: I am so apathetic.



Benjamin Simon
03-18-09, 11:18 PM
:dammit:I am almost so apathetic about GM and Cadillac I was not going to bother to post my thoughts. However, nothing will change unless I voice my concerns.

Long story short, the telescopic steering on my STS needed to be replaced. It had always worked fine. The motion was quite and smooth. A few weeks ago, the telescopic steering broke. It was making this horrible grinding sound and sometimes, would not function all together. The steering column was replaced under warranty. It now functions correctly and the grinding sound is gone.


However, it makes the very noticeable loud click sound whenever the wheel motions downwards. There is no question in my mind that this is not normal. It is extremely annoying and concerns me that something else might break inside the steering column. It sounds like there is just too much play in the gears. However, I was told by the service advisor and manager told me that is normal, blah, blah, blah.


So, I went to get a second opinion at another dealership 30 miles away. I had the service advisor look at it without knowing any of the history, and he said, "Oh, some of them do that, it is really not a problem." I guess it must be me againÖ

I am so frustrated and disappointed with GM, Cadillac, and anyone who feels I am being too demanding. I realize I am a demanding customer. But :dammit:, I purchased a Cadillac because I am a demanding customer!! I am just sick and tired of being disappointed with Cadillac service, lack of fit and finish, and reliability of the fit and finish.

With any other auto manufacture, I could call their customer service line and have them fix this silliness. I did that a few months ago regarding a separate issue. You know what I got, some poor sucker in India telling me how sorry she was for my trouble. It was almost amusing. She would start every sentence with, "I am so sorry for you trouble" and end every sentence with "I absolutely understand your concern". It was obvious the poor soul was reading from a computer screen. I asked to speak to a supervisor and was told one was not available. I was told one would call me, which never happened. I called back and I went through the same BS. Nevertheless, nothing was resolved and it was a waste of my time. I decided to fix the situation myself. Now I have a $63,135 Cadillac still under factory warranty with JB weld holding the damn seat in place to stop it from rocking. Now how white trash is that??

So with this being said, I am not sure if I will buy another Cadillac. My old lady / wife drives a CL500. At first, I thought it was going to be a nightmare to repair and service. In the last year, I have had to take it in twice for mostly small problems. On the other hand, I have had my STS in the shop for perhaps 10 times over the same period. Half of those times were due to having to return because the grease monkeys did not fix it correctly.
Sure I have had to take the CL-Class in for service; however, one serious difference occurs. THEY FIX EVERYTHING THE FIRST TIME WITHOUT BRAIN DAMAGED EXCUSES!!!

My rant tonight was a cry for help. I love Cadillac and GM. I want so deeply for them to be successful. Please, someone help them!

There I am done. :bricks:

Superjim
03-18-09, 11:53 PM
I feel your pain and understand. All too well.

I too am a pretty demanding customer.

My 1980 Sedan de Ville, was in the shop TWICE in 20 years and 250,000 miles.
Both times it was for the electric antenna which broke and I had it replaced.

My 1984 Fleetwood Brougham de Elegance was NEVER in the shop...not even one time, in 16 years. The only repairs it ever needed was a water pump and a fuel pump. A friend who owned a garage replaced the water pump and I replaced the fuel pump myself.

My 2006 has been in the shop close to a dozen times for various things...none of them were REAL MAJOR, but it was things I couldn't do myself.

Entire NAV system/Radio replaced...Drivers Door module...drivers seat module...Passenger door module...AC seats 2 times...trunk brake light replaced...etc etc etc.

The quality is just not what it used to be.
I recently purchased the GMPP extended warranty because it has been in the shop so many times and I figure it will be again. :banghead:

Texas Jim

Zpak
03-19-09, 09:02 AM
i have an 08 after one year..no visits to dlr. ..very happy with cadiilac.
i had 04 ext escalade and happy with that as well.

Greg00coupe
03-19-09, 12:37 PM
YEP GM has a problem with their service............. I've never been happy with any service I've had to endure. I say endure because I try to avoid the dealership at all cost. I have been fortunate to find some good independents. Frankly they were all former GM techs who had seen enough and had the courage to move out on their own.

My most telling experience is when I took my Corvette in for a recall and the service manager says oh I know you're particular about your car. I watched the entire process from the waiting room. But when I got into the car it reaked of smoke. The tech did not smoke in the car but was so imbedded with smoke it got sucked into my interior for few days. Minor issue but indicitative of the dealers business approach.

