I have bought manual cars the last 20 years. I like the "feel" of an a manual for reasons that probably do not need explaining to folks on this board. That being said, after 4.5 years living the V I have not enjoyed my time with the manual driveline on the V1. Again, for reasons that do not need explanation.

Yesterday I went to a dealer here in Canada and saw a V2 for the first time. They had recieved four cars in total so far. Three are sold and ALL are auto. The saleman said that there was just one unsold V in the country with a manual.

My first instinct was to say, "Well when they have a manual available I'll be back". He tried to make veiled suggestions that they did not know how much longer the V would be made. "88 engineers at GM high performance division has been disbanded and the engineers reassigned". etc. I other words, get one whilst you can. Whatever, I don't mind buying used. I said I liked the ZR1 as well but too expensie right now I would wait and buy used. His observation..."Is that a good idea. A car like that would get driven hard".

Well candidly, the car CAN and SHOULD be driven hard because it can take it no problem, Secondly, in my experience the VAST majority of Corvette owners baby their cars. You see them on Ebay all the time. Four years old and 10,000 miles. *sigh* I'm also interested in a 2005 DB9. These are offerred at 50% of MSRP right now and you cannot FIND a car with more then 20k miles. Most are 10 - 15 k in miles. They sit in a garne all the time. Whata wayse. What depreciation.

On reflection however, I should perhaps give the auto a chance. I have no doubt that it is a "good" transmission.

So my question to the diehard stick shift drivers. If you went with an auto, any regrets. Do you still enjoy the sense of "fun"? I was just watching Jeremy Clarkson driving the ZR1 and his comment was "thank goodness you could still get a car with a manual and not all the "floopy" shift paddles.

I drove a Corvette with the shift buttons and candidly it did not appeal to me. They still shift like an auto. No heal toe, no control of the revs as you let out the clutch, no compression downshifting and a sliding clutch.

So what are peoples thoughts

So what are peoples thoughts

I don't exactly fit your qualification to answer this thread, as I actually went with a manual in the V. But, I'll offer up my (325 mile) experience, so far. Take it for what it's worth (probably less than you paid for it.. :-) )

I simply can't imagine driving a sports, or sporty, or GT car without a manual. And that goes doubly for the V. I know GM spent an enormous amount of time tuning the auto in the V, and I know it's a damned good transmission. But, at the end of the day, it's a push-button-to-shift transmission, and to me there's just something... missing.. from it. Like the third pedal.

I just got back from a 200 mile trip through the Shenendoahs, in VA. A good portion of my trip was on VA Rt. 211, which is, in my opinion, one of the finest roads in this entire state. Once it hits the mountains (which it does, twice) it becomes a very twisty snake: some corners are literally greater than 180 degrees, perfectly banked, etc. Three lanes of traffic: 2 up hill, and 1 down.

Now, I'm still in my break-in section, so I kept the gears high (5th and 6th up the mountains... imagine that..) and the revs low. Even so, the car behaved perfectly, and I never once thought, "Gee, this would be so much MORE enjoyable with an automatic."

In fact, if that thought ever actually enters my mind, I'm going to have a short discussion with my shotgun!

The manual in this car is perfect. I do wish 6th was a lot taller, but that's not what your asking about. It shifts smoothly and cleanly, the clutch effort is nearly non-existent, and I actually did experiment a couple of times with light-throttle no-lift-shifts.... it works.

I say: go manual. Wait for one to be available, or hell, ORDER one!

jas

If it's any help, the same transmission employed in the ZR1, the TR6060 is also used in the V2. The Tr6060 has been highly regarded in the cars it's been used in. A great successor to the T-56.

I've been driving stick for my entire life with the exception of my last vehicle (Jeep SRT8) and I'm soooo happy to be back in a manual. For me it feels like I'm driving again.

The manual in this car is perfect. I do wish 6th was a lot taller, but that's not what your asking about. It shifts smoothly and cleanly, the clutch effort is nearly non-existent, and I actually did experiment a couple of times with light-throttle no-lift-shifts.... it works.

I say: go manual. Wait for one to be available, or hell, ORDER one!

jas

+1000, i have no experience with the tremec tr-6060 in the v as mine hasnt came yet, but i have alot of experience with that identical transmission in other cars (07 gt500, and 07 z06) and from what ive heard its vastly better then the tranny in the older V.

To contrast things, ive driven my brothers 03 m3 and and a z8 and both have comparatively rubbery and long throw shifters. The throws on the tr-6060 are short and precise. Ive heard that shifting the old one was like dislocating your sholder, and popping it back in.

This issue no longer applys, the TR-6060 is a world class brand name tranny that belongs in cars like the Z06 and CTS-V, get the stick like any true sports car should have.

