: What Domestic Luxury namplates NEED to do



Sandy
07-11-04, 12:13 PM
What Cadillac needs to do (but, probably will not do!)

1. Bring back the Coupe deVille
2. Keep the name deVille
3. Bring back: - Fleetwood; Eldorado; Sixty Special; Seville.
4. Make the Fleetwood on it's own chassis and make it 225 inches long
5. Make all the rest of the line no longer than 205 inches long
6. Style them simplistic, but with a real look of quality
7. Price them a few hunderd over the most expensive Town Car.
8. Increase the amount of paint colors. From 1960 to 1988 they offered 21 colors a year...now it's like 8 or 9 colors, and all boring.
9. Stop trying to capture BMW/M-B/Lexus/Saab buyers. They AIN'T coming !
10. Appeal to young people by presenting hi quality cars and service and attention to detail. Cars that look exceptional.

Regarding Lincoln:
1. Fire everybody. Nobody has a clue and make & design CARS. You have 2 cars & 3 trucks, and your looking to add.....Trucks ??? Hello, F-O-R-D !!

Regarding Chrysler:
1. Simple. Bring back the Imperial. YOU are the only brand sold that does NOT have a Luxury Car.

Nissan has Infiniti
Honda has Acura
Toyota has Lexus
Volvo has the S80
Volkswagon has the Phaeton
.......and Chrysler brand has the___________ (PT Cruiser ???)

Caddy Man
07-11-04, 02:34 PM
i dont know about you, but i consider a fully loaded 300C to be a luxury car, regardless of the price. and regarding your conditions for cadillac, that might have worked but then, but it does not anymore, cars cant be simplisitic, they need to have syle and cutting edge, the world changes, and those that don't get left behind in the dust. its one of those things you wish didnt have to happen but it does. cadillac has a lot of competition out, and if they dont try to handle MB, bmw, and thse companies they will be left in the dust.

Sandy
07-11-04, 02:48 PM
I guess I was not too good at making myself clear. Yes I totally agree, with cuttiing edge and style! By simplistic, I meant NOT gaudy, like sim-cons and lots of chrome. I think the Cadillac Sixteen is terrific!
The 300C is a NICE car ~ but it's not a luxury car. It's a high performance sporty car that happens to have 4-doors. Last year over 80,000 persons bought a Town Car and over 100,000 bought a deVille or Seville. I doubt if any would have switched their purchase decession to a 300C

Msilva954
07-11-04, 03:16 PM
Lincoln is already on that track......with the Zypher...New continental and supposed new Mark.....and a nice car based Aviator. In the next year or so we will see a slight redesign on the Town Car too.

Sandy
07-11-04, 08:12 PM
I hope not, 'cause then my Townie will look "dated" ~

Msilva954
07-12-04, 09:17 AM
So far what I hear is its official that the new TownCar and LS will be based on the P2 platform......Ford 500. This sucks....I cant imagine a Towncar on a FWD/AWD Volvo platform......maybe Lincoln will have a quick death.

BeelzeBob
07-12-04, 10:04 AM
From what I've heard, Lincoln will have a new car bigger than the Town Car.. Otherwise, I agree that Cadillac needs a big car. A Fleetwood or Sixteen - but not something that costs $80k.. It's got to be in the mid to upper 50s or nobody will buy it - atleast at first..

Either a Coupe DeVille or an Eldorado would be nice.. The only coupe now is the XLR and that's just too expensive - and too small..

RERM
07-12-04, 12:08 PM
From what I've heard, Lincoln will have a new car bigger than the Town Car.. Otherwise, I agree that Cadillac needs a big car. A Fleetwood or Sixteen - but not something that costs $80k.. It's got to be in the mid to upper 50s or nobody will buy it - atleast at first..

Either a Coupe DeVille or an Eldorado would be nice.. The only coupe now is the XLR and that's just too expensive - and too small..



I think if they built the Sixteen they could charge over 100K and people would buy it.

