: why didnt gm recall northstar engines for head gasket?



Talamant3z
04-14-09, 09:34 PM
just wondering if they had alot of issues of overheating why didnt gm recall them

ewill3rd
04-14-09, 09:51 PM
The same reason every other carmaker on Earth doesn't recall their cars for "common problems".

Talamant3z
04-14-09, 10:09 PM
The same reason every other carmaker on Earth doesn't recall their cars for "common problems".

how is hg a common problem? i never had a car where i had to worry about it over heating

Ranger
04-14-09, 10:10 PM
1. It is not safety related.
2. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

SanDiegoServer
04-14-09, 10:11 PM
I agree this should be a recall, but it would cost them a lot of money. I would love to start a class action lawsuit, but don't really have the means/know how.

Talamant3z
04-14-09, 10:19 PM
1. It is not safety related.
2. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

so as long as if its not safety then they dont have to recall? thats messed up

dkozloski
04-14-09, 10:28 PM
Recalls originate with the NHTSA for safety issues. The only squawk that an owner would have with Cadillac is if they refused to fix it while it was still under warranty then it would be a civil dispute. You can bet that there has been more than one shyster lawyer get bit by head gasket issues and none has yet had the guts to try and sue GM over it.

97EldoCoupe
04-15-09, 12:05 AM
OK:

1. HGs fail on other cars. If your car lasts 5 years on the factory HGs, in all honesty that's not so bad. Most N*s are lasting 8-10 years on the originals.
2. Let's all sue GM, this way we can make sure more Americans and Canadians lose their jobs by causing GM to fall apart even sooner.
3. This is becoming common because all of these cars are reaching that age at the same time. The problem is repairable. That's the main thing.

So when should a HG fail? Never? That would be nice. But in the real world, it just doesn't always work that way. A blown HG doens't mean the car is toast, it just means that you need to get it fixed. Fix it and you'll get another 8-10 years out of the car. So even at $3500 is this really so bad, to be able to drive a Caddy for another 8-10 years?

I don't believe in suing for everything. GM did a pretty good job at designing these engines, head bolts aside.

[NortHStaR]
04-15-09, 04:01 AM
Im with Jake on this one, I mean when does the HG typically blow on the northstar? around 100k miles so that means for the average driver about 10 years after the vehicles purchase that's pretty damn good, I mean instead of focusing on the bad lets look at the good for a second.

We never really hear about bottom end problems with the n*,
When the motor is pulled apart you see original cylnder honing marks and the motor has an all around clean interior even after 100k+ miles of use,
The heads rarely warp or crack same goes for the block,
The motor does very well on gas considering its size,
Wonderful stock preformance,
The 4t80-e doesn't give major problems

The list goes on, so instead of b!tch!ng about how bad the head gaskets are, enjoy the car until it happens when it does roll up your sleaves and use Jakes stud kit and get some sence of accomplishment outta the deal or if your not a wrencher truck it up to Jake and have him do the work, the car will be good to go and you will get at the very least another 10 years out of it.

*steps off of soap box*
Thank you for listening to my rant.

ewill3rd
04-15-09, 07:32 AM
When does the responsibility of ownership begin?
Cadillac already gives you a better warranty than almost any other manufacturer. (at least a few years ago this was true)
So your 12 year old car with 125,000 miles on it pulls a bolt and Cadillac should pay????
There are a lot of car companies with worse head gasket issues than Cadillac I can assure you.
I used to do Chrysler 2.2 head gaskets with a lot less miles as if they were free. Ford has huge head gasket problems on some of their V8's and their techs get hosed doing the repairs.

All this class action recall crying makes me sick.
Welcome to America. Way to set an example for the world.
:lol:
No wonder all the other countries think we are jerks.

97EldoCoupe
04-15-09, 08:43 AM
Well said, Ewill.:thumbsup:

SouthernCountry
04-15-09, 09:49 AM
I agree. I had a 98 Deville a couple years ago and mine went out at about 125K. Wear and tear. So I had a choice fix it or upgrade. I chose upgrade. Just like oil changes you know eventually that its gonna come. On my 3rd Caddy and I'm aware of the costs. Even though it's expensive I still feel I'm getting bang for my buck.

