Hello all,

There have been V2 owners concerned on how to remedy an observed wheel clicking.

A few responded that removing the front wheels and reinstalling is a fix. This terse action will only serve as a temporary condition.

Please review the procedure below for a more robust solution. This info will immediately help efforts of both owners and dealer service.

I will post the official TSB once it is approved for release.


Vehicle: MY2009 CTSV

Condition:
A clicking noise has been noted emanating from the front wheels. Condition is noticed at low speeds (walking speed) during full wheel lock turns.
(Full lock parking lot maneuver).
Clicking noise is generally noted as approximately 1-4 “clicks” per wheel revolution.

Cause:
Interaction between wheel mounting face and wheel mounting surface on rotor.

Correction:
It is recommended the procedure below be completed on both front wheels.
It is not necessary to clean rear wheels for the “clicking” condition.

Procedure:
Remove wheel
Clean wheel as follows:
•Use clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner 12378392 or equivalent.
•Wipe the mounting surface of the wheel to remove and residual grey or black material that has accumulated on the wheel mounting surface.
Clean rotor as follows:
•Use clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner 12378392 or equivalent.
•Clean the wheel mounting surface of the rotor to remove and residual grey or black material that has accumulated on the wheel mounting surface.
•During cleaning process be sure to clean the rotor near the wheel pilot at the center of the rotor.

Reinstall wheels. The wheel nuts should be tightened to a service torque of 215Nm (158 lb/ft).

Note the increase wheel nut torque (190Nm to 215Nm) - (for forged CTSV wheels only).


You will recall the 2004-2007 V's wheel is a six bolt pattern. The V2's 5 bolt pattern was accomplished by using truck size lugs (forged wheels), hence the higher torque level required. A great piece of data for those of us that like to work on our cars personally. Cast wheels and steel wheels should be torqued to lower spec.


OFF TOPIC: The track opens tomorrow! :lildevil:




Mike

Wonder what the original trq spec was? Never seen a passenger car with that high of trq. Most European cars are around 90.

Norm

Wonder what the original trq spec was? Never seen a passenger car with that high of trq. Most European cars are around 90.

Norm

2009 Old spec 190 Nm (140 lb/ft)
2009 New spec 215 Nm (158 lb/ft)
2007 Spec 140 Nm (100 lb/ft)

2009 Old spec 190 Nm (140 lb/ft)
2009 New spec 215 Nm (158 lb/ft)
2007 Spec 140 Nm (100 lb/ft)

That's an insane amount of torque. Good to know.

jas

Never seen a passenger car with that high of trq. Most European cars are around 90.

Norm

Corvettes are set to 100 lb/ft.

That's an insane amount of torque. Good to know.

jas

Yes,

I usually had to adjust my torque wrench for a higher setting on my dually. I never thought it would be the other way around.


Mike

Short-Throw thanks for the info.

I think all of GM is 100 lb/ft. Not sure about Saab. I've seen people go a tad over 100 on GM cars and the studs break. Should be a cheap recall for GM until someones wheels falls off.


Norm

Corvettes are set to 100 lb/ft.

I haven't had the clicking, but now i know what to do if I do. Thanks!

OFF TOPIC: The track opens tomorrow!
Let us know how the V2 does on it's first day. :D

I'm not clear what "Interaction between wheel mounting face and wheel mounting surface on rotor" means. Is the wheel coming loose and wobbling or is a little dirt causing the problem? If it's just a little dirt I'm going to have a problem with this car.

I'm not clear what "Interaction between wheel mounting face and wheel mounting surface on rotor" means. Is the wheel coming loose and wobbling or is a little dirt causing the problem? If it's just a little dirt I'm going to have a problem with this car.

My bet is the following (Mike will be sure to clarify) -

- The cleaning procedure isn't required, just something that you should do while you have the wheels off. Yeah. Um. OK. Skip that step.

- The torque is the real issue. There's probably a hair too much play in the rotor, and when you turn the wheel and heave the suspension sideways at slow speeds, you hear the rotor "clunking" as it slides around on the studs and taps the inside of the wheel face. Likewise the wheel can slide on the studs.

- Tightening the lug nuts down to 158ft-lbs is GM's response to this issue. Extra ft-lbs means extra compression against the brake rotor, which means no sliding around.