Caddy Man
07-12-04, 12:09 PM
I guess I was not too good at making myself clear. Yes I totally agree, with cuttiing edge and style! By simplistic, I meant NOT gaudy, like sim-cons and lots of chrome. I think the Cadillac Sixteen is terrific!
The 300C is a NICE car ~ but it's not a luxury car. It's a high performance sporty car that happens to have 4-doors. Last year over 80,000 persons bought a Town Car and over 100,000 bought a deVille or Seville. I doubt if any would have switched their purchase decession to a 300C
yea i think i misunderstood ure post, my bad, i agree with you on those points, and yes the Sixteen is just stunning. just wish it would make it into production as a flagship maybe. one can only hope. :)

Sandy
07-12-04, 02:14 PM
There is a huge problem with the Sixteen. That problem is that no matter WHAT price they put on it, I will NOT be able to afford to buy it !! THAT there is a MAJOR defect!
:rant2: :rant2: :rant2: :rant2:

Msilva954
07-12-04, 07:33 PM
I think they should make the Sixteen like the "poormans" Maybach......I mean....if you buy a sixteen only few dealers actully sell them and they have their own personal concierge sp??........for about 100-125k......it would be the ultimate Cadillac Flagship.....any cadillac that ever goes past that price range would be unexceptable in my opinion. Thats cutting it close there....but with a fully customizable car...(paint colors and leather colors) and nice reclining rear chairs with wine coolers and LCD screens, I would say you couldnt beat it.

Sandy
07-12-04, 08:16 PM
Msilva, YOU need to go to Detroit & work for Cadillac! I like it just the way you said! (I still can't afford it...)

Msilva954
07-12-04, 09:12 PM
Thanks alot Sandy...thats the way I see it too..HAHA..I wish. But I agree, even though most of us probably could never afford one new....Its just the image that an American Car company needs...none the less Cadillac.

I mean if it was built correctly it would be a great success sales wise and image wise......a car that price wise competes with V12 BMWs;and V12 Mercedes....but a car on a level that actually competes with Maybach and Rolls Royce....I know for a fact GM could pull something like that off, with those other companies your really paying for a Name Plate.....Caddy really cant match them for their names but thats why you would only pay 100-125k not 250-400k......it really makes sense to me....Why not GM....Ill never know...and its not money because they continue to throw money away at marks like Saturn and Saab.

Ralph
07-13-04, 03:13 AM
I think Cadillac should add a V10 to the mix, because the 2006 M5 has 507 hp! (V10) This will be the most powerful BMW, so I hope Cadillac can hold it's head up high to this.

Ralph
07-13-04, 03:20 AM
Actually, for 2006/7, Lincoln plans to build two new cars based on Fords 500. Here is the mention of it:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7310&sid=173&n=156

Msilva954
07-13-04, 09:28 AM
I imagine it will be the new continental......with AWD standard.

Sandy
07-13-04, 12:55 PM
Lincoln Zephyr. 6 or V-8 RWD or 4x4 $43,000 territory

Msilva954
07-13-04, 04:33 PM
1.Lincoln Zephyr......Standard 3.0 V6 FWD.....230hp-240hp.....V8 is questionable.....in a year or so AWD Duratec 30/35...at 275hp....Mazda 6/Former Ford Futura based chassis.
2.Lincoln Continental........Based on Ford 500....Standard AWD.......V6 275hp......possible V8 by maybe Yamaha......320hp..suiccide doors
3.Lincoln Crossover of Unknown name (not Aviator)......must be bigger then the Aviator because the Aviator will be Mazda 6/Zephyr based. Based on 500/continental....same size as Ford Freestyle though..maybe bigger....with 275hp and Yamaha V8 optional. I dont think this is right......because it would be tooooo close to the Lincoln Aviator...then they have the Navigator so there is no use for this imo.......this may be the new LS also????Very Questionable
4. TownCar will stick around till about 2012 im pretty sure.......Substantial redo will bring along the new 3v 4.6 from the mustang making approx 315hp.....w/maybe the new 6.2/6.0/6.4 (forgot the size) Hurricane V8 engine making approx 400-450hp.
5.Aviator.....Mazda 6 based....275hp....maybe Yamaha sourced V8.

This is my prediction....Im almost 95% sure with the Zephyr...and the Aviator. The Towncar prediction is about 75% correct....other 25% being the Hurricane engine....I think that the Towncar will stay the Flagship over the continental if it stays on BOF construction....because it can hold substancially larger engines from the Ford parts bin. Im maybe 40% sure with the Continental....I think it will replace the LS....as Lincoln most likely will give full ownership usage of the DEW98 platform to Jaguar....its just too expensive to produce. I imagine that the Continental would have AWD standard.......now the 2nd P2 platform is where im really confused????? The first is the Continental or TownCar...(mostlikelycontinental) the second could either be a crossover (which is doubtful because they have the Aviator) or the new LS (which I heard may use a version of the new Mustang Platform) (which in turn is based off of the Dew98 the current LS is on). Im actully really confused....Maybe the 2nd is a crossover...with a third row seat...where the Aviator will be a 2 row only type vehicle (RX330) and the new crossover would be a Chrysler Pacifica type cruiser.??.??

