Given Lincoln's descent into quasi-luxury car status .... the new Mercury! And Chrysler's total abondonment of even the quasi-luxury market. We Americans are left with only one even remotely viable entry in the automobile luxury market.

As this was really Cadillac's only justification for being in GM's product line can the continuation of the Cadillac division be justified without a considerable upgrading of the line's content and design?

I think it would be sad to lose Cadillac. I'm a long time Japanese car buyer and Cadillac is the first American car company to grab my attention in a long time. I think they have made huge progress in the design of the exterior and interior. Their performance has really improved and I think the CTS and STS are really nice cars.

At this point I think that Cadillac needs to move out of it's "quasi" luxury car status and step up and compete in the luxury segment. Let Buick be their quasi-luxury brand for the masses.

They have a lot of a negative stereotypes to overcome and I think the only way to do this is to make a superior quality product with superior reliability. Don't know if this will ever happen but we can hope.

I worry that Cadillac will become a foreign brand. With most cars and trucks I tend to not care whether its American, Japanese, or German, but Cadillac was always and still is VERY distinctly American from its looks, engines, transmissions, and interiors. It would never be the same under foreign ownership unless they were careful stewards like Ford was with Jaguar.

I worry that Cadillac will become a foreign brand. With most cars and trucks I tend to not care whether its American, Japanese, or German, but Cadillac was always and still is VERY distinctly American from its looks, engines, transmissions, and interiors. It would never be the same under foreign ownership unless they were careful stewards like Ford was with Jaguar.

I've never been a fan of Chrysler but when you look at their success post-minivan craze and compare that company then to what it is now (post-Daimler) with Cerberus. I would certainly hate to see that happen to Cadillac.

On the flip side I wonder if an independent Cadillac that is less dependent on GM technology and one that did less rebranding of technology would fair better in the long run? I don't know how GM does it now but if you use the Toyota/Lexus model of production - they are basically separate assembly lines with separate workers and very different standards. Lexus does a good job of making an ES 350 feel like it's not just a fancied up Camry even though it has the same engine and transmission. Cadillac I think needs to continue to really separate itself from the rest of GM so people don't think they're getting a fancied up Saturn Vue when they buy an SRX.

Like I've said before Cadillac has something going for it the rest of GM doesn't and I'd hate to see it homogenized into GM's portfolio anymore that it is.....I wonder if different ownership would be a horrible thing?

I think the remaining cars in GM's product line would suffer without the Cadillac division to try new and more highly engineered improvements. Until recently Oldsmobile was the guinea pig division with most innovations tried there before going to the senior divisions of Cadillac and Buick. But I think Cadillac can only serve a valid prestige role for GM if the models once again reflect the standards that made Cadillac a true "Standard of the World."

There is no truth that to the premise that GM cannot produce a true luxury car to compete with the best from arround the world. As I keep reminding those who seem to forget, Mercedes-Benz are made by one of the world's foremost truck and taxi manufacturers. Toyota's bread and butter also is generated by vehicles primarily found with fare meters attached to their dashboards. Ferraris and Maseratis are made by FIAT also a major truck producer.

I quess my point is, I am not sure GM can survive without Cadillac ....... Chevys are fine but today to sell in the world or even the US market buyers need to know that their Chevs have evolved from a superior product. I think GM management forgot this market truth a long time ago; if the company is to survive and prosper I believe it must go back to the basics and engineer a superior automotive product that will shed its' glow on lesser cost cars in its' product range.

With the new economic times, maybe being a quasi-luxury brand isn't such a bad thing. It's now hip to be thrifty for a lot of folks - even if they don't need to be. Positioning Cadillac a bit above Buick, but not exclusive, may be a good thing. (This seems to be what Lincoln is doing.) It reminds me of the old advice given to sales reps. They were advised to buy domestic, near-luxury, 4-door sedans from Buick, Olds, Mercury, and Chrysler. These brands conveyed success. Cadillac, Lincoln, and Mercedes gave the impression that you were making big bucks in commissions from your customers.

With the new economic times, maybe being a quasi-luxury brand isn't such a bad thing. It's now hip to be thrifty for a lot of folks - even if they don't need to be. Positioning Cadillac a bit above Buick, but not exclusive, may be a good thing. (This seems to be what Lincoln is doing.) It reminds me of the old advice given to sales reps. They were advised to buy domestic, near-luxury, 4-door sedans from Buick, Olds, Mercury, and Chrysler. These brands conveyed success. Cadillac, Lincoln, and Mercedes gave the impression that you were making big bucks in commissions from your customers.

I guess you could make a case for Cadillac being "quasi-luxury" a good thing, especially in light of the economy. I think they just need to make up their minds and have a focused goal of where they want to fit in the automotive world. It's my impression based on price they are trying to compete in the luxury market. Their current lineup has cars ranging from 40K-85K.

Honestly I think they either need to separate themselves more from the rest of the GM lineup or just sell cars under the Buick name and price them accordingly. A Buick Lucerne goes for 40K and a DTS for 47K. To me that DTS is a Buick with some more bells and whistles - I don't want to pay a premium price for a rebadged Buick and it's hard to believe this is Cadillacs "Flag ship". Rebadging comes off as lazy and to be honest I don't want my 65K car to be based on a 40K car. If you look at Lexus/Infinity they do share a lot of technology between brands but it doesn't mean you'll find a Camry/Maxima with more bells and whistles with the Lexus/infinity logo slapped on it. Even if cars are based on the same platform they make very different cars out of that platform and that way people see the value in paying the premium price difference.