That's just my guess based on what Mike wrote.

jas

I'm not clear what "Interaction between wheel mounting face and wheel mounting surface on rotor" means. Is the wheel coming loose and wobbling or is a little dirt causing the problem? If it's just a little dirt I'm going to have a problem with this car.

No worries Sean, read below! :thumbsup:

My bet is the following (Mike will be sure to clarify) -

- The cleaning procedure isn't required, just something that you should do while you have the wheels off. Yeah. Um. OK. Skip that step.

- The torque is the real issue. There's probably a hair too much play in the rotor, and when you turn the wheel and heave the suspension sideways at slow speeds, you hear the rotor "clunking" as it slides around on the studs and taps the inside of the wheel face. Likewise the wheel can slide on the studs.

- Tightening the lug nuts down to 158ft-lbs is GM's response to this issue. Extra ft-lbs means extra compression against the brake rotor, which means no sliding around.

That's just my guess based on what Mike wrote.

jas

You don't really believe the car would have been released if such conditions were true. Understandably a guess, but simply not true. :tisk: I only mentioned the tq spec to give people a heads up that these are special lugs, not because anything was loose.

Sean, Jason and all,

The Internet has spoiled us with so much information that there is more erroneous than correct data out there.

Why cleaning the rotors is required...Do Not Skip This Step.

Cleaning the wheels is required because issue stems from coating on the rotors (to reduce corrosion) at interface (between the wheel and the rotor)tends to 'rub off' with the microscopic movement between wheel and rotor. The coating residue acts as a lubricant in the joint and allows more relative motion between components - still microscopic, but enough to result in 'clicking'.

If you do not clean the wheels, you are not removing the 'lubricant' between surfaces. I'm sure many of you have picked up a new rotor and experienced your fingers feeling greasy afterwards even though there was nothing apparently on them.

By increasing torque, the clamp load raises, which in turn reduces the tendency of any movement at the interface.

Furthermore:

It is not from a little dirt (from external sources). You're okay here Sean! :)

It is not from any wheel coming loose.

It is not from the rotor or wheel moving and hitting wheel studs.

It is not from insufficient clamp load.

It IS from minute movement between wheel mounting surface and brake rotor surface at the interface.

I wouldn't get too worried about this as there are cars that will never exhibit such a noise. If so, it's an easy fix with NO MATERIAL effect.



I hope this added clarity.


Mike

So, it sounds like it's not something we mortals have to worry about too much?
I hear it all the time on sharp turns, specially when I use this hollow alley across the street to turn the car around.
I have bigger problems in my life than a few innocent noises coming from my car, even if it's brand new, as long as it's not a bearing getting overstressed....

This was timely. Both Monday and Tuesday as I backed out of my parking spot with the window down, I heard this clicking from the front left wheel. Didn't happen going forward, but then I had straightened the wheel out already.

Thanks for the information.

Mike

Should've stuck with 6 lugs :D

I have the same problem with the clicking thing , so i should be worried about it or not ?!? since the car is new , it worries me of what the... is that !!!?

or shall i take it to the dealer's workshop ?!

So, it sounds like it's not something we mortals have to worry about too much?


Correct. No worries at all.

or shall i take it to the dealer's workshop ?!

This is just a simple matter of cleaning a few parts. You can easily do it yourself or take the car to service. It's a very easy quick fix, and again, it's nothing to worry about.



Mike

Thank you for posting the issue and solution :thumbsup:

This was timely. Both Monday and Tuesday as I backed out of my parking spot with the window down, I heard this clicking from the front left wheel. Didn't happen going forward, but then I had straightened the wheel out already.

Thanks for the information.

Mike

:thumbsup:

I have over 4K miles on mine and not a peep.

I just performed this procedure (140lbs of pressure) and it seems to have solved the problem for me. I only tested it in and out of the driveway so I would not say I am 100% sure on the solution yet but it seems good so far. :thumbsup:

Thank again!!