What are your thoughts???

Msilva954
07-13-04, 04:51 PM
After writing all of this I just got another thought.......what would be used if they do plan on doing a Mark IX?????? That adds another scenerio .....P2 for the Continental (LS replacement/Flagship) and P2 for not a Crossover but the new Mark IX...based on a GIANT platform.??????


Im soo confused with the new platform.....I still think that the Towncar is here to stay...but I cant think if it will loose its Flagship standing or will the Continental take over???The Continental will have alot more room inside and in the trunk but on the current P2 wont hold a big engine...therfor the yamaha V8.......while the Towncar can hold up to a V10 3V. So thats where the fate of the LS comes in too....will it be taken over by the continental or the Zephyr??? With the new Duratec35 they will be able to get up to about 280hp....and in 4.0 form up to about 310hp I believe....thats a hell of alot of power out of a Six.

Sandy
07-13-04, 05:37 PM
You need a muscle relaxer, and some sleep (or good rest). Call me in the AM :)

PS/ I have no idea(s) what will or will be with Lincoln. I bought mine simply because it is/was the biggest new car in the world, except for the Maybach, which I did not buy because I didn't like the colors on it. (;Ya..Right ;) )

Msilva954
07-13-04, 11:26 PM
Tell me about it.....relaxin watching the All Star Game and were losing....now im really not relaxed.

fastball
07-18-04, 02:45 AM
What Cadillac needs to do (but, probably will not do!)

1. Bring back the Coupe deVille

Forget it, don't need one


2. Keep the name deVille

People my age (27) of which there's more of than your age (however older) see that as the name of a land yacht or sofa on wheels..... not a car. CTS is crisp, sharp. Letters designations give a more svelte appeal than actual names.


3. Bring back: - Fleetwood; Eldorado; Sixty Special; Seville.

Again, aged nameplates that the demographic Cadillac has set it's eyes on sees as archaic, benign, big, floaty, uninspiring land barges. That look like boxes.


4. Make the Fleetwood on it's own chassis and make it 225 inches long

Again, land yacht. Sofa on wheels. No one wants to drive a boat anymore.


5. Make all the rest of the line no longer than 205 inches long

Well, at least you'll be happy there.



6. Style them simplistic, but with a real look of quality

Simple styling, while it won't piss anyone off, it won't inspire anyone, either. I hated the look of the CTS when it first came out. Now I think it is one of the most crisp, daring, and nicely scuplted cars you can buy. Makes every BMW, MB, and Audi look 20 years old. -- And makes the rest of the old Cadillacs look 50 years old.



7. Price them a few hunderd over the most expensive Town Car.

Does anyone even look at a Ford now?


8. Increase the amount of paint colors. From 1960 to 1988 they offered 21 colors a year...now it's like 8 or 9 colors, and all boring.

True, it would be nice to have your choice of 5 different shades of red, but is it really necessary?



9. Stop trying to capture BMW/M-B/Lexus/Saab buyers. They AIN'T coming !

Check your sales charts...... fall quater of fiscal year '03 Cadillac had their most successfull sales quarter since 1989!!!! There are more MB and BMWs on my local Cadillac used car lots than vice versa. And, Cadillac sold 25,000 '04 CTS models by the end of May..... and their goal was 25k per YEAR!



10. Appeal to young people by presenting hi quality cars and service and attention to detail. Cars that look exceptional.

Which is what they are doing. I love the CTS. I have made up my mind that it will be my next car. It's higher quality than any Cadillac before it. And it looks absolutely stunning. You really haven't been paying attention, have you? You seem to have your blinders on, with tunnel vision waiting for them to bring back your DeVilles and Fleetwoods. Well, GM and Cadillac have moved on in life, and it's time for you to as well.


Regarding Lincoln:
1. Fire everybody. Nobody has a clue and make & design CARS. You have 2 cars & 3 trucks, and your looking to add.....Trucks ??? Hello, F-O-R-D !!

Regarding Chrysler:
1. Simple. Bring back the Imperial. YOU are the only brand sold that does NOT have a Luxury Car.

