: The Catera V badge-haters topic



Shinkaze
07-06-04, 10:59 AM
miscreant -

I think you are correct, if this search result is the same car.

Catera V (http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/showgallery.php/ppuser/13268/cat/500/password/142eed629dbc97dad37e824e599ebb38)Doesn't matter to me if the car has a million horsepower, it's only a "V" if it comes that way from the factory. Reminds me of folks putting "Z06" badges on their regular Corvettes. Heck I know a guy down in Florida that put a "Z06" badge on his LT1 C4 Corvette to try to increase his sales value. :tisk:

I've got no problem with putting one set of rims on another car, but don't badge your car as someting it isn't.

BeelzeBob
07-06-04, 11:12 AM
Doesn't matter to me if the car has a million horsepower, it's only a "V" if it comes that way from the factory. Reminds me of folks putting "Z06" badges on their regular Corvettes. Heck I know a guy down in Florida that put a "Z06" badge on his LT1 C4 Corvette to try to increase his sales value. :tisk:

I've got no problem with putting one set of rims on another car, but don't badge your car as someting it isn't.
It's not like he's trying to pass his car off as a CTS-V. This is different. He's not trying to fool anybody. The Z06 badge on the C4 - now that's ridiculous. Why? Because he's trying to increase his sales value.

T_Dogg8
07-06-04, 11:24 AM
if you dropped an LS6 in your c4, then i can understand putting a z06 badge on. i like it. i agree with Sal, it's not like he's trying to pass off a cts as a cts-v, so it's cool. as long as you make the mods to back it up, then i don't have a problem with the badges.

Shinkaze
07-06-04, 11:46 AM
if you dropped an LS6 in your c4, then i can understand putting a z06 badge on. i like it. i agree with Sal, it's not like he's trying to pass off a cts as a cts-v, so it's cool. as long as you make the mods to back it up, then i don't have a problem with the badges. Does a Z06 badge belong on a CTS-V since it has an LS6 too? NO!

The Z06 badge is more than just a motor, it's an option from the factory. If you don't have that option from the factory then you're "rice'n your ride".

This reminds me of all the fake 1969 Z/28's running around. Doesn't matter if you match the Z/28 package part for part, the car will never have the Z/28 option on it's build sheet so don't lie about your car.

Brett
07-06-04, 11:51 AM
unlike the Z06, over the years, the V will be appearing on several cadillacs. one more isnt the end of the world. and in this case its very fitting

T_Dogg8
07-06-04, 12:03 PM
so what do you think about the guy with the '63 roadster with a z06 badge?? i think it's cool to take something that was never offered and created it. (or in the case of the '63, moddernize to a newer version) it's completely different to build something that does already exist. you're right, the z06 is more than an engine. it's brakes and suspension too. but if that's upgraded as well, why not?? then you have something really rare.

JEM
07-06-04, 01:51 PM
Does a Z06 badge belong on a CTS-V since it has an LS6 too? NO!


One could start splitting hairs about the Z06 being a specific model vs the V being a line, but in reality it doesn't matter a whole lot.

These aren't handcrafted Faberge-egg treasures, they're mass-produced consumer commodities.

This Catera happens to be exceptionally tastefully done, doesn't much matter to me what badges it's got on it. That's one gorgeous-looking set of headers it's got, for one thing.

Looks a lot like what Dinan gets $8K + installation on an M5...

Shinkaze
07-06-04, 02:55 PM
One could start splitting hairs about the Z06 being a specific model vs the V being a line, but in reality it doesn't matter a whole lot.

These aren't handcrafted Faberge-egg treasures, they're mass-produced consumer commodities.

This Catera happens to be exceptionally tastefully done, doesn't much matter to me what badges it's got on it. That's one gorgeous-looking set of headers it's got, for one thing.

Looks a lot like what Dinan gets $8K + installation on an M5...
Did the new "V" division ever do a Catera? Nope.

Putting a "V" badge on something you built yourself is Rice.
Putting a Z06 badge on anything other than a Z06 is Rice.

Build something better? Good for you, no problems there, want to pass it off as a Factory car? That's Rice.

Brett
07-06-04, 03:03 PM
he definitely isnt trying to pass it off as a factory car. everyone has an opinion. i could see being annoyed at a guy with a regular CTS using a V emblem, but i really dont see the problem here. either way, lets just agree to disagree and drop it at that. its a very cool car regardless of emblems

CadV
07-06-04, 03:04 PM
Did the new "V" division ever do a Catera? Nope.

Putting a "V" badge on something you built yourself is Rice.
Putting a Z06 badge on anything other than a Z06 is Rice.

Build something better? Good for you, no problems there, want to pass it off as a Factory car? That's Rice.
He's right guys.

T_Dogg8
07-06-04, 03:31 PM
if you have a regular cts and it's stock except a cts-v grill, facia, side skirts, and emblems, that's rice. if you have a cts that can kick the crap out of the v because of the engine, then it's not rice to put the v badge on. but honestly, if you did that you wouldn't want people to think it's a v anyway. since cadillac is starting to make the v a 'line' then i don't see a problem with putting a v badge on a badass caddy, even if it was never built. it's not rice, it's just advertising the work you did on it. not everyone wants a sleeper. he built a badass car and wants to advertise a little. i like it, and if i built a 700+ hp escalade like caddilac is planning, i wouldn't have a problem putting a v emblem on it. right now, when someone thinks of a v they think of the cts-v, but it won't be like that in a few years.

Shinkaze
07-06-04, 04:55 PM
if you have a regular cts and it's stock except a cts-v grill, facia, side skirts, and emblems, that's rice. if you have a cts that can kick the crap out of the v because of the engine, then it's not rice to put the v badge on. but honestly, if you did that you wouldn't want people to think it's a v anyway. since cadillac is starting to make the v a 'line' then i don't see a problem with putting a v badge on a badass caddy, even if it was never built. it's not rice, it's just advertising the work you did on it. not everyone wants a sleeper. he built a badass car and wants to advertise a little. i like it, and if i built a 700+ hp escalade like caddilac is planning, i wouldn't have a problem putting a v emblem on it. right now, when someone thinks of a v they think of the cts-v, but it won't be like that in a few years.Maybe you're better off putting "Type R" on the car since more people know what that means? It's just as much a "type R" as it is a V series.