The manual in this car is perfect. I do wish 6th was a lot taller, but that's not what your asking about. It shifts smoothly and cleanly, the clutch effort is nearly non-existent, and I actually did experiment a couple of times with light-throttle no-lift-shifts.... it works.

I say: go manual. Wait for one to be available, or hell, ORDER one!

jas

Good post jas!:thumbsup:

X2000 - order a manual while you can IMHO. Many dealers are stocking autos because they think they will be easier to move, (lessons learned from previous v1's I guess), but I'm very happy with the manual tranny in my v2, even though I'm still working through the break-in period as well. Nothing wrong with the auto tranny for sure - but in THIS car, the manual just fits perfectly as far as I'm concerned.

Rob

+ but i have alot of experience with that identical transmission in other cars (07 gt500, and 07 z06)

Careful there. I don't know about the GT500, but the 07 Z06 did NOT have the TR-6060. It has the last of the T56s. The TR6060 came into being for the 08s and up.

jas

Sigh. You guys are 100% right about the manny tranny. I love my automatic V, mind you, and bought it to allow for the low likelihood of an emergency during which the non-stick-driving wife has to drive the car.

It's why I'm keeping my S2000 even with a V in the stable....need a sports car that I can shift in. That, and shifting a 9k rpm is just as pleasurable an experience as feeling the butt dyno working in a V2.

The 2004 and 2005 CTS-Vs that I had both had manual transmissions since that was the only thing available. The last car I had with a manual transmission before that was a 1966 Pontiac GTO and all vehicles before that were manual. Since the 1966 GTO I had a 1973 Cad, 1979 Eldo, 1988 Riviera, and 1995 Eldo. All had automatics. When Cadillac offered the CTS-V with an automatic I jumped on it and have never looked back. Manual transmissions are a gigantic PIA, in my opinion, and I will never go back unless forced to, as was the case with the 2004-2007 CTS-Vs.

Ricker: We have several things in common. If I can't shift it, I typically don't buy it, unless it is a daily driver or a beater. I've been shifting for over 45 years now and refuse to change. 15 muscle cars over the years, all manuals. A 98 and 04 Z06 vettes, manual. 06 V1, manual of course. Now, let me say this. My V1 linkage was probably the bottom of the barrel as far as quality. But, a UUC helped a bunch. It's been said before, the Tremec6060 in the V2 is one of the very best manuals I have EVER owned. Trust me on this......drive one for three blocks and you'll say, "this is what should have been in the V1!" And coupled with the dual disk clutch......priceless! Dick

I just got rid of my 08 Z06 with the TR6060 transmission and I'm glad I did. I went with the auto just for peace of mind of not having the issues with the manual. Look up some service bulletins about grinding in 1-2 and then think about the manual. I hated driving the Z feeling the gears grind in 1st, 2nd and eventually 3rd and 4th. GM's answer, it is normal for the trans to grind for the first twenty miles while shifting when the weather is cold. My answer BBB and Lemon Law. Read up on the TR6060 the trans is not all that it is made out to be.
I enjoy a manual transmission and might miss it over time. Right now, still going through the break in period, the auto shifts just fine.

So what are peoples thoughtsIf you have to ask this question to a forum, you are obviously not a "car guy." Manual transmissions are for people who really like to drive. They appreciate all the options that a manual transmission offers and love the drivetrain noises and other sensations that are present in a manual transmission car and absent in an automatic transmission car. Have you ever driven a manual transmission car and the equivalent of the same car with an automatic transmission? If you have you would have noticed that the automatic transmission car felt totally different and somewhat "dead" by comparison. If all of this is foreign to you, get the automatic transmission version of the 2009 CTS-V, and don't be asking other people to help you make the decision. FYI, the TR-6060 is about as good as it gets for a manual transmission in a torque monster like the LSA.

If you have to ask this question to a forum, you are obviously not a "car guy." Manual transmissions are for people who really like to drive. They appreciate all the options that a manual transmission offers and love the drivetrain noises and other sensations that are present in a manual transmission car and absent in an automatic transmission car. Have you ever driven a manual transmission car and the equivalent of the same car with an automatic transmission? If you have you would have noticed that the automatic transmission car felt totally different and somewhat "dead" by comparison. If all of this is foreign to you, get the automatic transmission version of the 2009 CTS-V, and don't be asking other people to help you make the decision. FYI, the TR-6060 is about as good as it gets for a manual transmission in a torque monster like the LSA.
:highfive:
Took the words right out of this old guy's mouth.

:highfive:
Took the words right out of this old guy's mouth.

