: My gut feeling....



Dick's06Vee
03-29-09, 11:55 AM
I bought my 06 V 12/05. Great car and I had planned on keeping it until fall of 09 and then moving up to a 2010 V2. I changed my mind and bought my new black Raven, MT and ultra-view three weeks ago. Super car, much improved over the V1, etc, etc, etc. But then those of you that owned a V1 and now own the V2 know all that. So what was the reason for buying mine early? My gut feeling. My gut's been telling me for the past several months that this will be the first and the last year for the V2. What with the fed money and all the strings that they'll end up putting on it, the upcoming increase in the CAFE standards, and the dismantling of the GM Performance Division, etc. etc. Now, my gut's been wrong before, but more often than not, it's been right. Hopefully I am wrong, but then I already have mine........ Your thoughts?????

Razorecko
03-29-09, 11:58 AM
^ I agree too. Even though everyone says they'll keep making them because they have the lines ready to produce the car it has nothing to do with gm anymore. Its all gov't now. The gov't sees no need to be pumping out 500hp beasts. I will tell you this. If that is the case these cars will fly off the shelves and the manual/no sunroof/recaro combo will be the holy grail of collectors in the future.

jvp
03-29-09, 12:11 PM
Its all gov't now. The gov't sees no need to be pumping out 500hp beasts.

It's not "all gov't now". Yes, the government is raising the CAFE numbers higher for both cars and pickups. But, remember the "A" in CAFE means AVERAGE. CAFE is a number that is calculated based on all of GM's vehicles. Things that hurt their CAFE numbers: the ZR1, the CTS-V, the preponderance of trucks. Things that help their CAFE numbers: just about everything else.

The upcoming Volt and Converj will also weigh positively towards their CAFE standards.


I will tell you this. If that is the case these cars will fly off the shelves and the manual/no sunroof/recaro combo will be the holy grail of collectors in the future.

And just how did you come to this conclusion? What you wrote is completely arbitrary and made-up. How on Earth would you know which option combinations would become collectors in the future and which wouldn't?

jas

BlackLight
03-29-09, 02:39 PM
I think he is thinking that a lighter car (no options) with better seats and a transmission that can (probably) handle more power if you want to mod it later, will be sought after for racers.

My opinion is that you should not start with a 4200/4300 lbs sedan if you want a racecar. :bigroll:

neuronbob
03-29-09, 03:50 PM
I have to admit, I was pushed off the fence not only by the availability of a great deal, but by the new auto rules coming out of Washington. While I disagree that this won't be the last year for this car, I do agree that it won't last much longer (another 2-3 MYs? Just a WAG) unless the more efficient end of GM's lineup is REALLY efficient, enough to allow for the V cars. We'll see.

The situation almost, ALMOST, makes me not want to daily drive the V and buy a sub-$5k used car as my daily beater. Only issue is, the V is made to DRIVE....

backup
03-29-09, 04:04 PM
This gen CTS-V is likely to be the last for a while. How long it lasts is anybody's guess. I would bet on at least 2011, but who knows. I wonder what a bankruptcy reorg would to to the niche vehicle production lines. Maybe nothing?

I am more confident that this CTS-V, Z06, and ZR1 will be the zenith of traditional US muscle. As long as there are vehicles, there will be performance vehicles, but I bet we won't see many more supercharged V8s with 15mpg coming from GM. The rumored Z28 with an LSA is a dream at best in my opinion. I bet it exists in a future product plan document somewhere within GM, but I don't see them building it now.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the LSA in the CTS-V the second most powerful engine EVER produced by GM (production street vehicles)? The LS9 in the ZR1 being the most powerful?

