have to be milled and everything, correct?

~~~Steve

Aztec ETC ECS
03-24-12, 12:13 PM
Engine, trans & PCM must match. And if u must put a used motor in, u better know were it came from. Demo first. Not something u wanna do twice.

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Why did they make the LD8 anyway? And why limit it to 110MPH??:hmm:

maeng9981
03-24-12, 02:10 PM
LD8 offers greater torque, and with 3.11:1 final drive, it offers lower cruising RPM. Results: Better gas mileage, less noise - suitable for interstate cruising. It is assumed that interstate cars don't necessarily need continued high speed operation, so LD8 cars usually came with factory S-rated tires, no oil cooler, and soft ride suspensions.

89falcon
03-24-12, 06:37 PM
Is there a way to switch a VIN "Y" out with a VIN "9", my girlfriend bought a car without me looking at it first (spent nearly her entire income tax refund), the 1997 Caddy is sweet, gold with white leather, 102,000 original, every option but moonroof and everything works, but started running hot the next day after she bought it, I flushed the system, replaced thermastat, and still ran hot, so I took it to a shop and had a comporession test ran, and sure enough was losing a little (she drove over 120 the night before, when she bought it). I found a motor for $300 dollars already out of the old car, but it is a "9" and my mechanic knew right away there was a difference and had me check the VIN before considering. Please give me your expert opinion on how I can fix this problem, we don't have the money to rebuild the head gasket, not to mention that the heads have to be milled and everything, correct?

~~~Steve

Steve,

All you have to do is swap the intake cams from your car to the new engine.....really.....that's all it takes (provided the 9 is from the same year).

There can be other small differences to account for....my 97 STS came with an oil cooler, the Y's did not, so swap your non-oil cooler oil filter bracket over if the used engine has the ports for a cooler.

I have read that the 9's had stronger valve springs, but haven't see it in practice...and since you'd be "de-tuning" a vin 9 for your SLS, it wouldn't matter if there was a difference.

Aztec ETC ECS
03-24-12, 09:09 PM
LD8 offers greater torque, and with 3.11:1 final drive, it offers lower cruising RPM. Results: Better gas mileage, less noise - suitable for interstate cruising. It is assumed that interstate cars don't necessarily need continued high speed operation, so LD8 cars usually came with factory S-rated tires, no oil cooler, and soft ride suspensions.
Like I said before, why? I always liked the "9" cars better. Never noticed much difference in ride or noise (not enough to say this sucks) and they go 150. Buy a Hyundai for gas mileage.

maeng9981
03-24-12, 10:01 PM
Like I said before, why? I always liked the "9" cars better. Never noticed much difference in ride or noise (not enough to say this sucks) and they go 150. Buy a Hyundai for gas mileage.

Why not? VIN 9 cars are tuned for sports/spirited driving conditions, and VIN Y cars are tuned for cruising. Two satisfied types of customers with one model type. For example, look at the suspensions. VIN 9 cars generally have FE3 coupled with CVRSS/F55 while VIN Y cars have EF1 and passive suspensions. VIN 9 cars have stiffer settings. VIN Y cars have softer settings for those of whom that are looking for the "Cadillac Ride". Also, what's wrong about offering a good gas mileage in a Cadillac? When you can have a comparable performance and crank up the MPG, then it's catching two birds with one stone.

Sort of like Cadillac offering 3.0 and 3.6 V6 now... except there were no Cadillac Northstars other than 4.6.

Ranger
03-24-12, 10:42 PM
Personally I prefer the LD8 (VIN Y), but that's a personal choice.

Steve, as mentioned you'll have to swap the intake cams, but the biggest concern is that you could end up with the same problem in a month or a year from now. You just don't know what you are getting. It's a crap shoot. Like Dirty Harry said, "Do ya feel lucky"? Personally, I'd never put a junk yard engine in with out inserting it. It's so much easier and cheaper to do while the engine is out. Then again, if you're gonna do that, might just as well fix the one you have.

P.S.
I'm far from an expert.

Aztec ETC ECS
03-25-12, 11:09 AM
Why not? VIN 9 cars are tuned for sports/spirited driving conditions, and VIN Y cars are tuned for cruising. Two satisfied types of customers with one model type. For example, look at the suspensions. VIN 9 cars generally have FE3 coupled with CVRSS/F55 while VIN Y cars have EF1 and passive suspensions. VIN 9 cars have stiffer settings. VIN Y cars have softer settings for those of whom that are looking for the "Cadillac Ride". Also, what's wrong about offering a good gas mileage in a Cadillac? When you can have a comparable performance and crank up the MPG, then it's catching two birds with one stone.

Sort of like Cadillac offering 3.0 and 3.6 V6 now... except there were no Cadillac Northstars other than 4.6.