Hey Ewill. I stay in Dumfries. Just noticed you're in Alexandria. I got a question. I just got my car back in October and I noticed that they had 2 recalls on the 06 dts. How would I know if mine was taken in by the previous owner?

Submariner409
04-15-09, 10:39 AM
Have a GM dealer run the car's VIN through the GM VIS system. You'll get a readout of all GM recall and warranty work as well as some normal service info. You might find a 1" x 2" campaign sticker or two on a conspicuous place on the engine.

SouthernCountry
04-16-09, 10:01 AM
I went to the local Chevy dealer and he ran my vin. Looks like I just need to get the wiper thing done. He said only the Caddy dealer could do it so looks like I will be driving to Alexandria for that. Here's a question. Do the warranties carry over from the previous owner or once they sell it again it has to be renewed by the next owner?

ewill3rd
04-16-09, 10:20 AM
PM me the last 8 and I'll check it in the system.
Otherwise bring it by sometime for service. Our advisors run the VIN every time the car comes in for anything to make sure there are no open recalls.
If they miss it and I get the ticket I always recheck.
;)

Destroyer
04-17-09, 12:53 AM
Looks like y'all convinced yourselves that the HG problem is "ok" and acceptable. Good for you because you have now made the problem non-existent. It's a "normal" thing now that should be expected from cars that are 10 years old with over 60k or so miles. GM didn't screw up, all the mechanics and ex owners are wrong. Cadillac still builds fine cars!:cool:

dkozloski
04-17-09, 01:00 AM
Looks like y'all convinced yourselves that the HG problem is "ok" and acceptable. Good for you because you have now made the problem non-existent. It's a "normal" thing now that should be expected from cars that are 10 years old with over 60k or so miles. GM didn't screw up, all the mechanics and ex owners are wrong. Cadillac still builds fine cars!:cool:
And Destroyer is still a sore loser.

97EldoCoupe
04-17-09, 01:36 AM
Yes Destroyer, bad HGs are acceptable from an aluminum engine, in my opinion, at a certain age. Stripped head bolt holes AREN'T. But it's something we have to live with and repair as necessary. It's just not right throwing the cars away because of one manufacturing defect. I can't stand to see beautiful Cadillacs go in a crusher because of a repairable problem. A $50,000 car, fixable in 2-3 days work that would be good to go for years to come, thrown away instead. That just isn't right. A lot of beautiful design work and engineering excellence went into these cars.

Rodya234
04-17-09, 01:46 AM
Cadillac still builds fine cars!:cool:

I think that's the first correct sentence I've ever seen you type. :rolleyes:

ewill3rd
04-17-09, 08:29 AM
I don't remember saying it was "fine".
Things break, you fix them or you don't.
Pretty simple concept to me.

Are you fully responsible for everything you have ever built in your life?
(sorry, hypothetical question, not trying to make it personal, honestly)

AJxtcman
04-17-09, 09:32 AM
The Head Gaskets are not the problem!

Example: I have a 09 XLR with a belt chirp. I clean it of per Service Information (SI). The noise is gone, but I saw signs of "White Lithium Grease" sprayed on the belts. I recheck it the next morning and it barely chipped a few times, but the P/S pump was growling and I had never heard it before.
Everyone has been saying put a belt on it. It is a New car with NO miles on it.
I run the car and clean the belt scrubbing both sides. The P/S noise goes away in a rather short time.
I shut the car off and the P/S fluid spews all over the BELT!

I could have put 10 belts on and they all would have chirped. Was the belt the issue? NO WAY!
Air in the P/S system was. Now why was the air in the system? Residual or a bad pump?

So Head Gaskets, Block, Bad Castings, Poor Choice of Thread Pitch, Dex-Cool, Lack of Maintenance, Coolant Level Low, Outside Cold Temperatures, I have more?

97EldoCoupe
04-17-09, 01:45 PM
AJ you're exactly right- but the head gaskets ARE part of the problem. Only a portion of the problem. Everything you mentioned contributes to the notorious HG problem. It's never just one fault. It's a combination of these all. You and I both know this- it's just that the majority of Cadillac owners who've bought a used Northstar powered car won't know all of this. They blame one simple thing- headgaskets. If the head gaskets blow on 90% of the older Cadillacs, everyone thinks the cars are junk. No, they are not.

