: Its been a looong day.



CTS-Voodoo
03-13-09, 12:21 AM
Yesterday the rear of the V came out and stainless steel brake lines were slapped in all around. Next I set to trying to figure out a method of routing the trailing arm with that goofy body mount in the way while still maintaining enough functionality.

I have a design that should work with anyones setup now. Despite the rear being out of the car, a stock ride height definitely will fit a 10 inch rim. WHICH MEANS MY CAR WILL HAVE A MINIMUM OF 315s out back!! I will have to look at it in the car to see if lowered setups will have this much room, but it looks like the only way you could contact these is to drag body.

So the trailing arms are a 4 piece design so far. Some specs -
nylon impregnated spherical bushings made for rock crawling/desert running (stock is rubber)
1.25 inch X 11 gauge chromoly steel (stock is 1 inch x 11 gauge mild steel)
3/16s rear bracket (stock is 11 gauge)

Unfortunately I've learned a couple things, the BMR trailing arms sell for 229 and based on this fact I can personally guarantee everyone they're not using the spherical bushings I used. Most likely they're using steel on steel ones, cause on my model the bushings alone cost more than the BMR arms!

The toe rods are finished, they're 13 gauge 1 inch tubing with urethane bushings on one side and nylon impregnated bushings on the other end for adjustability. Im looking at 55 a piece for the high end bushings, as compared to the ends on the BMR setup are about 10 bucks each. Again, the high end rock crawling bushings don't click, but they cost a friggin fortune.

The Katech shifter is in the car, its a lot shorter than I expected it to be. My miniscule shift knob I bought (solid stainless steel ball with 6 speed pattern) had to be left much higher on the threads than I expected to make it look right. Kudos on excellent directions to Katech on that one.

I should probably also say Im not getting down on BMR, hell I can definitely see why they picked the bushings they did, and why they offer replacements on the site.

shadybx7
03-13-09, 12:36 AM
:2thumbs: good work voodoo, when do you think you will have these installed so you can test them out?? Im assuming your gonna start selling these pieces aswell.. do you know how much these are going to run yet?? i would love to run +300's in the rear..





oh yea :postpics: you know when you get a chance between welds

CTS-Voodoo
03-13-09, 12:41 AM
I have been taking pics right along (if for nothing else to help me remember why prototyping sucks so much) I will post them when all is said and done and I get some time to SLEEP!

68buggy
03-13-09, 08:35 AM
You might want to check out the vendors section on www.pirate4x4.com. I'm building a jeep right now and this site has a ton of information and many supporting vendors that are usually willing help out. Most of them offer a 10% discount to forum members. They might even be able to help with some mass production.

deedubb
03-13-09, 08:38 AM
How wide are stock wheels?

atdeneve
03-13-09, 09:21 AM
8.5 inches

nmaier2201
03-13-09, 10:32 AM
this is really exciting. Thanks Voodoo for all your efforts. Get some sleep. The pics will be worth the wait.

nmaier2201
03-13-09, 10:32 AM
who else is pumped about a larger than 275 in the rear? ME I AM!

CadiBlk
03-13-09, 10:38 AM
Has anyone ever had any problems with the BMR arms breaking? I am down for beefing up the suspension while allowing for wider wheels, but at that price I might not be able to join in on the fun.

QKSLVRTA
03-13-09, 10:38 AM
LOL 315s on the V would be badass ! ! !

deedubb
03-13-09, 11:11 AM
LOL 315s on the V would be badass ! ! !

Yeah no kidding :D

Taken from the other thread:

I just got an email back from james at weldcraft. 215 a wheel to add up to 3" on the stock wheel

Plus the cost of the Monster trailing arms + the cost of new tires puts this project well over $1000! :bonkers:

CTS-Voodoo
03-13-09, 01:10 PM
Yeah no kidding :D

Taken from the other thread:


Plus the cost of the Monster trailing arms + the cost of new tires puts this project well over $1000! :bonkers:

Its for this reason I may offer the two sets of trailing arms. A "high end" setup like mine and a "low grade" with metal on metal spherical bushings or maybe the high grade hiems but spun into the same design. With the high end hiem and not the cup style I should be able to drop the price substantially, unfortunately that means the arms will only be as strong as a 3/4 inch thickness bolt. ;) I am worried about the range of movement as the hiem will already be mounting into the cup at an angle... I will see about this today.

CadiBlk
03-13-09, 02:40 PM
There has got to be a cheaper source for those nylon impregnated toe rods. Here are some control arms for $224 with the nylon joints. I know your trailing arms have more work involved and I want to you to make a profit, but maybe if you contact them they can tell you where they purchase their toe rods.

http://www.altaperformance.com/products/show/46/Control-Arms-Rear

Also you said that they will be mounting at an angle, here is a product that uses some tapered spacers to allow for movement at different angles. This idea might not help what you are talking about at all, but I had some time and looked around the webs to see what others are doing in this area.

http://www.banskimotorsports.com/trailingarms.html

All this info is just some ramblings from a guy who has never fab'd anything and only suspension work I have done was swapping out my Lincoln Mark VIII's airbags for springs after the airbags started to leak. So take it fwiw.