:helpless:
http://www.jdmspecperf.com/products/jdmhonda/dc5remblem.JPG

Brett
07-06-04, 05:16 PM
like i said, lets agree to disagree

DgtalPimp
07-06-04, 05:54 PM
Is that the same as disagreeing to agree?

Dgtal (dgtalpimp@pimpdaddy.com)

JEM
07-07-04, 03:57 AM
I'm amazed.

Here we have a guy who's got a lot of effort (and, presumably, money) into his car, it appears to be an exceptionally well thought-out and tasteful piece of hardware, something GM should have built five years ago.

There's a lot of careful work here, and if it works as good as it should (always a question when dealing with the automotive aftermarket...) it's quicker than any factory CTS-V, Z06, whatever.

And you (yes, I have to say it) clowns are obsessing over the badge? Get over it.

Go travel in Germany sometime. 90% of the Bimmers with 'M's on them are 523i's.

Jerseyboy
07-07-04, 08:17 AM
Well, the V series isn't really new. Caddy had it back in the 30's if I remember correctly. I know GM's Corporate Edict is that if a vehicle is going to get a V badge, it has to have a MINIMUM of 400hp. I'm sure the Catera V has atleast 400hp so it's fitting. It's not a CTS V, and he's not trying to pass it off as a V. If you look at those pictures on the gallery, that car has been around since BEFORE the CTS V (I take that from the pictures of John Lingenfelter driving the car) If anything you could probably make a case that GM finally got off thier butt and built what John did years ago! Of course, if you question his right to the V badges, I'm sure he'll race you for the rights, loser takes thier badges off :lildevil:

Catera V, Nice car. I'm sure it's a blast to drive. I might have to build myself one of those sleepers :-)

Jersey

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 09:34 AM
I'm amazed.

Here we have a guy who's got a lot of effort (and, presumably, money) into his car, it appears to be an exceptionally well thought-out and tasteful piece of hardware, something GM should have built five years ago.

There's a lot of careful work here, and if it works as good as it should (always a question when dealing with the automotive aftermarket...) it's quicker than any factory CTS-V, Z06, whatever.

And you (yes, I have to say it) clowns are obsessing over the badge? Get over it.

Go travel in Germany sometime. 90% of the Bimmers with 'M's on them are 523i's....and oddly enough putting "M" badges on a 523 is pretty lame too.

Kudos to him for building a Catera the way it should have been done, but putting "V" series badges on it is lame. Would you be defending him if he had an "M" badge on the car? I mean by your logic since his car is faster than an M5, he deserves an M5 logo right? :rolleyes2

T_Dogg8
07-07-04, 09:50 AM
the reason a type r badge and an m badge wouldn't fit is because it's not a beamer or an acura. a 'V' does not mean a cts-v. it means a cadillac performance car, which this is. rice is when you're advertising something you don't have. he has everything he advertises and more. therefore, i don't see how this can be 'rice'.

just a question for JEM, are those 523i's coming from the factory with the M badge?? becuase sometimes companies will do that in different countries.

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 09:59 AM
the reason a type r badge and an m badge wouldn't fit is because it's not a beamer or an acura. a 'V' does not mean a cts-v. it means a cadillac performance car, which this is.rice is when you're advertising something you don't have. Bingo, and he doesn't have a V.

he has everything he advertises and more. therefore, i don't see how this can be 'rice'. He has power, sure, but he still doesn't have a V. If I put Nitrous on a CTS and blow the doors off a CTS-V can I put a CTS-V logo on my car? Sure, but then I'd be advertising something I didn't have, which is a V car. "V" is not a "Level of Tune". "V" is a car worked on by the "V" performance group at Caddy. Did Cadillac put that badge on his car? Nope. Thus Rice.

just a question for JEM, are those 523i's coming from the factory with the M badge?? becuase sometimes companies will do that in different countries. some BMWs can get "M-Line" componets, like Wheels, suspension, etc. If you look at the sport wheels on a 3 series you'll see they come from the factory with M badges on the wheels, however they are not "M3"s .

T_Dogg8
07-07-04, 10:17 AM
if i showed you a '60s corvette with a z06 badge, you'd call it rice, but you wouldn't know whether it's a z06 or not. when you're talking a 'factory hotrod' i don't see a problem adding a badge and creating your own. it's not like he slapped a v badge on a cts and called it a cts-v. he put the work into it. all he's doing is saying 'hey this is a badass catera' without putting a sticker on his car that says 'hey this is a badass catera'.

rice is adding things to appear fast. if your car actually is fast, it's not rice.

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 10:32 AM
if i showed you a '60s corvette with a z06 badge, you'd call it rice, but you wouldn't know whether it's a z06 or not. If it was a real 1960s Z06, then fine, my initial recation would be "That's pretty lame".
when you're talking a 'factory hotrod' i don't see a problem adding a badge and creating your own. it's not like he slapped a v badge on a cts and called it a cts-v. so now you're saying it's okay for him to put a V badge on his car so long as it's not a CTS? That's silly. If he stuck a 427 into a CTS and put a V badge on it, that would be rice too.

he put the work into it. all he's doing is saying 'hey this is a badass catera' without putting a sticker on his car that says 'hey this is a badass catera'.

rice is adding things to appear fast. if your car actually is fast, it's not rice.Now you're changing deffinitions. Earlier you said "rice is when you're advertising something you don't have." Guess what he doesn't have a V.

Again V is not a level of Tune. A "V" is a car specially prepared by Cadillac. It represents a Factory-GM optioned special car with GM approved modifications and tuning. If he wanted to create his own badge "performance by Bob" or whatever, good for him, but putting the badge of a shop on his car that didn't work on his car is lame and rice.

rice is adding things to appear fast. if your car actually is fast, it's not rice.So if a Civic can pull 9s in the Qtr mile it's not rice for him to have Altezzas and a big spoiler?