+1, only im not so old :lildevil:

...So my question to the diehard stick shift drivers. If you went with an auto, any regrets...I'll answer this question directly: nope, no regrets. In 33 years of driving, I've been lucky enough to have company cars, so I've only owned two other cars, both with manuals. The first, a 2200 pound Mazda RX-3 coupe, powered by a race-prepped rotary engine, would've ran away from the V2 in the twisties--but what a cranky, obnoxious beast to live with. I still have my 2nd car, a 1990 Mazda MX-5--and for pure sports fun it's hard to beat--'cause if you can't go fast with 115 HP, 441 more ain't gonna help. Now the V2 is on a completely different plane of existence compared to my first two cars--truly a "bi-modal bullet," but still a grand touring sedan in my book. The auto fits for what I bought the car for; the fact that it brings no performance envelope penalty (save for top speed) is just gravy. If I want more involvement, I still have my other car :)

Imagine this scneario, you are in tight steady traffic at 30-40mph with an auto. Probably in 5th or 6th gear <1500rpm. You want to squirt ahead to merge into a gap in the left lane for an upcoming turn. You press the loud pedal, and the auto says oh I see you want to go fast now, and downshifts to 2nd gear and you are wailing at 5000rpm. I HATE that behavior and every automatic I have ever driven does it. I chose the manual, I like to shift, I like to tell the car what I want it to do, I like the involvement.

A couple other reasons to consider the manual.
1. A manual in a high-po sedan may become a rare thing. Witness the availability of the auto in the V2 versus the V1 and the percentage of auto vs manual (75/25?)
2. The manual is approx 100lbs lighter
3. The manual gets better MPG, and has lower gas guzzler tax
4. The manual will almost certainly handle increased power better than the auto

My last sports cars was an S2000 (the one with the 9000 rpm motor) and it had perhaps the worlds best manual transmission - butter smooth, firm positive engagement, extremely short throw, etc. And it needed it since it had to be shifted a lot to keep it in power - it had <200ft-lbs tq. The LSA is a torque monster, and doesn't need to be shifted as much, even more reason to choose the manual in my opinion.

For me stick shift all the way! My 08 Z has the same stick, so far so good! Enjoy and drive it,
don't let it drive you!

Read up on the TR6060 the trans is not all that it is made out to be.
I enjoy a manual transmission and might miss it over time. Right now, still going through the break in period, the auto shifts just fine.

Indeed, sounds like you may have experienced a bad apple TR6060 cuz there is absolutely no grinding in any gear in my copy. Shifts are short, firm, and precise, with perfect clutch action. And, as I said, I'm still breaking the car in - so it's lookin real good so far.:cloud9:

Rob

I just test drove a stick yesterday, and I was pleasantly surprised. It was better than the stick in my '08 CTS, and felt better to me than a lot of the recent BMW sticks, too. There is a wonderful road behind this dealership with lots of curves and elevation changes, and shifting up and down and heel and toeing was just a joy. The handling and grip was a revelation, too. This car has the Recaros and the microfiber wheel, too, and they all added to a feeling of oneness with the car. What a great driving tool! I can't imagine that the automatic would be this much fun, as good as it may be. If you've enjoyed driving a stick in the past, I don't think you'll regret it. I have no desire to even try the auto, having tested the stick. As for this one, well, I'm working on it! More to follow.

My last sports cars was an S2000 (the one with the 9000 rpm motor) and it had perhaps the worlds best manual transmission - butter smooth, firm positive engagement, extremely short throw, etc. And it needed it since it had to be shifted a lot to keep it in power - it had <200ft-lbs tq. The LSA is a torque monster, and doesn't need to be shifted as much, even more reason to choose the manual in my opinion.

Hey, another S2000 (prior) owner. :thumbsup: Looking forward to driving mine to work in the AM to give my V a break.

I owned a 07 Z06 vette and traded it in on a 2009 auto cts-v . the way I look at it , the manual does not forgive you if you make mistakes and the auto makes you engine last longer - no mishaps to worry about . I lose the fun factor a bit in a auto but the sport mode on the cts-v is quite thrilling .

CADYSHAK

If you have to ask this question to a forum, you are obviously not a "car guy." Manual transmissions are for people who really like to drive. They appreciate all the options that a manual transmission offers and love the drivetrain noises and other sensations that are present in a manual transmission car and absent in an automatic transmission car. Have you ever driven a manual transmission car and the equivalent of the same car with an automatic transmission? If you have you would have noticed that the automatic transmission car felt totally different and somewhat "dead" by comparison. If all of this is foreign to you, get the automatic transmission version of the 2009 CTS-V, and don't be asking other people to help you make the decision. FYI, the TR-6060 is about as good as it gets for a manual transmission in a torque monster like the LSA.

Perhaps you misunderstood my question. I had no idea such a worded suggestion would prompt such vitriol.

