: Is your rearend shot?



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wildwhl
07-05-04, 01:15 PM
Thought we might want to centralize the discussion on rearend issues here. It seems there are three issues:

1) Differential whine/failure (seems to be getting more common)
2) Leaking axle shaft seal (left side normally?)
3) Though rare, I think I recall hearing of broken axle shafts, possibly a drag racing issue though.

Anyway, I thought it might be helpful to post some general information here, including preventitive maintenance, fluids and change procedures:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16009

Pictures of leaking axle shafts and the results at the dealer:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16204


And finally our experience(s) with noise from the rearend and the resulting fix that the dealer performs, along with final satisfaction. I will do my best to summarize my experiences here. Should you have any questions, please feel free to PM me.

For my V, the sound of the whine began to show up early on - at about 200 miles, long before I ever started getting on the gas and pushing the car. I followed a pretty strict break-in for about 550 miles before gradually opening up the envelope. I did check the fluid level to be certain it wasn't low, and it wasn't.

I informed my dealer at about 300 miles of the noise, along with some of the other issues I was having (oil temp) and they suggested that I wait until the first service interval i.e. oil change for them to look at it. I change my own engine oil in all of my vehicles, and did so at about 600 miles and again at 2650 miles. The rear end whine seemed to get louder as the car warmed up - and in fact the sound was generally not there when the vehicle was cold.

Finally, at about 4200 miles, some other nagging issues (loose window trim falling off the car on the freeway) forced me to take the car to the dealer. They initially dismissed the rearend whine as a "pitch point" or "tire" noise. I did have to force the issue somewhat and finally managed to get the service manager to ride with me so I could point it out. He heard it right away. The sound started at about 27 mph and continued to about 46 mph - being the easiest to hear/loudest at about 44 mph. It was produced in any gear but most audible in 4th gear, under light acceleration/cruising.

The dealer decided that possibly swapping out the rearend fluid would cure the noise. When they drained it they found metal - a lot of metal - and tried to order new parts. They did not receive the parts they ordered (have not as of yet) but instead were informed by GM that an upgraded differential assembly was available and would be shipping from Lansing, Michigan. This should arrive this week, and I'll post how well the car runs, results of my (dis)satisfaction with the dealer, etc. once I receive the car back.

It has been in the shop for a week at this point, so I recommend to any of you that has any concern whatsoever about noise (howl/whine/chatter) coming from the rear of your car to get the dealer involved NOW, and have them order parts BEFORE tearing your car down. There seems to be plenty of evidence of the rearends failing in both the SRX and CTS line via this forum, a quick search will show you quite a few posts of similar/same experience as mine.

It is quite possible that the rearend might be OK in most vehicles, possibly only requiring a fluid change early on instead of the 25K interval suggested elsewhere. I am no expert on this subject, but I have rebuilt a few solid rearends during my hotrod days, mostly GM 10/12 bolts and a couple 9" Fords, and have NEVER seen the amount of metal in the diff fluid as came out with the fluid on my V. Well, I can't say never - I have seen some spun diffs that look pretty nasty - but you know that before draining the fluid :)

Fortunately for us, it sounds as if GM is already on task and by supplying an upgraded differential part number I hope it means that the piece is an improvement over the original one. (Miscreant, do you know?)

Sorry for the longish post, Cal, feel free to edit down if you like.

Cal
07-05-04, 01:45 PM
We'll leave it until I get veto'ed by some other mods. :cool:

Very informative and necessary post! At least one member has dropped a diff on the freeway and had to be towed, so it's obviously a safety issue as well as a repair concern.

b4z
07-05-04, 01:45 PM
'04 SRX V6.
Rearend whines between 29-70 mph.
it is loudest between 30-35 mph.
Told dealer I would wait for an official
fix from Cadillac rather than to have the
gearset replaced which may whine also.

benjet
07-05-04, 02:23 PM
Here's a consolidated list of *MOST* of the threads on this board on this topic, in case some of you want to do more reading (CTS and CTS-V threads listed - no SRX posts in this list, also exludes the threads posted above) -

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15933

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15301

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16037

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12327

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14291

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3185

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13648

Feel free to add any I have missed.
-Ben

benjet
07-05-04, 03:27 PM
Here's one from the SRX - I'm sure there are more. This thread also talks about engine oil (whoo hoo!) ;)

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14891

Devil_concours
07-05-04, 04:35 PM
mine started below 500mi and complained about it and brought it in not too long after and ever since then it's been getting worse. My father says that my bearing is probably bad and my gears are chewed up

CTSV OWNER
07-07-04, 04:27 PM
Yep, Howls from 44 mph to 48 mph the loudest

baf_ctsv
07-07-04, 05:06 PM
I have no howl, but you can add me to the list of leaking diffs at 1200 miles. Very small drip on cardboard under the car comig off of left side housing. I cleaned it off with a rag and will be monitoring it.







Yep, Howls from 44 mph to 48 mph the loudest

drdsgolf
07-07-04, 06:35 PM
You know, I am so unobservant at times, I almost missed this whining. The car runs fine, but in the middle gears, 3, 4, and 5 especially, as I just give it a little gas, I get an annoying medium pitched whining in the rear. If I put the clutch in, it goes away, or if I give it a lot of gas it goes away also. It doesn't feel like it makes my V unroadworthy, but...

ds

GTS21
07-07-04, 06:44 PM
You know, I am so unobservant at times, I almost missed this whining. The car runs fine, but in the middle gears, 3, 4, and 5 especially, as I just give it a little gas, I get an annoying medium pitched whining in the rear. If I put the clutch in, it goes away, or if I give it a lot of gas it goes away also. It doesn't feel like it makes my V unroadworthy, but...

ds
Mine does the EXACT same thing. :banghead:

benjet
07-07-04, 06:49 PM
ds
(AHEM)

drdsgolf - I have been trying to reach you system does NOT allow me to PM you, please contact me when you can, thanks.

-Ben

And now back to your regularly scheduled discussions, sorry to bother everyone else.

drdsgolf
07-09-04, 11:35 AM
Hi Benjet. I haven't figured out how to get this forum to work for me. I use a public email address of: drdsgolf@garlic.com. Feel free to email me your thoughts. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am in the Bay Area.

ds

Devil_concours
07-09-04, 11:50 AM
since my dealership hasn't called me back yet so i guess i should let one of the local guys ride with me at the meet tomorrow.

wildwhl
07-13-04, 01:36 PM
Well, I got my car back.

Things seem OK, except:

1) Ding/chip in one of the wheels they removed. This is the one I had previously curbed so I'm not going to make a big deal out of it.

2) Scuff in the paint at rear, lower edge of driver's rear whell opening. Clearly from replacing the tire/wheel. I intend to point this one out...it should buff out and they should be the ones with the buffing compound on their hands.

3) One of the trim pieces (A pillar on driver's side) that they replaced is JUST AS BAD as the one on originally! So...do it thrice to make it ri(ce)ght?

They did not refill the rearend with and additive, only used 89021677 lubricant (correct, updated number from 12378261). The entire carrier was replaced, part number 10361308, along with a few other incidentals.

No apologies, no complimentaries, just here's your car now get the hell out of here.

I have only driven her the 3 miles to work in city traffic since, so I cannot verify if there are any new noises (or even old ones?) or not...but will post here if I find anything. Guess I'll be taking an easy on her for another few hundred (500?) miles to break in the differential. Any suggestions?

Sure glad to have the V back, though. Had an Infiniti G35 for a rental this last weekend, and it is a tight, fun little car. But no V. Still, beats the Taurus I would have had if I hadn't asked about the G35 (no upcharge)!

V-Love
07-14-04, 12:05 AM
Dealers are great untill you sign the papers. Good Luck and check your mileage. They wrecked my brothers Viper "road testing" it. My local dealer was educated about the V by me(he never heard of it) so I purchased out of state. Now, I cringe when I think of getting it serviced. Do we have any other options...like doing it ourselves and getting G.M. to supply parts?

sensorium
07-14-04, 10:37 PM
Talked to my rep. at Cadillac Corporate today about this very issue. He told me it is totally untrue that cadillac has a new rear end to fix this problem. He said he dug pretty deep, and if it were true he would know. :helpless: Please let me know where you got this info so that I may direct this gentleman in the right direction before they put another bogus rear-end on my CTS(not V).

Devil_concours
07-15-04, 12:39 AM
Talked to my rep. at Cadillac Corporate today about this very issue. He told me it is totally untrue that cadillac has a new rear end to fix this problem. He said he dug pretty deep, and if it were true he would know. :helpless: Please let me know where you got this info so that I may direct this gentleman in the right direction before they put another bogus rear-end on my CTS(not V).
i got it from the dealer service manager at lindsay. Supposedly he ordered brand new rear diff for me 2~3 weeks ago and i missed my appt when the rear diff suppose to have came in. So when i got there 2 or 3 days later, he tells me that cadillac made a design change and he's going to have to order a new unit. Well it's been like 2weeks or so and i still don't have a new rear diff. I've verified with him few times to make sure that this isn't the same unit as before and he confirmed every time i asked him.

sensorium
07-15-04, 10:27 AM
I'd call cadillac national service at 866-932-4368. They could just be telling you what you want to hear. :hmm:

Devil_concours
07-19-04, 11:20 AM
I'd call cadillac national service at 866-932-4368. They could just be telling you what you want to hear. :hmm:
you may be right but i talk to my service manager and he says that the new rear diff is here and i all need to do is drop it off.

wildwhl
07-19-04, 12:05 PM
Though I have no part numbers or evidence to support the statement that the rearend is a "new part", I was told the same thing. My dealer said that when they tried to order the parts they were advised of a new part number and an enitre differential, housing and all, was shipped in place of what they wanted (the diff only I suppose). Miscreant confirmed above that this is how the diffs are shipped - complete - housing and all - in any case. Is it different from the original part? No way for me to tell. It doesn't whine (yet) but I'm probably not driving as hard as I was due to fear of failure.

sensorium
07-19-04, 03:55 PM
Which dealership/location was it, if you don't mind me asking. Cadillac HQ AND my local delearship are totally denying any new part reguarding the rear differential. The service manager even went as far to say that Corporate said they would have never made a new rear diff. as MY car is the only CTS they've had with rear differential problems. :rant2:

When I told him I've been discussing this SAME problems with other members of an internet forum, he said the internet is full of misinformation, and that people can type whatever they want.

Why would Cadillac HQ still be denying that this problem exists to it's service managers??? Anyone having this problem please post the mane and location of the dealer you are working on it with, so that I can give my delearship a list of legitimate complaints which he can verify with other service managers.

Devil_concours
07-19-04, 06:49 PM
Which dealership/location was it, if you don't mind me asking. Cadillac HQ AND my local delearship are totally denying any new part reguarding the rear differential. The service manager even went as far to say that Corporate said they would have never made a new rear diff. as MY car is the only CTS they've had with rear differential problems. :rant2:

When I told him I've been discussing this SAME problems with other members of an internet forum, he said the internet is full of misinformation, and that people can type whatever they want.

Why would Cadillac HQ still be denying that this problem exists to it's service managers??? Anyone having this problem please post the mane and location of the dealer you are working on it with, so that I can give my delearship a list of legitimate complaints which he can verify with other service managers.
I called the number you posted and the lady didn't have a clue as to what i'm talking about. One of the mechanic said that that is a possibility but he can't find any info about it. However my service manager has confirmed multiple times that the unit they installed today is indeed a brand new updated unit.

Lindsay Cadillac
Alexandria, VA
1-866-932-4368
ask for matthew and mention min.

I dropped off my car today around 12 and i got a call around 4:30 saying the car is ready for pickup(i thought rear diff longer than that to repair)

It says on my invoice "REPLACED REAR END EXCESSIVE (NOISY, WORN)"
As for the fp-number, 25766298 and it says carrier under description.

StealthV
07-19-04, 07:43 PM
Hmm, I would have thought they would have just replaced the whole pumpkin. From the part number, it appears they replaced the diff carrier. Any other parts listed on the paperwork?

GM PART # 25766298
GM LIST: $821.43
OUR PRICE: $575.00
DESCRIPTION: CARRIER

benjet
07-19-04, 07:52 PM
Just as an FYI there is a newer thread in the reg CTS forums about this topic - http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17335

Hope this helps.
-Ben

wildwhl
07-24-04, 12:13 PM
The new rearend is now broke in and I haven't really abused it in any way (didn't feel I had abused the original either).

I have one observation. Wheel hop seems to be lessened. I haven't done any clutch sidestepping (and trust me, that V that pulled up next to me at the light a couple of days ago, identical to mine, really wanted me to! SHE did and SHE wheel hopped immensely, I believe to her dismay as I pulled gently away!) or hard launches as that's not my normal driving style. However, yesterday morning (early a.m., only 70 degrees out) while driving through one of my favorite routes where I would almost always experience wheel hop in two 2nd gear tight turns, I didn't experience it once. I went through it again in the afternoon and tried even harder - just some spinning and sliding but no wheel hop.

