: Wheel Bearings



trukk
03-12-09, 12:14 PM
Guys,

Not really a glamorous subject, but as our cars get up in age, and/or you run them hard with sticky tires at the track, we will eventually need new wheel bearings. This thread is to discuss the options that we have out there.

I have the Helms manual for our car, and the proceedures call for removing and replacing the entire hub assembly. From this I will assume that the hubs/bearings themselves are not serviceable (i.e. can't repack, or replace just the bearing). Can somoeone confirm this? If that is not the case, can someone provide the part number for just the bearing itself (I don't think this is the case).

Next, I went over to rock auto (best part search engine EVA: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php), and looked up hub assembly options for our cars. It looks like they list 3 different manufacturers:
1) Timken (overall cost about $600)
2) BCA/National (overall cost about $800)
3) AC Delco (overall cost about $1000)

Here are the part numbers/descriptions/prices:

==================================
TIMKEN Part # HA590082
V; Rear Wheel Drive; Rear
$151.89
TIMKEN Part # HA590077
V; Rear Wheel Drive; Front
$154.99
==================================
BCA/NATIONAL Part # 513197
Front Wheel; V
$201.99
BCA/NATIONAL Part # 512249
Rear Wheel; V
$204.79
==================================
ACDELCO Part # RW2022 {#89047669}
HUB,Rear Wheel(W/Wheel Speed Sensor)
w/6-Speed MANUAL TRANSMISSION(M12) or SPECIAL Suspension(FE4)
$225.99
ACDELCO Part # FW149 {#12413103}
HUB,FRT Wheel(W/BRG) 4 DOORS
$226.79
==================================

Obviously the AC Delco's are the OEM repalcements, but are $400 total more. Does anyone have any experience with either of the other 2 brands? I have no problem paying for mods, but look to save where I can. Any feedback on this?

Finally, are there any other options out there? Are there any cermic bearing we could use, which be more pricey, but last a lot longer?

Thanks,

Chris

bandit6678
03-12-09, 12:19 PM
Are you having problems with your now, or just being proactive? how many miles do you have racked up?? wish i could be of more help on the subject but i dont know much bout it being new to this car

CTSV_Rob
03-12-09, 12:20 PM
Just bought a ECM for the wife's car at Rock Auto.

The bearings in ours cars are most likely made by Timken. They have been making bearings for many years and if you buy the bearings from AC Delco it will probably just be a set of Timken's repackaged. I don't know this for sure so it would be worth checking into but if you ever have the hubs off look at the bearing races. The bearing manufacturer almost always etches or stamps there name onto the race.

I have been thinking about this so I will be watching this thread to see what you come up with.

trukk
03-12-09, 12:51 PM
Are you having problems with your now, or just being proactive? how many miles do you have racked up?? wish i could be of more help on the subject but i dont know much bout it being new to this car


I've got 86k miles on mine, and about a dozen track weekends. The last 2 on slicks. They are OK for now, but aren't gonna last that much longer.

-Chris

lollygagger8
03-12-09, 01:04 PM
Timken is tha bomb. I've bought many of their Jeep bearings, and if they can hold 44" tires on straight axles digging thru rocks and mud, I wouldn't have any quams about putting them in my V.

If the bearings themselves really aren't servicable and they make us change the whole hub.......:gun2: GM Engineers!!!

NormV
03-12-09, 01:13 PM
I've got a complete set with 33K miles if your looking for insurance but on of each.

814V
03-12-09, 01:20 PM
how long do you think the average life span will be for a set? on average use.. DD and a few track days?

lollygagger8
03-12-09, 01:52 PM
how long do you think the average life span will be for a set? on average use.. DD and a few track days?

AT LEAST 100k

unless they make noise/grind/or bind up, I wouldn't worry about em too much

deedubb
03-12-09, 02:14 PM
Are the bearings and Hub's the same unit? I mean, if you had bearings out, would you buy the new hub which would include new bearings for replacement?

814V
03-12-09, 02:24 PM
Are the bearings and Hub's the same unit? I mean, if you had bearings out, would you buy the new hub which would include new bearings for replacement?

i think it was stated above that the hub is not a servicable part..

trukk
03-12-09, 02:24 PM
Are the bearings and Hub's the same unit? I mean, if you had bearings out, would you buy the new hub which would include new bearings for replacement?

That is my understanding, but I was looking for a validation of that. Hopefully Bill from Lindsay will chime in.

I'd also like someone to take a look at the bearing races for the manufacturer name. If we could get our bearings done for $600 vice $1000, I'd definately be for it.