Benjamin Simon
03-19-09, 07:38 PM
i have an 08 after one year..no visits to dlr. ..very happy with cadiilac.
i had 04 ext escalade and happy with that as well.

To be clear. I am happy with my STS. I am very happy with the car itself. I do expect problems to come up. I do not have a problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is the lack of customer service. I should never have to bring something back 3 and 4 times for the same issue. It is sloppy and uncalled for.

IMO, the service is so horrible that it ruins the entire Cadillac experiance. :banghead:

justgreat
03-20-09, 07:50 PM
there are two issues being discussed here: quality and service. every car has quality issues: EVERY car; but, how that problem is treated when you bring it to your dealer is the core issue.

let me be clear: i have been relatively happy with the service i have received on the few nit-picking problems that i brought the car in for. but when a car maker has a tarnished reputation like gm, it doesn't take much so-so service to further dampen customer satisfaction.

i love my sts for it's style, handling and performance, but i would be hard pressed to buy another caddy, all things considered.


jackg
06 sts6

shudog
03-23-09, 11:15 PM
Following your story here and trying to understand the underlying issue of why a dealership wouldn't do everything in their power, like replacing the steering column again, to make the car like new and keep a customer happy. When warranty work is done, who actually pays, the dealer or GM? Does GM have policies that "reward" dealers for blowing off warranty work or fixing it in a low-buck halfassed manner?

ahuyghe
03-24-09, 01:15 AM
I feel your pain brother. My dealership asked me to kindly not bring my 07 STS back to them anymore for warranty issues. Apparently i too am a demanding customer. Although for almost every repair, it had to be brought back due to the dealerships sloppy workmanship.

I am currently looking at Mercedes.

Al

shudog
03-25-09, 10:28 PM
No answer to my question?

amgqmp1
03-26-09, 12:25 PM
The experience at any service shop (dealer or independent) can be drastically different. My worst experience at any shop in over a decade was for an MB that I had a year or two ago. I live in central Iowa (West Des Moines)...and they are the only MB dealer I know of within 100 miles of here. I ended up exclusively using the only other shop choice available to me, the expensive and only mid-competent indepedent. You're very lucky to have access to a good shop.

Remember, it's a Merc...they often need special tools for the simplest of tasks (e.g. alignment). That being said, good call on the CL500...they're a much better car than my E class was. :)

Transversely, getting some new front brakes put on my Jeep at a Car-X was a shining example of good service. It was cheap, the mechanic did a great/quick job (I waited at the shop while they did the work). He even took the time to clean/lube my rear drum brakes, and fix a stuck interior lock...at no charge.

I agree with you on the fit & finish issues of the STS. My '05 has 15,400 miles on it, and it has the following common examples of epic fail:

- Start button chipping away
- Both front seats have begun squeaking...which is really irking me (I'm 5'11" @ 200lbs.). The passenger seat is worse and happens with lady friends that are <= 150lbs.

I can definitely live with both...although, it seems a bit sad that a car with 15,000 miles on it is so fragile in some simple ways. My '05 is out of warranty, so, I'm going to swing by the local Caddy dealership today to see what my costs are for getting these things fixed.

From the looks of it, they're higher maintenance than the last generation. I had a '94 SLS that only needed one repair (water pump failure) in the 50K miles that I drove it within a two year period of owning it. It was a higher mileage one too (75K-125K mi.). It blew the head gasket 50 miles after I traded it in (the salesman said he was doing some spirited driving around town). I'm hopeful they solved that head gasket issue, as I plan on keeping this one for a while. It's one of the most enjoyable cars to drive that I've owned in a while (and that's a lot of cars).

In the end, I hope you're able to find a good shop to take care of the Caddy. I also hope the dealership I visit today is still as good as they were so many years ago... :)

BarryNS
03-27-09, 10:23 AM
I am currently looking at Mercedes.



You know, it seems to me that the action you should take will depend only on whether you like the STS or not. Changing to a Mercedes because you aren't happy with a specific dealer isn't going to give you an STS ride.

I had similar experiences to you with the STS and in 2005 boght a new top of the line Lexus which I traded in after 3 months for a new STS. In 2008 I again bought a Lexus 460L and again after 1 year gave it up for a 2008 STS. My wife has Mercedes 250clk convertible and I can't stand driving it.

The STS ride cannot be replaced as far as I'm concerned. I would go to another dealer or make loud complaints to Cadillac.

ahuyghe
03-28-09, 03:49 AM
The STS ride cannot be replaced as far as I'm concerned. I would go to another dealer or make loud complaints to Cadillac.

