: Negotiation Help



McCaughey01
02-21-09, 11:38 PM
Well I am planning on going Monday to test drive an 05 White STS 1SG RWD with 28,000 miles. It has a clean car fax report with 2 owners no wrecks. I went and looked at the car when the dealership was closed and it is almost perfect cosmetically except for a black scratch on the strip under the drivers side door (it might come off with some elbow grease), one of the wheels has been curb checked :banghead: and it has 2 new back tires but the 2 front look original would have to get new before winter. But other than that the car is perfect from the outside. They are asking $21,995. Also it only has a 30 days 1,000 mile warranty but I would buy an extended warranty within a month
What would be a good price to start Negotiating? What would be the most you would spend? Thanks!

McCaughey01
02-22-09, 12:42 AM
oh and its been on the lot since 1/6/09

Benjamin Simon
02-22-09, 02:28 AM
It is really hard to say what a good price is anymore these days. The car market is very weird right now.
My friend who as access to the manheim auction to me my STS was worth about $16K.
I have the 1SG package, with ACC, and 49K on the clock.
One question I would ask, is when was the in service date. My STS still has 14 months since it did not first sell until May of 2006. Yes, it is still a 2005, merely a late sell.
Dont assume the car is not under factory warranty. I just purchased a Benz (the old lady insisted) and the selling dealer was not sure.

BaTu
02-22-09, 11:44 AM
22K is way too much! That's what I paid, a year ago for an AWD w/21,000mi and the 1SG pkg + HUD/ACC (and the economy was in Much better shape)

It just can't be worth more than 18K and THEY know it!

It's a buyer market, You're in charge, walk away - they'll chase ya ;)

Do not, under Any circumstances, test drive the car before you negotiate a price (you'll fall in love with it and never have the strength to play hardball ;) )

c5 rv
02-22-09, 01:29 PM
Do not, under Any circumstances, test drive the car before you negotiate a price (you'll fall in love with it and never have the strength to play hardball ;) )


Test drive first - but have enough self control to keep the silly grin off your face. Be ready to walk with no regrets.

BaTu
02-22-09, 02:10 PM
I'm not saying you're Never going to test drive it but, if it's under warranty, what do you need to find out in a "drive"?

IF YOU DRIVE IT, you're going to start to imagine it's yours, in your driveway, show your friends & family, you ARE going to fall in love and, unless you without emotions (like Spock ;) ) you are NOT going to be able to negotiate in the same way Ever again!

The deal is made contingent on the car being checked-out, on a lift and with a drive, AFTER you've agreed on a price. Also what's important here is that you don't give them a reason to feel you might be a "tire-kicker" just wasting their time. You go with your check book saying your ready to buy Today.

joee5
02-22-09, 02:16 PM
I say offre them 15K and work from there. If you like it alot, you'll know how much your willing to pay for her. Choose wisely. God Bless,Joe

c5 rv
02-22-09, 05:29 PM
I'm not saying you're Never going to test drive it but, if it's under warranty, what do you need to find out in a "drive"?


Identical looking used cars have wide variation in handling, engine performance, smell, seat comfort, etc. Many of these factors can't (or won't) be corrected under warranty because they may be considered "normal". If a car isn't right (in your opinion) to start with, it may never be right.

BaTu
02-22-09, 06:54 PM
Identical looking used cars have wide variation in handling, engine performance, smell, seat comfort, etc. Many of these factors can't (or won't) be corrected under warranty because they may be considered "normal". If a car isn't right (in your opinion) to start with, it may never be right.

Well, frankly, that just sounds silly to me.... OK so maybe smell (ya wouldn't want to end-up with Jerry's BMWs "Funk") so open the door, take a sniff ;)

Other than that, a low miles '05 STS I sincerely doubt has this "wide variation" between individual cars.....

If the car's at a dealership, they will go through a warrantied car and fix All mechanical and cosmetic issues they find Before they let anyone drive it (why wouldn't they? They get paid to do warranty work)

I ask the salesman "what's wrong with it? what's it need?" They always say "Nothing... it's 100%". So then I say if the car's all you say it is let's go on that assumption and make a deal and I'm just going to verify with a drive once we've come to an agreement..... ;)

I've bought A LOT of cars & trucks this way and Never found something that surprised me with a low miles, late model, car still under the original warranty.