GMX322V S/C
03-29-09, 04:23 PM
One of the things that crossed my mind that prompted me to pre-order was the feeling that the days are numbered for cars such as this and we'll probably never see their like again. Of course similar things were said around the end of the last Muscle Car era; it took over 25 years for technology to bring us a level of performance unimaginable on the street back then, but viscerally, it's the same. I can't imagine what it would take to sustain this level of performance even 10 years from now, much less surpass it--but if I were to hazard a guess, it's probably not going to give you goosebumps in the same way when you fire it up in the garage :D

GMX322V S/C
03-29-09, 04:39 PM
This gen CTS-V is likely to be the last for a while. How long it lasts is anybody's guess. I would bet on at least 2011, but who knows. I wonder what a bankruptcy reorg would to to the niche vehicle production lines. Maybe nothing?...When GM disbanded their High Performance Vehicle Operations they said that current HPV's would continue to be produced for the remainder of the lifecycle of the car it's based on. A typical lifecycle of 5 years for CTS puts us out to MY 2013 :)

Razorecko
03-29-09, 05:04 PM
It's not "all gov't now". Yes, the government is raising the CAFE numbers higher for both cars and pickups. But, remember the "A" in CAFE means AVERAGE. CAFE is a number that is calculated based on all of GM's vehicles. Things that hurt their CAFE numbers: the ZR1, the CTS-V, the preponderance of trucks. Things that help their CAFE numbers: just about everything else.

The upcoming Volt and Converj will also weigh positively towards their CAFE standards.



And just how did you come to this conclusion? What you wrote is completely arbitrary and made-up. How on Earth would you know which option combinations would become collectors in the future and which wouldn't?

jas

If you did a number of V's produced I can guarantee that this combination is probally the lowest produced combination of all. I'm sure Scott or Tony would be able to back this up.

jvp
03-29-09, 05:50 PM
The rumored Z28 with an LSA is a dream at best in my opinion. I bet it exists in a future product plan document somewhere within GM, but I don't see them building it now.

The Z28 went out the door when HPVO closed theirs. It is, officially, toast. If a high performance organization within GM ever does come back into existence, then perhaps a Z28 will be made. But I don't see either of those happening soon.

jas

RapidRob
03-29-09, 06:01 PM
I bought my 06 V 12/05. Great car and I had planned on keeping it until fall of 09 and then moving up to a 2010 V2. I changed my mind and bought my new black Raven, MT and ultra-view three weeks ago. Super car, much improved over the V1, etc, etc, etc. But then those of you that owned a V1 and now own the V2 know all that. So what was the reason for buying mine early? My gut feeling. My gut's been telling me for the past several months that this will be the first and the last year for the V2. What with the fed money and all the strings that they'll end up putting on it, the upcoming increase in the CAFE standards, and the dismantling of the GM Performance Division, etc. etc. Now, my gut's been wrong before, but more often than not, it's been right. Hopefully I am wrong, but then I already have mine........ Your thoughts?????


Exactly the same reason I jumped when I did - a gut feeling that the v2 is one of the best ever, AND, perhaps one of the last for a very long time.

Rob

Richie18
03-29-09, 06:11 PM
My thoughts, i think you guys are overreacting. There would be no reason for the government to force GM to quit producing vehicles like the the ZR1 or CTS-V, they are just a couple more cars that keep more people employed. All current cars as of now will most likely run their pre-determined life cycle. If the government cut GM from producing cars being manufactured currently they would only be throwing only the millions of dollars invested in developing those vehicles.

Also, this has been said before but i'll say it again, the closing down of the GM HPVO has no influence on vehicles already being produced. The only significance of this is that right now no one at GM is thinking about a V3 or similiar vehicles.

Also even if GM somehow has to file chapter 11 bankruptcy they will still operate in a normal fashion, just as the airlines did when they had issues years ago.

Dick's06Vee
03-29-09, 07:22 PM
If the government cut GM from producing cars being manufactured currently they would only be throwing only the millions of dollars invested in developing those vehicles.

Richie: Let me get this right....you're saying Washington would not allow GM to waste R and D money??????? Washington waste money??????? Yeah, I guess you're right, they've never done that before.

