: very little coolant circulation...i hope its not a head gasket



sharpcar69
04-15-09, 01:15 AM
hi eveybody thanks for lookin at my posting i got a 2001 deville and so far this past week i noticed my temp gauge going hot? coolant level was okay.and i noticed again today that it started to run hot and the heater wasnt really working well?since i was kinda stuck in traffic and saw that gauage climed another step i punched gas made my turn temp went bak to normal and heater started to work like it should?since i was traveling i decided to really take a chance and go which i did i must of driven at least 80 miles came back with heater on all the way but noticed tonite coolant is ok but i really dont feel any circulation in upper radiator hose it kinda feels as if its holding pressure is there any info that you guys can give.is there any way to bleed the coolant maybe it has a air pocket.and i recently just bought this cadillac with minor front end damage changed radiator new.changed fans new and they seem to be working.and new condensor as well any info would be appreciated thank you....i hope its not what im hearing...headgasket?

[NortHStaR]
04-15-09, 02:23 AM
Sounds like a mucked up heater core to me, might wanna look into either replacing it or flushing it. If you would like to rule out headgaskets all together, have a test for combustion chamber gas presence in the coolant.

Ranger
04-15-09, 12:10 PM
The system is self purging so there is no need to bleed anything. Do a search for purge line and check it to be sure that it is clear. It is easy to do and has been explained many times. That is the first place to start.

sharpcar69
04-15-09, 12:13 PM
thank you for helping on this one?i rather try flushing heater core on these north stars i know there very delicate. cadillacs have always been a little funny ever since that famous 4.1 but i am a caddy fan.question how would i be able to flush out heater core?thank you for your help i really appreciate it.thank you

Ranger
04-15-09, 12:31 PM
You'll have to remove the supply and return lines. Attach a garden hose to one and turn it on. Then switch and flush it in the other direction.

sharpcar69
04-15-09, 12:44 PM
thank you ranger.you mentioned purge line i notice coolant bottle has two hoses 1 that goes to heater core the other which looks like a 5-16 hose goes on top of intake i knda squeeze this one and dont really feel or hear any difference?even with car off squeeze hoses and see very little movement in coolant bottole?im kinda stummped but im gonna try to flush system and maybe change thermostat to?

Ranger
04-15-09, 02:01 PM
looks like a 5-16 hose goes on top of intake
That's the purge line. Start the car cold and pull the line off of the surge tank. It should spit coolant. If it does quickly plug it back on. If it does not, locate and clear the blockage.

Submariner409
04-15-09, 02:22 PM
sharpcar69, There is no heater hose connected to the surge tank. The upper, small hose is the purge line, the lower, 1", hose is the tank connection to the cooling system. The tank sort of "floats" on the system and allows coolant expansion and contraction. The tank should be half full COLD. No more. The heater lines run from the thermostat housing at the water pump and back to the coolant crossover, water pump intake side.

sharpcar69
04-17-09, 02:41 AM
okay...i flushed coolant checked the hoses etc changed thermostat and its still got no circulation the upper hose is fat.i dissconect the purge hose and very little pressure and some steam.even if accellerate very minimal pressure.a friend of mines connectted hose to the system and blew air thru both sides and nothin then i decided to take thermostat out and still no flow?any ideas any info is gladly appreciated thank you.....

Mark C
04-17-09, 07:40 AM
Your not looking for pressure in the purge line, your looking for flow of coolant. If you don't have water coming out the end of the purge line when you disconnect it from the surge tank then its plugged. Most likely place is the barbed connector on the water pump cover. With the engine off, disconnect the purge line at that end, take a nail, or a peice of weedwacker line and push it into the opening on the barbed fitting until water starts to trickle out. You need to go in about 1 1/2 to 2" to get all the way to the bottom of the fitting. If the purge line is blocked then the water pump will become air bound and you won't circulate any water thru the engine.

Submariner409
04-17-09, 09:55 AM
OK.....Back a couple of years ago there was a problem with a water pump: it had lost the impeller plate over the pump vanes.

Take a look at the pump illustrations in www.rockauto.com - surf to your car, cooling system, and water pump. Click on the little picture or the "!" icon for a bigger pic.

See the plate over the vanes on the impeller ?? If that comes off and does not rotate with the pump, then you have zero water flow: the pump just cavitates.

sharpcar69
04-17-09, 01:32 PM
okay this car is really getting to me...i dissconnected purge at the housing before starting and used a thin nail and slid it in and out very little coolant came out then i started engine and it started to push out some coolant not at first but then it did then i connected the hose back let it idle drove in to work and it started to run hot again.the only thing i can think is that it has blockage some where.and i dont think its the heater core because even without thermostat it has great heat.i saw the pic of waterpump i saw the propeller that it has.im hopeing that the propeller fell off or something.but i dont think either cause theres no rattleing noises. but i guess iam gonna try to swap water pump this week end at my wits end with this problem.

Ranger
04-17-09, 04:39 PM
A water pump failure like that is very rare. Why don't you get a test kit and test the coolant for exhaust gases before throwing parts at it.

A clogged heater core will prevent cabin heat. It won't cause an overheat.

If you removed the purge line and coolant flowed, the pump is fine. Have you checked the belt tensioner?

JimD
04-17-09, 05:54 PM
okay this car is really getting to me...i dissconnected purge at the housing before starting and used a thin nail and slid it in and out very little coolant came out then i started engine and it started to push out some coolant not at first but then it did then i connected the hose back

Does "at the housing" mean you were able to use a thin nail to temporarily(?) allow a little coolant flow through the nipple at the pump housing? If so, I would remove that nipple (it's really a hollow bolt) and investigate why the coolant was not flowing before you used the thin nail. Maybe your thin nail just dislodged a piece of (something) temporarily and the (something) went right back to blocking the flow.