Lincoln is going to be left in the dust after Cadillac's tranformation is complete..... no, wait, they've already left Lincoln in the dust. No one care about a Ford. They have nothing to go up against the CTS or the STS. And the XLR is so stunning that alone will bring people to Cadillac just for a base CTS!

And Chrysler does have a luxury car.... the 300. You can get it with the Hemi V8 and AWD as well (right up with the STS V8 AWD)

But honestly, Chrysler doesn't need one..... they have Mercedes for that. Face it, Chrysler is enough MB now that they don't need to sell MB class vehicles. It would be sensless for them to do so, sort of like the Grand Marquis and Crown Vic: same car, same price, why be redundant?


Nissan has Infiniti
Honda has Acura
Toyota has Lexus
Volvo has the S80
Volkswagon has the Phaeton
.......and Chrysler brand has the___________ (PT Cruiser ???)

In short, you need to see what GM has been doing lately. They've turned the perverbial new leaf, and it seems you missed it. I know you have sentimental feelings for the old Fleedwoods and Eldorados, but no one wants those kind of cars anymore. Lexus, BMW, and MB have been kicking Cadillac's rear end for years. And GM realized if they don't do something drastic, they were in serious trouble. Trust me, GM did (and is doing) the right thing.

Caddy Man
07-18-04, 11:53 AM
Forget it, don't need one



People my age (27) of which there's more of than your age (however older) see that as the name of a land yacht or sofa on wheels..... not a car. CTS is crisp, sharp. Letters designations give a more svelte appeal than actual names.



Again, aged nameplates that the demographic Cadillac has set it's eyes on sees as archaic, benign, big, floaty, uninspiring land barges. That look like boxes.



Again, land yacht. Sofa on wheels. No one wants to drive a boat anymore.



Well, at least you'll be happy there.




Simple styling, while it won't piss anyone off, it won't inspire anyone, either. I hated the look of the CTS when it first came out. Now I think it is one of the most crisp, daring, and nicely scuplted cars you can buy. Makes every BMW, MB, and Audi look 20 years old. -- And makes the rest of the old Cadillacs look 50 years old.




Does anyone even look at a Ford now?



True, it would be nice to have your choice of 5 different shades of red, but is it really necessary?




Check your sales charts...... fall quater of fiscal year '03 Cadillac had their most successfull sales quarter since 1989!!!! There are more MB and BMWs on my local Cadillac used car lots than vice versa. And, Cadillac sold 25,000 '04 CTS models by the end of May..... and their goal was 25k per YEAR!




Which is what they are doing. I love the CTS. I have made up my mind that it will be my next car. It's higher quality than any Cadillac before it. And it looks absolutely stunning. You really haven't been paying attention, have you? You seem to have your blinders on, with tunnel vision waiting for them to bring back your DeVilles and Fleetwoods. Well, GM and Cadillac have moved on in life, and it's time for you to as well.



Lincoln is going to be left in the dust after Cadillac's tranformation is complete..... no, wait, they've already left Lincoln in the dust. No one care about a Ford. They have nothing to go up against the CTS or the STS. And the XLR is so stunning that alone will bring people to Cadillac just for a base CTS!

And Chrysler does have a luxury car.... the 300. You can get it with the Hemi V8 and AWD as well (right up with the STS V8 AWD)

But honestly, Chrysler doesn't need one..... they have Mercedes for that. Face it, Chrysler is enough MB now that they don't need to sell MB class vehicles. It would be sensless for them to do so, sort of like the Grand Marquis and Crown Vic: same car, same price, why be redundant?



In short, you need to see what GM has been doing lately. They've turned the perverbial new leaf, and it seems you missed it. I know you have sentimental feelings for the old Fleedwoods and Eldorados, but no one wants those kind of cars anymore. Lexus, BMW, and MB have been kicking Cadillac's rear end for years. And GM realized if they don't do something drastic, they were in serious trouble. Trust me, GM did (and is doing) the right thing.
WOW...great response fastball. :thumbsup:

Randy_W
07-18-04, 01:10 PM
Fastball, I'm days short of 52 and I agree with you!! ;)

Brett
07-18-04, 02:04 PM
yep, fastball pretty much hit it on the head. the last thing cadillac needs is to look backwards. screw the names. names dont sell cars. if you called a pinto a corvette would it still inspire people to own it? of course not, so everybody thats on the return to old names(with bad connotations) bandwagon should just get over it.