I'm wondering if the fact that the differential had been wearing for quite some time could have increased the wheel hop (i.e. reduced "posi" effect)? The wheel hop did seem to get worse as time went on, and it for certain isn't magically gone now...but my arse tells me it is lessened...curious.

wildwhl
07-24-04, 12:30 PM
Bummer, just read the other thread. The more expensive part is NOT what was installed by my dealer. I assume that I must have received the old part despite the dealer's stories :(

Devil_concours
07-24-04, 02:37 PM
25766298?
I guess v and the cts shares same rear differential unit.
I replied to your post in the other thread but it seems like newer unit is cheaper.

darrelld
07-30-04, 01:25 AM
Dealer just ordered my new diff today and Here are the part#s from the order;
89059049 DIFFERENT 5.510
25730853 VENT 5.387

Parts are on special order

Devil_concours
07-30-04, 07:11 AM
Dealer just ordered my new diff today and Here are the part#s from the order;
89059049 DIFFERENT 5.510
25730853 VENT 5.387

Parts are on special order
like i said on the other thread. Why is there another part # for the rear diff? and why do i have the same rear diff as the wildwhl?

wildwhl
07-30-04, 01:29 PM
like i said on the other thread. Why is there another part # for the rear diff? and why do i have the same rear diff as the wildwhl?


DC -

Those are the same questions I have and that lurking concern in the back of my mind is starting to detract from not only the ownership, but the driving experience as well...

I expect the housings are the same regardless of which CTS you have, but the internals are obviously different based on gear ratio. The question I have (Miscreant can you help?) is how that is determined when the dealer orders the replacement part? It is my understanding that the assembly comes complete and ready to install...so I would think there should be several different part numbers. This most recent number does not show up on the GMPartsDirect.com website which is interesting to say the least

darrelld
07-30-04, 03:21 PM
DC -

Those are the same questions I have and that lurking concern in the back of my mind is starting to detract from not only the ownership, but the driving experience as well...

I expect the housings are the same regardless of which CTS you have, but the internals are obviously different based on gear ratio. The question I have (Miscreant can you help?) is how that is determined when the dealer orders the replacement part? It is my understanding that the assembly comes complete and ready to install...so I would think there should be several different part numbers. This most recent number does not show up on the GMPartsDirect.com website which is interesting to say the least

The latest part number is on GMPD;
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?addtocart=1&addpartnumber=89059049&singlepart=1&partnumber=89059049

riverrat
08-01-04, 12:46 PM
Just checked my invoice (6/25/04) for repair of blown rear and it's a different # for the carrier than I've seen posted. FP 10361308

GM Parts Direct List $1821.73 / Their Price $1275.00 This must be a complete rear carrier assembly but is this the "new" one everybodys looking for ? :confused:

Temper V
08-04-04, 12:01 AM
I wanted to add my experience with my '04 V. at about mile 600 I began to notice the whining noise at around 45 mph AND the more subtle, low frequency, high rotational speed, noise/vibration at 75 mph and up. The former condition was primarily in 4th-6th gear. The latter condition was independent of gear selection and could be heard in neutral. Both conditions were more pronounced when the car was hot, but still audible when cold. The dealer had it for a while and after consulting with Cadillac, has been given authorization to install a new rear-end at a yet to be determined time (maybe months).

I have drive 2.5 ton army trucks (ye old deuce and a half) that had smoother and quieter drivetrains. I hope the new rear-end is a revised version and fixes the noises. Otherwise the car has been flawless.

vfour
08-04-04, 01:30 PM
My SRX had constant gear whine from 60 MPH on up. It took a lot of effort, time, and returns to the dealer, but the center section was finally replaced last week. No more whine.

benjet
08-05-04, 03:17 AM
I've now sampled my Diff lube and here is the report (from this thread - http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=138420):

Rear Differenential (fluid UN-changed) -

high in COPPER @ 225 PPM
high in IRON @ 762 PPM

"ANALYSIS INDICATES CONDITIONS REQUIRING CLOSE MONITORING. POSSIBLE SOURCES include: Gear or bearing wear. PERFORM the appropriate diagnostic tests. RESAMPLE at the next scheduled interval."

I'm not sure what to make of this but I'm open to hearing others thoughts.

-Ben

wildwhl
08-09-04, 06:56 PM
Bummer, just read the other thread. The more expensive part is NOT what was installed by my dealer. I assume that I must have received the old part despite the dealer's stories :(


Just a follow up. I was going through paperwork today and noticed that the original part the dealer ordered was 25766298 ($831.70/$582.19 GMPD) but the differential that was installed was 10361308 ($1821.43/$1,275.00 GMPD).

So, I think this is a complete list of rear diff/carrier part numbers to date:

Wildwhl - 10361308 @ $1,275 from GMPD
Darrelld - 89059049 @ 582.19 GMPD
sensorium - 25766288 @ $882.88 GMPD
unknown - 25766298 @ $582.19 GMPD

Four part numbers that I'm aware of, and no more information to go on at this time. If I find out any more details I'll post here. No significant whine from mine since replacement (1300+ miles now)...and no other noise...so, I'm hoping all is well.

On the last part number, 25766298, I could swear I had paperwork indicating that this is what was installed, but looking today (while trying to convince the dealership service guy that there was in fact a software flash for the oil temp gauge on my car - for 45 minutes!) I realized this other number of 10361308. Since this is the most expensive part at GMPD, we can assume it is the best, right? :rolleyes:

StealthV
08-09-04, 07:24 PM
Part of the confusion on the part numbers I think is due to the fact that some of the failed units are from the base V6 model CTS's which have different gear ratios and most likely other different internals compared to the V.

If my memory is correct, the V6 models have two different ratios available and the V with a 3.73:1 is unique as well which would give three part numbers.

wildwhl
08-09-04, 10:13 PM
Part of the confusion on the part numbers I think is due to the fact that some of the failed units are from the base V6 model CTS's which have different gear ratios and most likely other different internals compared to the V.

If my memory is correct, the V6 models have two different ratios available and the V with a 3.73:1 is unique as well which would give three part numbers.

Agreed, and understood. I'm trying to figure out which part # corresponds with which differential (i.e. 3.6L and 3.XX ratio, etc.)?

benjet
08-11-04, 08:09 PM
I've now sampled my Diff lube and here is the report (from this thread - http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=138420):

Rear Differenential (fluid UN-changed) -

high in COPPER @ 225 PPM
high in IRON @ 762 PPM

"ANALYSIS INDICATES CONDITIONS REQUIRING CLOSE MONITORING. POSSIBLE SOURCES include: Gear or bearing wear. PERFORM the appropriate diagnostic tests. RESAMPLE at the next scheduled interval."

I'm not sure what to make of this but I'm open to hearing others thoughts.

-Ben

Update -

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=142004&postcount=5

wildwhl
08-11-04, 09:49 PM
I have an analysis sampling kit sitting on my desk. There's 1400 miles on the new diff now. I think I'll swap the fluid and send it in for sampling...

benjet
08-11-04, 09:55 PM
I have an analysis sampling kit sitting on my desk. There's 1400 miles on the new diff now. I think I'll swap the fluid and send it in for sampling...

If you did that (in the not too distant future) we'd have a reading closer to a "baseline" (I'm TOTALLY unsure if those values are considered high for this component and/or age/mileage, but if I'd have to venture a guess - NOT). Maybe we should encourage others to do the same (RD/OA).....hmmm...

-Ben

P.S. TOL (thinking out loud here) - if there is contamination in the RD/OA you may NOT want to change the fluid out as that will mask a growing problem (change it only when GM says it's required - follow THEIR guidelines) and then if the RD/OA shows a negative trend growing over time (on the same fluid) they will be forced to replace your rear (again). Does that make sense? This is the reason I didn't want to change my RD fluid. While I do wish to extend the life of all components of my V (and many other things as well), I'm concerned about masking the potential of a growing problem (which is what I was just trying to explain). Sorry it's late, hope that made sense.

Temper V
08-12-04, 10:11 PM
Anyone know who manufactures the rear end for Cadillac?

StealthV
08-12-04, 10:15 PM
Anyone know who manufactures the rear end for Cadillac?

It's a Getrag unit. I wonder if Vette gears will fit?

Temper V
08-12-04, 10:22 PM
Might. I want to contact them direct to see why it'll take three to six months to get a replacement for mine...

WhiteLightning
08-15-04, 11:18 PM
Has anyone succeeded in figuring out the diff part numbers?

I'm going to go raise some hell at my dealer to see if I can get the damn thing replaced. Its weeping again (first weep they replaced the axle seal).

WL

Temper V
08-17-04, 07:41 PM
Well, the new rear end is in. Dropped the car off tonight and should get it back in a day or two. Fingers are crossed...and GPS tracking is on...

I'll post results and part numbers when I get it back.

WhiteLightning
08-21-04, 08:54 PM
To weigh in...

One leaky seal, replaced. Was dry. Then leaked again, they replaced the diff.

Here is what I have on the invoice:
1 25730853 VENT
1 10368780 F-CARRIER
FC: 2K
PARK #: 10361308
COUNT: 2

benjet
08-26-04, 02:20 AM
My whine had now been verified by dealer tech (whoo hoo!), who said he'll have to find out what GM wants to do about it.

-Ben

UPDATE - Dealer called, ordered me a new rear, will report back once installed meanwhile I get to drive the car while I wait for parts (again).

wildwhl
09-11-04, 12:18 PM
OK, I have not changed the fluid in the new rear differential because, quite frankly, it is really beginning to howl again. Keep in mind that this is only about 2000 miles since replacement - and I have not had the time to "play very hard" with the V during that time. I'm going to take it to the dealer early next week and have them check the fluid/plug for their opinion. It seems to be even louder than the rear that was replaced - could by the BMR parts - but since I'm starting to be able to hear it over the B&B...it must be getting pretty bad :(

CadiJeff
09-11-04, 01:08 PM
my "rear end" is just fine, though i am only 24 :D

Temper V
09-11-04, 07:19 PM
Wildwhl, that completely sucks and is unacceptable. When you get it replaced (again), can you compare p/n's?

As previously mentioned, mine was replaced, but I've only put 500 miles on it. It is quieter and smoother at this point.

Getrag sucks.

BowenCT
09-13-04, 09:33 PM
For those V owners who have experienced the dreaded rear-end whine at 43-47mph notice that the whine has a tendency to become louder after the car has been driven a while..........like 20+ minutes???

The reason I ask..........my '04 now has about 450miles, I started to notice the whine ever-so-slightly at about 125 miles. I have noticed more recently, that I can't hear it at all when I first start driving, but after about 20 mins. or so I can really start to notice it.

I have checked both the garage floor and rear-end and do not notice any leaks. Is it ok to drive until I have a chance to get it repaired?

I regret if I am :deadhorse , but has anyone confirmed for sure what is causing this, and what is different with the replacement rear-ends that the dealers are installing?

And, is there anyone out there who has the whine, that has just ignored it and put substantial miles (say 2000+) on their car regardless?

Basically what I am trying to determine is if this rear-end whine is just a proverbial "nature of the beast" and something that can be ignored?

I apologize for the rather elementary advice I am seeking, but any insight would be much appreciated.

StealthV
09-13-04, 09:59 PM
Mine started to whine much like yours at the same miles and speeds. Shortly thereafter I changed the fluid in the rear differential and today with 4700 miles on it, the rear is whisper quiet.

BowenCT
09-13-04, 10:06 PM
Wow, that is good news!

Could you fill me in on what fluids you used? Did you have the "metal shavings" that so many other owners described?

StealthV
09-13-04, 10:17 PM
The answer to all your questions and more...where? On Reed's awesome CadillacFAQ.com (http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/rmaint.html) of course! :cheers:

urbanski
09-14-04, 05:44 AM
The answer to all your questions and more...where? On Reed's awesome CadillacFAQ.com (http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/rmaint.html) of course! :cheers:
where did you get that "suction gun"? thx

StealthV
09-14-04, 07:37 AM
Any autoparts store should have a suction gun. Had mine for 15 years or so, I would guess they cost around $10. Example #1 (http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3939) Example #2 (http://www.autobarn.net/te30-118.html)

6104696
09-14-04, 09:07 AM
BowenCT,

Just for curiousity, are you sure that what you are hearing is a rearend whine and not tire noise? The reason that I ask is that after 20 mins or so the tires have heated up and the pressure is increased by 10-20%, which makes the tires transmit more road noise.

I have no rearend noise in my V (at least I think not), but I caught a rear diff leak early (at 500 miles), and when the dealer changed out the seal I am assuming (gulp) that they changed the fluid. Maybe that is one reason that I am spared (currently at about 2800 miles, still quiet).

