: why are the northstar engines always catching on fire?



sinclairtay
07-07-04, 09:50 AM
i know of three motors in person and i was also on car-parts.com and there are plenty on there that are burnt. my motor burned on me two weeks ago. what is the problem?

Logandiagnostic
07-07-04, 10:25 AM
Maybe the recalled fuel lines? The plastic fuel lines have been recalled and will be replaced with stainless steel ones. Look around the board and you should be able to find some more info.....


Logan
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STS 310
07-07-04, 08:11 PM
Bingo!

BeelzeBob
07-08-04, 01:03 AM
uh.... Those aren't f---s .....they are thermal incidents.....

BeelzeBob
07-08-04, 01:20 AM
i know of three motors in person and i was also on car-parts.com and there are plenty on there that are burnt. my motor burned on me two weeks ago. what is the problem?


BTW.....sinclairtay's motor is a 94 if I am not mistaken (from an earlier post reference). Those had absolutely no problems with the plastic fuel rails. The 93/94 engines have the fuel rail inside the intake where it is protected from the higher underhood temps seen on the later engines at the external fuel rails. With the lower temps of the 93/94 fuel rails there is no problem with the rail leaking and the 93/94 engines are not part of the re-cal issue with the replacement stainless steel lines......

More likely something like a fue pressure regulator was ruptured and leaking internally inside the manifold causing the overpressurization of the intake in his case and the resulting thermal event.....

Was the car hard to get started when doing a hot restart...???...did it crank for a long time before starting prior to the incident..???

sinclairtay
07-08-04, 10:02 PM
my car was leaking fuel through my pipes about twice a day heavily. cadillac told me it was an injector that was bad. i replaced the injector and evey since each fuel rail that i put in the car catches on fire when i turn the key. i was told that my cadillac converter might have been closed up and the fuel is being sent back up into my intake manifold.:confused:

sinclairtay
07-08-04, 10:09 PM
my car was leaking raw fuel into my cadillac converter on a 94 cadillaceldorado touring coupe. i changed the injectors and i turned the key and my intake manifold blew off and it caught on fire. the second time i replaced the whole fuel rail and injectors and i went to turn the key and my intake blew off again and it caught on fire. a mechanic told me that my car leaked so much raw fuel for so long in my converter that it burned my hole shut on it. my converter cannot breathe so it is sending blowback up in my intake manifold. can this be the case?:confused:

94CaddyConcours
07-08-04, 11:53 PM
So i wont have any problem with my car catching on fire since u mention a 93/94 have no problem

Sean McDonald
07-09-04, 12:58 AM
It is very possible for that to be the case with your "catalytic" converter. There'd be a lot of pressure in that relatively short length of piping.

BeelzeBob
07-09-04, 01:02 AM
my car was leaking raw fuel into my cadillac converter on a 94 cadillaceldorado touring coupe. i changed the injectors and i turned the key and my intake manifold blew off and it caught on fire. the second time i replaced the whole fuel rail and injectors and i went to turn the key and my intake blew off again and it caught on fire. a mechanic told me that my car leaked so much raw fuel for so long in my converter that it burned my hole shut on it. my converter cannot breathe so it is sending blowback up in my intake manifold. can this be the case?:confused:


Possible but unlikely I would say....

Sounds like there was an excessive amount of fuel in the manifold even after the repairs causing the overpressurization of the manifold on startup...

The melted or plugged cats that I have seen have specifically just caused loss of performance. The flow at startup/cranking speeds is so low that unless the cat were completely blocked it should still flow enough to allow the engine to start.

The cat may have gotten melted due to the excessive amount of fuel going thru it...but I doubt that that is your problem causing the backfire.

BeelzeBob
07-09-04, 10:27 AM
So i wont have any problem with my car catching on fire since u mention a 93/94 have no problem
Cars can catch fire for a number of reasons. So your statement/question is incorrect.

P.S. This and the "serious question" thread have been merged.