T_Dogg8
07-07-04, 12:10 PM
if someone took a cts (like a wrecked one) and changed the engine, the shocks, and the side skirts and front and rear facia, i wouldn't have a problem with him putting a v on it. if someone takes a stock cts and adds a v badge, that's rice. do you see the difference in those two?? rice is the appearance of adding power when you're not.

a v is a level of tune prepared by cadillac. so you're half right. i agree with what you're saing about it being specially prepared with gm approved mods, however, i don't see a problem with adding a v badge to a car that is certainly worthy in the performance area to have it.

and finally, if a civic can pull 9s in the quarter, then no it would not be rice because he would not have the appearance of speed, he'd have speed.

basically, if you can back up what ever look you have with the power, then no, it's not rice.

Rickerbucks
07-07-04, 01:20 PM
I have no problem with V badging. So what. He wants something sublte to make his car disctinct from a 'normal' Catera. The V badging seems a natural to me. lets face it, only 1 in 10,000 is going to understand the V badge be it on a CTS or a Catera.

*shrug*

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 01:54 PM
I, for one, welcome you! Your Catera project looks like an incredibly well done sleeper. The "V" badge is a nice touch, and I have no problems with somebody borrowing said badge for such a sweet concept of a car. The suggestion to use a "Type R" badge is lame - because all know there is no typeR in the Cadillac line, and I think he does the V badge honor with his Catera. Besides, it is people who had dreams just as this that allowed the CTS/V to be created in the first place!

There is no coffee can for a muffler, at least not that I can so, so I don't see any rice, IMHO. Naysayers, flame suit is on, but you simply should not be so disrespectful to such an enthusiastic project and the owner should be commended, not chastised. I did commend him on the "project" putting a "V" series badge on a car that is not a "V" is still lame no matter how "deserving" the car is. Besides, having a "fast" car is all relative. His Catera may be "fast" in a striahgt line, but how does it compare int he corners? How does it compare in refinement?

Again V is not a level of Tune. A "V" is a car specially prepared by Cadillac

I think you all would be singing a different tune if he had a 12 second V6 CTS.

Shinkaze - is that a rice, er, I mean, oriental name? :pSo now we're asian bashing? :helpless:

wildwhl
07-07-04, 02:04 PM
So now we're asian bashing? :helpless:

Shinkaze,

No, was meant as another attempt to lighten up this discussion!

So, let's thread jack for a minute. I noticed on your website that you have some of those cool checkerboard tiles in your garage (under your very sweet CBR600RR (rice rocket as my dad always called them)).

I have 2 questions:

1) The RR - how do you like? My last Honda was a CBR600F3 that I enjoyed immensely, and I currently ride a Ducati Monster but plan to get back on an inline 4 bike. Been thinking R6 or R1, but have ALWAYS been partial to Hondas. Your thoughts?

2) Tles - how easy are they to keep clean/setup? Worth the expense, or are they more aesthetic than anything else?

Thanks, and sorry if any offense was taken by my "Shikaze" comment...none was intended.

Wildwhl

DgtalPimp
07-07-04, 02:14 PM
1) The RR - how do you like? My last Honda was a CBR600F3 that I enjoyed immensely, and I currently ride a Ducati Monster but plan to get back on an inline 4 bike. Been thinking R6 or R1, but have ALWAYS been partial to Hondas. Your thoughts?
Wildwhl

R1 (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/unitinfo/2/mcy/5/6/yamaha_yzf-r1.aspx) is the way to go.

Dgtal (dgtalpimp@pimpdaddy.com)

DgtalPimp
07-07-04, 02:16 PM
R1 (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/unitinfo/2/mcy/5/6/yamaha_yzf-r1.aspx) is the way to go.

Dgtal (dgtalpimp@pimpdaddy.com)

998cc, liquid-cooled, short-stroke, 20-valve, in-line four-cylinder engine designed to make 180 horsepower power at a stratospheric 12,500 rpm. Dgtal (dgtalpimp@pmipdaddy.com)

T_Dogg8
07-07-04, 02:25 PM
I think you all would be singing a different tune if he had a 12 second V6 CTS.
that's what i've been saying. it's only rice if you do a bunch of things (like add a badge) but don't upgrade the engine. so it looks like you have a really fast car, but in reality, it's a stock car with a badge. his isn't anything like that, therefore, not rice.

personally i think it's a cool car and he should be proud of it and cadillac owners should be proud a car of that caliber has the v badge. i feel the same way about that as i do the '62 corvette with a new z06 engine, brakes, and suspension that has a z06 badge on it.

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 02:41 PM
Shinkaze,

No, was meant as another attempt to lighten up this discussion! No prob.

So, let's thread jack for a minute. I noticed on your website that you have some of those cool checkerboard tiles in your garage (under your very sweet CBR600RR (rice rocket as my dad always called them)).

I have 2 questions:

1) The RR - how do you like? My last Honda was a CBR600F3 that I enjoyed immensely, and I currently ride a Ducati Monster but plan to get back on an inline 4 bike. Been thinking R6 or R1, but have ALWAYS been partial to Hondas. Your thoughts? All the 600s & 100's are more or less the same within their class. (speed, power handling, etc). Get the bike that apeals to your ergonomics first, and sense of style second. I got the 600RR because it felt very light and centralized. You really can't go wrong with any of them.

FWIW though my next sports bike will likely be either a 999S or a Mille. I'm considering building a "walmart" chopper as a second bike.

2) Tles - how easy are they to keep clean/setup? Worth the expense, or are they more aesthetic than anything else? Easy to clean so long as you don't pour a liquid on it. It's more aesthetic than practical, cost about $1000 for a 2 car garage.

Thanks, and sorry if any offense was taken by my "Shikaze" comment...none was intended.

WildwhlNo prob.