Thanks for the info. Mike :)

But , what about the pressure thing !? what is it for ? pressure of what ?! what do u mean about it guys ?

thanks

But , what about the pressure thing !? what is it for ? pressure of what ?! what do u mean about it guys ?

thanks

lb/ft of torque. See post 3 in this same thread
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/1827979-post3.html

I just performed this procedure (140lbs of pressure) and it seems to have solved the problem for me. I only tested it in and out of the driveway so I would not say I am 100% sure on the solution yet but it seems good so far. :thumbsup:

Thank again!!

So people realize this isn't a major deal, how long did it take you?

30 minutes and I took time to clean my wheels inside and out.

Not sure why the extra lb/ft of torque. According to John H. In the video of the V2 vs M5 @ Montivello the bearings are a new or special design. I switched over to C5 hubs with BMW TR Motorsport wheels and have not had any problems @ 100 lb/ft spec. From track days to single digits temperatures it worked well. If not for legalize maybe the new hubs resonate and require anything attached to it extra tight.

Norm

Should've stuck with 6 lugs :D

I just performed this procedure (140lbs of pressure) and it seems to have solved the problem for me. Thank again!!

Why did you only torque to 140 lb/ft?

Not sure why the extra lb/ft of torque. According to John H. In the video of the V2 vs M5 @ Montivello the bearings are a new or special design. I switched over to C5 hubs with BMW TR Motorsport wheels and have not had any problems @ 100 lb/ft spec. From track days to single digits temperatures it worked well. If not for legalize maybe the new hubs resonate and require anything attached to it extra tight.

Norm

Norm,

I'm not sure why you see the torque spec as such a mystery. The wheel studs do not go through the bearings. The lug torque is not established by the bearings, it is dictated by the fastener specs. Comparing the Corvette to the V is not apples to apples as the V uses larger lugs, hence the requirement for increased torque.


Mike

I think the spec is mandated by the wheel not falling. The rest is dictated by the weight of the car. All well reviewed by GM's legal department. :)

Norm,

I'm not sure why you see the torque spec as such a mystery. The wheel studs do not go through the bearings. The lug torque is not established by the bearings, it is dictated by the fastener specs. Comparing the Corvette to the V is not apples to apples as the V uses larger lugs, hence the requirement for increased torque.


Mike

I think the spec is mandated by the wheel not falling. The rest is dictated by the weight of the car. All well reviewed by GM's legal department.

Define "wheel not falling". Do you mean falling off the studs? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the lug/stud torque values would be dictated by a few variables here:

- stud thickness (don't want to snap a stud)
- lug size
- wheel robustness (how much "clamp" can the wheel take before it gets crushed)

And perhaps to a much lesser extent, by the mass of the vehicle. I tend to doubt the vehicle's mass really comes into play too much at all when deciding lug torques.

jas

Thanks for posting this fix.

My car was making similar noises, and the procedure described worked well. When removing the wheels, I noted that my TQ wrench indicated 80-100 lb-ft for the wheels. After I wiped the surfaces, I put the wheels back on, and set them at about 140 lb-ft, and now the sound is gone.

I think the spec is mandated by the wheel not falling. The rest is dictated by the weight of the car. All well reviewed by GM's legal department. :)

The wheel not falling? I'm not sure what you mean here so I will not guess.

The vehicle's weight has nothing to do with the lug nut torque. The size of the lug itself and the quantity employed contribute to such input.

Please tell me you were joking about legal reviewing engineering decisions, that is simply inane.


Mike

My V is at the dealer as we speak getting this issue resolved. I printed out the TSB and took it into my servicing dealer and showed it to the tech and to my service advisor. I should have the car back today.

I also reported a weird rubbing/grinding noise coming from the rear diff.

SG

My V is at the dealer as we speak getting this issue resolved. I printed out the TSB and took it into my servicing dealer and showed it to the tech and to my service advisor. I should have the car back today.

I also reported a weird rubbing/grinding noise coming from the rear diff.

SG

AERO1,

I'm curious if you were able to restrain yourself when first breaking in the car? This is a lot easier said than done, so no criticism. Aggressive initial starts before proper drive-train break in can result in a noisy differential. On the ZR-1 for example, it sounds like a high pitched noise. There's a coating on the ring and pinion and hard starts prevent proper seating.