On my vacation which is coming very soon I will be spending a lot of time working (???) on my website and there will be a page dedicated to explaining the cause and fix of the Northstar HG issue. AJ I want you to be a part of this- the full, in-depth explanation. Causes, repair methods, preventative measures one can take, etc. I don't know how many Northstars you've worked on but likely a lot more than I have.

Destroyer
04-18-09, 01:16 AM
Yes Destroyer, bad HGs are acceptable from an aluminum engine, in my opinion, at a certain age. Stripped head bolt holes AREN'T. But it's something we have to live with and repair as necessary. It's just not right throwing the cars away because of one manufacturing defect. I can't stand to see beautiful Cadillacs go in a crusher because of a repairable problem. A $50,000 car, fixable in 2-3 days work that would be good to go for years to come, thrown away instead. That just isn't right. A lot of beautiful design work and engineering excellence went into these cars.All cars have "repairable problems". It's just a matter if it's worth the repair or not. I agree with you about the comment on bad HG's being acceptible but stripped head bolt holes not being acceptable. I'd like to add that overly cramped working quarters in these cars is not acceptable either. Looks are subjective but "engineering excellence" is a bit far fetched.

bajarails
04-18-09, 05:01 PM
How much did GM save by not using inserts and studs on the Northstar engine? I see a lot of expensive stuff on the car in other places.

dkozloski
04-19-09, 04:21 PM
Bbob(GM engineer) said they didn't use studs at the factory because they presented problems for automated assembly getting both the gaskets and the heads over them. They also were unable to get the kind of stretch characteristics for heat expansion that they were looking for.

bajarails
04-21-09, 09:42 PM
But heat expansion is a function of diameter and length. Did they want to use an existing engine assembly plant, one that couldn't be changed to use studs?

Aron9000
04-21-09, 09:54 PM
So did GM fix the issue on the RWD Northstars or on the 06+ DTS?

ryannel2003
04-21-09, 11:16 PM
I don't think the Northstar used in the '06+ DTS is any different from the one that was revised in 2004. However I believe the problems with the RWD are completely nonexistant, though only time will tell if they hold up or not.

dkozloski
04-21-09, 11:34 PM
But heat expansion is a function of diameter and length. Did they want to use an existing engine assembly plant, one that couldn't be changed to use studs?
The problem was getting the correct amount of spring in the studs to compensate for the expansion of the aluminum head and block. The Northstar equipment line was designed from the start for capscrews for the heads.

mike sts
04-23-09, 11:04 PM
used to be that people were happy to get 100000 miles out of a vehicle 150000 was great. The japanese auto makers have now set the bar at 200000 plus. Quality is always a moving target as you improve so does your competition. Having a reputation of long term reliabiltiy pushes resale value up. my 1994 sts cracked 2 heads at 50000 miles, they put a new engine in under warranty. The second engine went 90000 miles before its oill leak and fouling of plugs sent it to the junk yard, its trade in value was 500 dollars with 150000 miles on it. I really want to see our american car companies prove to the world we once again can set the standard of building the highest quality cars. Since 16 years old I have drove GM. I am reading a lot of good things about their new vehicles in the pipeline, I hope they can pull it together to bring these cars to market. Just my 2 cents

bacardi
04-25-09, 08:27 AM
Usually, recalls only cover dangerous items...It's extremely unfortunate that they did not use inserts...

97EldoCoupe
04-26-09, 10:00 AM
It's a bad idea using inserts if the aluminum is 100% good. And it was, the day the engine left the factory. Inserts aren't the answer to the problem. Cast in place steel inserts would have been a better approach.

bajarails
04-29-09, 02:16 PM
VW in the later 1600 cc engines necked down their head/block bolts (studs) to provide more "spring".

Threading the head bolts into aluminum so that you have to turn them to torque them makes them less reliable. If they had used studs to start with they would have been better off, especially with more thread length and courser threads.

zonie77
04-30-09, 02:45 AM
I will tell this story again...(sorry)...a few years ago I walked in on a group at work talking cars and specifically head gaskets. I asked if they were talking Caddy's, they said in one voice "Caddy's have HG problems too !?!?!?"