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 02:49 PM
that's what i've been saying. it's only rice if you do a bunch of things (like add a badge) but don't upgrade the engine. so it looks like you have a really fast car, but in reality, it's a stock car with a badge. his isn't anything like that, therefore, not rice. We'll just have to disagree then. At some point someone is going to put a "V" badge on a Cadillac Cimarron and argue his interior equals that of the CTS-V so he deserves the badge as well.
http://www.riekmann.prohosting.com/magazin/die_schlechtesten_autos/cadillac_cimarron.jpg

Either way, I feel, the only group that can build a "V" is Cadillac, build something better? Good for you here's a cookie, don't call it a "V".

personally i think it's a cool car and he should be proud of it and cadillac owners should be proud a car of that caliber has the v badge. i feel the same way about that as i do the '62 corvette with a new z06 engine, brakes, and suspension that has a z06 badge on it.I thought you were speaking of a C3 with the Z06 option from the factory. No, retro fitting a Z06 Driveline into an older vette does not a Z06 make. This reminds me of all those fake Muscle cars driving around like that Olds 442 on Hot Rod TV with a Chevy 350 motor in it. ugh...

T_Dogg8
07-07-04, 02:49 PM
[QUOTE=Shinkaze]I'm considering building a "walmart" chopper as a second bike. [\QUOTE]

what does that mean?? :hmm:

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 02:53 PM
Dgtal (dgtalpimp@pmipdaddy.com)The new R1 is a work of art for sure, but I think my next sport bike will be a V-Twin.

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 02:56 PM
I'm considering building a "walmart" chopper as a second bike.
what does that mean?? :hmm:Means I don't have the metal fab skills to build a "real" chopper from the ground up, so instead I'm buying a pre-fab "kit" from Choppers `R Us (OCC, WCC, etc) and will assemble it myself.

T_Dogg8
07-07-04, 04:16 PM
Means I don't have the metal fab skills to build a "real" chopper from the ground up, so instead I'm buying a pre-fab "kit" from Choppers `R Us (OCC, WCC, etc) and will assemble it myself.
oh...ok. i understand now. thanks

T_Dogg8
07-07-04, 04:22 PM
I thought you were speaking of a C3 with the Z06 option from the factory. No, retro fitting a Z06 Driveline into an older vette does not a Z06 make.
i'll agree to disagree. i feel as long as you have the performance (and i would have to add style into that as well) then you can put the badge on without being rice. i can understand questioning whether it should be done or not, but either way i still don't think it's rice.

i was talking about a '63, but i have also seen a '62 and it looked really sharp. some guys are starting to put the ls6 into an older corvette because of the driveablity of it. it's more reliable and easier to drive. and i've thought about buying a wrecked corvette and doing the same thing. and i think a little badge doesn't hurt it and adds a little to it. makes people curious and then they look to see why. if you had no reason for adding the badge, you would look stupid, but if you do have a reason it's a good conversation starter. the problem with the 'type R' and 'SiR' is, it's been overdone and done more by people with no mods than people with the correct mods.if done tastfully and done for a reason, i think it's a nice touch.

BeelzeBob
07-07-04, 04:51 PM
...and oddly enough putting "M" badges on a 523 is pretty lame too.

Kudos to him for building a Catera the way it should have been done, but putting "V" series badges on it is lame. Would you be defending him if he had an "M" badge on the car? I mean by your logic since his car is faster than an M5, he deserves an M5 logo right? :rolleyes2
Stop being ridiculous. The "Type R" and "M" badges have nothing to do with Cadillac. The "V" is a statement of Cadillac performance and if the guy has a Cadillac that performs as good as this one does, than it deserves the badge...


Either way, I feel, the only group that can build a "V" is Cadillac, build something better? Good for you here's a cookie, don't call it a "V".

He can call it whatever the hell he wants. If it upsets you, then that sucks - for you.

Anyway. Like Brett said a long, long time ago - and like you just said yourself - let's just agree to disagree.. Finally...

miscreant
07-07-04, 06:00 PM
so now you're saying it's okay for him to put a V badge on his car so long as it's not a CTS? That's silly. If he stuck a 427 into a CTS and put a V badge on it, that would be rice too.Hmmm. GM stuck a 350 in the CTS and put a "V" badge on it...


Again V is not a level of Tune. A "V" is a car specially prepared by Cadillac. It represents a Factory-GM optioned special car with GM approved modifications and tuning. Actually, the "V" DOES indicate a state of tune for the specific car. There will soon be an STS-V and an XLR-V. At that time, the term "V" will mean alot of cars.

However, I think the guys resume allows him, grants him, the HONOR to put the V badge on his car: "I worked for GM for 37 years, the last 25 in the vehicle dev group. I was fortunate enough to have worked on the 73 Eldo pace car, the 93 Allante pace car, and the 02-03 Seville LeMans pace cars. I was the lead development engineer on the Allante and the 98 Seville. I have a Catera with a 7L (427) C5R engine and a Camaro 6 spd that was built by John Lingenfelter Performance engineering"...and he put a V badge on it. Good for him. Sounds like he paved the way for the V series cars before they ever had a V on their car. Serves him right to be able to put a V on his Catera which would probably SMOKE a stock V.

Oh, PS: Many of the CTS body panels still are stamped "320 CADILLAC CATERA"!!!!!! I bet someone with an 04 CTS-V has a fender or two with CATERA written on it...:D

2004ctsv
07-07-04, 06:03 PM
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery:p

I'll bet he has baseball cards in his spokes to sound like a Harley ( and a little more reliable):devil:

gothicaleigh
07-07-04, 06:13 PM
I agree with Miscreant, if anyone can decide that a Catera is deserving of a V badge, it would be CateraV and John Lingenfelter...
Anyone else and I would question it, but one of GM's own special vehicle men and possibly the most famous of it's aftermarketeers? I say sure, I'll believe them when they say it's a pre-2003 Catera Touring Sedan V. ;) :p

At least I would say it has more claim to the V series badging than the CTS-V has to the Z06 badging. Putting those on is just rediculous. ;)

frank78
07-07-04, 06:14 PM
hello you look at the cadillac cts plastic grill it says catera on it....time to replace it with a chrome v-grill lol..

gothicaleigh
07-07-04, 06:23 PM
hello you look at the cadillac cts plastic grill it says catera on it....time to replace it with a chrome v-grill lol..


Yeah, I saw that. It's no secret where the CTS's name originally came from. It's the next gen Catera whether GM wants it to be saddled with that history or not...