Mike

AERO1,

I'm curious if you were able to restrain yourself when first breaking in the car? This is a lot easier said than done, so no criticism. Aggressive initial starts before proper drive-train break in can result in a noisy differential. On the ZR-1 for example, it sounds like a high pitched noise. There's a coating on the ring and pinion and hard starts prevent proper seating.


Mike

Mike,

I haven't done any hard launches or anything like that. I have driven it at high speed on the highway, but I was already cruising at around 65-75 MPH before going WOT. I never beat the crap out of the car from a dead stop as I want to make sure the tire life is as long as possible.

It seems like the grinding or rubbing noise is from the diff, but I could be wrong. It only happens on full lock backing up mainly.

SG

Why the crazy torque spec.? No, the wheel will not fall off. But hit some major potholes in some cities or go off roading like some will do and the stress spikes might loosen something.. The manufacture definitely has to weigh the worse case senario versus costs of building something as heavy duty as a truck! Of course the weight of the car plays a factor.

Wonder what the base CTS specs are?


Norm

Of course the weight of the car plays a factor.

Wonder what the base CTS specs are?

Norm

Normv,

This is simply not true regarding the torque specs.

The vehicles weight dictates the lug size and quantity, but it has nothing to due with the torque spec. The torque spec is directly related to the size of the lug, there are no other factors, period.

The base CTS uses the same size lugs and the torque spec is 190 Nm (140 lb/ft). The V can take on a higher spec, as jvp astutely mentioned, due to the maximum clamp load the wheel can accept in linear fashion.

You're free to believe what you want and I'm not responding just for the sake of it. I'm really trying to just help explain it.

Mike :cheers:

Honda civic 80 lb/ft 4 lugs. Half the car, half the torque. Not sure how some manufacturers figure this but GM has a nice layer of legal padding figureed in.

Norm

Normv,

This is simply not true regarding the torque specs.

The vehicles weight dictates the lug size and quantity, but it has nothing to due with the torque spec. The torque spec is directly related to the size of the lug, there are no other factors, period.

The base CTS uses the same size lugs and the torque spec is 190 Nm (140 lb/ft). The V can take on a higher spec, as jvp astutely mentioned, due to the maximum clamp load the wheel can accept in linear fashion.

You're free to believe what you want and I'm not responding just for the sake of it. I'm really trying to just help explain it.

Mike :cheers:

Hey Norm the CIA is watching you work on your car, better watch out. Mike knows his stuff, he is a very well respected track guy, he knows his stuff. I think he is reporting a fix for a problem, did you forget what you learned in kindergarden?

Hey Norm the CIA is watching you work on your car, better watch out. Mike knows his stuff, he is a very well respected track guy, he knows his stuff. I think he is reporting a fix for a problem, did you forget what you learned in kindergarden?

Sure, I learned about dynamic and static loads, aluminum contacting steel and adding the effects of thermal loads on each in preschool. :)

Just because they build doesn't mean they should be teaching about them.

Norm

Mine has started groaning mostly in slow speed turns. In some cases (tight turns I can feel it in the wheel). It feels and sounds like a power steering problem. Before I call the dealer I'm going to try retightening the lugs (need to buy a better torque wrench though).

Anyone else had a similar experience?

Mine has started groaning mostly in slow speed turns. In some cases (tight turns I can feel it in the wheel). It feels and sounds like a power steering problem. Before I call the dealer I'm going to try retightening the lugs (need to buy a better torque wrench though).

Anyone else had a similar experience?

It's very odd... I had a lot of clicking coming from both wheels a few months back. Did a spirited drive one saturday afternoon in hot humid weather, and when I came home all the clicking was gone. Hasn't come back since.

Hans.

I will post the official TSB once it is approved for release.



Does anyone know if an official TSB been issued on this yet?

Does anyone know if an official TSB been issued on this yet?

Post #'s 8 & 9, & when & if you visit your dealer, please obtain the TSB # & date of release so we all know what we are talking about when we visit the dealer for this. That avoids any of the "no such TSB exists" routine.

Does anyone know if an official TSB been issued on this yet?

Here is the official TSB which was released a few days after my initial post: It's basically the same content of what I originally posted.