I have driven a standard for 20 years and thus consider myself a "car guy" (I'll try not take offense) and as noted, have had ZERO experience with a "high performance" auto except for a short time in a paddle shift Z06 which I did not care for. As you note, I have no basis for comparision and thus your suggestion "...this is foreign to you, get the automatic..." leaves me perplexed.

I do not expect to have the option of test driving an auto V2 and I guess I was looking to see if the current generation of autos had in any way swayed the opinion of "enthusiastic drivers". From the comments above, it certainly appears that the answer to that is a resounding "No". Manual remains the way to go.

Thanks for your contribution although I did not find is as useful as others who took the time to share their thoughts.

A paddle shift Z06? Where did you find one of those? I thought all Z06's are stick???????

A paddle shift Z06? Where did you find one of those? I thought all Z06's are stick???????

No such thing exists, from the factory. All Z06s are, in fact, sticks.

jas

No such thing exists, from the factory. All Z06s are, in fact, sticks.

jas

There have been numerous Z06 6 speed manual conversions to automatics.

There have been numerous Z06 6 speed manual conversions to automatics.

Read.

My.

Post.

Carefully.

(specifically, the first sentence).

jas

i got an 09 stick v. I have absolutely zero regrets. Coming from an srt8 i hated the issues with the auto tranny shifting, worst of all was adaptive driving. It would learn you behavior and in a few hundred miles shift like an old man. Atleast now i have control - oh and oddly enough if i come up next to a car at the light and they know what a v can do they will rev up on the clutch and rock back and forth in attempt to see if my V is a stick. I can gladly ablige :bouncy:

No such thing exists, from the factory. All Z06s are, in fact, sticks.

jas

I read your post carefully, and still you said what is quoted above, which is incorrect.

I read your post carefully, and still you said what is quoted above, which is incorrect.

*sigh* Go back into your hole, Richie.

jas

I went from an 04 V to an 09 V w/a manual. There is no comparing the two. The shift throws in the new V a shorter and more precise. No more going 2nd->1st at a stop light because I can't go straight into 1st. No more 2nd->1st->R either. All gears a easy to engage, and I like the sound and feel the shifter makes going into gear (a lot like my wife's 335i, but more stout).

So forget about the old V's manual. The new one is completely different. (Clutch is better too).

I was a die hard automatic fan before I got the 04 V. I always felt like shifting was such a PITA, esp in traffic. My 00 STS had a pretty good auto and was plenty fun. When I got the 04V I didn't mind the manual (which was my first), but didn't think it was awesome either. The 09V has changed my mind. I wouldn't want the car any other way.

Just make sure whatever you decide you get a V: whatever transmission you pick you'll still be getting an awesome car.

This is one of the better auto's I have driven but I can tell you from my viewpoint - DON'T DO IT. I miss driving a stick and especially in this car. Just took a road trip this weekend and evertime I went to pass I thought to myself - this just isn't nearly as fun as it could be. I wish I would have waited.:rant2:

Perhaps you misunderstood my question. I had no idea such a worded suggestion would prompt such vitriol.

I have driven a standard for 20 years and thus consider myself a "car guy" (I'll try not take offense) and as noted, have had ZERO experience with a "high performance" auto except for a short time in a paddle shift Z06 which I did not care for.

Interesting discussion. For what it's worth, here's my 2 cents:

The Corvette Auto isn't nearly as good as the CTS-Vs. Rev matching on the downshifts is much better on the CTS-V, as well as the gear holding and downshifting in the "Sport" mode (where it detects performance driving and shifts more aggressively while still in Automatic).

Imagine this scneario, you are in tight steady traffic at 30-40mph with an auto. Probably in 5th or 6th gear <1500rpm. You want to squirt ahead to merge into a gap in the left lane for an upcoming turn. You press the loud pedal, and the auto says oh I see you want to go fast now, and downshifts to 2nd gear and you are wailing at 5000rpm.

The Auto in the CTS-V won't go into 6th at 30-40 mph, so you'd be in 5th at that speed. In the time it would take you (in a manual) to clutch in, move the shifter to 3rd, clutch out and hit the gas, you could just as easily double tap the trigger on the steering wheel to drop from 5 to 3, then move out and squeeze the gas. Simple.

My entire life, all my cars have been manuals, including my 2004 CTS-V. That being said, if I were to buy a 2009 CTS-V it would be the automatic. It's just as fast as the manual, but without the shifting when stuck in gridlock, worrying about valets frying my clutch, constantly bleeding the slave cylinder or any of the other pains associated with a manual. If I were buying it just to use on the track, it'd be a manual.