I do suggest getting rid of that stock grey plastic grill however, any way you can, be it V-grill or whatever... :D

Also, if someone were insane enough to add all of the CTS-V upgrades (engine, trans, suspension, etc.) to a stock CTS, I would say that it would be okay to use the V badging, as the car would then be a V-series clone.
Just don't go trying to pass it off as such without all the pieces in place... :p

JEM
07-07-04, 06:51 PM
just a question for JEM, are those 523i's coming from the factory with the M badge?? becuase sometimes companies will do that in different countries.

BMW will sell you an M-badge for anything, basically.

You won't see many folks setting up with "M5" or "M3" badges, though it has been done.

I ordered my M5 with the badge-delete option, it's still got the doorsills and steering wheel and floor mats and all the underhood stuff but not the side or rear markings. A fairly common thing to do in Europe (where neither the guys who have the big motors, nor the guys who don't, particularly want to advertise what they've got) but it's the ONLY one I've ever seen in the US this way, and BMWNA stopped offering the option in the US after the 2000 model.

Dreamin
07-07-04, 08:46 PM
...most entertaining thread in months...

:getaway:

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 08:52 PM
BMW will sell you an M-badge for anything, basically.

You won't see many folks setting up with "M5" or "M3" badges, though it has been done.

I ordered my M5 with the badge-delete option, it's still got the doorsills and steering wheel and floor mats and all the underhood stuff but not the side or rear markings. A fairly common thing to do in Europe (where neither the guys who have the big motors, nor the guys who don't, particularly want to advertise what they've got) but it's the ONLY one I've ever seen in the US this way, and BMWNA stopped offering the option in the US after the 2000 model.Jem, My Neighbor has a debadged 2000 M5. I'll have to ask him if he did that himself.

All,
If you want to put "V" badges on a Catera be my Guest. Why not put them on a GTO too since it IS a 2-Door Catera with an LS1 V8 as well (soon to be a an LS2 and probably faster than an LS6 CTS-V). But remember a "V" badge isn't something you "earn". I can just as easily buy a base CTS throw on a wet Nitrous Kit and blow the doors off a CTS-V, doesn't mean I've "earned" a V badge. A V badge respresents a "Factory line" of cars. To claim this Catera "is" a V is a lie. To say that his car "IS" a V only devalues the cars that actually ARE Vs.

-Adam

DgtalPimp
07-07-04, 09:22 PM
I am thinking about making a DgtalPimping badge and sell it to any car that rocks.



Dgtal (dgtalpimp)

thebigjimsho
07-07-04, 09:33 PM
Well, this thread only did 2 things.

It shows gothicaleigh and miscreant are very wise and make points I was burning to make after reading the first page of this ridiculous thread.

It also shows shinkaze is a jerk for even putting this thread together.

This Catera is the precursor to our V. Our V is a natural descendant. I laugh at ricers who try to make their cars something that it's not. But this is not the case with the Catera. Whether or not this car served any inspiration to GM engineers to build the V, it came out first with the exact same ideals that are engineered into the V. In some cases better, in some, not.

The fact that this car is a CTS before that moniker came about and that it so closely resembles our V means it has the same spirit that its designer had as the ones at GM who FINALLY came out with the V.

Why not just drop it here, stop acting like a jerk and make the guy who owns this wonderful car feel more welcome. Catera V haters need to get a life.

I feel suckered for even having to spend 10 minutes on this dribble.

DgtalPimp
07-07-04, 09:40 PM
Well, this thread only did 2 things.

It shows gothicaleigh and miscreant are very wise and make points I was burning to make after reading the first page of this ridiculous thread.

It also shows shinkaze is a jerk for even putting this thread together.

This Catera is the precursor to our V. Our V is a natural descendant. I laugh at ricers who try to make their cars something that it's not. But this is not the case with the Catera. Whether or not this car served any inspiration to GM engineers to build the V, it came out first with the exact same ideals that are engineered into the V. In some cases better, in some, not.

The fact that this car is a CTS before that moniker came about and that it so closely resembles our V means it has the same spirit that its designer had as the ones at GM who FINALLY came out with the V.

Why not just drop it here, stop acting like a jerk and make the guy who owns this wonderful car feel more welcome. Catera V haters need to get a life.

I feel suckered for even having to spend 10 minutes on this dribble.
You saying your not gonna buy one of my badges to stick on?

Dgtal (dgtalpimip@pimpdaddy.com)

Z06CADY
07-07-04, 09:51 PM
I Don't Think Catera-v Is Asking Permission, Get Over It!

-1-
07-07-04, 10:18 PM
:shhh: A pair CTS-V emblems go for $40 on eBay. Anyone who knows anything about the CTS and the CTS-V would know a real CTS-V from a regular CTS with emblems. I believe I read that someone on this forum removed their CTS-V emblems. Was he passing his vehicle off as a CTS. NO! It is what it is.:lildevil:

BeelzeBob
07-07-04, 10:29 PM
Doesn't matter to me if the car has a million horsepower, it's only a "V" if it comes that way from the factory. Reminds me of folks putting "Z06" badges on their regular Corvettes. Heck I know a guy down in Florida that put a "Z06" badge on his LT1 C4 Corvette to try to increase his sales value. :tisk:

I've got no problem with putting one set of rims on another car, but don't badge your car as someting it isn't.


Get your head out of your ass.

That particular guy ( CateraV - I happen to know him personally ) has ALL the credentials to put whatever badge he wants to on his car. He knows more about "V" cars and Cadillacs than most people in the world, period.

Since anybody with a grain of sense knows that there was never a Catera "V" car no one (that matters) is going to be fooled by it. Anybody that is fooled by it is a cretin anyway and doesn't matter.

The car has sufficient performance to smoke any and every CTS-V on this forum so when you have a big enough stick come looking for CateraV and scrape that badge off....if you can catch him....LOL.

StealthV
07-07-04, 10:30 PM
The V you are referring to was debadged and Z06 ones put in its place. To each their own. Spend 50+ large on a car, paint it pink for all I care, its your money. :) Just don't call my red calipers rice, lol.

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 10:34 PM
Well, this thread only did 2 things.

It shows gothicaleigh and miscreant are very wise and make points I was burning to make after reading the first page of this ridiculous thread.

It also shows shinkaze is a jerk for even putting this thread together.FYI the moderator split the thread and created it with my post being first so it looks like I started this thread... I did not.