#PIC5136: Clicking Noise From Front Wheels - (Apr 2, 2009)
Subject:
Clicking Noise From Front Wheels
Models: 2009 Cadillac CTS-V

________________________________________
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:

A clicking noise emanating from the front wheels. This condition is noticed at low speed (walking speed) during full wheel lock turns on dry clean pavement (Full lock parking lot maneuver). The clicking noise is generally noted as approximately 1 to 4 "clicks" per wheel revolution. The cause may be an interaction between wheel mounting face and wheel mounting surface on rotor.

Recommendation/Instructions:

Complete the procedure below on both front wheels.

Note: It is not necessary to clean the rear wheels for the "clicking" condition.

Remove the front wheels.

Important: Be careful not to use the Brake Cleaner on the painted or clear coated surfaces of the wheel.

Clean the wheels as follows.

• 2.1 Use a clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner 12378556 or equivalent.
• 2.1 Wipe the mounting surface of the wheel to remove any residual grey or black material that has accumulated on the wheel mounting surface.

Clean the rotor top hat as follows.
• 3.1 Use a clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner 12378556 or equivalent.
• 3.2 Clean the wheel mounting surface of the rotor (rotor top hat) to remove any residual grey or black material that has accumulated on the rotor. During cleaning process be sure to clean the rotor near the wheel pilot at the center of the rotor.

Reinstall the wheels.
• 4.1 Be sure to thoroughly dry the wheel and rotor prior to installation on vehicle.
• 4.2 Tighten wheel nuts to 215 N•m (158 lbs ft).

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information. WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
© 2009 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.






Hope this helps!


Mike

Post #'s 8 & 9, & when & if you visit your dealer, please obtain the TSB # & date of release so we all know what we are talking about when we visit the dealer for this. That avoids any of the "no such TSB exists" routine.

:hmm:

Here is the official TSB which was released a few days after my initial post: It's basically verbatum what I originally posted.




#PIC5136: Clicking Noise From Front Wheels - (Apr 2, 2009)
Subject:
Clicking Noise From Front Wheels
Models: 2009 Cadillac CTS-V


You're the man, Mike.

Thanks

Guys:

My V is only 1-month old and I do not currently have any “clicking” issues. I’m assuming my V is new enough that the new recommendation to torque the wheels at 158 lbs is already implemented. I’m going to my dealer shortly to have the differential fluid changed. Do you think it would be worthwhile to have them check the torque pressure, or would this just be something else that a dealership could “screw up” – i.e., more potential risk than potential reward?

Kyle

:hmm:
Oops, my bad, sorry, Luna, I was supposed to post the addy of a thread that I dug up referencing the TSB.

No clicking here...yet... Thanks for the heads up:yup:

I just checked my Craftsman torque wrench and found that 158 ft-lbs is the highest setting. What a coincidence. Lucky me!

Tony

I just checked my Craftsman torque wrench and found that 158 ft-lbs is the highest setting. What a coincidence. Lucky me!


I just checked my wrench & only goes to 150 ft-lbs.
Should I buy a new wrench or is 150 good enough?

I'd keep the one you have. Most aren't that accurate anyway.

This is a classic band-aid solution to a real design flaw in my opinion.

First of all, I agree that cleaning the wheel and rotor is a joke and just included for sh*ts and gigs.

Second, tightening the axle nut implies one of two things: 1) It was never tight enough to begin with = bad, or 2) You are overtightening the nut relative to the manufacturers tested torque spec for the axle = bad.

My fear is that rather than measuring the tensile strength of the axle under a variety of conditions to validate the fix, some GM mechanic just tightened the nut and the problem went away = classic band aid solution.

Over-tightening the nut puts undue stress on the axle and to an extreme could cause the outer shaft of the axle to snap under load. The over-tightening can actually suck the outer shaft out of the hub assembly until it breaks. Why do I worry about this? Because I've seen it happen before on a Cobra...literally with my own two eyes. Thankfully while the car was stationary.

2009 Old spec 190 Nm (140 lb/ft)
2009 New spec 215 Nm (158 lb/ft)
2007 Spec 140 Nm (100 lb/ft)

According to my dealer "Valley Cadillac" Rochester, NY. 585-427-8400
Today they told me they NEVER heard any of this in this thread.
They said bottom line is torque should be on 2009 CTS-V 100 ft/lbs not 158?