-Chris

Albertan
03-12-09, 02:41 PM
I had the right rear wheel bearing replaced on my CTS under warranty because it was noisy. I'll look at the receipt to see what they did. I can't imagine having to replace hubs etc. If that was the case, probably would need a bearing press so not a job for your home garage.

thebigjimsho
03-12-09, 04:37 PM
I talked with trukk about this last month. I'm in the market for bearings right now to install while I'm replacing my shocks. I have almost 60k miles right now and a bunch of track days and auto-X, most on R-compounds. When teching for V-day II, my shop mentioned I was starting to get some play in the fronts but that they'd be fine for the near future and would be OK to track on.

If we can find them cheap enough(I think Luke has them fairly cheap), I would recommend doing them if you plan on tracking your V at all and if you're nearing 100k miles. Less if you have some track time on your V already...

NormV
03-12-09, 06:16 PM
Take one from a base 09 and do a 5 lug conversion. The car weighs more than the V1.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-CADILLAC-CTS-REAR-HUB-WHEEL-BEARING-16-MILES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a10 Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQ hashZitem260376476227QQitemZ260376476227QQptZMotor sQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Norm

AAIIIC
03-12-09, 08:00 PM
Obviously the AC Delco's are the OEM repalcements, but are $400 total more. Does anyone have any experience with either of the other 2 brands? I have no problem paying for mods, but look to save where I can. Any feedback on this?

The bearings in ours cars are most likely made by Timken. They have been making bearings for many years and if you buy the bearings from AC Delco it will probably just be a set of Timken's repackaged. I don't know this for sure so it would be worth checking into but if you ever have the hubs off look at the bearing races. The bearing manufacturer almost always etches or stamps there name onto the race.
As Rob said, the OEM ones are pretty much guaranteed to be repackaged bearings from someone else. Having been through this with other my other cars, there are really only a couple/few companies out there that make the bearing assemblies, and then they get repackaged. In searching for higher rated bearings for my track/auto-x Subaru, I found that wheel bearings packaged in SKF, NAPA, and Federal Mogul packaging were all either NTN (which is the Subaru OEM bearing) or NSK bearings. Again, as Rob said, the actual manufacturer name and part number was etched on the side of the bearing race.

In light of the fact that the CTS-V uses a complete hub/wheel bearing assembly, I think it's even more likely that one manufacturer is making them and others are repackaging.


Finally, are there any other options out there? Are there any cermic bearing we could use, which be more pricey, but last a lot longer?
Can't say I've ever seen a ceramic bearing in a wheel bearing application. Has anyone else?

NormV
03-12-09, 09:10 PM
I just checked the OEM bearing, front and rear, and there is no etching about who made them. :-(

Norm


Just bought a ECM for the wife's car at Rock Auto.

The bearings in ours cars are most likely made by Timken. They have been making bearings for many years and if you buy the bearings from AC Delco it will probably just be a set of Timken's repackaged. I don't know this for sure so it would be worth checking into but if you ever have the hubs off look at the bearing races. The bearing manufacturer almost always etches or stamps there name onto the race.

I have been thinking about this so I will be watching this thread to see what you come up with.

JMBCTSV
03-13-09, 08:52 AM
Production bearings are SKF. They are absolutely indestructible. We had 2 years (about 1500-2000 track miles with 275mm A compound Hoosier tires, bumping curbs, excessive brake heat, car to car contact) and never replaced one of these.

SKF bearings, nearly identical to ours are production on the ZR1 Corvette, (base and Z06 are stuck with Delphi).

nmaier2201
03-13-09, 10:43 AM
Take one from a base 09 and do a 5 lug conversion. The car weighs more than the V1.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-CADILLAC-CTS-REAR-HUB-WHEEL-BEARING-16-MILES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a10 Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQ hashZitem260376476227QQitemZ260376476227QQptZMotor sQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Norm

Now that is interesting.... do we know that they be a direct replacement? If so I'll buy a set of 4 and run v2 wheels with voodoo trailing arms... that would be hawt!:cloud9:

Bueller
03-13-09, 11:03 AM
I may be doing this in the near future, as well as doing longer lug studs, so I'm watching this thread.

It looks like the rear hub attaches by that large axle/spindle nut. Is that the only thing that holds the rear on the spindle? I haven't looked at it in detail yet, just going by memory last time I had the wheels off.

Also does anyone with a service manual have the torque settings for these bolts and the hub carriers front and rear?

trukk
03-13-09, 12:22 PM
Can't say I've ever seen a ceramic bearing in a wheel bearing application. Has anyone else?

I read about it here:

http://www.gtrcenter.net/?p=11

-Chris

trukk
03-13-09, 12:23 PM
Production bearings are SKF. They are absolutely indestructible. We had 2 years (about 1500-2000 track miles with 275mm A compound Hoosier tires, bumping curbs, excessive brake heat, car to car contact) and never replaced one of these.

SKF bearings, nearly identical to ours are production on the ZR1 Corvette, (base and Z06 are stuck with Delphi).


John,

Waht do you think about those Timken ones then? Any idea what bearings they use?