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 10:40 PM
Get your head out of your ass.

That particular guy ( CateraV - I happen to know him personally ) has ALL the credentials to put whatever badge he wants to on his car. He knows more about "V" cars and Cadillacs than most people in the world, period.

Since anybody with a grain of sense knows that there was never a Catera "V" car no one (that matters) is going to be fooled by it. Anybody that is fooled by it is a cretin anyway and doesn't matter.

The car has sufficient performance to smoke any and every CTS-V on this forum so when you have a big enough stick come looking for CateraV and scrape that badge off....if you can catch him....LOL.Oh puh-lease. His car is faster than yours so he's allowed to lie about what kind of car he has? News Flash, "Fast" is relative, there is always faster. My Honda (http://www.shinkaze.com/honda/images/full-garage.jpg) pulls mid tens at 130mph, does that make me right and him wrong? Should we start comparing time slips to detemine who is "right" in an argument?

Besides I thought the V was going after the M division? The M cars are only 20% speed the rest being equal parts, handling, brakes, luxury and refinement. So this Catera makes up for the rest by having a "really big stick?"

As I said kudos to him for making a neat car. But trying to pass his car off as a "V" is trying to claim it's something it isn't (http://www.ecubed.com/bmw/CrapBMWDelSol/)...which is the definition of rice.

BeelzeBob
07-07-04, 10:41 PM
FYI the moderator split the thread and created it with my post being first so it looks like I started this thread... I did not.
This is true. I split the thread. Shinkaze didn't start/name this thread. I split it from the "Catera-V" thread since Catera-V didn't need his thread hijacked with all of this.

Can we close this thread now? I think all that needed to be said - has been said...

miscreant
07-07-04, 10:48 PM
Oh puh-lease. His car is faster than yours so he's allowed to lie about what kind of car he has? News Flash, "Fast" is relative, there is always faster. My Honda (http://www.shinkaze.com/honda/images/full-garage.jpg) pulls mid tens at 130mph, does that make me right and him wrong? Should we start comparing time slips to detemine who is "right" in an argument?

Besides I thought the V was going after the M division? The M cars are only 20% speed the rest being equal parts, handling, brakes, luxury and refinement. So this Catera makes up for the rest by having a "really big stick?"

As I said kudos to him for making a neat car. But trying to pass his car off as a "V" is trying to claim it's something it isn't (http://www.ecubed.com/bmw/CrapBMWDelSol/)...which is the definition of rice.
I'll lend you a shovel...it'll make the dig easier.

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 10:49 PM
This is true. I split the thread. Shinkaze didn't start/name this thread. I split it from the "Catera-V" thread since Catera-V didn't need his thread hijacked with all of this.

Can we close this thread now? I think all that needed to be said - has been said...Kill it. I've said what I'm gonna say on this and I think everyone else has too.

miscreant
07-07-04, 10:51 PM
Kill it. I've said what I'm gonna say on this and I think everyone else has too.
I FINALLY agree!!!! WOOHOO...

BeelzeBob
07-07-04, 10:54 PM
Oh puh-lease. His car is faster than yours so he's allowed to lie about what kind of car he has? News Flash, "Fast" is relative, there is always faster. My Honda (http://www.shinkaze.com/honda/images/full-garage.jpg) pulls mid tens at 130mph, does that make me right and him wrong? Should we start comparing time slips to detemine who is "right" in an argument?

Besides I thought the V was going after the M division? The M cars are only 20% speed the rest being equal parts, handling, brakes, luxury and refinement. So this Catera makes up for the rest by having a "really big stick?"

As I said kudos to him for making a neat car. But trying to pass his car off as a "V" is trying to claim it's something it isn't (http://www.ecubed.com/bmw/CrapBMWDelSol/)...which is the definition of rice.

Who is lying..??? Like I said, anyone with a grain of sense knows there was no such thing as a Catera V from the factory..??? Not like he is taking a V6 CTS and putting the badges and grill in.

Personally, if you have a Honda that runs 10's you can put whatever you want on it because obviously any one with a grain of sense will know that it isn't the way the factory made it.

I really can't see how anyone could get so upset over a badge on a car. Of course, I bet that if it was YOUR's it would be "OK"..... LOL

thebigjimsho
07-07-04, 10:55 PM
This is true. I split the thread. Shinkaze didn't start/name this thread. I split it from the "Catera-V" thread since Catera-V didn't need his thread hijacked with all of this.

Can we close this thread now? I think all that needed to be said - has been said...Well then I apolgize for attacking shinkaze for starting the thread.

I still think he's got a little too much time to be worrying about the image of our cars.

And Catera V........:welcome:

BeelzeBob
07-07-04, 10:58 PM
Bbob, you friggin instigator. :rofl:

Okay. Can we close it NOW? (I'm feeling like the Verizon guy)...




... Can we close it now? :p

miscreant
07-07-04, 11:01 PM
The way I see it was this car was built before the V ever came to be, in fact, this car was built before or right as the CTS itself came out. So maybe the guy feels he participated in some way - perhaps his is the first "V like" Cadillac in a way.

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 11:02 PM
Bbob, you friggin instigator. :rofl:

Okay. Can we close it NOW? (I'm feeling like the Verizon guy)...




... Can we close it now? :pone more thing,

Bob, my Honda is a CBR motorcycle. it runs 10s stock.
http://www.shinkaze.com/honda/images/full-garage.jpg

Just had to clarify :D

BeelzeBob
07-07-04, 11:10 PM
one more thing,

Bob, my Honda is a CBR motorcycle it runs 10s stock.

Just had to clarify :D


So I assume you are not going to start putting V-Rod emblems on it ....???


LOL LOL


I have one of the old Honda CBX six cylinders. Bought it new in 1979 and still have it. Current 2 wheeler is a Yamaha FJR1300. It might run 10's but not with my butt on the seat....LOL LOL

Shinkaze
07-07-04, 11:12 PM
So I assume you are not going to start putting V-Rod emblems on it ....??? Now why would I put emblems of something "slower" on it? :D

But I guess that's the point of this whole thread huh? well off to put Honda Civic Type R stickers on my bike :D

BeelzeBob
07-07-04, 11:19 PM
Now why would I put emblems of something "slower" on it? :D

But I guess that's the point of this whole thread huh? well off to put Honda Civic Type R stickers on my bike :D

Explain how "slow" V-Rods are to Vance and Hines.... LOL. Just joking.
Those Type R emblems will look nice on that Honda CBR.

