: Programmable Tune or Programmed ECM



1-2-N-V
04-27-09, 02:31 PM
Well i have read that guys are using pre-programmed ECM from W4M and getting 11.9s. I want to buy his tune but i would think that a uploadable programmer like the "Predator" would be better as you can change parameters on the fly as opposed to one set parameter in a an ECM exchange. Suppose you make other mods? This preprogrammed would be obsolete. What do you guys think.

wait4me
04-27-09, 02:42 PM
How is it obsolete? I sent email updates and then you are back to your exact point you need to be at again.

Both the handheld i sell and the ecm i send to you guys are fully adjustable. If you want to make a change to the ecm, all you do is cover shipping.

I never charge for updates on ANY of the ECMS i sell. never have never will... So future mods are no issues.

As for the handhelds, I MAY start charging a small per file fee in the future depending on how many im doing as those take 20 minutes each to modify.

musclesbmf
04-27-09, 02:43 PM
I think you need to do more research. Jesse (wait4me) has put hours upon hours and mile upon miles on his CTS-V to tune it the right way. You get three tunes with his setup, one for more boost which there aren't any pullies avail yet. Plus, with his all he has to do is email you a new tune and upload into the tuner and then into the car. Have you ever owned a Predator and used it? I have and it's not that fun plus they don't even make one for our car.

Just my $.02,
Mark

Kadonny
04-27-09, 04:03 PM
I just got my handheld today Jesse, thanks.

Can I ask a question? Do I need to pull any fuses like the directions say, or just plug it in, select the tune I want and start. I also assume I have to update 2 tunes if I want to do both the ecm and tcm.

Cub Cadet
04-27-09, 04:27 PM
Correct - what is out there is on a handheld and can hold multiple tunes. Then, tunes can be e-mailed for specific mods that are made.
In this day and age, I wish that this could be taken a step further... I wish that we could in turn data log the vehicles, and send back the information to the tuner. The tuner can look at this real world data and modify your specific tune accordingly. That would be pretty sweet.

haterinc
04-27-09, 04:53 PM
i would think a data logger would be out there as i used to have one made by Halo. the 3000GT twin turbo motor wouldn't retard the timing above 14psi. had to keep a close eye on that because of the knock. when i was running 20+psi in that car i had to use a propane injection kit to keep it under control.

http://www.handheldhalo-datalogging.co.uk/

no application for domestic cars but you can see some basic info on it

wait4me
04-27-09, 05:06 PM
We have a datalogging system but they are $400 dollars for this car type. But much more advanced and do a ton of things. When people send me the logs, i can adjust anything i see wrong.

haterinc
04-27-09, 05:21 PM
and there you go! lol

GMX322V S/C
04-29-09, 08:01 PM
So I got my wait4me handheld tuner today (thanks for the super-quick turnaround Jesse); I hooked it up and I see 3 custom tunes:
-Performance
-Max Performance
-Valet Mode

These are different than what CadV and musclesbmf have posted.

Jesse, you told musclesbmf that the difference between performance and max performance was the trans shifts are firmer with max. Is this the same for me? If yes, when I mod my airbox, will I need an updated tune from you or am I good? I'm totally stock right now. How about if I ever add headers and remove the kinks from the exhaust?

Thanks in advance! -MK

Vlakaz
04-30-09, 12:43 AM
So I got my wait4me handheld tuner today (thanks for the super-quick turnaround Jesse); I hooked it up and I see 3 custom tunes:
-Performance
-Max Performance
-Valet Mode

These are different than what CadV and musclesbmf have posted.

Jesse, you told musclesbmf that the difference between performance and max performance was the trans shifts are firmer with max. Is this the same for me? If yes, when I mod my airbox, will I need an updated tune from you or am I good? I'm totally stock right now. How about if I ever add headers and remove the kinks from the exhaust?

Thanks in advance! -MK


Manual or Auto? If Auto, I am curious if the difference between stock tune and the handheld performance tune is noticible on a totally stock car? Odds are I'm not going to be making any other mods for a while, but the handheld Jesse has setup sounds like a great idea for someone not looking to make many mods but still wants that slight edge incase they comeup against another stock V at a light. :)

GMX322V S/C
04-30-09, 02:01 AM
^ Auto. I just installed the max tune today; this thing has such long legs, I haven't had the opportunity to jump on it enough to notice much of a difference--yet. However, my goals are modest: I'm mainly looking for efficiency, so the tune, airbox mod, and maybe headers are about as far as I'm going to go. Any increase in power I find along the way would just be gravy to me.

musclesbmf
04-30-09, 08:25 AM
You need to go find yourself a nice stretch of road and put your foot into it. Make sure you put the auto into sport mode (move shifter to right and leave it there). The car screams. The shifting is vastly improved, the power increase is very noticable. I personally think for the money, this is best mod out there.
For those that are leaving the car stock, people ar dynoing 500+ to the wheels after a tune. This is more than just a "moddest" gain. If this car were NA, we wouldn't be seeing these types of gains unless the orig programming was just way way rich. But being FI, once you get the A/F ratio dialed in and adjust some timing, the gains are wicked.
Also, on a side note, you should be fine after putting on headers or whatever. I'm using the Max tune right now and I have the airbox mod, and just received his exhaust which is going on Saturday. Won't really need another updated tune until the boost gets turned up.