CTS-Voodoo
03-13-09, 10:39 PM
See those are actually hiems not a spherical bushing sitting in its own cup. Ill post pics next and show you what Im talking about. Also apparently Im using the ferrari or lambo of spherical bushings...

http://www.fkrodends.com/FKSSX-T%20%20FKSSX-TV%20%20PFKSSX-T.htm

Most of the guys using FK ends are Baja trophy trucks I found out... :thumbsup: When the guy selling me all the parts saw me for a third time he finally asked how nuts the truck I was building was... he laughed his ass off when he found out all this was for a street car.

"You know this is mass overkill for this application right? Like, these will NEVER wear out no matter how many track days you do." :thepan:

CTS-Voodoo
03-13-09, 11:18 PM
Oh boy! Pics!

KARS III template. (Rear diff bracket hadnt been finished in this shot.)
http://www.happypestcontrol.com/webextras/ctsv/ctsv-rear-build/100_0590.jpg

Rear suspension (stock) with Katech's nifty stainless steel brake lines. Thanks Jason!
http://www.happypestcontrol.com/webextras/ctsv/ctsv-rear-build/100_0594.jpg

Front to rear shot of suspension more or less bottomed out. This would be the equivelent of a 2 or 3 inch lowering job.
http://www.happypestcontrol.com/webextras/ctsv/ctsv-rear-build/100_0595.jpg

1 inch mild steel mockup parts. LOOK AT THAT CLEARANCE! :thumbsup:
http://www.happypestcontrol.com/webextras/ctsv/ctsv-rear-build/100_0597.jpg

1.25 inch DOM mockup parts. Again, lots of room there.. (I should mention, in this shot the rear is sitting flat on the ground.)
http://www.happypestcontrol.com/webextras/ctsv/ctsv-rear-build/100_0600.jpg

1.25 inch DOM toe rods with FK heims. Yes I know its overkill, I couldnt help it...
http://www.happypestcontrol.com/webextras/ctsv/ctsv-rear-build/100_0606.jpg

Finished driver and passenger side arms. See the FK heim cups?
http://www.happypestcontrol.com/webextras/ctsv/ctsv-rear-build/100_0607.jpg

Rear goes in tomorrow, when the car is sitting at ride height I will remeasure everything, but right now Im looking at a minimum of a 1.5 inch rim size increase, with a possible 2 inch step up...

Heads up ladies and gentlemen:

Tire Rack.com
315/30/18
Hankook Ventus R-S2 - $225 each
335/30/18
BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 - $316 each

1010Tires.com
Falken Azenis RT-615 - $326 each


Thats the cheapest I found in those sizes... Im thinking a 10.5 inch rim and 315/30/18 Hankooks are what the V will be sporting VERY soon....

nmaier2201
03-13-09, 11:26 PM
nice pics... that is sexy.. even some tire prices! what else could a guy ask for on a friday night!

nmaier2201
03-13-09, 11:28 PM
of course we gotta find some rims to take advantage of this now :) HEY WHEELDUDE!!!!

CTS-Voodoo
03-13-09, 11:29 PM
of course we gotta find some rims to take advantage of this now :) HEY WHEELDUDE!!!!

Heh, I plan on just widening the rear stockers. I plan to stay as stock looking as you can with 315s taking up every inch of space out back.

CadiBlk
03-14-09, 02:01 AM
Any way to minimize the welds in the bend such as;

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq35/offnpublic/cuscoblue.jpg

Those Cusco arms don't have as much of a bend as yours but they wait to weld till they get a straight. Does your bender allow some more bend before a weld is needed?

Just trying to help. I like that you are adding aftermarket options for this car.

Hate me. :thepan:

CTS-Voodoo
03-14-09, 06:43 AM
Any way to minimize the welds in the bend such as;

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq35/offnpublic/cuscoblue.jpg

Those Cusco arms don't have as much of a bend as yours but they wait to weld till they get a straight. Does your bender allow some more bend before a weld is needed?

Just trying to help. I like that you are adding aftermarket options for this car.

Hate me. :thepan:

The hand jack bender I have doesnt do well with compound bends. It has a habit of shooting the pipe out at speed when I try to do that... and... well... I like life too much. But not to worry, I may have found a fabricator...

cadillacking1
03-14-09, 02:07 PM
huh!