I'll get the delphi ones if it's a smart move, however if the Tinkens are the same, I'll gladly pocket the $400.

-Chris

CTSV_Rob
03-13-09, 01:22 PM
Found Timkin for $180 an axle.

http://www.clearlyauto.com/catalog/2007/Cadillac/CTS/V8-364-6.0L/Brakes-Wheel-Bearings/Wheel-Bearings-Seals-Hub-Bearings-Axle-Repair-Assemblies

That seems cheap for an entire assembly.

lollygagger8
03-13-09, 01:55 PM
I may be doing this in the near future, as well as doing longer lug studs, so I'm watching this thread.

It looks like the rear hub attaches by that large axle/spindle nut. Is that the only thing that holds the rear on the spindle? I haven't looked at it in detail yet, just going by memory last time I had the wheels off.

Also does anyone with a service manual have the torque settings for these bolts and the hub carriers front and rear?

Why you want longer studs? Wheel spacer or something?

Ya the spindle nut is only thing that holds hub to axle (besides the need to take the caliper/caliper bolts out)

trukk
03-13-09, 02:09 PM
I may be doing this in the near future, as well as doing longer lug studs, so I'm watching this thread.

It looks like the rear hub attaches by that large axle/spindle nut. Is that the only thing that holds the rear on the spindle? I haven't looked at it in detail yet, just going by memory last time I had the wheels off.

Also does anyone with a service manual have the torque settings for these bolts and the hub carriers front and rear?


Ya I've got the helms manual. I'll try to remember to take a look and post the trq specs. Must use loctite!

-Chris

Bueller
03-13-09, 02:24 PM
yeah I have .25" spacers and I might get stsv wheels. I don't mind the exposed studs on the stockers.

lollygagger8
03-13-09, 02:44 PM
yeah I have .25" spacers and I might get stsv wheels. I don't mind the exposed studs on the stockers.

If you do that, I want to see pics man!

thebigjimsho
03-13-09, 03:15 PM
Sorry guys, if I had more than 30 seconds yesterday to post, I could've checked the PM Luke sent me last month. He quoted me $245 per corner, same price front to back...

lollygagger8
03-13-09, 03:21 PM
$245 EACH? Dayum!

CTSV_Rob
03-13-09, 04:09 PM
Now that's a good deal.

AAIIIC
08-10-10, 10:50 AM
Production bearings are SKF. They are absolutely indestructible. We had 2 years (about 1500-2000 track miles with 275mm A compound Hoosier tires, bumping curbs, excessive brake heat, car to car contact) and never replaced one of these.
Bumping this one back up. Had the car at Lindsay a couple weeks ago and they said they couldn't fix my alignment because both front hubs had some play in them. I haven't jacked up the passenger side to check it yet, but jacked up the driver side and there's definitely a little bit of play. I'm at 56k miles or so, with I think 9 days on track (only 3 of those on R compounds). I'm think I'm going to go with the Timken assemblies from rockauto.com - prices are about the same as what was posted over a year ago.

kevm14
08-10-10, 11:33 AM
Even if AC Delcos are made by Timken (they're not, apparently), couldn't they be made to a different tolerance, or rather the extra tight spec parts be marked for AC Delco and the looser-but-still-in-spec ones be sold under the Timken (or whomever) name for a cheaper price? I wouldn't always assume that $400 gets you an AC Delco box and nothing more.

repenttokyo
08-10-10, 03:21 PM
Even if AC Delcos are made by Timken (they're not, apparently), couldn't they be made to a different tolerance, or rather the extra tight spec parts be marked for AC Delco and the looser-but-still-in-spec ones be sold under the Timken (or whomever) name for a cheaper price? I wouldn't always assume that $400 gets you an AC Delco box and nothing more.

that's kind of paranoid.

kevm14
08-10-10, 07:07 PM
No, I'm not suggesting it as a conspiracy theory but rather that perhaps AC Delco has an agreement with that manufacturer. I don't think that's far fetched at all. And the better yield parts would be worth paying more for. It may not be the case but it is far from impossible.

ctsv154
08-10-10, 07:33 PM
Its happens a lot more often than you would think^^^^

odla
09-13-13, 02:24 PM
Bumping this one back up. Had the car at Lindsay a couple weeks ago and they said they couldn't fix my alignment because both front hubs had some play in them. I haven't jacked up the passenger side to check it yet, but jacked up the driver side and there's definitely a little bit of play. I'm at 56k miles or so, with I think 9 days on track (only 3 of those on R compounds). I'm think I'm going to go with the Timken assemblies from rockauto.com - prices are about the same as what was posted over a year ago.


Did you used the Timken on the rear? If so how are they doing? If not What do you have on the rear?

Thanks

AAIIIC
09-13-13, 04:47 PM
I've never had to replace either of the rears.

odla
09-13-13, 09:22 PM
Ok thanks