I think Cadillac is doing better with this although the SRX is pretty close to being a gussied-up Saturn Vue. Take the same crossover equivalent from Lexus/Infinity and you'd be hard pressed to find a Toyota/Nissan that resembled an RX or FX even if they share platforms between the regular/luxury brands.

Please..... the day Infiniti dropped the 1996 Q45 was the day that Infiniti dropped out of the luxury car catagory! The Infiniti "M" is a 90% identical car to a Nissan Maxima, but with every Maxima option, made standard. The Infiniti "G" is the Nissan Altima, top model, and again with the addition of every Altima option...made standard. They are grossly overpriced! You can run a "M" well up over $65,000 with all the goodies on it.

Regarding Cadillac.....Cadillac turned its back on the 46 year olds and up, which would include 50s, 60s & 70's owner's. While sad that it chose to go that route, it was in Cadillac's best interest. They saw that there was alot of folks in their 30s, & 40s making mega bucks, and they did not want Fleetwoods, Sixty Specials, Sevilles or deVilles. So..to that end, they somewhat redesigned them, and reposistioned them in the media, illustrating much younger people in the TV & print advertisments...and, they respostioned them. Lookl at all the young(er) folks driving CTS(s) !
The older buyers have migrated over to Lincoln, with the Town Car. I am not sure that they will embrace the MKS as much. But, they are buying the MKZ.
Alot of older people are going foreign, too. Not just with the "Top 3" ~
(M-B; BMW & Lexus) but with Volvo and Jaguars.
Chrysler dropped out of the top Luxury class after 1978, with the last "real" Imperial. $$$$$ was the evil bandit that stole the Luxury division away. They have done exceptionally well with their "300" - But, it's tiny when compared to Town Car & DTS.
All in all, Caddy made the right move - for the times. But, again the times are changing and they need to get a car that can deliver "Cadillac Performance" AND 30 MPG around town !

The Volvo S80 Premier Elite *IS* THE most impressive luxury car out there, today, it out does all the others in every respect. But, at $60,511.00 MSRLP I cannot afford it as I am paying off college loans up the do do.
Chevy & Caddy are G.M.s mainstaples, they will be fine.

The Infiniti "M" is a 90% identical car to a Nissan Maxima, but with every Maxima option, made standard. The Infiniti "G" is the Nissan Altima, top model, and again with the addition of every Altima option...made standard.

But you have to admit they do a fairly good job of making those appear to be two distinct cars. The Infinity M is not a Maxima with a different grill, wood trim and heated seats. The Buick Lucerne is the same car as the DTS with fewer options.

My only point is the luxury brand for GM should have their own distinct, technology leading cars, that although based on a similar platform as other GM cars, can not be exactly the same as the other GM cars plus some options. I think that's what makes the CTS special - it shares a lot of technology with other GM cars but that car is very unique to Cadillac. If they just want to rebrand exact replicas of Buicks then I think they will never separate themselves out as GMs luxury brand.

BTW the 2010 Lacrosse looks like it has potential.

The Altima and Maxima are FWD cars. The G and M are based on the 350Z's FM platform and have VQ V6 and VK V8 (M) engines. Totally different ball of wax, Sandy.

Yes, too many Nissans and Infinitis look alike and dilute the exclusivity of Infiniti, but mechanically they are very different. Their basic architectures aren't even the same.

The big question isn't whether GM should keep Cadillac as a division rather, can Cadillac survive as an independent manufacturer after GM folds? :duck:

Re: Infiniti and Nissan....

Yes, I was speaking of appearance, both exterior & Interior.
There is a reason that you will never see a Nissan/Infiniti dealer with both cars sharing the same floor.

I read that the Lucerne will be phased out. Shame. Nice car.

The big question isn't whether GM should keep Cadillac as a division rather, can Cadillac survive as an independent manufacturer after GM folds? :duck:

GM won't fold. The only way that would happen is if they file under Chapter 7, which is unlikely. Even then each division would have to be sold, and couldn't operate independently anyways.

If GM declares bankruptcy, it will most likely be Chapter 11, which will be good for them.

Well, they are definitely a bargain then at $1.45/share (http://www.marketwatch.com/quotes/gm) (and dropping) as of end of business day Friday.....
Would you care to invest your college fund in GM to help out?

Re: Infiniti and Nissan....

Yes, I was speaking of appearance, both exterior & Interior.
There is a reason that you will never see a Nissan/Infiniti dealer with both cars sharing the same floor.

I read that the Lucerne will be phased out. Shame. Nice car.

I used to take my Q45 to Wendle Infiniti/Nissan. The same showroom displayed a Q45 (which was probably sitting there unsold for two years), a Sentra, and a G35. Outside was a beautiful M45.

I had ordered a loaded Q45 2006. I never got it. 366 (remember that number) 366 were sent to America. Mine was not in there. My closest dealer got 2 units. The next closest dealer got only 1. The 2006 was identical to 2005, but
had 4-wheel steering, and a couple of new paint colors, new style larger (20" I THINK) wheels. I actually miss it, still. It was the only Japanese car I ever liked. Infiniti did that car right!

I had ordered a loaded Q45 2006. I never got it. 366 (remember that number) 366 were sent to America. Mine was not in there. My closest dealer got 2 units. The next closest dealer got only 1. The 2006 was identical to 2005, but
had 4-wheel steering, and a couple of new paint colors, new style larger (20" I THINK) wheels. I actually miss it, still. It was the only Japanese car I ever liked. Infiniti did that car right!

It suffered from expensive electrical and mechanical problems. You dodged a bullet.

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/406287-death-of-an-f50

Nissan's VK45 V8 is pathetic.