I had a rearend whine (or maybe it was a growl) in my old Grand Cherokee, but it made the noise constantly, independent of temperature (though turning up the volume on the soundsystem seemed to reduce the noise :coolgleam

I do seem to have that bizarre "oooh" sound coming from the dash, which seems to correlate to the coolant harmonic issue discussed on the FAQ. I find that one to be just plain wierd; both the noise and the cause. Fortunately, the soundsystem cures that one, without masking a potential driveline failure.

Good luck with it, and thank <your favorite supreme being> for inventing warranties.

Doug

Temper V
09-14-04, 08:44 PM
FYI part numbers:

I just received my paperwork for the rear end replacement.

25730853 Vent 5.387
10368780 Carrier 5.505
10257766 Nut-fwd/s 6.056
12378261 Gear oil 8.800
+ 4 wheel alignment

Only 500 easy miles since repair...only a very slight whine, and no high-speed, low frequency vib as before.

benjet
09-14-04, 08:59 PM
And, is there anyone out there who has the whine, that has just ignored it and put substantial miles (say 2000+) on their car regardless?


Yes the whine gets louder the hotter it gets/more you drive in a single session (going >100 miles in one shot helps aggravate the noise greatly). I have over 5k on mine with whine. It can get loud enough that it interferes with normal conversation if you are in the speed range 45-63 ish.

-Ben

P.S. My new rear has been at the dealer for about 2weeks, I haven't had a chance to get in there and get it replaced.

JEM
09-16-04, 02:56 AM
Yes the whine gets louder the hotter it gets/more you drive in a single session (going >100 miles in one shot helps aggravate the noise greatly). I have over 5k on mine with whine. It can get loud enough that it interferes with normal conversation if you are in the speed range 45-63 ish

For what it's worth, and I'm not saying it's applicable to the CTS-V specifically, but BMW in Europe (but not BMWNA in the US, interestingly) specced a diff oil change on the E39 M5 at the same time as the initial oil service (2000km or 1200mi.) Most of the BMW break-in restrictions are for transmission and rearend break-in, not engine.

BowenCT
09-18-04, 12:22 PM
I just wanted to give a follow up to my original post a few threads back.

I stopped by my dealer and explained to a service advisor that I was having a whine or high-pitched hum coming from my rear-end between the speeds of 43-46 under light acceleration. I then asked if they had ever heard/seen this from any of their CTS, CTS-Vs or SRXs. Obviously, and I was not shocked, he claimed that he had never heard of this. (Mind you, I had called them the day prior and spoke with a different advisor who said he checked with all the service advisor and techs, and that none of them had ever heard of such issue.) I asked him if he could please call Cadillac while I was there, to see if they were aware of the problem. (Because of this site I obviously knew that they did.) He called and sure enough, to his surprise, they knew exactly what he was talking about. Apparently Cadillac has a list of diagnoses for service techs to help determine the problem. From what he told me, and I say this because I have noticed that many of you have had different solutions/fixes to cure the problem, he said that Cadillac will only REPLACE the rear-end as an entire unit. They DO NOT try to "fix" them by replacing various parts, gears, etc. I found this interesting.

So the long of the short of it is, I have an appointment on Tuesday to let the hear the noise and to tell me what they plan to do to fix it. I will let everyone know how I make out.

JEM
09-19-04, 11:06 AM
he said that Cadillac will only REPLACE the rear-end as an entire unit. They DO NOT try to "fix" them by replacing various parts, gears, etc. I found this interesting.

GM buys the final-drive assembly as a unit. Failures within the warranty period due to design or material problems are going to come out of the supplier's pocket. GM will keep a few for teardown to be sure they can point the finger at the supplier, ship the remainder back to the supplier for rebuild, and charge back their costs of doing the replacements to the supplier.

Neither GM nor the supplier wants dealership mechanics of unknown skill under conditions they can't control trying to repair the things, and neither GM nor the dealership wants the mechanics tied up spending unpredictable amounts of time on diagnosis and benchwork.

benjet
09-20-04, 12:39 AM
Got mine replaced 10368780 and lube (x3) 89021677, no whine after a single 100 mile run.
-Ben

jspridge
09-23-04, 01:07 PM
My brother works at a dealer where one of these replacements has been done. He just told me that the new part failed on a car that had the replacement, and that the owner wrecked the car when the rear wheels locked up.

BowenCT
09-23-04, 07:33 PM
Got my car back today, they changed the rear end fluid and additive.......quiet as a church mouse. We'll see how long it lasts.............


Funny thing, the CTS they gave me as a loaner whined like a sonofabitch!!!!!!!!! We're talking 3x as loud as my V did, and at a much broader speed range......like 35-60.

StealthV
09-23-04, 07:48 PM
Now that we have two of us that have changed fluid and the noise went away makes one wonder if the factory has something goofed up with the fluid type, amount or additive.

My V will flip 5,000 miles tomorrow - the rear is still silent. All I hear is the lovely sound of the B&B exhaust. :)

GNSCOTT
09-27-04, 10:43 AM
Add me to the list. My rear let go yesterday.

wildwhl
09-27-04, 09:26 PM
Now that we have two of us that have changed fluid and the noise went away makes one wonder if the factory has something goofed up with the fluid type, amount or additive.

My V will flip 5,000 miles tomorrow - the rear is still silent. All I hear is the lovely sound of the B&B exhaust. :)

Stealth -

Sorry if you've posted this elsewhere - but what fluid/additive are you using?

Wildwhl

StealthV
09-27-04, 09:56 PM
Scroll up to post #55. :cheers:

wildwhl
09-27-04, 09:59 PM
Duh...my bad :)

ctsvett
09-28-04, 12:17 PM
Full change procedure is here:

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/difflube/index.html

Courtesy of stealthV....

Reed
http://www.cadillacfaq.com

JEM
09-28-04, 05:07 PM
Full change procedure is here:

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/difflube/index.html


Please click on Reed's link, look at the pic of the drain plug and the results of gear wear-in, and tell me that changing the diff lube within the first 3K miles isn't a good idea...

StealthV
09-28-04, 05:51 PM
Agree 100%. Changing fluids in the engine, trans and diff is the best $100 you can spend in the first few miles. It ensures you get all the left over bits from the manufacturing process and initial break-in out of the system. Clean parts are happy parts. :)

BowenCT
09-28-04, 06:18 PM
Add me to the list. My rear let go yesterday.

Details?

GNSCOTT
09-28-04, 09:16 PM
After its fixed :D

I must say Caddy is handeling my broken rear with real class. They towed it as far as they could toward my house (like 50 miles), the delaership whom I have never seen in my life called me the next day to ask me my address to send a rental, called to tell me they performed all recalls ( washer on a -arm and fuel feed) , told me they had the part overnited from Lansing Mich. (they just got the car Monday), and told me if they get the part early enough they will have it ready for tomorrow.

BowenCT
09-28-04, 09:31 PM
After its fixed :D



I'm interested in what/how it happened......warning signs....................etc....... :thumbsup:

Thanks.

GNSCOTT
09-29-04, 06:51 PM
OK , car is back.They said the axle broke and a chunk of the axle destroyed the rear. Here are the part #'s on my invoice:
vent: 25730853
carrier 10368780
shaft kit 89047648
lube 89021677

They also told me the latest recall on something that has to do with the fuel, that the parts are not yet available.

Ok, first let me say I went to the track this weekend and got one run in. This was my first run ever with a stick shift and I ran a 13.67 @104.23. I also know I made many EASILY corrected mistakes. First I feathered the clutch way to long and only had a 2.2 60ft, and I ran the car up close to 6500 rpm's every shift, hoping to no avail to avoid having to shift into 5th gear. With shorter shifts and a harder launch a 13.3 on my second run was easily attainable even at a track close to 2000ft in elevation, but since GM monitors these boards lets say I deceided not to run it a second time. 20lbs in the tires worked great and the air bags I had in the springs at 25#'s each also helped.

NOW, all I can say that is if you figure a way to make the car hook (like I explained above) do not dump the clutch even at 2500rpm's. I would even go as far to reccomend hardened axles. I think i'm going to skip any mods on this car because the rear just cannot handle the torque to weight ratio, and it should be able to. I think we are going to see more rears go when people start trying slicks.

StealthV
09-29-04, 07:29 PM
Glad they got you fixed up.

Anyone know the torque rating of the V's Getrag differential? The V6 powered CTS's Getrag is rated for 420 Nm (309.8 ft-lb). The C5 Corvette's Getrag is rated for 550 Nm (405.7 ft-lb).
http://www.getrag.com/j/597
With better halfshafts, the next weakest link would be the diff as you discovered, followed by the prop shaft and the T-56 input shaft. It'll be interesting to see how Magnacharger handles their warranty policy or a Mallet V for that matter.

You were shifting into 5th gear in the 1/4 mile? Did you mean you were hoping to avoid going into 4th gear? :hmm: The V will do ~94 MPH in 3rd and 134 MPH in 4th.

Getrag's corporate slogan "We Do It Better."

GNSCOTT
09-29-04, 08:50 PM
Now i'm not sure. i thought I was shifting into 5th at the end but maybe it was 4th. I know I shifted just before the line, or maybe I ran the 1/2 mile that 1st pass. :hmm:

I know the 13.1 is attainable. That was my 1st pass ever with a stick and I know i did those things wrong. Also the track was a higher elevation, it was about 80 degrees at track level (72 degrees out and sunny), there was a 10-15 mph head wind, and my coolant temps were at 190 (car was hot). I'm sure GM teseted at sea level on a cool day, with a cool car. I think all manufacturers do it under optimal conditions and a professional driver.

Dreamin
09-29-04, 09:55 PM
Strange... lots of people going to the drags and this is the first half-shaft that's let go :hmm: Think you had a defective part? vs. a design problem with the half-shaft...

And Magnacharger does not warrenty the rear end (not on the vette either)... only motor and tranny.

GNSCOTT
09-30-04, 02:36 PM
The dealer said the half shaft broke and went inot the rear, but who's to say the rear didn't break the half shaft? Also, someone on this board broke a half shaft. i remember him saying that he bought hardened ones and had them installed. How many guys got their cars to hook at a track and dumped the clutch at 2500rpms's? If more guys put slicks on and tried it, I'm sure you would see alot of breakage.

BEMRETR
10-11-04, 01:36 PM
Well, add me to the list of rear end carnage, Blew apart the rear diff and twisted the driveshaft pretty good. The diff locked up on a 1-2 shift, hopped a few times big boom and then alot of lube all over the road. The diff had been getting a louder and louder whine over the last few weeks but I never would of expected this. :banghead:

urbanski
10-11-04, 02:13 PM
Well, add me to the list of rear end carnage, Blew apart the rear diff and twisted the driveshaft pretty good. The diff locked up on a 1-2 shift, hopped a few times big boom and then alot of lube all over the road. The diff had been getting a louder and louder whine over the last few weeks but I never would of expected this. :banghead:
how many miles?

BEMRETR
10-11-04, 03:11 PM
how many miles?
Just shy of 10K

jdodman
11-01-04, 03:20 PM
Rear end was whining. Had the dealer change the diff fluid. They claimed there was a lot of metal in there. When I got the car back, rear started grinding, especially when rolling in reverse at a slow speed. Turns out they forget the little bottle of limited slip differential fluid. I discovered this after 400 miles. This appears to have finished off my rear. A new one is on order. I am waiting for it to arrive. For now I am hoping the rear I have in there will hold up. It gets a little louder each day.

Lesson learned - Don't forget the limited slip fluid when changing out your rear end oil...It does make a difference.

Samboosa
11-02-04, 07:37 AM
I own an SRX.
Rearend whine started at around 2000 miles at speeds of ~27-30mph and 45-55mph.
Dealer says they replaced the differential with a new modified one directly from the assembly line in Lansing (I live in the middle east!!).

Now I have around 4900 miles on the car and I have just discovered a whine coming from the rearend again (not quite sure if it was there before, either I wasn't paying attention or it just got louder).

Not as clear as the previous one but it starts at around 50mph and continues to go till around 60mph where it fades (in all the other sounds from wind, speed, etc).

It is not tire-related noise. As, same as the common rearend whine, it only comes when I am pressing on the gas a bit. Goes away when I take my foot off.

wildwhl
11-03-04, 11:47 PM
Make it two rearends for me. Dealer is giving me some grief...but I've pointed out the lack of anti-slip added when the "new" diff was installed and explained that is likely why it chatters when turning now. The whine, of course, has something to do with all the metal that will likely come out when they "...let's change the fluid early next week and see what it looks like, see if the noise and chatter goes away...".

Yeah, right :banghead:

My dealer's service department is clueless. Think I'll take the day off next week and walk them through the entire scenario. Might have to pull some references from this sight along the way.

Trust me, I've been far easier on this differential (supposedly an upgraded unit over the original) than I was on the original diff - and I wasn't hard on that! Hell, I'm much harder on the little 10 bolt in the '66 ChevyII....much....much....much harder :burn: Even the old Jetta was abused far more and the EDL never gave out in that...nor in the Maxima...of the RX8 that was sidestep clutch dropped multiple times at 8K Rpms prior to the buy back :lildevil:

ctsvett
11-04-04, 01:36 AM
Can someone clarify for the FAQ:

What is the "new" differential part numbers (vent, carrier, diff, etc) and what are the labor codes. Seems that everyone is having problems with the rear and I just want to put hte CORRECT info in the right place.