Razor: I agree with your opinion. Should the 09 V2 be the last, or the 10 V for that matter, I would guess that the combo of no roof, MT and Recaros would be the lowest production option, thus fetching the most value. I will also say though, that ANY V2 would fetch great money if they die this year or next. My info says that roughly 84% of the V2's are autos and we all know there are not many out there with no roof. Add Recaros to that combo and you have a higher collector value.

ericpd
03-29-09, 07:28 PM
I bought my 06 V 12/05. Great car and I had planned on keeping it until fall of 09 and then moving up to a 2010 V2. I changed my mind and bought my new black Raven, MT and ultra-view three weeks ago. Super car, much improved over the V1, etc, etc, etc. But then those of you that owned a V1 and now own the V2 know all that. So what was the reason for buying mine early? My gut feeling. My gut's been telling me for the past several months that this will be the first and the last year for the V2. What with the fed money and all the strings that they'll end up putting on it, the upcoming increase in the CAFE standards, and the dismantling of the GM Performance Division, etc. etc. Now, my gut's been wrong before, but more often than not, it's been right. Hopefully I am wrong, but then I already have mine........ Your thoughts?????

I had practically the same feeling as well. That's why I bought mine when I did. I'm working on month 2 and couldn't be happier! I also worried if GM had to declare bankruptcy, would that affect my access to maintenance, warranty or otherwise. Last month, they were practically giving these things away.

vixapphire
03-29-09, 08:20 PM
Last month, they were practically giving these things away.

... and yet, over here in "been shopping for an '09 XLR-V"-ville, the Cadi dealers are still stuck way up in the $90,000's.

Party like it's 2006. Ridiculous, given the unsold '08 inventory, much less unsold '09's.

You CTS-V guys are fortunate, in that you're driving the "past the experiment stage" V series car designs. Given the looks and quality upgrades of the '09 CTS-V over its predecessor, I'd have loved to see what GM had in store for the XLR-V, if anything. Ah well, coulda, shoulda...

Happy motoring!

v

Formula57
03-29-09, 09:06 PM
... and yet, over here in "been shopping for an '09 XLR-V"-ville, the Cadi dealers are still stuck way up in the $90,000's.

Party like it's 2006. Ridiculous, given the unsold '08 inventory, much less unsold '09's.

Maybe it's too good to be true, but a dealer local to me (Coral Cadillac) is selling an '09 XLR-V for $79.9k. That's 23% off sticker! :D

With regard to the original topic, I think trying to time the car market is like trying to time the stock market. Some will make a killing but the majority will get burned...

caddiedrummer
03-29-09, 09:31 PM
Your gut feeling is looking good. Barry just fired CEO Waggonner (I bet Lutz is glad he retired) When you take their money--they own you. Sad, sad times.

As to the XLR-V --I bought one new 2 yrs ago for $76K when the MSRP was $100 so does not surprise me. If that car is worth $100K the CTS-V is worth $150K--no comparison at all.

vixapphire
03-29-09, 10:24 PM
Exactly (re. the XLR-V): At this point in time, given GM's chronic pain, the end-of-lining of the XLR, and the fact that dealers are swimming in new 08's and 09's, pricing in the $70's is still way too high!!!

I know that might sound somewhat ridiculous given it's a $100k stickered car, but to me that $100k sticker has always had the ring of those $25,000 ice cream sundae desserts at the hoidy-toidy Manhattan plushspots that used to make the papers a couple of years ago. Same thing could be had at Denny's (the Chevy dealer?) for tens of thousands less.

Too bad I'm a sucker for the XLR-V's styling and overall idea. I've had both an SLK and a 2002 SL500 that I enjoyed quite a bit, and I love the hardtop convertable concept. Add the XLR's trunk depth (did they put the trunk/roof motors etc. under the floor?) and I'm sold on the concept. Add the capability to share parts (brakes, etc.) with the ultra-supported Corvette platform and I'm sold, period.

Just waiting on the right deal at this point.

Enjoy your V's (you magnificent bastards)!

vic

vperl
03-30-09, 03:17 AM
Just waiting on the right deal at this point.