Catera V
07-08-04, 02:03 AM
Shinkaze, I do understand your point about dilution of the of the brand by rebadging a car as something that it is not. I took the liberty with this car because as a Cadillac Vehicle Development Engineer for 25 years, employee for 37, I felt this car earned the right to the badge. John installed the engine and trans and I developed the chassis, just as I have on many of the Cadillacs in the last 25 years. I even worked on the CTS prior to my retirement. Check out my photo album you will find many interesting cars I have contribued to. I am glad you support the brand but to every rule their is an exception.-Fred

T_Dogg8
07-08-04, 08:01 AM
if nothing else, it's a conversation starter. and the fact that he has the car to back up the badge is good enough for me to say he deserves it. good work Catera V, i like what you've done. i bet you have a lot of good stories from your years doing that job.

Shinkaze
07-08-04, 09:59 AM
Shinkaze, I do understand your point about dilution of the of the brand by rebadging a car as something that it is not. I took the liberty with this car because as a Cadillac Vehicle Development Engineer for 25 years, employee for 37, I felt this car earned the right to the badge. John installed the engine and trans and I developed the chassis, just as I have on many of the Cadillaccs in the last 25 years. I even worked on the CTS prior to my retirement. Check out my photo album you will find many interesting cars I have contribued to. I am glad you support the brand butto every rule their is an exception.-Fred
Fred,
Just to be clear I do love your car and think this is what the Catera should have been. I think if the Catera had a V8 option it would have been a more succesful car and that Cadillac would have more of a performance image than it does today, but I guess thats the direction leadership is taking the company with the V-Line. At any rate, we may differ on the badge issue, but then I'm one of those "numbers matching" freaks that gets all worked up when I see a 1969 Z28 with the wrong motor between the rails.

BTW in your tenure at GM did you ever run into Cardy Davis? He was the Corvette Platform manager before Hill. FWIW I just got engaged to his niece this past winter. (Not sure how "small" of a company GM is these days :hmm:)

-Adam

Cal
07-08-04, 10:00 AM
I was thinking of borrowing my V badges for the Explorer when I put the G-Tech in it.

Catera V
07-08-04, 01:31 PM
I knew of Cardy, and we probably did meet at some time but we never worked closely together. I have had Corvettes over the years and I always modified them also. I have no problem with NCRS types and the desire to keep the cars as the General built them, I think it shows respect. However if development engineers thought the way you did we'd still be driving a model T. Where do you live? I would love to give you a ride in my fake car.

Z06CTSV
07-08-04, 01:48 PM
I don't see any problems with doing whatever you want to your property or vehicle, of course as long as it doesn't hurt or affect someone else. Even a word can affect different people in different ways depending on it's usage, and who is saying it. Some people are going to love it, some will hate using the V. Life goes on.. I thought it was funny though when I saw a older model nissan sentra with ground affects and BMW M badging.

Joe
New Orleans

T_Dogg8
07-08-04, 02:11 PM
I knew of Cardy, and we probably did meet at some time but we never worked closely together. I have had Corvettes over the years and I always modified them also. I have no problem with NCRS types and the desire to keep the cars as the General built them, I think it shows respect. However if development engineers thought that way you would still be driving a model T. Where do you live? I would love to give you a ride in my fake car.where are you at?? i'd love just to see your car.

do you still have any vette's?? if so, what have you done to them?? i was born and raised on vettes.

DgtalPimp
07-08-04, 02:12 PM
I agree, I wanna get a real slow Kia and put a Z06 on one side, and a V on the other. On the back I was thinking about F50 on the left, and 959 on the right.

:lildevil:
Dgtal (dgtalpimp@pimpdaddy.com)

T_Dogg8
07-08-04, 02:13 PM
I don't see any problems with doing whatever you want to your property or vehicle, of course as long as it doesn't hurt or affect someone else. Even a word can affect different people in different ways depending on it's usage, and who is saying it. Some people are going to love it, some will hate using the V. Life goes on.. I thought it was funny though when I saw a older model nissan sentra with ground affects and BMW M badging.

Joe
New Orleans
that would be weird. it was like that del sol with bmw badges. i think it's one thing to put a badge on your car that is actually from the company that builds your car and completely different to put badges on from something completely different.

Z06CTSV
07-08-04, 02:23 PM
I'm 40, and I remember when people tried to hid what engine they had. And car companies under rated horsepower claims. I guess today it's all about Bling-Bling..


Joe
New Orleans

gothicaleigh
07-08-04, 02:24 PM
When I get a V, I'm thinking of removing the V badges... or at least moving them down on the fender to be in line with the door strip. Where they are placed now is terrible.

CadV
07-08-04, 02:38 PM
It doesn't matter how justified everyone makes it sound the car is not a V! To add the badge is rice plain and simple. :rant2:

BeelzeBob
07-08-04, 02:56 PM
It doesn't matter how justified everyone makes it sound the car is not a V! To add the badge is rice plain and simple. :rant2:

Holy f'in YAWN! :banghead:

JEM
07-08-04, 03:02 PM
I am glad you support the brand but to every rule their is an exception.-Fred

It's a nice piece of hardware, looks to have been done 'right'. Put whatever badge you want on it. I'll send you an //M badge if you want one...;)

Funny, I'd called LPE somewhere back 'round early 1999 and inquired if they'd be looking at or interested in doing a Catera LS1 swap, but I guess it was a bit too early.

Did you get access to any of the 'Omega V8' bits that never quite got to production?

Vesicant
07-08-04, 03:24 PM
Oh cmon people.

This is ridiculous.

Catera, came before the CTS. Cadillac wanted a better one, so they made it. And did the name change while they were at it. Called it the CTS. Just like they are doing with the DeVille and SeVille.