Thanks,

Reed
http://www.cadillacfaq.com

mister period
11-04-04, 09:26 AM
Well put me down for two as well. My 04s quiet rear started making a oil spot on the garage floor last week so I took it right in. 4353 miles on the clock. Dealer confirmed the leak and replaced the differential (PN 10368780), although it took nearly a week to get the part.

Picked up the car and made it 15 miles before I had to park the car with fluid burning on the exhaust from the diff and the rear end grinding. As I was pulling off the freeway I had a guy yell to me that my car was on fire. Whether he actually saw flames or just made an assumption based on the quantity of smoke Im not sure. Hell of an image for Cadillac their bad boy performace car broke down and smoking on the side of the road.

Just spoke with the dealer and the rear diff is currently on national backorder. Read into that what you will.

jdodman
11-04-04, 06:53 PM
Mine goes in Monday. If all goes well I will post the part numbers.

jdodman
11-09-04, 06:02 PM
Good News !!

Got my car back tonight, and between a new rear and a bushing replacement, my car runs like it was brand new. Not even the 'parade clunk' was evident. Evidentually, my rear was shot as well as a key bushing. Also the mechanic said he went over the whole rear and found several other 'loose' items.

Was also advised that Getrag is now stating publically (for BMW as well) that the first 500-1000 miles, the V must not see WOT, or the pinion gears will not seat properly - which will in turn, drastically reduce the life of the rear !!

Evidentually I suffered from 'Premature Elaboration' because I hit WOT at least one or two times before 500 miles ... Oh well.

Samboosa
11-10-04, 08:53 AM
Good News !!

Got my car back tonight, and between a new rear and a bushing replacement, my car runs like it was brand new. Not even the 'parade clunk' was evident. Evidentually, my rear was shot as well as a key bushing. Also the mechanic said he went over the whole rear and found several other 'loose' items.

Was also advised that Getrag is now stating publically (for BMW as well) that the first 500-1000 miles, the V must not see WOT, or the pinion gears will not seat properly - which will in turn, drastically reduce the life of the rear !!

Evidentually I suffered from 'Premature Elaboration' because I hit WOT at least one or two times before 500 miles ... Oh well.

You got any part numbers? And is this your first differential to whine? Mine is one with no part numbers and it whines again :rolleyes:

For my first differential I am sure I have followed the break-in steps right. Besides I hardly do any WOT on my SRX. I don't drive a V you know.

Playdrv4me
11-28-04, 03:42 PM
Just spoke with the dealer and the rear diff is currently on national backorder. Read into that what you will.

Wow... that IS bad.

If it makes any difference, all my RWD cars have had diff whine at some point and time, Especially my 97 and 99 Grand Cherokees (POS Dana44AL). But I had a diff replaced in my 01 330i for this (under warranty), and my 00 740iL has a slight diff whine too. This seems to be a considerable downside to RWD vehicles, as I havent had a single one with a perfect diff yet. Of consequence, my 86 K5 has no whine at all, but then it has one of the best rear ends around.

jdodman
11-28-04, 07:03 PM
Makes you wonder....
I have a 1987 Buick Grand National that has only one original drive train part left, due to .......... drag racing. You guessed it !! The rear !
I do 1.60 - 60 foot launch's and run 4.5 second zero to 60. I have a line lock and smoke the slicks for 10 seconds before I line up at the tree.

I keep waiting for the posi rear to go on this car and it just won't.

So it makes me wonder.... How come a 17 year old posi rear can take the punishement and a brand new 2004 posi cannot !!

I guess it is the same reason I have no wheel hop on the 11.9 second 17 year old car (with 17 year old suspension). Silly me !!

Dreamin
11-28-04, 07:26 PM
So it makes me wonder.... How come a 17 year old posi rear can take the punishement and a brand new 2004 posi cannot !!
That's a good question... :(


I guess it is the same reason I have no wheel hop on the 11.9 second 17 year old car (with 17 year old suspension). Silly me !!
This one I can answer... which car will get around Laguna Seca faster? Stock CTS-V or your 11 second GNX? ;)

mastertech
11-28-04, 07:54 PM
You're talking about apples and oranges.... solid rear axle vs. independent suspension, GM axle vs. Getrag, etc. CTS-V is not exactly a drag racing car..

jdodman
11-29-04, 07:18 AM
My point was not so much to compare the drag racing abilities of these cars, (or lack there of), as to the 'Overall Engineering' within the rears. Granted these are different rears in different cars.

The fact that 17 year old technology can take better/more punishement than brand new, solid axle or not, is what I find interesting.

The second point I will agree with. The GN is a great car - as long as you do not have to stop or turn at high speeds...

trekster
12-07-04, 11:17 PM
I've had the whine for over a thousand miles now....and hasn't blown on me yet.
General Motors needs to get their $hit together and start fixing the problem.
:helpless:

ahahnu
12-15-04, 11:02 PM
What does wot mean? I just got a 05 and am a little worried after hearing all this. 1200 strong and nuthing yet knock on wood.

StealthV
12-15-04, 11:18 PM
WOT = Wide Open Throttle

68CoupeDeVille
12-20-04, 06:14 PM
Is there any trend within production date of the affected vehicles? 2004 only? Early 2004 only? Late 2004 only? Has anyone had troubles with a 2005 yet?

Wouldn't surprise me if a fix was quietly implemented at the factory and everything kept under the rug to keep bad PR to a minimum. Assuming they've bothered with a fix.

BeagleBrains
12-20-04, 09:00 PM
Wow... that IS bad.

If it makes any difference, all my RWD cars have had diff whine at some point and time, Especially my 97 and 99 Grand Cherokees (POS Dana44AL). But I had a diff replaced in my 01 330i for this (under warranty), and my 00 740iL has a slight diff whine too. This seems to be a considerable downside to RWD vehicles, as I havent had a single one with a perfect diff yet. Of consequence, my 86 K5 has no whine at all, but then it has one of the best rear ends around.
1966 Mustang; 1970 Mustang; 1964 Grand Prix; 1972 Jeep CJ; 1975 Buick Skyhawk; 1976 Cadillac Seville (Automatic); 1980 and 1983 Firebird Trans Am; 1980 Jeep Scrambler; 1987 Jeep Wrangler; 1985 Trans Am; 1989 Trans Am; 1991 Jeep Wrangler Renegade; 1991 Firebird Trans Am; 1995, then 1998 Trans Am; 1999 Corvette Coupe; 2002 Corvette Coupe; 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon; 2004 Cadillac CTS V. Most were manual shift; all rear wheel drive, driven hard and fast. :D Never has any rear end failed.

caddywhizkid
12-21-04, 07:01 PM
Hello CTS-V owners. I can tell you this about all your rear-end problems, Gm as of now says only to flush fluid for whine noises, but they are working on a solution. Try this call your dealers, ask them to check PI's dated dec 7 2004. See what they tell you.

danbuc
12-28-04, 03:50 AM
My '66 Mustang has some pretty loud diff whine, and I drive it like I stole it. Its still the original rear end, that came with the 2bbl 289. It only produced 200hp. It produces alot more than that now and the diff still works perfectly. No grinding or anything. Ford always did make a good rear end though. You have to remember, it's the first year of production for the CTS-V. There are bound to be some problems. I thought they were shipping out a replacement diff that fixed the problem the CTS-V's had. No cars are ever perfect the first year they come out. There's always a few problems here and there. Thats just the way it goes with new car technology.

NC STS-V
01-05-05, 11:15 PM
Add me to the list of V's needing a new rearend:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28438

'04 with only 6900 miles :crying2:

NC STS-V
01-11-05, 08:20 PM
So, I think this is a complete list of rear diff/carrier part numbers to date:

Wildwhl - 10361308 @ $1,275 from GMPD
Darrelld - 89059049 @ 582.19 GMPD
sensorium - 25766288 @ $882.88 GMPD
unknown - 25766298 @ $582.19 GMPD

Got my V back today. Just to add to the part number confusion here is what they replaced my Rear Diff with:

GM PART # 10368780
CATEGORY: Differential Carrier
GM LIST: $1,863.32
OUR PRICE: $1,304.33
DESCRIPTION: CARRIER

c5racr1
01-18-05, 07:17 PM
put me down Mine started to wine after a 100 mile road trip, called my dealership, and they are replacing. 04 2000 miles

wildwhl
02-09-05, 10:41 PM
Diff #3 to be ordered, or diff #2 rebuilt pending the outcome with Regional Rep in the next week or so. The limited slip in diff#2 has become a sort of Getrag Mini-Spool and siezed up. :( :( :(

donley
02-18-05, 10:19 PM
A whine 44 to 48 is not bearing it is gear spacing ring gear to pinion it is called backlash it is adjustable but not recomended on a new car. whine is on lite throttle. good luck with new rear end.Donley

lasstss
02-18-05, 11:29 PM
Question to those that have detonated the diff. How 'loud' was the whine? I have had a slight whine for a while now, amplified by the pinion support. It is quite feint but audible. Are we talking howling here? or the same light noise??

wildwhl
02-18-05, 11:48 PM
lasstss -

Interesting note here. My first diff was before the BMR PS. Now, with my current diff which I believe to be failing, I have removed (yesterday) the BMR PS and guess what? The whine, though still there, simply isn't that bad. The chatter is still there (another issue altogether possibly) but the whine is much reduced.

May I suggest this?

Remove the PS and see what you think. I remember when I installed it thinking it added "some" noise, but until I removed it I really didn't realize how much :(

In fact, I'm beginning to doubt whether the whine in my differential will justify replacement (thought he minispool nature of the l.s. clutch packs most certainly will) :hmm:

lawfive
02-19-05, 12:15 AM
Naif Newbie Question: anybody know what the torque rating on our diff is?

wildwhl
02-19-05, 12:16 AM
310 ft. lbs.

lawfive
02-19-05, 12:32 AM
That explains a lot.

lasstss
02-19-05, 02:57 PM
Naif Newbie Question: anybody know what the torque rating on our diff is?

Lowest of the bunch

http://www.en.getrag.de/181

benjet
02-20-05, 10:57 PM
Question to those that have detonated the diff. How 'loud' was the whine? I have had a slight whine for a while now, amplified by the pinion support. It is quite feint but audible. Are we talking howling here? or the same light noise??

Mine could EASILY be heard over normal conversation (with or without the stereo on), if I would forget to warn new passengers about it, they would be immediately asking about it when it began.

lasstss
02-20-05, 11:22 PM
OK, thanks. That gives me an idea. I can only hear mine with the radio off and listening for it. Its a touch louder now with the BMR pinion support.

wildwhl
02-20-05, 11:57 PM
lasstss -

If with the pinion support it isn't crazy loud, then I wouldn't worry about it. Basically, with the pinion support in my car, the diff is as loud as normal conversation at 50 mph cruise :(

lasstss
02-21-05, 08:45 AM
Well that isnt good... With mine, if I knew how to set the lash on this kind of rear Im sure I could tweek it out. At least now I know what to listen for.

wildwhl
02-21-05, 07:03 PM
Anybody know if the rear differential(s) are still on backorder?

Dealer just took mine apart, called me and said they wanted to order parts to "rebuild" it :cookoo:

I informed him that I understood the unit was only sold complete (as they well should know since we went through all of this only 7 months ago)...
:crying:

lasstss
02-21-05, 08:46 PM
New units are $1460.. I was told that they can be bought outright.:eek:

wildwhl
02-22-05, 03:48 PM
OK, so the dealer is ordering (trying to today) a new rear differential assembly. In an effort to help out I contacted Vince Muniga who referred me to Rob Kotarak (V-series Performance Manager, or something like that) to find out the correct diff part number. Vince suggested that there was in fact a new, beefier differential unit available and that if anyone knew the part number or how to find out about it Rob would be it.

I'll keep everyone posted :helpless:

Wild

wildwhl
02-22-05, 09:16 PM
Well, it would appear this is the latest, greatest differential and it is reported to be upgraded to handle the specific torque of the CTS-V (don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger)

GM PART # 10368780
CATEGORY: Differential Carrier
GM LIST: $1,863.32
OUR PRICE: $1,304.33
DESCRIPTION: CARRIER

miko442
02-23-05, 08:49 AM
That is the part # of the carrier that replaced my first rear on 08/27/2004.
So it seems that is an old part #. By the way this rear started to whine at 2000 miles, plus it has a vibration between 70-85mph. I am not very happy at this point, not getting any hope that these problems will be fixed. :disappoin

ahahnu
02-23-05, 08:56 AM
Has anyone experienced drip form the rear? It's not too much, just a few drops here and there. I've notice the the little circle getting a little alrger on the garage floor.

JBeechel
02-27-05, 09:45 AM
nt... replied to wrong forum.