Enjoy your V's (you magnificent bastards)!

vic

****************************************

Olddrummer55, seems this fellow knows you !

demorgan59
03-30-09, 01:50 PM
as to the xlr-v --i bought one new 2 yrs ago for $76k when the msrp was $100 so does not surprise me. If that car is worth $100k the cts-v is worth $150k--no comparison at all.

shhhhhhhhh!!!!!:d

vixapphire
03-30-09, 02:28 PM
Wow, so they're talking about income-tax deductible sales tax on new car purchases and now a "clunkers for cash" trade-in program too, all courtesy of the G-men. We'll see what happens when the legislation hits this greedy Congress, but for now they sound like good ideas to get people buying cars.

Razorecko
03-30-09, 06:47 PM
http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/general-motors-ceo-rick-wagoner-steps/403217

Obama Quote "I am absolutely committed to working with Congress and the auto companies to meet one goal: The United States of America will lead the world in building the next generation of clean cars,"

...doesnt sound like he's interested in continuing a 2010 high hp V even if it makes a profit....He's on the eco trip and he wants the U.s. to lead the world in slow boring automobiles.

Richie18
03-30-09, 07:01 PM
http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/general-motors-ceo-rick-wagoner-steps/403217

Obama Quote "I am absolutely committed to working with Congress and the auto companies to meet one goal: The United States of America will lead the world in building the next generation of clean cars,"

...doesnt sound like he's interested in continuing a 2010 high hp V even if it makes a profit....He's on the eco trip and he wants the U.s. to lead the world in slow boring automobiles.

There is a common misbelief that all this talk means next year, or that the changes will be instant. These developments take years at a time. You can rest assured the V2 isn't going to get axed next year over some PR talk that happened today.

vperl
03-30-09, 07:16 PM
There is a common misbelief that all this talk means next year, or that the changes will be instant. These developments take years at a time. You can rest assured the V2 isn't going to get axed next year over some PR talk that happened today.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


so, the walking on water is postponed ?

Hawkeye2
03-30-09, 07:21 PM
This may be 1969 all over. You could have purchased a 427 Tri Power Vette, if you waited till 1970,
look what happened. Things changed over night till the hot car was a Vega GT! I look at it this way.
I'll buy it now, if things don't change, and the V's improve over the next few years I can always trade
it and move up, however, if this is 69 again, I've got my V.

vperl
03-30-09, 07:29 PM
This may be 1969 all over. You could have purchased a 427 Tri Power Vette, if you waited till 1970,
look what happened. Things changed over night till the hot car was a Vega GT! I look at it this way.
I'll buy it now, if things don't change, and the V's improve over the next few years I can always trade
it and move up, however, if this is 69 again, I've got my V.

************888

my folks hada vega, they put in oil, never saw any gas go in....

JFJr
03-30-09, 08:40 PM
There is a common misbelief that all this talk means next year, or that the changes will be instant. These developments take years at a time. You can rest assured the V2 isn't going to get axed next year over some PR talk that happened today.

Some of you may be old enough to remember what happened in the early-to-mid 1970's. Performance vehicles took a serious hit, for a few years, because of new emissions requirements, leaded gas, etc. Don't get caught up in all this media and Obama crap. These toads can't get dressed in the morning without help. The 2009 CTS-V and the 2009 ZR1 Corvette are "halo vehicles" that benefit the entire line, at the same time being low production units that don't appreciably affect CAFE and other "greenie weenie" aspirations. If you're nervous, buy now and quit whining about the price. If you can't afford it, then this car is not for you. There are other high performance alternatives at a cheaper price.

Richie18
04-01-09, 10:39 AM
Not sure if you were concluding or responding to what i said? I'd say we're in agreement, but you quoted me so i was unsure.

JFJr
04-01-09, 11:57 AM
Sorry, Richie18, it was not clear. I was just building on what you said and providing a little perspective on what happened in the past to high performance vehicles. I still believe that high performance cars have a future, despite the best efforts of the liberal media and stupid politicians to convince us otherwise.