94CaddyConcours
07-10-04, 11:19 PM
Bobby your my best consultant.
Will I have a problem with my cat, it turn really red and look like it bout to melt. And when I take one side of the fuel injector fuses out It doesn't turn red or somtime the fuse will burn out. This really piss me off.:want:

And for all of you who have a magnesium intake, whenever it catch on fire never use water always use a fire exteguisher or sometype of dry powder. I'm an Aviation Technician Major and Magnesium act violently or cause more damage when put out by water when on fire.:tisk:

OlManRivah
07-11-04, 04:38 PM
my car was leaking fuel through my pipes about twice a day heavily. cadillac told me it was an injector that was bad. i replaced the injector and evey since each fuel rail that i put in the car catches on fire when i turn the key. i was told that my cadillac converter might have been closed up and the fuel is being sent back up into my intake manifold.:confused:
I would suggest you take this vehicle to a qualified Cadillac Dealer and get it fixed with the accompanied repair warrenty.

Before you get hurt or your pasengers hurt.

BeelzeBob
07-12-04, 01:04 AM
If your cat is getting red hot then likely it has been damaged to the point where it is not cleaning up the emissions anymore and very well may be plugging due to the melting of the monolith inside.

Not sure why the fuse is blowing....sounds like that group of injectors is stuck open (or one of them is) due to a short in the wires from the injectors to the PCM. That would keep the injectors open all the time.

Magnesium fires are truely hard to put out....but a fire in the 93/94 intake manifolds is not a magnesium fire. It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to ignite the magnesium in cast form like the manifold or the cam covers. Take a torch to a piece of mag and see. It is just about impossible to "ignite" it. POWDERED magnesium, however, is very very very flammable..to the point of being explosive. Powdered metals of most any kind are flammable like that. The space shuttle solid rocket boosters utilize powdered aluminum I understand....it burns pretty good , too, but you cannot "light" cast aluminum.




Bobby your my best consultant.
Will I have a problem with my cat, it turn really red and look like it bout to melt. And when I take one side of the fuel injector fuses out It doesn't turn red or somtime the fuse will burn out. This really piss me off.:want:

And for all of you who have a magnesium intake, whenever it catch on fire never use water always use a fire exteguisher or sometype of dry powder. I'm an Aviation Technician Major and Magnesium act violently or cause more damage when put out by water when on fire.:tisk:

97Deville
07-13-04, 03:06 AM
Be Thankfull you don't own a new Honda CR-V

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5403348/


Several newer Honda CR-Vs catch fire
SUVs burst into flames shortly after their first oil changes.

Honda concluded it was a "technician's error" :hmm:

Logandiagnostic
07-13-04, 09:08 PM
The Cadillac recall will begin in August. Here is a link to related GM documents. It is a PDF file so you will need Adobe to see them.


http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/RepositoryFiles.cfm?module=RECALLS&IfsDocId=04V110



Logan Diagnostic
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dkozloski
07-31-04, 03:36 AM
Like hell you can't catch cast magnesium on fire. I watched the oil sump for an old Continental aircraft engine burn for about a half hour after I accidently ignited it while preheating it in an oven while preparing to weld up a hole in it. It burned bright like the sun once it got going. After it burned out all that was left were a few steel studs. Another time I watched magnesium aircraft and engine parts burn vigorously after a crash on the field where I worked. The local fire department ran around in circles trying to deal with it until my buddy threw a couple of shovels of dirt on it.

bbozsik
07-31-04, 03:48 AM
It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to ignite the magnesium in cast form ....

Having studied physical chemistry for 9 months... ahem*

Powdered magnesium requires a much lower Energy of Activation to ignite into an exothermic reaction than elemental (metal cast form) magnesium. Meaning, you have to add a LOT of energy in the form of heat in order to burn cast magnesium. MUCH more than powdered.

That's all Bbob was saying. Can it happen? Yes. And it will happen somewhere in the world accidentally tomorrow.

What two processes were occurring in your stories when the magnesium caught fire? Spark plugs firing?

dkozloski
07-31-04, 04:23 AM
I agree that powdered magnesium is extraordinarly dangerous. In fact when I was in the SAM missile business in the Navy 40 years ago we used to throw the magnesium flash signals overboard as soon as we got underway leaving port rather than be exposed to the fire hazard. By the same token my personal experience indicates that solid magnesium forgings and castings are not that difficult to ignite either. By the way, I had two years of college chemistry while persuing an engineering degree at OSU and UAF.