6104696
02-27-05, 10:03 AM
Has anyone experienced drip form the rear? It's not too much, just a few drops here and there. I've notice the the little circle getting a little alrger on the garage floor.

Ahahnu: you probably have a leaking half-shaft seal. I would guess left-side since that was commonly reported. If it is like mine, it is leaking MUCH more in operation than when parked. Look to see how much oil is smeared on the bottom of the spare tire tub and the bottom of the rear bumper fascia. I'd get it to the dealer NOW, and tell them to replace the diff lube and additive (under warranty) while they are at it. If you run it dry thn you'll need a new diff; if that is your goal, then guide yourself accordingly :sneaky: .

This is a common issue and they fixed mine flawlessly at 500 miles.

doug

Drift-caddy
03-04-05, 06:58 AM
GNSCOTT and BEMRETR

i need your help please in helping a cust out, please see the other post i started

can u please email me at a502sl0@aol.com

thanks
d

jenzkam
03-15-05, 02:54 PM
I also had the rear noise. The noise happened in every gear and was loud. The dealer replaced the rear differential assembly. It has been fine but I've noticed the noise again. It's not as loud but it's still there.

globed70
03-17-05, 09:14 PM
As reported in another thread I started, has a clunk recently (>8000 miles)... not the usually clunk, but a clunk under any power. Also a bit of whine. Took to dealer, they confirmed my complaint, called the GM TAC line, and were told to order a new unit. Recieved in a few days and installed. Car is back with me and fine now. Apparently, one of the mounting bushings was completely deformed. Happy with dealer and their handling of this problem.

Dave's V
03-21-05, 08:59 PM
I think my CTS V rear end is going. I just bought my 05 last week. It had about 640 miles on it. I have noticed a moan/howl from around 35mph to 55mph in any gear, under light acceleration and cruising. Coast or slam the accelerator and it'll go away.

The noise is getting louder and is louder when it warms up. I don't think it is the tranny or tires.

Well I'm taking it in tomorrow to chase down a tire leak (only leaks after driving it on the highway), so I'll have the dealer look at it also.

Does the noise disappear with a new dif? Is the new dif upgraded?

wildwhl
03-21-05, 09:16 PM
The noise goes away with a new diff but may come back. The diff may or may not be upgraded - I've been unable to confirm this. They are, however, using different part numbers than they were last year.

Try having your dealer swap the fluid out (under warranty of course) and see if it gets any better...otherwise a new diff and the associated break in period along with a fluid swap after break in would be my recommendation.

Geez, you'd think GM was tired of paying for these diffs by now and would address the issue correctly :nono:

lasstss
03-21-05, 09:32 PM
The noise goes away with a new diff but may come back. The diff may or may not be upgraded - I've been unable to confirm this. They are, however, using different part numbers than they were last year.

Try having your dealer swap the fluid out (under warranty of course) and see if it gets any better...otherwise a new diff and the associated break in period along with a fluid swap after break in would be my recommendation.

Geez, you'd think GM was tired of paying for these diffs by now and would address the issue correctly :nono:

I got a call from Cadillac tonight, something to the effect of offering me a written rear suspension guarantee for 100K miles. I said sure. She is supposed to call me with the details next week.

Dave's V
03-22-05, 12:29 AM
I have a 100,000 mile GMPP already. I rather have a rear dif that I know that I don't have to worry about. I'll let you guys know what happens with the dealer. This dealer was pretty good with my Pontiac. It had 600 miles on it when I bought it so I'm pretty sure it was abused by the dealer and during test drives. I heard proper break in is essential for the rear dif in these cars. I'm going to have them reseal the LF tire also since I had to put 8 psi in it on a 300 mile trip on Saturday. I'm also going to have them do a synthetic oil change (1st regular oil change is free, I just pay the difference for syn).

Is the rear dif specific to the CTS? I know the engine and tranny came from the Vette, but did the rear dif? If it did, I wonder if the Z06 had these kinds of problems.

Cadillac needs to fix it right. I'm curious to see the long term tests in the magazines. I wouldn't be surprised if they complain about the rear dif, the clunking (which I can live with) and going through tires like crazy.

Dave's V
03-22-05, 08:28 PM
Update on visiting the dealer. They said they have to look at another CTS V to compare to mine. The mechanic said it might be resonace frequencies:wacky:. I suggested they compare mine to a red one they had on the lot. They said it was brand new so they can't compare. I said with 1100 miles I would hope the rear dif doesn't sound like mine. I'm going to give them some more crap later in the week, before I get Cadillac involved.

About the slow leak on the tire. The mechanic said it wasn't leaking so he couldn't fix it. He said the TMS doesn't matter so I shouldn't go by that. I asked "Why did I have to fill it with air 5 times in 500 miles, about 3-4 psi each?". He then was told to check the valve stem and he came back saying he torqued it 1/4 turn. So far no leak. The idiot also put my tires to 35 psi, so now I have to wait to morning to drop them back to 30psi. I guess they can't read door stickers.

Florian
03-22-05, 08:36 PM
Mine finally is giving up the ghost after 23K miles, the howl gets louder and louder (install on Tues next week) got the latest pn 10368780 and we'll see how it goes. My car is the only V this dealer works on and I hate to be the guinea pig, but hey, Ive got 100K warranty on the rig...so let er rip. I also had to take the service tech for a ride in a V they had on the lot to try to duplicate the howl....no dice, then for a ride in my V and it squealed like a sorority gal from 35-50mph.....so new diff here we come.

Florian

Dave's V
03-22-05, 11:06 PM
Soon as it stops raining/snowing, I'm going to demand my dealer take the red one for a spin to prove my dif is going bad.

Dave's V
03-29-05, 10:42 PM
Here is an update on the howl.

The dealer drove that new Redline V as a comparision. It was very quiet. Another mechanic confirmed my howl. The dealer is now engaging with Cadillac. With some luck, I should be getting a new rear dif in the next few weeks.

I currently only have 1500 miles on the "howler". It has been howling since around 900 miles. I bought my car with 661 miles so I'm sure break-in procedure was not followed closely. It is the usual 30-50mph howl in any gear under light acceleration or cruising. Decel, accelerating harder and pushing in the clutch makes the sound go away. I can hear it over the radio now.

My dealer, Young Cadillac, in Layton, Utah has been very helpful and very supportive. They agree it shouldn't howl like it does. I will update you more as I get them.

Dave

Dave's V
03-30-05, 07:25 PM
My Dealer now says the rear dif is now ordered. I'll let you guys know the part number when I get it replaced.

Florian
03-30-05, 10:26 PM
New one installed pn 10368780 desc: Carrier. Done in 6 hrs. Ive got a new car back...none of that friggin howl

Florian

baf_ctsv
03-31-05, 09:22 AM
Add another exploaded diff to the list! Not mine but the local service guy indicated that they repaired one that had a diff case that was cracked in half. Mine now howls once it is warmed up . Of course is was 40 deg and not warmed up when I brought it in to the dealer.

Dave's V
04-08-05, 08:41 PM
They replaced my rear dif today. It took them around 6 hours.

The new part number is 10368780.
They used two bottles of 89021677 lubricant. I asked about the additive but they said with the GL5 lubricant it isn't required. They called the parts counter, technician and they both said it is not required. The service manager said since this was their first V rear end, a lot of mechanics were involved.

Now whine or howl. I can actually hear the exhaust sound now.

wildwhl
04-08-05, 09:13 PM
They replaced my rear dif today. It took them around 6 hours.

The new part number is 10368780.
They used two bottles of 89021677 lubricant. I asked about the additive but they said with the GL5 lubricant it isn't required. They called the parts counter, technician and they both said it is not required. The service manager said since this was their first V rear end, a lot of mechanics were involved.

Now whine or howl. I can actually hear the exhaust sound now.


Hmmm...I'm pretty darn sure the additive is still necessary...Reed? StealthV? GTP?

dannystang
04-08-05, 11:29 PM
Ohh add me to the list...

I couldn't believe I had a new pumpkin but sure enough my digital photographs don't dont match...

650 - new rear

750 - new whine

1000 - New lubricant...keeping fingers crossed.

Dreamin
04-10-05, 01:42 AM
Hmmm...I'm pretty darn sure the additive is still necessary...Reed? StealthV? GTP?

It's in the friggin' owners manual... Dealers are so stuipid :banghead::banghead:

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pdf/2k05cts_ctsv.pdf
Page 6-14

wildwhl
04-10-05, 03:23 AM
Dave's V -

Go back to your dealer ASAP and insist on the additive...remember, my diff #2 failed primarily due to the lack of additive that my dealer INSISTED wasn't necessary.

If you have to :brutal:

Dave's V
04-10-05, 03:30 PM
I did insist they put the additive in. They checked the books again and they said it wasn't required so they are not going to do it. He said he looked at the V series replacing rear end instuctions and it said it mentioned the new fluid PN but NOT the additive.

I'm not about to stick it in myself and risk losing a warranty claim later. If my rear end blows then at least it is their fault if missing the additive was the cause.

The owners manual is correct from what was told if you use the old fluid. You MUST use the additive then.

From what I have been told, the new fluid (grape scented stuff) meets GL-5 standards which means the additive is already part of the fluid. Red line says their synthetic fluid also meets GL-5 standards and does NOT require the additive.

I owned a TA before so I know how important it was to add the additive. If the dealer won't put it in my V than there isn't much I can do. I am going to contact Cadillac and ask them.

In about 1000 miles, I plan on doing a fluid change using Redline. I heard it is a better quality fluid. Anyone use Royal Purple?

It sounds like GM needs to properly train their service mechanics. Another member PM'd me and said his dealer said his rear dif was "factory-filled."

Wildwhl,
Your case does stick in my mind. On your second dif, which fluid did they use?

Guys,
The only thing that concerns me is that if GL-5 standard fluid is supposed to have the additive in there, our cars and other cars than use the fluid might not need the additive any more. Being an aircraft mechanic, I know how maintenance manuals change. Could our rear ends been failiing because the factory forgot to add the addtive in, so GM changed the fluid so it doesn't need it. Anyone have a rear end fail that is the new pn 10368780 and with the new fluid? How about then with or without the additive.

I'll talk to Cadillac and I'll let you know what they say.

wildwhl
04-10-05, 03:40 PM
I'm not certain which fluid they used in the 2nd diff...however the current (3rd) diff had the grape smelling fluid AND the additive as my dealer felt the lack of additive was the primary reason for the early failure of unit #2.

I'd have to look at the receipts and see which fluid they used in diff #2...I can do that tomorrow if you wish.

Either way, change it before 1000 miles with something you like (I'm using Royal Purple now) and you'll know it is right.

WW

Dreamin
04-10-05, 04:01 PM
From what I have been told, the new fluid (grape scented stuff) meets GL-5 standards which means the additive is already part of the fluid. That's not correct... GL-5 is a generic API standard and has nothing to do with the additive.

Your redline comment is true, but see the pages below... Redline has two 75W90 gear oils, both meet GL-5, one has additive, one does not.
http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?pvID=81&prodID=60&subcatID=20
http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?pvID=82&prodID=60&subcatID=20
http://www.drivetrain.com/redlinedifflube.html

FWIW, GM did recently change diff oil part numbers: from 12378261 to 89021677

But Vette's getting thier diff oil change are still getting the additive, even with the new part number.
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showpost.php?p=721864&postcount=7

Dave's V
04-10-05, 04:09 PM
Wildwhl,
That will be great if you check the receipts.

I contacted Cadillac today and the person I talked to is going to ask a couple dealers in his area. He believes with the info he has that the new fluid doesn't require the additve. I'll know something late tomorrow.

I plan on changing the fluid after break-in. I do remember that F-bodies required the fluid to be changed at 7,500 miles then it was supposedly good to go. I had other serious problems with my TA so I didn't keep it long enough to change it again.

Thanks.

Dave

jdodman
04-10-05, 06:44 PM
For the record. My first rear was on the fence when I went to the dealer and they decided lets just change the oil in the rear and see how it goes. Lots of crap in the oil so it did not look good. About 1-2 weeks later the rear squeel was louder then ever. I pulled out the the paper work and realized they did not put in the posi tracktion additive. When I called them back, pointed this out, said the rear is going to grenade any day now, AND that they forgot the GM posis additive, I got a whole new rear...

Dave's V
04-10-05, 06:48 PM
For the record. My first rear was on the fence when I went to the dealer and they decided lets just change the oil in the rear and see how it goes. Lots of crap in the oil so it did not look good. About 1-2 weeks later the rear squeel was louder then ever. I pulled out the the paper work and realized they did not put in the posi tracktion additive. When I called them back, pointed this out, said the rear is going to grenade any day now, AND that they forgot the GM posis additive, I got a whole new rear...

Did they use the old fluid pn or the current grape scented stuff?

jdodman
04-10-05, 07:08 PM
They used the GM posis additive for sure, which is really good stuff. I use it on my GN. I did not see any grape scented oil or additive on the job..