^ thats the only gripe - is being careful about the manual in terms of letting anyone drive it. Outside of that i'm very very glad i got the stick. Not only that but i 100% guarantee that in 2yrs time if i have to sell i'll be able to sell it much faster and for more than an auto. I've been through all this before. And driving stick in traffic ? - hell if you have one foot going from gas to break why not even it out and use the other foot also :D

If you have to ask this question to a forum, you are obviously not a "car guy." Manual transmissions are for people who really like to drive. They appreciate all the options that a manual transmission offers and love the drivetrain noises and other sensations that are present in a manual transmission car and absent in an automatic transmission car.

Stop with the elitist "if you don't drive a manual you are not a car guy" bullshit. It gets old.

If you don't want to shift all the time, get the automatic. It really is a great transmission. If you wan to shift all the time, get the manual. It's that simple and there is no wrong answer.

One is not better than the other no matter what anyone here wants to tell you. It's all about what YOU want in your car.

[end rant]

How's this, if you drink while driving, use a cell phone, fiddle with the Nav, get the auto! If not, get a stick!

I think alot of previous manual drivers hear that the auto is great ( i'm sure it is ) and the fact it is a large luxury sedan makes some people think they should get the auto. I'd like to think that is a big misconception as once you get in the car and drive it and throw it around some twisties the realization that if it was a stick shift you could really put it through its paces. There is no right or no wrong, just whatever makes you happy :thumbsup:

A manual transmission is just another distraction. You not only have to decide which gear to go to, you have to actually take the steps (clutch in, shift transmission, clutch out) to get there. Nobody has apparently bothered to mention that the auto in the 2009 CTS-V can also be shifted manually using the buttons on the back of the steering wheel, and you get to keep both hands on the steering wheel as an additional benefit. Three cheers for the automatic.

If you have to ask this question to a forum, you are obviously not a "car guy." Manual transmissions are for people who really like to drive. They appreciate all the options that a manual transmission offers and love the drivetrain noises and other sensations that are present in a manual transmission car and absent in an automatic transmission car. Have you ever driven a manual transmission car and the equivalent of the same car with an automatic transmission? If you have you would have noticed that the automatic transmission car felt totally different and somewhat "dead" by comparison. If all of this is foreign to you, get the automatic transmission version of the 2009 CTS-V, and don't be asking other people to help you make the decision. FYI, the TR-6060 is about as good as it gets for a manual transmission in a torque monster like the LSA.



Hmmm...

I wonder if John Heinricy is a "car guy"???

After all, it is my understanding it was his choice as to which tranny he used for his laps at the Nurburgring. Wonder why he chose an automatic?

Me, I chose an automatic for my own CTS-V, and I think I'm very much a "car guy". We can swap resumes or whatever if that's what you want, as I'm sure some other auto owners would be happy to do with you, too.

I've had a ton of manual shift cars along the way, and most all have been fun, but where I live and for most of the driving I do the auto just makes more sense... For a number of reasons. Besides, if I really want to go fast and shift I've got my various motorcycles to do that with. ;)

Like others have said, there is no "wrong" answer to the question. Nor are you suddenly stripped of your "car guy" status if you drive an auto. I have known a ton of professional race drivers who drive nothing but automatics on the street, and all of them were definitely real "car guys". In fact, if you look at the highest level of auto racing today the trend is more and more to auto and semi-auto gearboxes, the banishment of the use of the clutch pedal, and left-foot braking. It's fairly obvious there is no performance downside to getting an automatic in a new CTS-V so it is probably best, again as others have suggested, to evaluate what kind of driving you will be doing and what transmission will best suit you and your use of the car.

Just my two cents... Hope it helps.

Dallara


~

Hmmm...

I wonder if John Heinricy is a "car guy"???

After all, it is my understanding it was his choice as to which tranny he used for his laps at the Nurburgring. Wonder why he chose an automatic?

Because it was the one he was practicing with all week, that's why. He's answered this question, publicly, several times. He was practicing in the auto all week before the run. He didn't want to re-learn shift points, braking points, etc with the manual before the run. Rather, he was familiar and comfortable with the auto, so he went with it.

When asked what he'd rather drive, he said the manual.

http://www.garage419.com/episode/419_20080925

jas

Hmmm...

I wonder if John Heinricy is a "car guy"???

After all, it is my understanding it was his choice as to which tranny he used for his laps at the Nurburgring. Wonder why he chose an automatic?

~

Ill awnser that, and back it up with video proof. John said he preferred that Manual transmission in the CTS-V but said that he had much more seat time in the auto on the ring, and didnt have time to learn the shift points of the manual on the ring and didnt want to accidentally left foot brake in the MT.

Here it is John Heinricy, is after-all a manual man, which isnt taking anything away from the auto (it did set the record) but John is a car guy and would chose a 6MT for his car.