:whatever: :bs: :rant2: :yawn: :sorry:

Submariner409
03-25-12, 11:54 AM
VIN 9 cars are the performance side of the coin, VIN Y cars are the cruisers. A VIN 9 package will turn about 2,000 rpm at 60 with TCC engaged, while the VIN Y will turn several hundred rpm less. Economy cruise.

Also, see the sticky thread at the top of this threads list - "Northstar swaps ..............................."

Compare the 0 - 60 and quarter mile times. The difference between the engines/final drives is obvious - not night and day, but obvious.

Submariner409
03-25-12, 11:57 AM
except there were no Cadillac Northstars other than 4.6.

Oh, yes there are................Take a look at the 4.4L supercharged Northstars..............

Aztec ETC ECS
03-25-12, 12:42 PM
VIN 9 cars are the performance side of the coin, VIN Y cars are the cruisers. A VIN 9 package will turn about 2,000 rpm at 60 with TCC engaged, while the VIN Y will turn several hundred rpm less. Economy cruise.

Also, see the sticky thread at the top of this threads list - "Northstar swaps ..............................."

Compare the 0 - 60 and quarter mile times. The difference between the engines/final drives is obvious - not night and day, but obvious.
The MPH/RPM chart you listed shows the SLS @ 130MPH. The only way thats's possible is if an STS is pushing it. They shut down @ 110. My whole point. I may or may not take my "9" up to 150 but I can!
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2YsMmedhQ
I'll bet if they put a big sign in the window next to the sticker when it was new that said "THIS CAR SHUTS DOWN AT 110MPH" they wouldn't have sold.

maeng9981
03-25-12, 12:53 PM
:whatever: :bs: :rant2: :yawn: :sorry:

Sorry if it sounded like I was disproving your point. Never intended that way. I thought we were just having an open discussion :D



Oh, yes there are................Take a look at the 4.4L supercharged Northstars..............

Should've mentioned Cadillac FWD. That pretty much leaves the choices to L37 and LD8.

Aztec ETC ECS
03-25-12, 01:02 PM
Sorry if it sounded like I was disproving your point. Never intended that way. I thought we were just having an open discussion :D
No prob. The big BS sign wasn't meant for you. It was meant for Cadillac for making a car that shuts down at 110.

Submariner409
03-25-12, 02:12 PM
The 1998+ SLS PCM can be reflashed to remove the speed limiter. Someone with a Tech-II, pcmcalibrators, maybe even Wester's Garage can do it. There are members posting in here right now that have no speed limiter - myself included. Kicker is, the other programmed tables and curves are still pretty much untouchables. A member is working on it, has been doing so for 5 years, and is barely making progress.

If you could do it, would you remove a member's limiter if the .......Deville........ had a set of old S tires and loose struts ???

mhamilton's speed/rpm tables were contributed to by several members without speed limiters.. GM won't do it, but there are ways............

Aztec ETC ECS
03-25-12, 05:49 PM
So what would the top speed with a 3.11(pardon)diff be w/no limiter?

I never really topped out a N* car(came close), but did 150 plus in my hot rods without v-z rated tires & never saw tire failure. I think you'd have to run Indy to see a problem.

Submariner409
03-25-12, 06:19 PM
I think the 3.11 VIN Y Eldorado or Seville might make it to the high 140's, maybe 150+ given time, space, and a favorable wind. Resistance on these things builds rapidly over 110 mph. Several car tests have posted the Seville as having a 0.31 drag coefficient, 0.36 for the Eldorado, not bad for production passenger cars. The Corvettes run around .26 to .32, but the power/weight ratio is, ummmmmm, a little better.

Anybody with a VIN Y car done speed runs with the limiter removed ?

CadillacLuke24
03-25-12, 07:21 PM
FWIW, the DeVille's CoD is .36.

Bubba68CS
03-25-12, 09:37 PM
Having owned a motorcycle capable of running the quarter mile in the 9's and possessing an electronic speed limiter at 186 mph...I couldn't care less that my Caddy is limited to 110. Riding one of those puts everything into perspective. My Eldorado is a 15 second car with a floaty suspension...its not a sports car...and sure as heck not a sport bike. It is a dang good driver (and has enough power to have a bit of fun).

On the vin 9 vs vin Y front...I actually preferred the Y that I ended up with (surprised me). There wasn't a huge difference...but it was a noticeable improvement in low rpm throttle response on the Y over the 9 (at least the ones I drove). Since that is where I drive 95% of the time...that's where I'd prefer to have the power on a driver like mine. That said, the difference is not nearly enough to be a deciding factor between cars in my opinion.

CadillacLuke24
03-25-12, 11:30 PM
As I've heard it put on here, the VIN Y is for the stoplight set. The VIN 9 is for the long haul speed demons :D