Dreamin
04-10-05, 07:13 PM
More evidence that dealers are using diff additive with the new fluid... I'll keep searching for contradictory info, but I haven't found any yet.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1037657 (Post #4)
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1021973 (Post #9)

jdodman
04-10-05, 07:25 PM
You have to remember, even old time caddy mechanics have never had to deal with posi rears or the additive. They told me the best (and oldest) mechanic in the shop worked on the V's, and even he did not realize the rear calls for the posi additive.

Thank God for warrantee's..

PS - I have had zero problems with the second rear but the hop continues to get worse.

Dave's V
04-10-05, 09:37 PM
More evidence that dealers are using diff additive with the new fluid... I'll keep searching for contradictory info, but I haven't found any yet.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1037657 (Post #4)
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1021973 (Post #9)

Well my break in miles are almost done so I'll probably be switching to either Royal Purple or Redline this week. Both have the "friction modifyer" already. I heard they are better anyways and about 1/2 the price.

I'll probably have them do the tranny also. Engine oil was already changed around 1000 miles on the car.

wildwhl
04-10-05, 10:18 PM
Highly recommend the tranny and rear diff - and I used Royal Purple in both. The tranny is definitely smoother and quieter through the Mallett shifter than before.

I bought 4 bottles of the rear diff fluid thinking it would take 2 and I might make a mistake (spill)...but it takes about a bottle and a half. So, that means I have two more fluid swaps worth on hand...and I'll do it again in 1,000 miles and one more time 5,000 miles later if the diff lasts that long. Takes so little time there's no reason not to (plus, I'll be under there for headers, lowering the car before much longer, etc.).

apopple
04-12-05, 09:25 PM
You know, I am so unobservant at times, I almost missed this whining. The car runs fine, but in the middle gears, 3, 4, and 5 especially, as I just give it a little gas, I get an annoying medium pitched whining in the rear. If I put the clutch in, it goes away, or if I give it a lot of gas it goes away also. It doesn't feel like it makes my V unroadworthy, but...

ds

I have the exact same problem. Car is at dealer right now.

rg351
04-15-05, 07:51 AM
Hi I am a newbie to forms.I have a 04 V that we campained in One lap of America last year.This car is going back for 05 One lap but 2 weeks ago the dreaded diff whine started so I bought new diff to install this weekend.Thanks to this form for all the good info & part#'s/.Does any one have GM dissassembley procedure.

ahahnu
04-15-05, 10:03 AM
You can chalk me to the list of whiners. I dismissed it untill a few days ago when I noticing it get real bad in 4th at about 40 - 46.

willsctsv
04-15-05, 10:55 AM
Just added Lucas gear oil. The whine has become a little less audible.
That was not the case on my first rear with redline oil.

I'll keep you posted as I rack up some more miles on this rear. I'm hoping this will work!

Bob Showalter
04-19-05, 11:47 AM
My '04 whined at 3.5k. Dealer put in new rear end in December, worked fine. At 8.5k today, I noticed the whine is back. Not a drag racer. Love everything about the machine except the rough ride and the tires that wear when stared at.

DAYMAN
04-21-05, 03:43 PM
Noted Dave's V post from 4/8, and went back and pulled my service record for when my diff was replaced last December, at 3700 mi. I thought the P/N's looked familiar, and sure 'nough, they are:

1 10368780 - Carrier
2 89021677 - Lubricant

I too was told that the additive wasn't required when I questioned them about it. I haven't driven the V much since it's been garaged for the winter, but it is definitely something I will keep on top of!

Dayman

Dave's V
04-21-05, 06:31 PM
Noted Dave's V post from 4/8, and went back and pulled my service record for when my diff was replaced last December, at 3700 mi. I thought the P/N's looked familiar, and sure 'nough, they are:

1 10368780 - Carrier
2 89021677 - Lubricant

I too was told that the additive wasn't required when I questioned them about it. I haven't driven the V much since it's been garaged for the winter, but it is definitely something I will keep on top of!

Dayman

It sounds like you got the new part numbers for the dif and fluid. I talked to Cadillac and they said the additive wasn't required with the new fluid. Regardless, I switched to redline after breakin.

LV_V
04-28-05, 03:56 AM
I'm on my 4th diff... But car's in the shop for some "minor" bodywork after a run in with a tree at around 50.

THORNY'SV
04-28-05, 05:08 AM
j

VMC
04-28-05, 04:13 PM
My first differential was replaced at about 7000 mi after a prolonged ordeal with the dealer. I had to mount a transducer on the differential housing and tape record the whistle/growl to get some action.

The new unit is great when it is cold outside and I don't drive too far. After it heats up it begins to make noise. Am now at 28000 mi. Am thinking of putting 90 W 140 oil in it but am afraid to void the warrenty

Anyone try higher viscosity oil?

thebigjimsho
05-09-05, 07:56 AM
ahem...cough.:banghead:

wildwhl
05-12-05, 05:09 PM
ahem...cough.:banghead:

Now this makes sense to me :mad:

CVP33
05-12-05, 06:24 PM
Not the club we were hoping to join.

wildwhl
05-12-05, 06:54 PM
Becoming less and less elite as well :nono:


Such a shame...maybe I do need to rething the E55 thing.

beast
05-12-05, 09:40 PM
I am new to this forum sight but I have found it very useful so far. I was wondering if you guys could help me. I notice that not only myself but others have experience their rear differentials replaced. I am getting my rear replaced for the 3rd time(meaning 4 rears so far including the factory one). If you guys could list how many each of you have had yours replaced, that would help me in a campaign with the V and Cadillac. Thanks.

ChrisFrez
05-13-05, 09:45 AM
Add me to the list as well :( Brought the V in this morning to have the recalls done and the PCM reprogrammed per the TSB for the high oil temp light. I let me know of a low howl noise coming from the rear noticable at about 45-47mph in 4th gear. They ordered me a new rear differential.

beast
05-13-05, 10:12 AM
Also, if you have had your rear replaced more than one time , would you please list how many rears. Thanks.

benjet
05-13-05, 11:22 AM
I am new to this forum sight but I have found it very useful so far. I was wondering if you guys could help me. I notice that not only myself but others have experience their rear differentials replaced. I am getting my rear replaced for the 3rd time(meaning 4 rears so far including the factory one). If you guys could list how many each of you have had yours replaced, that would help me in a campaign with the V and Cadillac. Thanks.

Did 3 rears fail (break), or just make alot of noise?

There was a poll some time ago about # of rears replaces, do a search..

LS6-CTS-V
05-16-05, 12:52 PM
I have a clunck/ backlash in the drive train. The dealer tells me he ordered the Diff. and it will be shipped in by 5-17-05. That's when they will call me and set up another appointment. I'll get some pic's tonight 5-16-05 and compare the two, and ask the if the new fluid is in it or not.

I'll get back to you guys real soon, and let you know what is up.

I think we are facing a brick wall.

The question is: Does Cadillac Know how to build a Preformance Car Or Not?

c5racr1
05-16-05, 05:05 PM
on my second rear, and today i began to hear teh famuliar howel! I wish thay would fix this!

JaTo
05-19-05, 09:29 AM
I'm a first-time poster here (hello) but a long-time wallflower on this forum and have been watching the diff. issue quite attentively. I've been pining after the CTS-V ever since it's appearance, but I've gone through 2 cars in my past that had weak clutch assemblies or "glass" differential assemblies that simply loved to implode once anything resembling aggressive driving took place...

I own a 2000 C5 Corvette that has seen very spirited driving (over 30K miles worth) without a single hiccup with the T-56 or the diff. in it. I don't buy performance cars to "idle" down the freeway in, so I'm unfortunately on the fence about purchasing a CTS-V anytime soon, which is a bloody shame.

Without further preamble, I guess I'm trying to get a feel of this group's comfort-level with GM and any potential resolution to this problem; are there any aftermarket differentials that can be dropped in that will handle the TQ? Any other fixes outside of letting a $tealership $ervice department play the "swap the diff" game until GM red-flags your warranty?

I really have been lusting over these automobiles, but this entire episode has me wringing my hands.

Dave's V
05-19-05, 06:57 PM
JaTo,
The reports on the rear dif on this board wouldn't prevent me from buying the car. If you ask how many people replaced due to a whine or howl, you have a lot of people. On a recent poll, 1/2 of the people that posted had no rear end problems at all.

However, if you look and the rear ends that imploded, exploded or whatever, then you are probably looking a half dozen, dozen at the most. Some are modded, some are not. Some were broken in per Cadillac instructions, others were driven like you stole it.

There isn't any rear ends readily available to drop in right now. GM has a new part number that seemed to fix a few cars, but not others.

I believe the wheel hop issue causes the rear ends to whine or fail quick. A rear end jumping around can not be a good thing for reliability.

I say buy the car. You might have a rear end problem, you might not. You will love driving this car. Even the people that have had multiple problems still love this car.

willsctsv
06-03-05, 03:06 PM
3600 miles on the rear now. It started whining at 300 miles but now is beginning to leak, even though the whine has not gottem louder.
I guess I'll b eback at Cadillac for another rear soon.
This is really inconveinent, and is depolrable for a performance car for 50K.

Maybe I should of saved 20K and bought a Rustang!:hide:

carguy16
06-05-05, 09:15 PM
Define jumping and hopping.

JaTo,
The reports on the rear dif on this board wouldn't prevent me from buying the car. If you ask how many people replaced due to a whine or howl, you have a lot of people. On a recent poll, 1/2 of the people that posted had no rear end problems at all.

However, if you look and the rear ends that imploded, exploded or whatever, then you are probably looking a half dozen, dozen at the most. Some are modded, some are not. Some were broken in per Cadillac instructions, others were driven like you stole it.

There isn't any rear ends readily available to drop in right now. GM has a new part number that seemed to fix a few cars, but not others.

I believe the wheel hop issue causes the rear ends to whine or fail quick. A rear end jumping around can not be a good thing for reliability.

I say buy the car. You might have a rear end problem, you might not. You will love driving this car. Even the people that have had multiple problems still love this car.

CTS5
06-05-05, 10:28 PM
I think it is. Prolly bad since new, only 500 miles on it now. Groans and binds when turning. The dealer gets it tomorrow around 8am, we'll see what I get for a loaner, last time was another V. Washed and prepped to hopefully get some TLC from the technicians. :crying2:

Dave's V
06-05-05, 11:45 PM
I think it is. Prolly bad since new, only 500 miles on it now. Groans and binds when turning. The dealer gets it tomorrow around 8am, we'll see what I get for a loaner, last time was another V. Washed and prepped to hopefully get some TLC from the technicians. :crying2:

It sounds like someone forgot the additive at the factory. Good luck! If not, your rear end went bad (not failed) 2x as fast as mine did.

CTS5
06-06-05, 10:01 PM
New rear to be installed tomorrow, haven't got the diagnosis yet.

GT04CTS-V
06-09-05, 08:16 PM
Yep - Rear is toast 2004-V - 2,600 miles. Whines loudest at 43 MPH, steady throttle. Took car back to the dealer and a mechanic went with me for a test ride. (Don't like anyone else driving the car unless I'm there) He heard the noise and has ordered a new differential. It's been on order for two weeks. As soon as the rear is replaced, I'm adding the Maggie - and keeping my fingers crossed.

CTS5
06-09-05, 09:46 PM
Hmmm....Dealer got my new diff in the next day.

Chuck_V
06-13-05, 06:58 PM
Bummer for my first post to be about this but... Car is a 2005 with 8k miles on it and I too have the rear whine in 4th between 35 and 45mph. I just got it back from the dealer here in CLT NC and of course they drove it but could not hear the noise (as usual they never can repro). I am starting to suspect this dealer is a bunch of deaf and blind people because even my 6 year old has asked me what "that" noise is.

GT04CTS-V
06-14-05, 07:53 PM
Called the Dealer this afternoon and found out that the differential has been there for over a week now. They didn't even bother to call me. My car goes in the shop on Friday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and enabling tracking on the Nav.
:nono:

lasstss
06-16-05, 10:28 PM
My turn, I called Jim at Lindsay and put the new diff on order. Mine is pretty whiney now.

BowenCT
06-16-05, 10:45 PM
Do people still read this thread? Anyway............My diff started whining at around 500 miles, had the fluid and additive swaped at 800 and the whine was completely gone. Well the whine came back at about 3000 miles, swapped fluid and additive again at 3800 and the whine is still there.......the second swap didn't even quiet it at all. I guess it's time to see if the dealer will order a new one. It is just comical that we are changing out parts as major as the rear end with so few miles.........unbelieveable.

lasstss
06-17-05, 09:32 AM
Do people still read this thread? Anyway............My diff started whining at around 500 miles, had the fluid and additive swaped at 800 and the whine was completely gone. Well the whine came back at about 3000 miles, swapped fluid and additive again at 3800 and the whine is still there.......the second swap didn't even quiet it at all. I guess it's time to see if the dealer will order a new one. It is just comical that we are changing out parts as major as the rear end with so few miles.........unbelieveable.