Garage 419 Manual FTW (Confirmed by John Heinricy(go to 7:23)

Get what's going to make you happy. Personally I find automatics annoying in traffic because I have to put more pressure on the brake to keep the car from creeping forward. I'll take a little left leg work on the go part to eliminate the extra right leg work on the stop part of stop and go traffic. It's all personal preference.

Although I will add that my dually has a great automatic and it's so heavy it doesn't pull on the brake when stopped.

+1, I know people say its a hassle in traffic, but thats all perspective if you prefer not creeping and riding the break its easier for you to drive stick (given your up to work out the left leg.)
Its also a trade-off im willing to make, to work a little bit more to be more in control of my car (and i know tiptronic autos are getting better, but you still dont have control like you do with a manual or DCT/F1 type gearboxes that some cars have.)

6MT/ Tremec TR-6060 FTW

^ throw in the fact that Scott from superior is saying there is a rumor that gm will wipe out the 6spd manual's out of production and you have a recipe for a car holding some real value :thumbsup:

^ throw in the fact that Scott from superior is saying there is a rumor that gm will wipe out the 6spd manual's out of production and you have a recipe for a car holding some real value :thumbsup:

Doubtful on the car holding some value.

Doubtful on the car holding some value.

considering the build ratio of the manual to auto V is 15/85% if the production of manuals is under 1000 or 2000 vehicles than i do expect it to keep good value. This isn't some ugly new thunderbird. This is a 550hp american sedan. Alot of the value is based on enthusiast demand. I see the demand in the future being there especially if the auto trans start slipping with heavy mods.

~


Interesting comments from Heinricy about "The Lap" and transmissions. Didn't know that, and appreciate the info.

Still, it really doesn't alter the fact that choosing an automatic transmission doesn't "automatically" disqualify you as a "car guy"... Is an owner with a paddle-shifting, no clutch pedal Ferrari somehow NOT a "car guy"? He could be a doctor, or lawyer... or he could be a professional race driver.

As I said above, I know some high-level professional race drivers pretty well, and does the fact that some of them drive automatic street cars make them less of a "car guy"?

The real point is that I hate to see anybody present himself as somehow superior to others simply for a choice he made in transmissions. Choosing a manual tranny does NOT make anybody more of a "car guy", or somehow a better driver, etc. than some of those who choose an automatic... Despite the self-righteous rhetoric and pompous chest beating proclaiming such an erroneous idea.

As for the manual transmissions somehow, suddenly being worth more than the automatic transmission models... Well, that's pretty doubtful. At least it's doubtful for about 20 to 25 years or so. Right now more people are buying the automatics, which means there is a higher demand for automatics. If fewer and fewer people continue to buy the manual cars then it only makes sense that GM discontinue the manuals. Simple free market economics - supply and demand - Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" and all that. Products that are in demand are always worth more in the short term, and will sell easier and faster.

Now 20 or 30 years from now is maybe a different story. IF the CTS-V's truly somehow achieve a cult status like a 1964 Mustang, and IF somehow part of the mystique of the '09 CTS-V was that some small amount of those were produced with manual trannys, and IF any of the surviving CTS-V's are in decent shape then MAYBE, just maybe, you might see the manual tranny V's bringing a higher premium at the 2039 Barrett-Jackson "Sponsored by Prius" Charity Environmental Auction and Tree Planting.

Of course, I doubt I'll be around to see it...

Meanwhile all CTS-V's are going to be nothing more that used cars the minute they roll off the showroom floor, and will take a major depreciation hit for the first few years whether manual or automatic... And whether you believe it or not it will be easier to trade-in or sell an automatic, and an auto will sell quicker the majority of the time.

Why?

Look at what's selling now.

Just my two cents... YMMV.

Dallara



~

^ I agree that the auto's are surpassing the manuals. In a few years there will be no cars made with manuals at all. It will be a shame but it will happen. Ferrari/lambo/porsche/nissan even are either in a dual clutch auto-manual system or even in a torque convertorless system like the one mb is using.

^ I agree that the auto's are surpassing the manuals. In a few years there will be no cars made with manuals at all. It will be a shame but it will happen. Ferrari/lambo/porsche/nissan even are either in a dual clutch auto-manual system or even in a torque convertorless system like the one mb is using.

I feel sorry for the next generation of young drivers that may never get to enjoy the thrill of shifting a manual transmission car.

I feel sorry for the next generation of young drivers that may never get to enjoy the thrill of shifting a manual transmission car.

I can tell you from personal experience, all of my peers think that a manual transmission is somehow a safety hazard or too hard to bother to learn. Terrible mentality people my age share, i dont know a single person my age that can proficiently drive a manual transmission, unfortunately it doesnt seem like it will be missed...

too bad, all the more fun for me.