And you did not say you also checked for coolant flow at the other end of the purge line plumbing. Maybe you did see coolant flow there and neglected to mention that fact.

sharpcar69
04-18-09, 08:09 PM
good morning all.thanks again everybody for helping me all ur info is gladdly helpful and appreciated.well another day of drama.....last nite i checked waterpump every thing looked fine in there w.p propeller is on and tite,no build up in there either.i also took off the purge nipple and build up in there either.water pump belt is okay and so is the tensoiner.my bud said lets flush the system...so we did....we left it at idle for abt 30 minutes it ran cooler(one notch under the half point digital dash)we took it out for a spin it went up 2 notches on gauge but came down to the half.and had the off during this whole process.it was circulating i can feel the pressure gushing thru lower hose at upper hose i can feel as well but not like the bottom hose.and i took out thermostat so i would imagine that upper hose should be feeling that high pressure circulation as well but its not any way took out flush refilled with dex....had it running no over heating i was content...very content....but.... yes i said it...but it ran hot this morning on my way to work...and yesterday when we refilled the system and had it running i would feel on the radiator and it wasnt completely hot just in areas...it kinda really feels that it has a huge air pocket im gonns run it a couple of days and do i guess that coolant test that i see is mentioned in all the other forums in here that i have read about.one last attempt that i will try is to install a new thermostat cause its been running without one but i dont think its gonna do the trick.

JimD
04-18-09, 08:25 PM
....one last attempt that i will try is to install a new thermostat cause its been running without one but i dont think its gonna do the trick.

Read the answer to this post from 2006 below. I have X'd out the identity of the respondent but long time members here will recognize his writing style.

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#42 (permalink) 09-06-06, 10:12 PM
xxxxxxxx
Cadillac Forum Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 350


Re: Some N* questions



Quote:
Originally Posted by djb25
Sorry to revive such an old thread, but I noticed
that there was a mention that running a car
without a thermostat will always cause it to
overheat. I've never heard that before, and I'm
not quite sure why this would be the case. Could
someone illuminate this issue for me? Does it have
something to do with the design of the waterpump?

- damion



The Northstar has the thermostat on the water pump
inlet. Most thermostats you are used to on other engines
are on the exit side of the coolant from the engine, not
the water pump inlet side like the Northstar. In
addition, the Northstar has a large coolant bypass
passage to allow coolant to recirculate thru the engine
to minimize hot spots and maximize flow. Only a portion
of the coolant flow goes to the radiator. The thermostat
controls all of this besides just controlling engine
temperature. If you remove the stat and drive without it
the coolant flow will be totally screwed up and very
little will go to the radiator. There is a spring loaded
paddle on the Northstar stat that controls the bypass
flow independent of the thermostat position or coolant
temperture. Without the stat this paddle is missing and
the bypass port is wide open. You do NOT want to run a
Northstar without the stat. It will cause it to run hot
and overheat.

Necrosan
04-19-09, 02:17 AM
Starting to sound like your head gaskets are toast.

Krashed989
04-19-09, 05:28 AM
Read the answer to this post from 2006 below. I have X'd out the identity of the respondent but long time members here will recognize his writing style.

* * * * * * *

#42 (permalink) 09-06-06, 10:12 PM
xxxxxxxx
Cadillac Forum Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 350


Re: Some N* questions



Quote:
Originally Posted by djb25
Sorry to revive such an old thread, but I noticed
that there was a mention that running a car
without a thermostat will always cause it to
overheat. I've never heard that before, and I'm
not quite sure why this would be the case. Could
someone illuminate this issue for me? Does it have
something to do with the design of the waterpump?

- damion



The Northstar has the thermostat on the water pump
inlet. Most thermostats you are used to on other engines
are on the exit side of the coolant from the engine, not
the water pump inlet side like the Northstar. In
addition, the Northstar has a large coolant bypass
passage to allow coolant to recirculate thru the engine
to minimize hot spots and maximize flow. Only a portion
of the coolant flow goes to the radiator. The thermostat
controls all of this besides just controlling engine
temperature. If you remove the stat and drive without it
the coolant flow will be totally screwed up and very
little will go to the radiator. There is a spring loaded
paddle on the Northstar stat that controls the bypass
flow independent of the thermostat position or coolant
temperture. Without the stat this paddle is missing and
the bypass port is wide open. You do NOT want to run a
Northstar without the stat. It will cause it to run hot
and overheat.

Those are great words from the guru himself. Did you log them or something?


I would still get an exhaust gas byproducts test done if I was in the OP's shoes.

sharpcar69
04-22-09, 02:24 PM
thank you for the info guys.thank you for helping me out.thak you for going to the archived for info but yeah i said again i put thermostat.and it still runs hot i never really leave it fully overheat but it does pass the middle.if i turn on heat it seems to control itsself.but what i did notice was at times with heat on its like a oven then all of the sudden it gets cool and i hear somthing in dash open or close then again the noise and it starts giveing out that heat.i noticed that this morning.im gonna have the antifreeze test done in maybe a week cause i want to get a accurate test result but its not spitting out coolant there are no air bubbles in coolant jar.i think pretty soon this one is gonna get a for sale sign......any info is gladly appreciated and a specail thanks to those that have tried to help....