Well, its either a metalurgical problem or Getrag doesnt know how to set up lash properly. COuld also be that the cas isnt stable. One thing is for sure, the case on this diff gets damn hot.

BowenCT
06-17-05, 03:35 PM
Do people still read this thread? Anyway............My diff started whining at around 500 miles, had the fluid and additive swaped at 800 and the whine was completely gone. Well the whine came back at about 3000 miles, swapped fluid and additive again at 3800 and the whine is still there.......the second swap didn't even quiet it at all. I guess it's time to see if the dealer will order a new one. It is just comical that we are changing out parts as major as the rear end with so few miles.........unbelieveable.

UPDATE: Just got off the phone with the dealer, "Looks like we're going to get you a brand new rear end. We'll call you when it arrives."

And obviously they blamed it on me not following the strict break-in procedure for the first 500 miles. Either way, I'm getting a new rear, and I'm sure I'll be visiting them again for the same issue in the not-so-distant future.

Go Cadillac!

GT04CTS-V
06-17-05, 06:50 PM
Fricken Fitzgerald...
Left the V at the dealer to have the rear replaced this morning. They called me after having the car for 5 hours and said "You're not going to believe this". When we went to the parts department to get your new rear, it was damaged in shipment and we have to order another one, should take about a week or so. I went to the dealer and asked to see the damaged unit. Sure enough, it looks like the truck they were going to ship in on was full and instead they dragged the box behind the truck. Most of the fins were broken and the rear was leaking. Damn, should have kept my WRX. I'll never get the maggie installed.
:banghead:

lasstss
06-17-05, 10:54 PM
Fricken Fitzgerald...
Left the V at the dealer to have the rear replaced this morning. They called me after having the car for 5 hours and said "You're not going to believe this". When we went to the parts department to get your new rear, it was damaged in shipment and we have to order another one, should take about a week or so. I went to the dealer and asked to see the damaged unit. Sure enough, it looks like the truck they were going to ship in on was full and instead they dragged the box behind the truck. Most of the fins were broken and the rear was leaking. Damn, should have kept my WRX. I'll never get the maggie installed.
:banghead:

You have to order it first.....:D

GT04CTS-V
07-02-05, 07:48 AM
You have to order it first.....:D


Actually, you have to receive it first. :bouncy:

GT04CTS-V
07-02-05, 07:53 AM
Rear was finally replaced yesterday. Now it's quiet as a mouse. Wonder how long this will last?? Here are the part numbers:

10368780 - Carrier
89021677 - Lubricant

I asked the service manager about the limited slip additive, his response was that it's not needed with the synthetic gear oil that GM uses.

:lies: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=98#)

StealthV
07-02-05, 09:35 AM
Gear whine hypothesis - the compartment gets on the warm side, breaks down the additive package in the lube and the gears start to whine.

There are 15k miles on my original diff to date and it has gone from as delivered quiet to whine to quiet to whine and quiet again.

What makes it quiet? Fresh GM lube...thus the theory - 5k mile additive breakdown with my driving envirnoment. Are 5k mile lube changes an elegant, long term solution? No. Is it better than letting the dealer touch the V? Absolutely. Perhaps I should start sending Cadillac the $70.70 bill for the lube + labor charges and lets not forget "disposal" and misc. "shop supplies" fees every 5k miles.

This latest change at 15k miles on the odometer was the first with the new "grape" lube and additive (dealer said wasn't necessary :helpless: ). In a few months I'll know if it is any better than the "original" that was used the first two lube changes. At 15k, the magnetic plug didn't look too bad - just a few small filings - but the fluid was nasty black again.

The largest heat generating mode of a ring and pinion gear set is angular velocity, not low speed loading of high torque input (i.e. hard on the throttle through 1st and 2nd gear). If one does any extended relatively high speed interstate trips or that 100+ mph dash for a few miles and the diff starts to whine - change the lube (or convince your dealer to perform it) and in my experience it will be whisper quiet again.

Yes it sucks and shouldn't be happening now for 3+ years on the CTS platform. :rant2:

Chuck_V
07-04-05, 06:52 AM
What makes it quiet? Fresh GM lube...thus the theory - 5k mile additive breakdown with my driving envirnoment. Are 5k mile lube changes an elegant, long term solution? No. Is it better than letting the dealer touch the V? Absolutely. Perhaps I should start sending Cadillac the $70.70 bill for the lube + labor charges and lets not forget "disposal" and misc. "shop supplies" fees every 5k miles.


Just add that to the cost per mile of running the Run Craps, fuel and insurance costs and damn this car is getting very freakin expensive to drive!!

C

seanr56
07-06-05, 02:14 PM
The rear end (differential longevity and excessive wheel hop) should definitely be GM's their top concern for the CTS-V. Virtually every professional review as well as a ton of private owners have made comments about the excessive wheel hop. We have seen pictures and heard rumors about GM putting the 6.0 liter LS engine from the 2005-2006 Corvette in the CTS-V and upping the power to the 475hp range. I think they would be foolish for attempting this without serious modifications to the car. That would certainly cause the price to climb another 10-20k and probably cause it to be hit with the gas guzzler tax. They won't do that because it would put it in the price range of an STS-V and the price would no longer be competitive against the imports. This car has enough problems with the rear end with 400hp. Could you imagine the mess it would be with 475?

BowenCT
07-06-05, 03:59 PM
The rear end (differential longevity and excessive wheel hop) should definitely be GM's their top concern for the CTS-V. Virtually every professional review as well as a ton of private owners have made comments about the excessive wheel hop. We have seen pictures and heard rumors about GM putting the 6.0 liter LS engine from the 2005-2006 Corvette in the CTS-V and upping the power to the 475hp range. I think they would be foolish for attempting this without serious modifications to the car. That would certainly cause the price to climb another 10-20k and probably cause it to be hit with the gas guzzler tax. They won't do that because it would put it in the price range of an STS-V and the price would no longer be competitive against the imports. This car has enough problems with the rear end with 400hp. Could you imagine the mess it would be with 475?

Someone give this kid a gold star!

rg351
07-11-05, 08:17 AM
Yes my rearend shot,again,first at 11000 next one,part#10361308,at 17000.From my experience heat is the getreg's worst enemy.The case is to thin and expands to much allowing the gears to move out of alinement and there is not enough fluid to keep it cool.I drive the car first thing in the morning quite as a church mouse in 45min. to an hour screaming like banshee.I have heard that GM has an oil cooler for the rearend I have not been able to find any part#s for it.

Dave's V
07-12-05, 11:23 AM
If there is an oil cooler it would save them a lot of money if they retrofitted the current Vs.

lasstss
07-19-05, 03:29 PM
Diff #2 goes in tomorrow. I had a reinforcement ring made. While the rear is out, I am going to fit it up to check the bolt pattern.

ahahnu
07-25-05, 12:59 AM
After the petition about the wheel hop finally they atleast gave us snubbers. Who's got the one about the rears started. Mine is howling, and I'm gonna take it in tomorrow to see what they say.

rg351
07-25-05, 09:45 PM
I have made a fitting for a temp gage for the rearend and so far with only short drives the temp reaches in 90 deg F weather it will run 195 to 200, with hills or mild aggessive driving 210 to 220.I hope to have a lapping day at The Glen in Aug to see what kind of temp it get at the track,if it goes over 270 or 280 I see big problems with oil breakdown and case distortion.

Staxxin
08-01-05, 11:42 AM
Does the failing rear-end (diff) issue plague 2005's? The reason I ask is before I do a bunch of mods. I want to make sure I'm not just going to blow out my rear and then be responsible for repair expense.

Chuck_V
08-02-05, 09:18 PM
Does the failing rear-end (diff) issue plague 2005's? The reason I ask is before I do a bunch of mods. I want to make sure I'm not just going to blow out my rear and then be responsible for repair expense.

Yes!

Had mine just replaced at 9800 miles.

C

CTS5
08-03-05, 12:12 AM
Mine was replaced at 500 miles (whine and bind). Just had the lube on the new one changed with 1600 miles on it to hopefully stop the "parking lot maneuver" groaning noises (it did stop the noise immediately). I insisted that the FM additive be put in (the tech agreed with this 100%). I want to keep this diff as it has no whining yet. 2005 BTW.

NH Vrod
08-06-05, 04:12 PM
Ive got 2,400 miles and it is wasted, I have a new one on the way!!

DeputyDog
08-07-05, 08:49 PM
Bought my V in June 05. Has 2,700 miles and it is whining. Dealer is going to replace the rear end. Says it takes a week to get.

Staxxin
08-08-05, 01:31 PM
What does the noise sound like?

DeputyDog
08-08-05, 09:24 PM
To me it sounds like a high pitch howling. Best way i can describe it. when I was driving down the road I could very clearly here the noise.

GT04CTS-V
08-09-05, 10:02 PM
Got my second diff at 3220 miles. Now the car has 3704 miles on it, the new diff has only 484 miles on it. Decided to go ahead and change the diff oil. The oil was dirty and the magnetic drain plug was completely saturated in metal filings and sludge. Was very surprised to find such a large quantity of metal this early. And yes, I have been being very gentle to this diff, no wheel hopping, quick starts, or hard acceleration.

So far, the rear remains quiet, but I do plan on changing the oil again in another 500 miles. Talk about treading softly. :nono:

CVP33
08-09-05, 11:12 PM
I've been in 3 times.

Outer half shaft
Inner half shaft
Complete Rear Differential Assembly and Propeler Shaft (drive shaft) Replaced

I'll be going in for another new rear differential very soon as they did not put in the additive. Claimed that it wasn't needed because I don't have a limited slip differential.

DeputyDog
08-10-05, 11:59 PM
I spoke to my dealer today to make an appoinment to have the rearend replaced and I ask him about the additive. He told me because this is there first one they are only going to do what GM says to do nothing more. Is there a TSB on the additive so I can show them when I take it in.

Geoff

JGA
08-11-05, 09:52 PM
I just got back from the dealer a couple hours ago. Looks like I am going to get differential number 3 shortly. My 04 CTS-V just turned 20,000 miles. The first one started howling at 2500 miles and was replaced at 9000 miles. It howled loudest at 46mph under light accel and the noise was gone by 52mph. The second diff started howling 14,000 miles and this one howls at 45 and 55 again under light accel. As other people have noted, mine is quiet when first starting out in the morning. When the 2nd diff first started howling this spring when the weather was in the 60s, I mentioned it when I had it at the dealer for routine service and they couldn't hear anything and blew it off saying the car has a 50,000 mile warrenty, so don't worry about it. Now that it is August and 90 degrees, it starts howling after 10 miles or so. Has any one ever gotten a satisfactory cure? I really wonder about keeping this car long term.

Jurisimprudence
08-14-05, 06:56 PM
Does anyone know of anyone who hasn't had any problems with their differential? If so, do they even drive the car?

CTSVONFIRE
08-16-05, 05:08 PM
I had a BMR pinion brace up until this weekend. The pinion stay still but the rest of the case didn't. Starting at the bottom of the case a 1/2" crack followed the pinion brace around the side and over the top. It didn't crack allthe way around but it sure came close. Thank god 4 warranty.

Dave's V
08-16-05, 05:31 PM
Mine takes about 1/2 hour in hot temperatures after highway driving to start moaning. It is definitely not like the howl when my first dif crapped out. That occured within 5 miles of driving in April (we got snow in May). The way I look at it there is generally 3 noises the V makes.

Moaning - Not loud, notieable barely usually after it warms up

Howl - Sounds like a 70s rear end, takes very little time in all temperatures

Boom - Time to call Cadillac or use onstar if you have it.

Lucas oil has helped somewhat. I got Cadillac to put the OK to use Lucas in my file just in case.

Cadillac does need to fix it though. Pilgrams gears (probably the rear's) were whining pretty good this weekend in Denver when he passed by me during a caution. Enough to hear it over the side pipe mufferless exhaust.

lasstss
08-17-05, 12:58 PM
OK gang, here is the word from Getrag USA..... LSD it is!
We need this stuff.

The CTS-V differential is a limited slip 3.73 application and requires ~
7% friction modified oil. The LS additive is required if a manual mix
(oil + friction modifier) is utilized in fluid changes.

Note: If friction modified oil is not used at the appropriate fm
concentration a possible grind/growl condition could result.

Regards,
William

CTSV05
08-25-05, 12:00 PM
I had a BMR pinion brace up until this weekend. The pinion stay still but the rest of the case didn't. Starting at the bottom of the case a 1/2" crack followed the pinion brace around the side and over the top. It didn't crack allthe way around but it sure came close. Thank god 4 warranty.

Looks like mine pulled away from my pinion support too.

Not sure as I haven't been underneath, but I had bolts and pieces where it busted, very ugly.

I haven't paid attention to this thread, this rearend issue is ludicris!!!