I agree with you 100% about the ride, don't get me wrong, I really love this car, I've always wanted one and finally was able to buy one, but the quality of the car, (way too many breakdowns) and the treatment from the dealership and Cadillac as a whole has made the whole experience of owning a Cadillac a real nightmare. Right now i have a 2 1/2 hour drive to the next Cadillac dealership and that is just unacceptable.

Time to move to another brand of luxury sports car, but you can bet i'll be weighing in both the car and the dealerships service department very closely before i plunk my money down this time.

Al

Al

bsr22
03-29-09, 09:32 PM
"some poor sucker in India"..........."Now how white trash is that"........."My old lady / wife drives a CL500"........"because the grease monkeys did not fix it correctly"

I can't agree more regarding the need for excellence when receiving customer service. However, in reading your rant I couldn't help but wonder if your attitude and/or outlook on life may be contributing to your dissatisfaction?

Do unto others...... and you usually reap what you sow.

ryannel2003
03-30-09, 09:49 AM
It's really unfortunate when a person buys a $60k Cadillac and gets treated like a $15k Cobalt owner. I'm fortunate though, because my dealership has been very helpful in getting all the issues on my '00 STS fixed, even though it doesn't have a warranty. When the windshield leaked they replaced it for free; on a 9 year old car. One of the techs accidentally broke my valet switch and they paid for that as well.

I fully understand why Lexus is where they are at today. Most Caddy dealers are bundled with GMC-Pontiac-Buick dealers, and I feel that most of the techs do not respond to owners who expect perfection from their vehicles.

Benjamin Simon
03-30-09, 10:28 PM
You know, it seems to me that the action you should take will depend only on whether you like the STS or not. Changing to a Mercedes because you aren't happy with a specific dealer isn't going to give you an STS ride.

I had similar experiences to you with the STS and in 2005 boght a new top of the line Lexus which I traded in after 3 months for a new STS. In 2008 I again bought a Lexus 460L and again after 1 year gave it up for a 2008 STS. My wife has Mercedes 250clk convertible and I can't stand driving it.

The STS ride cannot be replaced as far as I'm concerned. I would go to another dealer or make loud complaints to Cadillac.


CLK Class? Try the ride on a CL Class, ABC is incredible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Body_Control
MRC is a joke compared to ABC. However, I heard repairs on the ABC might require a HELCO for those not prepared.

I suppose my saddness with Cadillac, thus GM, is the piss poor mindset. Perhaps I have not been to that "dealer" to prove elsewise.

amgqmp1
03-30-09, 10:41 PM
I fully understand why Lexus is where they are at today. Most Caddy dealers are bundled with GMC-Pontiac-Buick dealers, and I feel that most of the techs do not respond to owners who expect perfection from their vehicles.

I agree with you that the average Lexus dealer likely has a much higher customer satisfaction rating. They don't have to deal with replacing the little stuff that should never have made it out the door...(e.g. the chipping "Start" button).

However, I believe Lexus has been successful for two reasons:

- Branding...they originally came to market with a luxury brand that wasn't "your grandpa's car".

- Quality...it's a Toyota. The last two Toyota's I drove were friends...both had 275K+ miles on them.

Benjamin Simon
03-30-09, 10:49 PM
I can't agree more regarding the need for excellence when receiving customer service. However, in reading your rant I couldn't help but wonder if your attitude and/or outlook on life may be contributing to your dissatisfaction?

Do unto others...... and you usually reap what you sow.

I am extremely focused and intense people when it come to conducting business. Yes, I have the same expectations for others. Especially when one spends $54K (Which is GMS price, MSRP $63,135, my father works for GM). When it come to others halfassing their way through life, I have no tolerance. Sorry. Absolutely, none. :mob:

Perhaps my rant was not clear. It is not that I am frustrated that my car keeps breaking, or they cannot fix it on a 3rd and 4th time. My depression is that they do not care!! I understand people make mistakes.

Perhaps I should add to my rant that once I took the car in for service on something very minor that they were placing. If recall, it was to replace the ECM. It should have been play and plug. Perhaps a 30 minute job. I dropped by car off in the morning and they gave me a rental. I come back at the end of the day. THEY FORGOT TO DO IT! I was like :wtf:. I called Cadillac customer service to voice my concern. I felt the dealership stole from GM, since GM had to pay for the rental. What did I get from the poor sucker in India? "I am so sorry! Things like this happen! I am so sorry". :violin:

I downfall of GM is not cause by Toyota, Union wages, global warming, nit wick Rick, or terrorist, it is GM lost a culture in which one is committed to excellence. :thepan:

Sorry, about the rant. I real life and at the Benz dealership, I am actually a pleasant person.
:bouncy:

Benjamin Simon
03-30-09, 10:52 PM
"your grandpa's car".