CTS-Voodoo
03-15-09, 10:27 PM
and even more pics of my little creations as things begin to finally go together...

http://www.happypestcontrol.com/webextras/ctsv/ctsv-rear-build/100_0611.jpg

http://www.happypestcontrol.com/webextras/ctsv/ctsv-rear-build/100_0612.jpg

LOL yes I realize those rear toe rods are mass overkill. 1.25 inch DOM 11gauge tubing with 5/8s lined rod ends. Most race cars use this setup for A arms...

nmaier2201
03-16-09, 11:33 AM
Heh, I plan on just widening the rear stockers. I plan to stay as stock looking as you can with 315s taking up every inch of space out back.

I was sitting at a light next to a 16 wheeler and saw he was running 315s in the front and though.....awwww yeah!!! Giggity :cool2:

KaMaSuTrA
03-16-09, 04:54 PM
Those tie rods look beefy!

thebigjimsho
03-16-09, 10:37 PM
I saw nylons and impregnating...

ccextra1976
03-16-09, 10:40 PM
I saw nylons and impregnating...

fetish of yours?

thebigjimsho
03-16-09, 11:12 PM
would that make me unique?

ccextra1976
03-16-09, 11:19 PM
would that make me unique?

hmm...

thebigjimsho
03-16-09, 11:35 PM
you done yet?

ccextra1976
03-16-09, 11:36 PM
you done yet?

:yup:

thebigjimsho
03-16-09, 11:41 PM
:hotdog:

CTS-Voodoo
03-17-09, 12:48 AM
I have found the next spot on the car that needs modding... I had to relocate the ebrake cable to below the rear sway bar. (cut bracket, reweld lower)

The rear sway bar only allows the stock rims to be widened 1.5 inches without spacers. I know, its disappointing, but the most we're going to be able to pull off out back without spacers is a 315/30/18 and that will be TIGHT (1/4 inch clearance tops) on the sway bar. With a 1/8th inch or 1/4 inch spacer everything would clear without any question.

The car is all back together. I have to attach 2 exhaust hangers, bleed the brakes and put the wheels on.

Then.. its shakedown time.

Stock breaking point 0.96g
245 front 275 rear on stock rim breaking point 0.93g
Front and rear strut braces, 245 /275 combo with stock rim breaking point 0.98g
Toe rod ends and trailing arms, Front and rear strut braces, 245 /275 combo with stock rim breaking point - hoping for 1.00g
Toe rod ends and trailing arms, Front and rear strut braces, widened rear rims 1.5 inches, 245 /315 combo breaking point - hoping for 1.02g

I know, I may be hoping for too much with 1.02 as a breaking g, but wouldnt it be cool if max g was 1.08 ish?? ;);)

thebigjimsho
03-17-09, 07:15 AM
If you wanna go 315, why not dump the diff and go for a steamroller?

CTS-Voodoo
03-17-09, 01:35 PM
If you wanna go 315, why not dump the diff and go for a steamroller?

Because I want the handling that comes with a IRS. Currently I believe that the car is too willing to let the ass end go in a hard turn and I think with some more rubber the car's grip will be insane. Believe me, there was a big debate over here about just removing the whole rear suspension and fabbing in a 4 link and a 12 bolt setup - but I just dig taking turns hard too much.

thebigjimsho
03-17-09, 01:50 PM
I just think you can go too much. and the rear track is not that wide to start with...

CTS-Voodoo
03-17-09, 10:24 PM
Car is finished. Needs an alignment tomorrow. The car tracks straight with a VERY slight pull to the right. Somehow the steering wheel is cocked off to 1 oclock and it was straight before. Gotta figure that one out..

THE KATECH SHIFTER IS AMAZING. I want to have sex with it. Seriously this is a must have mod, had I known this would have been installed before I bought tires or magnaflows.

There is a minimal addition of road noise on rough or uneven pavement. You really have to look for the additional noise, but again, Im anal about these things..

Now for the big question, whats the handling like?

Everything drives like stock, however the rear is locked down. I took a left hand turn in a 4 lane intersection from a stop at a light. At the apex I was probably about 3/4 throttle in 2nd gear with a tiny kick out from the rear from accelerating hard. The turn was a continuous .67 with a high of .72. Nothing special, but under constant throttle from a stop in low gear, thats not bad in my book.

Im looking forward to when I can hit a turn at some decent speed so I can start getting closer to the limit. You know, without 4 people in the car. :lildevil:

ATLDon
03-17-09, 10:28 PM
uga waga waga wider is better:mad2:

CTS-Voodoo
03-18-09, 09:34 PM
LOL nevermind, steering wheel is back to normal now. The rear of the car was um, a little pigeon toed.... Lets just say it was off by a bit - to the point where you could see it... which is terrifying because the rear tow rods were ADJUSTED TO EXACTLY THE SAME LENGTH (to the hundredth of an inch) AS STOCK.

In other words, the stock rear toe rods must be bending and flexing all over the place to have that kind of outcome with the modified ones. I highly suggest you boys look into either making a set of your own arms with a set from speedway or get a set of BMRs if you dont mind clicking...

thebigjimsho
03-18-09, 10:44 PM
hmm...