HDMLNIUM
08-25-05, 08:16 PM
You can add me to the list, My diff has been leaking very little for a little while now, and on Sunday she started to puddle under the car. Anyway I dropped it off on Monday for a number of things to be replaced. The clutch and battery is already done, and the diff is set in. They will finish that up as well as the bushings tomorrow. I ended up having a small hairline crack in the case right above the Getrag name on the diff. Here is a couple pictures, not really sure if you will be able to see it but thought I would post it anyway. I am not putting back on the BMR pinion support for now as the dealer thinks that may have been part of the problem.
Bill
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Diff-leak.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Cracked-diff.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Cracked-diff1.jpg

CTSV05
08-25-05, 09:45 PM
Bill,

Maybe, maybe not.

I feel my support is the only reason my diff lasted as long as it did. Otherwise I believe the constant pinion angle changes would have caused a failure long ago.

HDMLNIUM
08-25-05, 10:00 PM
Bill,

Maybe, maybe not.

I feel my support is the only reason my diff lasted as long as it did. Otherwise I believe the constant pinion angle changes would have caused a failure long ago.

Yeah, I hear you.. My thoughts as well.
But since the dealer is being cool with my mods and since they know I do drag it I told them I will try it their way this time. He said what's the worst that could happen, they replace it again?... lol

Bill

CVP33
08-25-05, 10:07 PM
Yeah, I hear you.. My thoughts as well.
But since the dealer is being cool with my mods and since they know I do drag it I told them I will try it their way this time. He said what's the worst that could happen, they replace it again?... lol

Bill

That's not the worst that could happen.

HDMLNIUM
08-25-05, 10:28 PM
That's not the worst that could happen.

I try to look on the bright side, but sure they could refuse to fix it again. I guess that would be worse.. But I will give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that they really do want to make me happy. The Service manager knew who I was the first day we met, I didn't know him but he knew of me and knew I liked my mods.. lol That broke the ice and so far he hasn't given me a reason to get rid of the V for a new project yet.. Time will tell but I hope it stays like this for atleast next season as well. After next season I know I will most likely be getting board with the V and it will be time for something else, but it would be nice to have 2 great years with the V, maybe longer..;)

Bill

CTSV05
08-26-05, 08:13 AM
Rill,

At least you have a good relationship, it seems many have a terrible time with the dealers.

See what happens, I'll be intereseted to hear how the car acts with the other parts still on and no support, keep me informed if you would.

HDMLNIUM
08-26-05, 06:31 PM
Got the car back from the Dealer today, with no problems...

They changed the clutch, new battery, new Differential, and the GM bushings.
I haven't had her above 3k rpm's yet and plan on a nice long family ride tomorrow to break the new diff in.
I just got done washing the car top to bottom to underneath... lol
One thing I noticed while I was under there cleaning is that the new white GM bushings sit in there loose?? Are they suppose to be like that, I checked the torque and the rears clicked at 140lbs and the fronts clicked at 185lbs so they are atleast that tight.. haha
After she breaks in I will try her out and if the BMR was better then I will be putting that back on.
I will keep you up to date Doug, and let you know how she acts with just the GM bushings, the BMR toe rods, BMR trailing arms, and the BMR cross bar. I hope she still has no hope but time will tell..
Oh, and my Dealer is Bill Dodge Cadillac in Westbrook, Maine.. I will highly recommend them to any V owners in the area that need work performed.. They get my :2thumbs: approval... :yup:
Bill

NIK
09-01-05, 01:55 PM
Does anyone know of anyone who hasn't had any problems with their differential? If so, do they even drive the car?

Thousands of us have never had a problem - I have an '05 with 7400 miles on it and I drive it daily and year round. Everything's quiet as a mouse - no clunks, no vibrations, no leaks. Of course, I don't drive it like I stole it .... I don't do burnouts or dump the clutch, etc., but I have had several races with it and it always met the challenge.

akm2k5
09-01-05, 04:28 PM
any updates on 06 rear ends?

wildwhl
09-02-05, 01:28 AM
HDMLNIUM -

What kind of slip is this?

"I hope she still has no HOPE but time will tell." Seems like your cursing your own V!

:histeric:

CTSV05
09-02-05, 11:34 AM
The '06 rear will be at least a month before the # is good.

Bill, let me know, when you can "drive it like you stole it" again.

I have a kit going out today to a guy that just had the factory "fix" put in.

As I will also when the new, well, same piece of crap, gets put in.

Oh, and for Nik, I drive my car like I BOUGHT it, and for the priviledge that 47K investment gets me.

Dave's V
09-03-05, 10:36 PM
Thousands of us have never had a problem - I have an '05 with 7400 miles on it and I drive it daily and year round. Everything's quiet as a mouse - no clunks, no vibrations, no leaks. Of course, I don't drive it like I stole it .... I don't do burnouts or dump the clutch, etc., but I have had several races with it and it always met the challenge.

Be very careful, you may have just jinxed yourself. People should not have to worry about how they are driving the ~ $50k car once they buy it. I agree with CTSV05 that his rear end would have failed a long time ago without his support.

The rear end in this car is not designed to withstand the torque of the LS6 and that is the problem. It also doesn't have enough fluid to keep it cool enough.

The people that didn't have a problem yet are either a)very lucky, b)shouldn't be driving a 400hp performance car in the first place, c) don't know this site exists so they think their rear dif noise is "normal" or d) are deaf.

Regardless, after 7400 miles I wouldn't feel like it will last forever.

rjbryla
09-04-05, 03:15 PM
My turn. Early '05 model (I think it came off the line Sept-Oct 2004?). Around 6K miles a couple months ago, started hearing the whine with moderate acceleration, any gear, around 30-45MPH. No significant hot rodding yet, other than a few (?!?) sub-5 0-60's from a stop light to impress the ladies... :cool2:

First trip to the dealer, replaced all fluids, they didn't see any shavings though. Told me to let it "break in" for at least a few hundred more miles. No difference. Now has about 7K miles on it.

Took it in again, they had it almost two weeks -- first tried to swap out a lot of rear end parts per GM district manager suggestion. They said that made no difference, so they kept it another week and ordered a whole rear end.

Only took about a day to replace the whole thing, now at about 7.5K all you can hear is the engine purring or growling... the way it should be!

So, I'm happy for now... :bomb:

FLsilverV
09-07-05, 03:43 PM
suprisingly i have 15000 on the v and (Knock on wood) have had not a problem with the diff yet

ahahnu
09-21-05, 12:06 PM
I've been holding off on this thread till I was sure. CTSV05 congrats on getting the first "new" diff. You deserved it after what they put you through. My rear diff was whining along time ago, and I just waited to see if they were going to fix the problem, and or the wheel hop problem. Once the bushings came out, I brought her in for that, the rear, and a rattle. They fixed the rattle, and the car feels a little different (tighter) so I believe the bubshings were installed. On my way home from the dealer I was trying all different speeds in different gears on the highway. It was making a soft whine in 6th, which turned out to be pretty annoying the next day coming home from work. Today I was finally able to take it on a ride to further check it out. Now it whines almost worse then before in 4th, and now 6th whines, it didn't before. I'm gonna call and let them know, I also want to wait for the "new" rear, so I'll post back again when that happens.

CaddyGeek
09-21-05, 06:04 PM
I'm too lazy to sift through all these responses. Does anyone know how many diff replacements have been reported on the forum?

benjet
09-21-05, 06:23 PM
I'm too lazy to sift through all these responses. Does anyone know how many diff replacements have been reported on the forum?

IIRC about 60 V's

SRXer
09-22-05, 11:58 AM
B4Z,
What ended up being the problem with the rearend. I have a 05 SRX with 5400 miles and have been experiencing the whining for some time. Today's the 2nd day in the shop and they seem puzzled. The problem seems the same.
Tks

CaddyGeek
09-22-05, 05:27 PM
Ben,

Thanks for the info.

About 60 members have had diffs replaced and some have had diffs replaced more than once. I bet we could be over 100 diffs by now.

SRXer
09-22-05, 05:48 PM
Add my SRX to the list. They just ordered a new differential for it. Expect to take a week to arrive. Only took 3 days for them to decide...

haute_heir
09-23-05, 05:51 PM
I think mine is well on it's way to being shot... Have about 4000 miles on my 05' CTS (not V), it started humming at about 2000 miles, now it hums and almost grinds, depending on my speed. I'm just waiting for snowfall so I can take my 20's off and put the factory rims back on before I take it in to the shop...I have a strange feeling they will immediately blame it on the 20's otherwise....cheap bastards!!lol W'ell see in a few weeks if it needs replacing...my best guess is YES

Z71
09-24-05, 03:53 PM
My 05 CTS (noV) has been at the dealer since Weds for the differential noise. Had some whine buy a terrible howl noise at 20-30 mph that was unbearable. Took over a month (he was on vacation for a month) to get the approval from the zone rep to fix it. According to what I was told by by service consultant Cadi has been getting rear end back with no apparent problems. Dealers too quick to change out the axle instead of finding a problem. So my dealer was told to tear it apart before ordering parts. He called me Fri to say they found problems and ordered parts. I said, just replace the whole thing, he said we are. I did not ask any more than that, I have a rental car (05 Buick LaCrosse). Says they expect to be able to deliver it back to my this Weds at the latest.

I guess one ride around the block with the Zone rep driving was all it took to get approval to replace. BUT they are insisting on a strict breakin procedure. For the first 500 miles you cannot drive at any one speed for longer than 10 minutes (how can you do that when you live 100 miles away from dealer), no pulling trailers or jack rabbitt take-off's.


My dealer has been good to me so far. No crap at all. Nice people who seem to care for the customer. I highly recommend THEM (http://www.publicservicegarage.com/)

RobertCTS
09-26-05, 09:00 AM
I saw this post over in the CTS Forum by Pietro:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/images/avatars/8_12_16.JPG (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/member.php?u=14251)pietroraimondi (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/member.php?u=14251) http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_456239", true);
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Re: 2005 rear end noise 3.6
Forum Folks:

There are some "serious problems" with the engineering of the rear-end differential in the CTS-V Gertag under launch. And it is a very serious problem of deflection causing cracking of the outer housing. It is extremely prevalent in the CTS-V under launch and not so much with the 3.6, but it is still there and intermittent.

Cadillac has issued a private TSB (dealer technical service bulletin) to their dealers, but no recall. There have been several of us that have had discussions with Cadillac corporate, engineering as well as Gertag and the "bull-sh*t" corporate response from Cadillac marketing is enough to make you throw up.

There is an aftermarket engineered fix that will stabilize the differential cradle that is causing this failure. When time permits, I will post some alternatives that are available. The bottom line is that Cadillac has posted or advertised that the CTSV will go from 0-60 in under 5. What they did not disclose is that your Gertag differential will crack in half literally under launch if in fact you drive the vehicle in the manner in which they advertised or warranted its level of performance.

The differential housing in the 3.6 is just "strong enough" to support about 300 HP and not a single HP more under a hard launch. The bottom line is that if you push the HP envelope on the 3.6 and hard launch this vehicle; you can kiss that differential casing "good-bye".

Those are unshakable facts directly from Gertag! I will post more technical data later that supports Gertags claims that GM "underengineered" the CTS rear end differential and a pinion and cradle support is the only fix to stabilize the deflection that is causing the rear-end failure.

regards - Pete Raimondi
Cadillac MotorSports, Ltd.

CVP33
09-26-05, 07:49 PM
What a surprise. :D

ahahnu
09-27-05, 02:53 PM
what happened? did this one lose its glue and fell in with the rest of the posts?

urbanski
09-27-05, 03:21 PM
the link to this thread is up in the hot topic sticky

NIK
09-27-05, 04:34 PM
Be very careful, you may have just jinxed yourself. People should not have to worry about how they are driving the ~ $50k car once they buy it. I agree with CTSV05 that his rear end would have failed a long time ago without his support.

The rear end in this car is not designed to withstand the torque of the LS6 and that is the problem. It also doesn't have enough fluid to keep it cool enough.

The people that didn't have a problem yet are either a)very lucky, b)shouldn't be driving a 400hp performance car in the first place, c) don't know this site exists so they think their rear dif noise is "normal" or d) are deaf.

Regardless, after 7400 miles I wouldn't feel like it will last forever.

I agree that I shouldn't have to worry about how I drive the car, but the question came up about any who have not had a problem (yet). I know two other "V" owners and none have had a problem (yet). I also know when my rear end is noisy and when it's not - I've owned more "muscle cars" than some of you are old. And, by the way, I'm not deaf. That said, it's pretty obvious that the "V" has differential issues and I, for one, will press to have mine replaced with the upgraded '06 model so that I don't have to worry about it down the road. All in all, drive it like you bought it (or stole it) - it's still a fantastic machine!

Skeeter
10-11-05, 08:11 PM
No word on when the new unit is due? Dang, we are almost in '06, people!

I'll keep an ear peeled for whine. 600 miles of pretty well-behaved break-in and so far so good :)

Skeeter