:o I always wanted my grandpa's car.

bsr22
03-31-09, 12:44 PM
When it come to others halfassing their way through life, I have no tolerance. Sorry. Absolutely, none. :mob:

it is GM lost a culture in which one is committed to excellence. :thepan:

Sorry, about the rant. I real life and at the Benz dealership, I am actually a pleasant person.
:bouncy:

I hear you loud and clearÖ..and thanks for not starting a flame war as that was not the intent of my previous post.

I agree with you, especially regarding the culture of excellence. I set the bar extremely high for customer service expectations from my employees and will not tolerate anything less than 100% satisfaction (not an automotive or public service business).

That said; we have one high maintenance customer that occasionally expects services outside the scope of our contract and itís my job to adjust his expectations or the scope of our contract. Iíve worked with this customer to let ME know when he is not satisfied and to not take it out on my employees. 99+% of the time the employees do an outstanding job at keeping all customers satisfied. When they don't or can't I view it as my responsiblity to correct the situation.

My point? I think itís possible that the dealership you are working with has low expectations and this attitude may be a reflection of the Service Manager or possibly the General Manager. This leaves two basic choices; work with your dealership to improve service, or find another dealership. Obviously, this assumes you donít switch to MB.

Iíve had success with meeting with my Service Writer, Service Manager and General Manager in previous situations when I was not satisfied with service. I do my best not to berate the service technician in the process. My focus was to provide direct feedback to the folks responsible near the ground level for keeping us happy. I give them the opportunity to address the situation first. It works more often than not. If it doesnít, I escalate the issue with Corporate Customer Service.

Frankly with the current status of GM folks working for Corporate, to include Regional Service Managers, are more interested in keeping a job than making significant improvements with customer service (my perspective). Until GM returns to stable footing I donít expect to see many changes and itís a shame.

For what itís worth I currently have a Mercedes and honestly Iím not impressed with the basic engineering for some components of the car. For example, the placement of an electronic automatic transmission shift module directly under a cup holder. One firm braking incident caused the module to short out (liquids/electronics donít mix well). The result was to replace the entire shifter assembly because you canít procure just the electronic module. Dumb engineeringÖ..dumb replacement parts planning. Each company has their own issues.

In fact, the STS I purchased last week is the replacement for the Mercedes. So far I am very impressed with the STS.

Good luck! :thumbsup:

ahuyghe
04-01-09, 05:29 PM
[QUOTE=bsr22;1828064]

In fact, the STS I purchased last week is the replacement for the Mercedes. So far I am very impressed with the STS.

QUOTE]

Darn, Too bad, maybe we could have worked something out! Was it the CLK?
I'm currently working on a SLK350. Not even a close comparison, to the STS but it moves well and is a nice convertible and fits the bill for this portion of my life. I'm no longer in need of a rear seat.

Al

amgqmp1
04-01-09, 07:01 PM
For what itís worth I currently have a Mercedes and honestly Iím not impressed with the basic engineering for some components of the car. For example, the placement of an electronic automatic transmission shift module directly under a cup holder. One firm braking incident caused the module to short out (liquids/electronics donít mix well). The result was to replace the entire shifter assembly because you canít procure just the electronic module. Dumb engineeringÖ..dumb replacement parts planning. Each company has their own issues.

Stop, please! You're bringing back the painful memories of my E320! :crying2: ;) That being said...there is something enjoyable about driving down the road with the gleaming tri-star at the end of the hood...although, I bet replacing that emblem requires a new hood... ;)

bsr22
04-02-09, 07:27 AM
Darn, Too bad, maybe we could have worked something out! Was it the CLK?

Al

LOLÖno, just a C230. Definitely not high end, but MB engineering nonetheless.



there is something enjoyable about driving down the road with the gleaming tri-star at the end of the hood...although, I bet replacing that emblem requires a new hood... ;)

Agreed on all points! :thumbsup:

That said and not to bash MB; it's a nice feeling getting into the STS with the welcoming aroma of a high-end saddle shop or Wilsonís Leather.....rather than the smell of a locker room. Iíve never cared much for an MB thatís more than a year old.