V-Line : A high performance version of the Cadillac. It just started to make its visual statement with the CTS... the CTS is in effect, a new and totally re-done Catera. The New CTS: Simmular engine (3.2 vs smaller 3.0), the same market, same competitors, and the same rank in the Cadillac product line.

If things didnt change, and the V-Line became what it is today, and Cadillac chose the CTS or CATERA to be the first one to get the V treatment... you'd have a Catera-V which is just the same as having a CTS-V today. Like it or not. Its how things came into play. It is also cool how the owner of that Catera kept this in mind, and followed through.

Cant a man do what he pleases?

Cheers to John Lingenfelter (may he RIP), Cheers to Fred Wood, Bbob, Cadillac Motorcar Division, GM, and the person who asked JL to retrofit his catera to CTS-V standards.

(this looks like a good place to end this thread)

cadillac04
07-08-04, 03:38 PM
END


END



END



END

miscreant
07-08-04, 04:55 PM
It doesn't matter how justified everyone makes it sound the car is not a V! To add the badge is rice plain and simple. :rant2:
:gnome: :gnome: :gnome: :gnome: :gnome:

Call Cadillac and yell at them - tell them they better not make an STS-V, or an XLR-V, or an ESCALADE-V, or an SRX-V, or an...Because then you won't be able to designate YOUR CTS-V as just a "V" anymore...:crying:

Vesicant
07-08-04, 04:58 PM
Rofl!










(I wonder if anyone saw my last statement on pg 4...)

CadV
07-08-04, 05:10 PM
:gnome: :gnome: :gnome: :gnome: :gnome:

Call Cadillac and yell at them - tell them they better not make an STS-V, or an XLR-V, or an ESCALADE-V, or an SRX-V, or an...Because then you won't be able to designate YOUR CTS-V as just a "V" anymore...:crying:
This is not an issue of cars coming from factory with a V badge. If the car does not come from factory with a V badge it is rice.

T_Dogg8
07-08-04, 05:16 PM
This is not an issue of cars coming from factory with a V badge. If the car does not come from factory with a V badge it is rice.
no, if a car does not come from the factory with a v badge and one is added and NOTHING ELSE, that is rice. rice means you are adding appearance mods to LOOK faster. if you add performance mods, you're not rice, plain and simple.

miscreant
07-08-04, 05:18 PM
This thread is so disrespectful to this guy. I almost which it could just be deleted. So disrespectful...:helpless:

Shinkaze
07-08-04, 05:19 PM
please kill this thread...it really wants to die.....

T_Dogg8
07-08-04, 05:23 PM
This thread is so disrespectful to this guy. I almost which it could just be deleted. So disrespectful...:helpless:i feel bad i've participated in it, but i didn't want the 'haters' to be the only ones heard. i think what he did is great and i think the badge is the perfect added touch to finish it off. this is going to be my last post on this topic, if you want to 'hate' just reread my posts, that's how i feel about it.

i still want to see the car in person. what part of the country are you in?? and do you/have you taken any of your vettes to carlisle??

DgtalPimp
07-08-04, 05:36 PM
Posted for this thread by DgtalPimp (dgtalpimp@pimpdaddy.com)

Please kill me
the thread.



Dgtal (dgtalpimp@pimpdaddy.com)

cadillacchris
07-08-04, 06:22 PM
:banghead: Please stop this madness!!!!!

Anyone who puts a V badge or a Type R or a M or AMG or any other badge on a car is fooling himself and trying to fool the ignorant people around him that think that , a badge make the car special or unique. The fact is the car might be sporty or even faster then stock, but the truth lies in the Vin numbers and the Vin says its a stock 1SA package car that an owner who cant afford a V is trying to pawn off as a V. Flat out Posser and too boot if you were looking to buy or award a car in a carshow and that car was from lets say 1974 and it was a torino just because it was painted like starsky and hutch doesn't mean that it has the clevland engine and you would never respect that person for pawning off a cheap replica or if you bought a ring and the said it was a D colorless diamond that was flawless, thats exactly what you we looking for not a J with D badging. . .the point all remains the same. It's retarded to badge up a car, hell I drive a CTS and I wanted a V but cant affored it, so enjoy the fact you have a Cadillac and be secure enough in your self to know that your car is nice with out the Stupid Badging.

P.S does it make the elante and XLR if I switch the badging?
No cadillac enthusist would fall for that, just your average Honda type R badging idot would.

miscreant
07-08-04, 06:47 PM
The fact is the car might be sporty or even faster then stock, but the truth lies in the Vin numbers and the Vin says its a stock 1SA package car that an owner who cant afford a V is trying to pawn off as a V.
Did you even read the thread?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Stoneage_Caddy
07-08-04, 06:52 PM
damn people , here we have a engineer on the order of bbob (apprently co workers). he devloped the chassis on it, he worked for gm for like 35 years , and because of him your cars are what they are (if i read his posts right). Hes not putting the badge on there with the same mindset as a kid with a type r sticker and a 15 year old accord . This car is more of a "what if " , a "shoulda been" conecpt car .

I think about doing similar things , like takeing an totaled c4 vette and rebuling it into a "what coulda been" period correct 94 Allante' , or maybe a "what if " 83 Chevelle hacked out of a 81 Malibu 2 Door sedan , with a period correct crossfire 350 (i belive this was the most potent 350 of that year) . Is it right ? who cares ! would it be fun outside haters ? YES !

Catera V dude , your cars cool in my book

edit : side note , im adding Suzuki 'Busa Emblems to my 37cc Pocketbike after i paint it the same color as the caddy :hide:

Brett
07-08-04, 10:56 PM
Sandy. i know its a long thread, but do yourself a favor and read it.

You guys need to show some respect for this guy. it would seem that his projects led to the V in the first place. If you cant handle him using the V, get over it. 25 years in special vehicle development....he deserves to do whatever he wants. Christ, John Lingenfelter himself put the V emblem on there. And you call that rice!! Thats the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard.

Catera V, sweet car. and thanks for all the work you've done over the years for our favorite brand. its people like you that have the passion and ability to make these things happen and we're lucky to have you here.

Seems like a good place to end this thread :)

BeelzeBob
07-09-04, 10:13 AM
Just a final word... Thank you, Catera V...