I still say the biggest problem is the mfg's not making customers aware of coolant change. I'm sure they don't want to scare off customers with more maintenance but I think a lot ( definitely not all ) of the failures would not have happened with timely coolant changes.

tateos
04-30-09, 06:05 PM
Yes Destroyer, bad HGs are acceptable from an aluminum engine, in my opinion, at a certain age. Stripped head bolt holes AREN'T. But it's something we have to live with and repair as necessary. It's just not right throwing the cars away because of one manufacturing defect. I can't stand to see beautiful Cadillacs go in a crusher because of a repairable problem. A $50,000 car, fixable in 2-3 days work that would be good to go for years to come, thrown away instead. That just isn't right. A lot of beautiful design work and engineering excellence went into these cars.

Jake - you said it perfectly!

OIlman883
07-23-10, 08:55 AM
DISAPOINTED TOO. Yes I dearly loved all my past 7 cadillacs. I am so disapointed in the HG problem. For the first time in my car buying career, I think I will have to consider buying a different car now. Maybe if I buy a 1 to 2 yr old Caddy, and get rid of it before the warranty goes out. Its sad that the HG problem is either a 24 hour replacement with used/new engine or 38 hour overhall. No economist would recommend overhauling or replacing a northstar. Its really sad how those lexus cars and all dont have the problem. I think I may buy lexus now. Sorry Cadillac, I will still remember all the great times we had, but, I have to move on. I drive normally 30k miles/yr. and buy 2 yr old devilles and try to get 80k miles in 3 yrs. my 97 gave me 90k miles then BANG HG got it. My 01 Deville was a 2yr old baby with 30k and at 149k it arrived DOA in 6 yrs. I am still in mourning. I may have to intervene in my cadillac addiction and enroll in a japanese treatment center for ex caddy addicts.

STSS
07-23-10, 09:26 AM
Feel better now?

Have fun with your Lexus....:histeric:

Ranger
07-23-10, 03:35 PM
Look for a 2004+. The head bolt thread pitch was made coarser in '04 and the reliability has greatly improved.

mitchjagger
07-23-10, 05:11 PM
DISAPOINTED TOO. Yes I dearly loved all my past 7 cadillacs. I am so disapointed in the HG problem. For the first time in my car buying career, I think I will have to consider buying a different car now. Maybe if I buy a 1 to 2 yr old Caddy, and get rid of it before the warranty goes out. Its sad that the HG problem is either a 24 hour replacement with used/new engine or 38 hour overhall. No economist would recommend overhauling or replacing a northstar. Its really sad how those lexus cars and all dont have the problem. I think I may buy lexus now. Sorry Cadillac, I will still remember all the great times we had, but, I have to move on. I drive normally 30k miles/yr. and buy 2 yr old devilles and try to get 80k miles in 3 yrs. my 97 gave me 90k miles then BANG HG got it. My 01 Deville was a 2yr old baby with 30k and at 149k it arrived DOA in 6 yrs. I am still in mourning. I may have to intervene in my cadillac addiction and enroll in a japanese treatment center for ex caddy addicts.

Hate to tell you this but you are not going to escape problems by buying a Lexus. The problems will be just a prevalent and just as expensive. I have a friend who bought a Lexus and the second day he had it there was a big oil puddle in his driveway. He had to have it towed back to the dealer where they spent 2 days tearing apart the engine to fix the problem. Every car is going to have mechanical issues. If you don't like that, buy a extended warranty or lease.