Brett
07-18-04, 02:09 PM
On the colors subject, how about some new interior colors. i bought a Seville in Dec 00 and my choice was Black, Gray, Tan. I just picked up an SRX for my wife yesterday, our color choices were black, gray, tan. id like to see it more like MB/BMW where you get a choice of 5 or more interiors on some models. and some colors are exclusive to that model. Like maybe some brown interior only for AWD STS's, something to set it apart

RERM
07-18-04, 04:45 PM
Hey Fastball, RIGHT ON!!!

fastball
07-18-04, 07:31 PM
Thanks for the good words, guys. But I think what I said was the reality of the new GM, and specifically the new Cadillac. I read a book not too long ago called The End of Detroit. It was a good read. It was written about 3 years ago, right on the fringes of the transformation of General Motors by Bob Lutz, so they were unclear yet as to what was around the corner.

Basically, the book goes about describing how the big 3 made fantastic cars in the 50's and 60's but failed to recognize and react to the up and comming imports and that whole "import vs domestic" thing. What was also pointed out very clearly is that not only could the imports give people more of what they wanted at competitive prices, but they could do it profitably. GM, Ford, and Chrysler (now DCX) knew what they had to do by the 1980's, but still couldn't bring themselves to make the changes and still keep their shareholders happy.

Enter Robert Lutz. As a former design chief for Chrysler and responsable for their mighty turnaround in the 1990's, he was retired when GM called on him in late 2000 to help them make the big changes. When he stepped in, he got rid (by any way he could, basically) half the design and engineering force at Detroit who were over 50. Call it what you want, but when you have people old enough to remember when front disc brakes were an option desgining your your flagship cars, is there any question as to why they don't interrest younger more intense automotive enthusiasts like myself?

Then he implemented rules like "everyone's idea counts, no matter who you are - even if you wash the dishes. If you have a good idea, we'll listen". Needless to say, some of the old regime were a little angry at his deft and broad changes.

And when all the dust from the house cleaning settled, the plans were set forth to transform the company from the top down. First Cadillac, then Pontiac and Buick, lastly Chevrolet. I tell ya, take a look at what new Pontiac products are comming out. Even ignoring the GTO, you have the all new Grand Pix, G6 replacing the Grand Am, and the new Bonneville GXP. Buick's new LaCrosse. A whole slew of much better executed designs than ever before.

Of course, Cadillac being the flagship nameplate, these cars really shine (CTS, STS, SRX, XLR). Especially the XLR. Cadillac has hit a grandslam having a true 2 seat roadster that not even the best Allante could even come close to.

The only thing I think is going to be rough for a while is folks like Sandy, and I completely understand. To people like him, it's akin to loosing a part of the family. All I can say is that if these changes weren't made, you'd not only loose Cadillac, but GM could have significantly been permanently damaged as a company. The largest company in the world, and barely hanging on by a thread. But thanks to these changes, I don't think that's going to happen now.

BMW should be watching over their shoulder now...... especially with that stupid i-Drive. God I hate that!

Randy_W
07-18-04, 10:50 PM
"When he stepped in, he got rid (by any way he could, basically) half the design and engineering force at Detroit who were over 50. Call it what you want, but when you have people old enough to remember when front disc brakes were an option desgining your your flagship cars, is there any question as to why they don't interrest younger more intense automotive enthusiasts like myself?"

It's not the age of the designer, it's the mind set! If being over 50 disqualified one, then Bob Lutz, himself would be unqualified! Don't get hung up on age, it's just a number! ;)

Sandy
07-18-04, 10:52 PM
I don't wanna shock you, but I read everything you had to say and walked away from it and then returned and re-read it, and walked away a 2nd time, and thought it thru and over, and 'ya know what? You are correct, and I agree with you 100%. But, THAT was not enough. I then had to dig deeper and analize why I trhought the way I did. What led me to those thoughts.

The answer will surprise you, (maybe) ;) The answer is that personally speaking I never really look at foreign cars. Have no interest & would never own one, so when I think cars, I think G.M. & Ford products. Granted, looking at 1/2 the picture and not looking over my shoulder at the competition. Soooo, once I blended in the "competition" as the rest of the world views "it" ~ ~ then I would (of course) have to agree with you.

I really do not think that age has much to do with it. I don't think that you like and/or respect anyone over age 45, just from reading between the lines. You'll be at this age one day, God willing, and then you'll change your mind.