Thanks,
Mark

1-2-N-V
04-30-09, 09:27 AM
Sorry W4m, as i know you are the man here. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I did not say that Predator was better or anything. My boss and my friend uses them for their Mustang Cobra and SRT Jeep. Says they work good. That's all. Lets clarify first. On my Grand National I bought a chip that plugged into my computer (or ECM? if someone can clarify this?) It was a fixed program and i had to buy another if i had made Mods. And who knew if the one i bought was good for the mods i did at that time. Now i was suggesting that a programmable hand held would be better than buying an E prom type chip I guess?? In that it can be updated by email, down loaded to programmer then uploaded to computer. That how it works? I want the programmer. W4M i will buy yours as you have proven your self here. Thanks for any more input as you can see i really just getting my feet wet here. Thanks again.

PS i did not mean to give a thumbs down was an accident. Sorrry

musclesbmf
04-30-09, 10:21 AM
Welcome to the club!!
I had a GN as well with an 8 way adjustable chip that plugged into the ecm and remained there. With the new ECMs of today, you use the OBDII port under the dash and flash the ecm with the new tune. the prgrammer stores the original tune from the ecm in case you want to turn it back to stock for dealer visits etc. When done programming, unplug it and have fun. In conversations with W4M, this programmer is capable of receiving email tune upgrades from him and then into the car.
On my C6 Z06, I had to buy a full copy of LSEdit (not cheap) and then the tune. I did notice now though that one tuner on the corvette forum is now offering the SCT programmer for corvettes now.
Evidently SCT has "cracked" the code of EFI Live and HPTuners so that it can translate those tunes into the "SCT language". Good stuff, because it benefits all of us. So thumbs up to whoever made this discovery.

Thanks,
Mark

Kadonny
04-30-09, 10:34 AM
I just put the "performance" tune on my car. I noticed the shift points changed even in regular drive mode (auto), they really change in sport mode. I have not had a chance to really open it up either, but it does drive better. It downshifts quicker and the overall shifting seems much smoother.

I'll load the max performance some day and see that difference.

Just as a note and a warning for those buying the handheld. There are a few cars out there (including mine) that error when loading the tunes that totally disable the car (wouldn't start, wouldn't let me go back to stock). If this happens, you have to pull fuses from the fusebox and try it again. It eventually worked and this does not happen on all cars, but Jesse did say that it is happening on some cars. They are looking into the fix for it, but for now if I want to change my tune I have to pull the 1-5 BCM fuses to allow it to work. Just a heads up. As a positive to Jesse, the day this happened to me, I got him on the phone right away and he told me how to fix it, props to him! I thought I was going to be stuck that day (did the tune at work) but luckily we worked through it.

GMX322V S/C
04-30-09, 02:33 PM
^ Thanks for the heads-up Kadonny. Fortunately, I've cycled through Performance, Max Performance, and now back to Stock (since I'm taking my car in today for the wheel clicking thing again) without any hiccups. Well, I was a little concerned when after I restored the Stock tune the IP displayed an error, but turning the ignition off and then on cleared it right up.

musclesbmf, yeah, a poster on another forum said he noticed a big punch above 5000 RPM. But in the lower gears, things were already happening, um, very quickly, so I know I've got to get out and let this thing stretch its legs to really appreciate the difference.

jwa999
04-30-09, 03:03 PM
Jesse's tune is amazing. Loaded the Performance, wasn't sure if the Max applied to stock.
I could immediately feel the difference in power. Especially at lower rpms, the car is a whole lot more responsive.
I can now actually leave the car in automatic, even non-sport automatic without the car seeming to struggle at low rpms over a hill. The automatic shifting is also much more responsive, with shifts to a lower gear coming much quicker when requested. The shifts are also more predictable and a whole lot smoother. During cornering and other handling maneuvers, I can now rely on the automatic to keep more power available at any time. And when using manual shifting (basically running at much higher rpms) the car is really now starting to show it's power.
Just this morning I was driving my 2002 911 turbo to work and I noticed the lack of power. Guess now I have to think about spending $2000 to get it re-tuned to give me that extra 70 hp.