Its tremendously sad. I taught my younger brother how to drive stick when he learned to drive. People say its dangerous, BULLSH*T !!!, you can't text message people, you can't sit on the phone, you cant do your makeup or read your newspaper. It makes you much more alert and aware of driving and hell it even keeps you from falling asleep at the wheel. If thats not safe than i dont know what the hell is.....oh and girls find a man that can drive stick hot !

When I learned to drive in 1980 we had two manual transmission drivers ed cars. I was one of a small handful of kids that tried to get one of those cars to learn on. Also, if you cannot drive a manual car what does that mean for motorcycling?

When I learned to drive in 1980 we had two manual transmission drivers ed cars. I was one of a small handful of kids that tried to get one of those cars to learn on. Also, if you cannot drive a manual car what does that mean for motorcycling?

good point. Learning to drive a manual trans on a car is ALOT safer than learning on a motorcycle

I spent some "quality time" this evening in very bad stop and go traffic. I have to say that this car was very easy to drive in heavy traffic like that. First gear is short enough and there is sufficient torque everywhere that you could usually just leave the car in first and pay attention to what was going on ahead of you to have to keep from coming to a complete stop all the time (just keep enough of a gap to roll along at idle in first).

Now, check out what Jay Leno has to say about the V2 and specifically the manual - this is in his article on future collector cars (http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/jay_leno_garage/4312877.html):

"Another one to watch will be the most recent version of the Cadillac CTS-V with a six-speed standard. In the future, the manual gearbox will almost become a curiosity. People who know how to shift one properly will be seen as skilled individuals who can really drive an old car. In 2025 they’ll say, “You can drive a 2009 556-hp Cadillac stick?” By then, everything will be some version of a double-clutch, automatic-synchro, paddle-shifter ... The fact that you might have one of those anachronisms, a Cadillac with a stick—that’ll seem unbelievable"

HAHA, Sweet Jay Leno said the manual v is gonna be a classic, and i believe that man knows his shit when it comes to cars! I guess it might be smart to keep!

I don't exactly fit your qualification to answer this thread, as I actually went with a manual in the V. But, I'll offer up my (325 mile) experience, so far. Take it for what it's worth (probably less than you paid for it.. :-) )

I simply can't imagine driving a sports, or sporty, or GT car without a manual. And that goes doubly for the V. I know GM spent an enormous amount of time tuning the auto in the V, and I know it's a damned good transmission. But, at the end of the day, it's a push-button-to-shift transmission, and to me there's just something... missing.. from it. Like the third pedal.

I just got back from a 200 mile trip through the Shenendoahs, in VA. A good portion of my trip was on VA Rt. 211, which is, in my opinion, one of the finest roads in this entire state. Once it hits the mountains (which it does, twice) it becomes a very twisty snake: some corners are literally greater than 180 degrees, perfectly banked, etc. Three lanes of traffic: 2 up hill, and 1 down.

Now, I'm still in my break-in section, so I kept the gears high (5th and 6th up the mountains... imagine that..) and the revs low. Even so, the car behaved perfectly, and I never once thought, "Gee, this would be so much MORE enjoyable with an automatic."

In fact, if that thought ever actually enters my mind, I'm going to have a short discussion with my shotgun!

The manual in this car is perfect. I do wish 6th was a lot taller, but that's not what your asking about. It shifts smoothly and cleanly, the clutch effort is nearly non-existent, and I actually did experiment a couple of times with light-throttle no-lift-shifts.... it works.

I say: go manual. Wait for one to be available, or hell, ORDER one!

jas
I have never owned an automatic. My 300 mile 09 has a stick and this is a great trans compared to my 06 which was like a truck. This V's 6 speed is FABULOUS
Havin fun

HAHA, Sweet Jay Leno said the manual v is gonna be a classic, and i believe that man knows his shit when it comes to cars! I guess it might be smart to keep!


Lol, here we go again :thepan:

As I read the different replies to this topic I thought of my own experience with autos and manuals. I knew how to drive a column shift when I was 14. Had my first motorcycle at 15. Had numerous cars with manuals and autos. When I placed my order for my 09V in August of last year I had a tough time deciding between man. or auto, but eventually gave way to auto. I had enjoyed my three years with my 06V but wanted something different. Do I regret that decision?. Dont know. I do feel that I am as much a car guy as anyone, more than most people I know.. But I do know when I am sitting at a red light and the guy in the next lane wants some of the V, I can drive the auto better than I can shift gears with a manual. Just my two cents worth. Paul

I can tell you from personal experience, all of my peers think that a manual transmission is somehow a safety hazard or too hard to bother to learn. Terrible mentality people my age share, i dont know a single person my age that can proficiently drive a manual transmission, unfortunately it doesnt seem like it will be missed...

too bad, all the more fun for me.