Tortola Jim
12-06-11, 07:30 PM
Well, this is my first post to this site, just joined today and want to thank all the previous posters for their comments on the Northstar Head gasket issue. I own four Cadillacs at present, all bought new from the same dealer and impeccably dealer maintained. The 99 Deville Concours and the 2000 Seville STS are driven by two of my kids. The 04 Escalade is mine and the 2011 SRX is my wife's. We love all these cars, and by and large they have been good runners, but as I said well maintained too. The head gasket issue just popped up on the 00 STS and I have spent a lot of time in the last few days investigating these issues. As a 40 year tradesman I am bitterly disappointed that the issue seems to be fine thread, combined with carbon steel fasteners in an aluminum block with a corrosive coolant thrown in for good measure. Woulda coulda shoulda seems to apply. Stainless steel fasteners in the aluminum block would have been a no brainer, and the amount of thread engagement on a fine thread vs coarse thread fastener are clearly documented so why is this an issue. I fear, that it might just come down to value engineering during design phase, as everyone who has ever bought fasteners knows, stainless costs a lot more than carbon. While digging around I found Jake up in Canada and talked to man himself today and was quite impressed by what I heard. I love the stud concept for repair over anything else I have seen and was thrilled to learn that their Ontario operation is just 90 minutes outside Toronto where I have many friends. So, all things
Considered, I think I'm gonna trailer my 2000 STS up to Jake, after the first of the year, and then spend a few days with friends in Toronto while he works his magic. My cadillac dealer here in Chicago for whom I have the utmost respect quoted $5,500.00 for the job. The Blue Book trade value for the car is $5,500.00! I would love to hear from anyone who has had their Northstar repaired by Jake, but for now my mind is made up. I am not pressed to either start the repair, or get it back, as I have a spare vehicle. So again thanks for listening. As to the class action lawsuit issue, there may be grounds there, but it hard to argue that at nearly 100K miles that Cadillac owns the problem. Try to get this in front of jury where the poor sad Cadillac owner has to explain how he has been wronged by "Big Bidness" to a jury made up of people who have probably never owned a Cadillac. I'm gonna count my blessings, and lick my wounds, and go see some friends in Toronto as soon as the weather permits.

maeng9981
12-06-11, 09:21 PM
Jake is the man. He is famous around the forums. I believe his stud repair is the most elegant/successful repair and it uses no inserts.

Ranger
12-06-11, 10:44 PM
Jim, I know Jake and certainly would not want to take any business away from him, but I think he would certainly understand when I tell you that I know of two people right here (in the Chicago suburbs) that will do the job for around $2000. Both will use Jake's studs if you wish. Contact Joe at Midwest Cadillac Repair in Palatine at 847-776-1234. He has done over 121 of them to date.

postman2000
12-07-11, 01:08 AM
I had my 2000 deville fixed by Jake in 2009 in Ontario..30,xxx miles later shes still running strong...worth the trip..class A guy..I would'nt want anyone else fixing my caddy...HOPE EVERYTHING WORKS OUT FOR YOU..

89falcon
12-07-11, 02:40 AM
Well, this is my first post to this site, just joined today and want to thank all the previous posters for their comments on the Northstar Head gasket issue. I own four Cadillacs at present, all bought new from the same dealer and impeccably dealer maintained. The 99 Deville Concours and the 2000 Seville STS are driven by two of my kids. The 04 Escalade is mine and the 2011 SRX is my wife's. We love all these cars, and by and large they have been good runners, but as I said well maintained too. The head gasket issue just popped up on the 00 STS and I have spent a lot of time in the last few days investigating these issues. As a 40 year tradesman I am bitterly disappointed that the issue seems to be fine thread, combined with carbon steel fasteners in an aluminum block with a corrosive coolant thrown in for good measure. Woulda coulda shoulda seems to apply. Stainless steel fasteners in the aluminum block would have been a no brainer, and the amount of thread engagement on a fine thread vs coarse thread fastener are clearly documented so why is this an issue. I fear, that it might just come down to value engineering during design phase, as everyone who has ever bought fasteners knows, stainless costs a lot more than carbon. While digging around I found Jake up in Canada and talked to man himself today and was quite impressed by what I heard. I love the stud concept for repair over anything else I have seen and was thrilled to learn that their Ontario operation is just 90 minutes outside Toronto where I have many friends. So, all things
Considered, I think I'm gonna trailer my 2000 STS up to Jake, after the first of the year, and then spend a few days with friends in Toronto while he works his magic. My cadillac dealer here in Chicago for whom I have the utmost respect quoted $5,500.00 for the job. The Blue Book trade value for the car is $5,500.00! I would love to hear from anyone who has had their Northstar repaired by Jake, but for now my mind is made up. I am not pressed to either start the repair, or get it back, as I have a spare vehicle. So again thanks for listening. As to the class action lawsuit issue, there may be grounds there, but it hard to argue that at nearly 100K miles that Cadillac owns the problem. Try to get this in front of jury where the poor sad Cadillac owner has to explain how he has been wronged by "Big Bidness" to a jury made up of people who have probably never owned a Cadillac. I'm gonna count my blessings, and lick my wounds, and go see some friends in Toronto as soon as the weather permits.

Jim,

Explain the part about Stainless working better in an aluminum block than carbon steel.