Remember....mine was THE group that proclaimed in the Sixties...NEVER trust ANYONE over 30. ha ha ha!

Regardless, you opened my eyes, as to the why of it. (I'll personally still only buy GM or Ford) - so what they're doing over at the 3-pointed star or the 4 interlocking rings don't much interest me. :) By the way, Town Car sold 81,125 cars in 2003 and only 25% were to fleet accounts or livery, and Cadillac sold 120,000 deVilles, so many people still like the traditional luxury car, especially those who've been in accidents and felt that the large 4,500 pound car protected them.

Time to get my walker, cane and bifocals and hobble out of here :cool:

fastball
07-18-04, 11:36 PM
It's not the age of the designer, it's the mind set! If being over 50 disqualified one, then Bob Lutz, himself would be unqualified! Don't get hung up on age, it's just a number! ;)


My point was that during the initial house cleaning, the people who were over 50 generally had the mindset not to move forward. It wasn't an age thing..... I think I wrote that in a missleading way. If a 26 year old wasn't on the same page, I'm sure he got rid of him too.

And Sandy, I didn't intend to sound like I dissrespect older people. If you took any personal offense, I'm sorry. What I did fully intend to do was to show that Cadillac can no longer afford to try to survive with what you wanted in your list. The reason I brought the age factor in is because the target audience for a Fleetwood is unfortunately fading away. It was only to show that if they kept this as their sole product, Cadillac would die off with their customers. In order to keep things fresh for enough people to be attracted to them, they had to change their target to an audience 20 years or more younger.

Perhaps sales from calendar year '03 could clearify:

Industry Sales - CY 2003

Entry Level Luxury Cars
1) BMW 3 Series - 111,944
2) Mercedes-Benz C Class - 65,982 +3.1%
3) Lexus ES330 - 65,762 -8.0%
4) Acura TL - 56,770 - 26.4%
5) Cadillac CTS - 49,395 +30.1%
6) G35 Sport Sedan - 35,765 +21.0%
7) Volvo S60 - 35,346 -8.3%
8) Saab 9-3 - 34,075 +66.2%
9) Lincoln LS - 33,581 -15.6%
10) G35 Sport Coupe - 28,965 +454.9%
11) Jaguar X-Type - 27,212 -20.5%
12) Chrysler 300M - 24,910 -23%
13) Acura TSX - 18,932
14) Lexus IS300 - 13,559 -33.2%

Mid-Luxury Cars
1) Mercedes-Benz E-Class - 55,683 +30.7%
2) BMW 5-Series - 46,964
3) Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class - 19,230 +11.5%
4) Volvo S80 - 14,650 -4.6%
5) Jaguar S-Type - 11,549 -2.1%
6) Lexus GS300 - 11,228 -24.1%
7) Acura RL - 6,829 -27.3%
8) Infiniti M45 - 4,755
9) Lexus GS430 - 2,078 -15.5%

Luxury Cars
1) Mercedes-Benz S-Class - 22,940 +8.6%
2) BMW 7-Series - 20,473
3) Lexus LS430 - 23,895 -9.0%
4) Lexus SC430 - 10,298 -28.8%
5) Jaguar XJ - 7,160 +9.8%
6) Mercedes-Benz CL-Class - 3,377 -14.2%
7) Jaguar XK - 2,171 -27.4%
8) Infiniti Q45 - 2,440 -34.4%


These numbers were taken from http://www.prnewswire.com/

Funny how you don't see a DeVille or Town Car anywhere, and the only Cadillac that sold enough to make any of the top sellers was, geewhiz, the CTS. :hmm:

I'm curious..... where did you find the DeVille sold 120,000 and the Town Car sold 81,000. These numbers I've listed are the official industry tallies.

Sandy
07-19-04, 07:39 AM
The Town Car figure I got from Ford Motor Company in reply to a letter I sent to them asking them that question, out of curiousity because I bought one. Later, I found the same number in Automotive News, the industry trade paper, which is where I got the number for the 3 deVilles (base, DHS & DTS).
Why this person or persons omitted them from the list you posted is anyones guess. Perhaps it was too much time spent sitting on "floating pillow velour sofa seats" from a 1975 Imperial LeBaron ??

http://imperial.point2this.com/nybml/membercars/matthewwappler/74Imperial10.jpg
:) :) :)