And yes, the BCM fuse issue affects my car as well, but Jesse talked me through it very patiently. It is by far the best $400 you can spend on your caddy and is definitely a requirement for all automatics. It's how the car should come from the factory!

Thanks again Jesse for all your hard work!

Hans.

neuronbob
04-30-09, 03:17 PM
Hey guys, I am planning to purchase the handheld and am doing my last bits of due diligence. Any change in mileage with this mod? Is there any rhyme or reason to whom the BCM issue affects (earlier builds, etc--mine is a March 09 build)?

Thanks so much...and if this works as well as the DVD mod I bought from Jesse....well, I'll be a happier V driver than I already am.

Jesse rocks!

Kadonny
04-30-09, 04:00 PM
I just had it out stretching it a bit in sport mode (performance tune) and it is really a much harder pull on heavy acceleration and the gears really hold for some serious power. Nice! The exhaust really starts to growl when the trans holds the gears longer.....very cool. I also noticed the downshifting in auto sport mode while braking, that was cool too.

I'm starting to realize the potential here, awesome.

jwa999
04-30-09, 04:10 PM
Jesse mentioned that it affected the 2nd batch of builds, november/december of last year. Mine is 11/08.

The problem isn't too bad. Go to the fuse box under the hood at the front passengers side (where the red jump connection is).
Open the box, look on the inside of the cover for the 6 BCM fuse locations. 5 are 10A and 1 is 15A.
Use the white clip that is supplied in the fuse box and pull those fuses. Make sure the power in the car is off and you the driver side door open!
Now program the ECU/TCU. I first uploaded the stock, but the programming also first saves the stock. The whole procedure takes about 20-30 minutes, make sure your car battery is fully charged!

You will see alarms flashing on the screen. The car will reset a couple of times.
When it's done, put the fuses back and you're ready to go. Jesse tells me it's really hard to mess up the ECU. After my first failure, the car lost it's ECU information and would not start. It cycled through all errors, check a/c, check stability, etc.
Pulled the fuses, restored back to stock successfully and then re-pogrammed.

I'm not sure if the programmer remembers what was downloaded into the car to protect the saved stock settings from accidentally being overwritten with a tune, so i always restore back to stock before applying a new tune.

Hans.

jwa999
04-30-09, 04:13 PM
I just had it out stretching it a bit in sport mode (performance tune) and it is really a much harder pull on heavy acceleration and the gears really hold for some serious power. Nice! The exhaust really starts to growl when the trans holds the gears longer.....very cool. I also noticed the downshifting in auto sport mode while braking, that was cool too.

I'm starting to realize the potential here, awesome.

Yes, you can now use the manual downshift for braking at low speeds as well. The car used to lurch forward on a downshift. Now it perfectly syncs the revs and immediately starts braking on the engine. I definitely notice better engine braking at higher speeds as well.

Hans.

Kadonny
04-30-09, 04:36 PM
Jesse mentioned that it affected the 2nd batch of builds, november/december of last year. Mine is 11/08.

The problem isn't too bad. Go to the fuse box under the hood at the front passengers side (where the red jump connection is).
Open the box, look on the inside of the cover for the 6 BCM fuse locations. 5 are 10A and 1 is 15A.
Use the white clip that is supplied in the fuse box and pull those fuses. Make sure the power in the car is off and you the driver side door open!
Now program the ECU/TCU. I first uploaded the stock, but the programming also first saves the stock. The whole procedure takes about 20-30 minutes, make sure your car battery is fully charged!

You will see alarms flashing on the screen. The car will reset a couple of times.
When it's done, put the fuses back and you're ready to go. Jesse tells me it's really hard to mess up the ECU. After my first failure, the car lost it's ECU information and would not start. It cycled through all errors, check a/c, check stability, etc.
Pulled the fuses, restored back to stock successfully and then re-pogrammed.

I'm not sure if the programmer remembers what was downloaded into the car to protect the saved stock settings from accidentally being overwritten with a tune, so i always restore back to stock before applying a new tune.

Hans.


I only pulled the first 5 BCM fuses and it still worked, Jesse didn't tell me to pull the 6th. But I was like you, I was shitting bricks because just as you said it was pitching all sorts of service errors on the AC, stabilitrack and others. It was a bit worrisome there for a minute.

wait4me
04-30-09, 04:49 PM
Hans, the performance max tune is made for the stock car also. If it is made for more boost, it will say for more boost. Try the max one, it is alot more fun than the performance one as far as transmission stuff goes.