I guess coarse threads would be tougher to get consistent torques than fine threads. I've wondered why they didn't just use bigger bolts, or even steel inserts (like Norm's).

Submariner409
12-07-11, 10:41 AM
Stainless steel studs and bolts in an engine (heads and rotating assemblies) is a no-no unless the material used is subjected to extreme forging pressures. Stressed "stainless steel" engine fasteners are NOT the crap you buy at the hardware store.

The statement "carbon steel fasteners in an aluminum block with corrosive coolant thrown in ......." is patently wrong - if it were true, then every automobile engine made today would fall apart. (Of course, the engineers at the world's automobile companies have never done their metallurgy homework............)

Coolant wars.........self-perpetuating. Isn't Prestone now blending a "universal" coolant - completely compatible with green, DEX-COOL, MB, and others ?? Of course, you can always try Honda coolant - it's blue ...... :sneaky:. (Let's see......mix blue coolant and yellow coolant......you get green coolant. Oh, my!)

dkozloski
12-07-11, 12:15 PM
Well, this is my first post to this site, just joined today and want to thank all the previous posters for their comments on the Northstar Head gasket issue. I own four Cadillacs at present, all bought new from the same dealer and impeccably dealer maintained. The 99 Deville Concours and the 2000 Seville STS are driven by two of my kids. The 04 Escalade is mine and the 2011 SRX is my wife's. We love all these cars, and by and large they have been good runners, but as I said well maintained too. The head gasket issue just popped up on the 00 STS and I have spent a lot of time in the last few days investigating these issues. As a 40 year tradesman I am bitterly disappointed that the issue seems to be fine thread, combined with carbon steel fasteners in an aluminum block with a corrosive coolant thrown in for good measure. Woulda coulda shoulda seems to apply. Stainless steel fasteners in the aluminum block would have been a no brainer, and the amount of thread engagement on a fine thread vs coarse thread fastener are clearly documented so why is this an issue. I fear, that it might just come down to value engineering during design phase, as everyone who has ever bought fasteners knows, stainless costs a lot more than carbon. While digging around I found Jake up in Canada and talked to man himself today and was quite impressed by what I heard. I love the stud concept for repair over anything else I have seen and was thrilled to learn that their Ontario operation is just 90 minutes outside Toronto where I have many friends. So, all things
Considered, I think I'm gonna trailer my 2000 STS up to Jake, after the first of the year, and then spend a few days with friends in Toronto while he works his magic. My cadillac dealer here in Chicago for whom I have the utmost respect quoted $5,500.00 for the job. The Blue Book trade value for the car is $5,500.00! I would love to hear from anyone who has had their Northstar repaired by Jake, but for now my mind is made up. I am not pressed to either start the repair, or get it back, as I have a spare vehicle. So again thanks for listening. As to the class action lawsuit issue, there may be grounds there, but it hard to argue that at nearly 100K miles that Cadillac owns the problem. Try to get this in front of jury where the poor sad Cadillac owner has to explain how he has been wronged by "Big Bidness" to a jury made up of people who have probably never owned a Cadillac. I'm gonna count my blessings, and lick my wounds, and go see some friends in Toronto as soon as the weather permits.

Stainless steel is death to aluminum with moisture present. The aluminum sacrifices to the stainless steel. The combination is absolutely prohibited in aircraft structure unless extraordinary measures are taken to prevent corrosion. The answer in aircraft is to cadmium plate steel that is to be in contact with aluminum.

ThumperPup
12-07-11, 04:22 PM
Yeah Jake is for sure the way to go on this or atleast his studs are the way to go

If you where closer to cleveland i would tell ya bring it here

I had mine doen the first time in IL at Midwest Cadillac Repair wasn great for 18k then found the block was cracked
and had to have it doen again up here closer to where i live
now 27k latter still running like a champ

Submariner409
12-07-11, 05:22 PM
Stainless steel is death to aluminum with moisture present. The aluminum sacrifices to the stainless steel. The combination is absolutely prohibited in aircraft structure unless extraordinary measures are taken to prevent corrosion. The answer in aircraft is to cadmium plate steel that is to be in contact with aluminum.

Having been Master, for 11 years, of a 385 ton oceanographic research vessel made of aluminum I can verify that aluminum and s/s are a lousy combination, especially when subjected to Atlantic Ocean salt water.