According to my dealer "Valley Cadillac" Rochester, NY. 585-427-8400
Today they told me they NEVER heard any of this in this thread.
They said bottom line is torque should be on 2009 CTS-V 100 ft/lbs not 158?

Accoring to the tech that did the TSB on my car here in L.A., the factory calls for 148 ft. lbs. of torque on the CTS-V and they upped the spec to 158 ft. lbs. to address this concern. The Corvette is 100 ft. lbs.

I guess some dealers just don't know unless they crack the book open. They must not service or deal with a lot of the V2s.

SG

My wheels come off weekly. I have over 9000 miles no clicking...and I only tq to 90 lbs. My truck wheels come off nearly every week too...they get 90 lbs too.

I am really uncomfortable with 140 lbs...sorry, just seems incredibly high to this cantankerous old fart.

If I get clicking at some point maybe I will adjust up in 10 or 15 lb increments until the noise goes away...but for now 90 lbs.

Edit: I do appreciate the work that was done to resolve the problem and the cure sounds very plausible and well thought out. Thanks for the follow up Short Throw, you have saved some of us some serious consternation!

I posted the note that appears below on the "V2 Wheel Clicking" thread. In case anyone missed it, it is repeated here:

My car started the clicking six weeks ago. The TSB was done and the problem went away. What this tells me is that the problem is not bearing related or anything having to do with the suspension assembly. It is a material-based anomaly related to the combination of at least two among: the wheel, the hub and the lug nuts. What is most likely happening is that there is differential movement between at least, but most likely only, two of those parts. The expansion properties of the hub and aluminum wheel are significantly different. Over time, with heating and cooling the parts become loose. Not in the literal sense of the term loose, but microscopically loose. After they are "loose", lateral force caused by the vehicle's motion while the wheels are turned causing microscopic snapping, leading to the clicking noise we are all hearing.

So, what is the solution? Seems to me that a likely, simple and long lasting solution is to remove the wheels, clean off the surfaces and place a thin, tough pvc or carbon-fiber type layer of material between the hub and wheel. The material could be cut to size, with holes for the lug nuts. Then tighten the whole thing to some reasonable torque. The material would need to be very thin, and therefore very tough. You would not want a material that over time would become compressed further. The next time mine starts the clicking, this is what I will try.

The only reason this would not work is if the problem is at the surface intersection between the lug nuts and the wheel. My guess at this point is that the chance is >50% that the problem is what I describe above, and does not involve the lug nuts.

The idea of torquing the hell out of the lug nuts is not a professional solution to this problem.

another_lap

I am really uncomfortable with 140 lbs...sorry, just seems incredibly high to this cantankerous old fart.

:thumbsup:

The idea of torquing the hell out of the lug nuts is not a professional solution to this problem.

another_lap

I am amazed how this keeps going round and round.

The clicking fix requires the wheel to be removed, followed by the steps posted, and since most wouldn't know the proper factory torque spec upon reinstalling the wheels due to the thicker studs/lugs, I posted it. It was an FYI. Many keep thinking this is part of the fix, it has nothing to do with it.

The lugs are torqued to 158 because of the size of lug/stud hardware employed, plain and simple.


Mike

Short-Throw,
I get the impression from your post that the amount of torque used to tighten the lug nuts after the cleaning has been done is not particularly important as long as it is sufficient. That is, reinstalling the front wheels after cleaning can be done with a torque value anywhere from 100 lb-ft to 158 lb-ft and the result will be the same - no clicking until the wheel-hub interface gets dirty again. Is this a correct interpretation?

I kind of like the theory that the clicking occurs at the wheel-hub interface, and that over time contamination results in a transition from no clicking to clicking. If this is true, it would explain a number of things like the clicking not showing up for several thousand miles intially or after cleaning. It would also explain why changing the hubs (using the same part which will be clean when it is new) or simply tightening the lug nuts temporarily eliminates the clicking. In any case, if the wheel-hub interface is the problem, I would not expect a permanent fix until either the wheels or the hubs are redesigned and the new parts installed.

I just picked my V up from the dealer today (10/16/09), overnight stay; they said "unable to duplicate noise", they must be hard of hearing "performed bulletin DOC 2261126". So the followed the TSB #PIC5136 anyway and clicking gone.