Vlakaz
04-30-09, 04:55 PM
^ Auto. I just installed the max tune today; this thing has such long legs, I haven't had the opportunity to jump on it enough to notice much of a difference--yet. However, my goals are modest: I'm mainly looking for efficiency, so the tune, airbox mod, and maybe headers are about as far as I'm going to go. Any increase in power I find along the way would just be gravy to me.

I just got mine a few days ago, and I dont' feel that it needs more power, but if a $400 tune that doesn't affect warranty can provide crisper response and any mpg gain that would be great.

Keep an eye on your fuel economy and let us know if you see any difference at all between stock and the tune.

btw... 3rd gear in the auto on the hwy is ridiculous. :)

Vlakaz
04-30-09, 05:01 PM
You need to go find yourself a nice stretch of road and put your foot into it. Make sure you put the auto into sport mode (move shifter to right and leave it there). The car screams. The shifting is vastly improved, the power increase is very noticable. I personally think for the money, this is best mod out there.
For those that are leaving the car stock, people ar dynoing 500+ to the wheels after a tune. This is more than just a "moddest" gain. If this car were NA, we wouldn't be seeing these types of gains unless the orig programming was just way way rich. But being FI, once you get the A/F ratio dialed in and adjust some timing, the gains are wicked.
Also, on a side note, you should be fine after putting on headers or whatever. I'm using the Max tune right now and I have the airbox mod, and just received his exhaust which is going on Saturday. Won't really need another updated tune until the boost gets turned up.

Thanks,
Mark

500+ totally stock just with the handheld is amazing. I have noticed the car feels a little sluggish in D in the Auto. Sport mode makes a big difference, and it sounds like the handheld tune will improve that even further.



Hmm I wonder if Jesse can setup a tune for 94 octane fuel to go along with his standard performance tune? or it really doesn't matter as long as you are above 91 octance.

GMX322V S/C
04-30-09, 07:54 PM
Got back from the dealer, put the max performance tune back in and took her for a "stretch." The first thing that brought a big grin to my face was the 2nd gear scratch with a stiff boot (but nowhere near floored)--nice and crisp, not harsh at all. The rev-matched downshifts in full-auto sport mode under braking is also very cool. I don't know if this was placebo effect, but throttle response while holding gears through some rhythm sections had me whooping out loud--thank goodness for competitive-mode yaw control for this amateur! I also used to get a huge (tm-induced?) flat spot during WOT 3-4 shifts in Normal mode, but during the one opportunity I had today, the shift was, well, like I think it should've been all along--crisp, with no drama.

As far as mileage, it's too early to tell--today's romp would not have provided a good data point (even though I bought the tune for, ahem, efficiency :D)

wait4me
04-30-09, 09:37 PM
Guys for the record, No TM is touched in the tunes. I feel it is needed for the longevity of the transmission to be left alone. IF however someone would want it gone and understands that a FAILURE would be emenant, then i can do it for them.

wait4me
04-30-09, 09:40 PM
I did do alot however in shiftpoints, times, pressures, upshifting, downshifting, on EACH mode the trans is in. So that is why guys are noticing all the bits and pieces. :) Like going on a treasure hunt to find the goodies.. I like the competition mode after the tune as it makes the vehicle perfect now in my eyes.

Uriel
04-30-09, 10:15 PM
Regarding fuses to pull, the SCT Product Instructions for the GM Xcalibrator 2 sez - "on Star Equipped Vehicles: Remove the fuse for the On-Star System before proceeding (located on the fuse panel in the trunk above the battery).

Razorecko
04-30-09, 10:19 PM
Hey Jesse,

What do you adjust for the manual transmission and does TM affect it just as negatively as it would an auto ??

musclesbmf
05-01-09, 12:36 AM
If I understand correctly, there is TM in the ECM and for auto's the TCM. I believe he adjusts the TM in the ecm which retards timing and such during shifts, but nothing in the TCM.

Hey Jesse, I asked you about the removal of TM in the TCM and you told me "NO". Is there a percentage that you can reduce the TM in the tcm? And can you give an estimate of longevity on the Auto if you don't take the car to the auto cross or drag strip?

Thanks,
Mark

lemaman
07-20-09, 01:17 AM
I have a new cts v 2009 and want the best upgrade you have. what do you recommend and how do i get it asap?

lemaman
07-20-09, 01:20 AM
I have a new cts v 2009 and want the best upgrade you have. what do you recommend and how do i get it asap?
lemaman@aol.com

jwa999
07-20-09, 02:32 AM
I have a new cts v 2009 and want the best upgrade you have. what do you recommend and how do i get it asap?

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/171201-w4m-parts-2009-ctsv-list.html

http://www.wait4meperformance.com/