Jesus Christ...

A fu*king lab monkey could learn to drive a manual transmission and don't even get me started on safety issues with a manual. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with safety.

Not paying attention to driving with get you into trouble 10,000 more times than driving a manual transmission. I truly hope this stupidity isn't the wave of the future.... :bigroll:

It's just too bad that GM didn't make the CTS-V with a column shifter... Now that would be the "true" driving experience! :duck:

Jesus Christ...

A F!ing lab monkey could learn to drive a manual transmission and don't even get me started on safety issues with a manual. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with safety.

It's always fascinating to compare Americans' fixation on automatic transmissions with the state of the game in much of the rest of the world, where you can go for a whole day and see very few.

I drove an 07 Z06 before trading it in on my 09 CTS-V Auto . I do miss my manual six speed but the auto paddle shift is awesome , and the way I look at it , the engine /transmission will last longer than a manual car just because the automatic is "idiot" proof from driver error . It's interesting in the video when John Henricy test drove the CTS-V manual . he mishift from third gear to fourth gear and hit the rev limiters on the engine . If you do that too many times you will have to look at new valve springs very soon .
By the way , automatics have always got higher resale value than their manual cousins: Not to many people want to drive a stick , too much to think about I guess .

CADYSHAK

. If you do that too many times you will have to look at new valve springs very soon

Uh... site your source for this claim, please?

jas

I think you can hit the limiter as many times as you want as long as it is not a forced
downshift. That's what the limiter is for to protect from missed upshifts.

That's what the limiter is for to protect from missed upshifts.

What he said.

jas

I've owned 16 cars with a variety of transmissions and have come to the following conclusions:
1. When I'm on the track I like a manual transmission over an automatic
2. When I'm on 55 South I like the automatic
3. The best transmission I've ever had was the DSG in my VW GTI

There are other reasons for considering an auto. I've always owned a manual, but the one thing that really gets me is after months of driving a stick, driving an auto and just about rear ending someone while pushing my left foot through the firewall. This is the first purchase over 400hp with an auto and it is one of the only ones I can recall that will break 19" tires loose on shift, "without" a shift kit! These are not the auto trannies of past. Let'sface it, if you are not tracking it, an auto is pretty nice. If you are tracking her, let's face it....manual rules, especially at highend where the auto is limited and weighs more. If in doubt, go manual and don't give Obama the extra guzzle tax!

Excuse my typing as it's with my thumb as I drive my manual transmission 05 V to work. :)

Nice points. Any point and shoot event will have the manual winning. It's just the case with torque converter automatic transmissions.

If you look at any point and shoot style driving events like auto cross the only auto cars have shift kits that would be hairy on the street to drive and more than enough torque to make up for time lost during a shift. And that's the case for an auto idling along and throttle is applied. It just takes time for the trq converter to disengage, revs climb, gear selection, and trq converter application. And usually it never fully applies but slips. Along with the slipping the revs are higher than a comparable manual as the manual is directly engaged where the auto slips and direct power at given rpm is less.

There is. Reason low torque cars shift faster and work the transmission better than higher torque cars, the transmission is lighter duty and does not have to handle higher trq. Think M5 S2000...or even sport bikes.

Norm

I spent some "quality time" this evening in very bad stop and go traffic. I have to say that this car was very easy to drive in heavy traffic like that. First gear is short enough and there is sufficient torque everywhere that you could usually just leave the car in first and pay attention to what was going on ahead of you to have to keep from coming to a complete stop all the time (just keep enough of a gap to roll along at idle in first).

Now, check out what Jay Leno has to say about the V2 and specifically the manual - this is in his article on future collector cars (http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/jay_leno_garage/4312877.html):

"Another one to watch will be the most recent version of the Cadillac CTS-V with a six-speed standard. In the future, the manual gearbox will almost become a curiosity. People who know how to shift one properly will be seen as skilled individuals who can really drive an old car. In 2025 they’ll say, “You can drive a 2009 556-hp Cadillac stick?” By then, everything will be some version of a double-clutch, automatic-synchro, paddle-shifter ... The fact that you might have one of those anachronisms, a Cadillac with a stick—that’ll seem unbelievable"

A paddle shift Z06? Where did you find one of those? I thought all Z06's are stick???????

+1 to lying fail:tisk:

I don't know how many of you have been to Europe or any other continent but 85-90% of their cars are manuals. The only "trend" worldwide is ultra high performance cars heading toward an auto-manual type steering wheel shifter trans. The USA may be mostly autos but we have unfortunately been more lazy and dependent on others and machines. ie automatics, socialized society and an Obamanation!