I'm Not saying don't look it over. Spend a 1/2hr going over it bumper to bumper just Don't Drive IT!

I'm telling you, every car salesman WANTS to put you behind the wheel because that alone does 50% of their job for them :D

luciano23
02-22-09, 07:03 PM
i agree the price is kind of high. in my area theres tons of 05s with low miles for 15-16k ... no need to spend 22k

STS42006
02-22-09, 07:17 PM
the car is worth no more then 16000

c5 rv
02-22-09, 07:26 PM
Well, frankly, that just sounds silly to me.... OK so maybe smell (ya wouldn't want to end-up with Jerry's BMWs "Funk") so open the door, take a sniff ;)

Other than that, a low miles '05 STS I sincerely doubt has this "wide variation" between individual cars.....

If the car's at a dealership, they will go through a warrantied car and fix All mechanical and cosmetic issues they find Before they let anyone drive it (why wouldn't they? They get paid to do warranty work)


I guess we agree to disagree. But, I would be ESPECIALLY wary of problems with a first year STS (or any first year car). As for the dealer fixing all mechanical and cosmetic issues, I used to think that, too. But, I drove some CPO Cadillac offerings that were just plain awful with alignment problems, no engine power, broken interior items, etc. When I mentioned these items on the cars to the salesmen, they had the usual surprised look.

If someone has a problem controlling their emotions when they test drive a car, they need to drive way more cars. When I was looking for my vette, I loved the first one I drove. After driving about 20 different cars over a few months, I really knew what felt right. When I drove THE car that was priced fairly, I had no doubts paying the asking price.

Lifer
02-23-09, 10:19 AM
the car is worth no more then 16000

Mind-boggling!!!!! Here is a $60,000 + vehicle less than 5 years old worth less than 1/3rd of it's retail value. When new, the dealer paid the factory around $54K for this car (the factory accountants then taking this money and paying pensions and health benefits for retirees, some bonuses for the mahogany row mismanagement guys, and a few bucks for actual manufacturing costs and burden). When sold to the customer, if a true fool was not buying (sticker), it probably sold for around $55-56K less trade. But to see such a depreciation - WOW! Wait another year and you may be able to get two for this price. However, wait 15 years and it will be worth about the same $16,000 as a collector's ride. Interesting...

BaTu
02-23-09, 10:55 AM
I figure my car depreciated $40,000 in 20,000mi. That's $2.00/mi in depreciation alone! (forget taxes, insurance, gas, maintenance, & interest)

That's why I buy off-lease, low miles for, what really IS, the Most cars you'll Ever buy for the Buck :)

Superjim
02-23-09, 12:06 PM
Well, frankly, that just sounds silly to me.... OK so maybe smell (ya wouldn't want to end-up with Jerry's BMWs "Funk") so open the door, take a sniff ;)

Other than that, a low miles '05 STS I sincerely doubt has this "wide variation" between individual cars.....

If the car's at a dealership, they will go through a warrantied car and fix All mechanical and cosmetic issues they find Before they let anyone drive it (why wouldn't they? They get paid to do warranty work)



Do what ever you want to.
It is your money and you are the one buying the car.

But like c5 rv said....You may think they are all identical...they are not.
I know first hand.

If you want to go to the trouble of searching old threads...back around January 2007...
I have several threads here and on the other Cadillac forum. about the second BRAND NEW 2006 DTS Performance Sedan I bought.
It was SO DIFFERENT from my OTHER 2006 DTS Performance Sedan..it was like night and day.

It was at the dealer NUMEROUS TIMES to try to make it more like the first one.
Didn't have too much luck with that approach.

It drove different...it ran different...it handled different at high speed. Almost everything about the driving and performance of it was different.
If I had never driven the FIRST one...I would not have known the difference and probably been well satisfied with the second one...but I had driven one that was ALL CORRECT..and there was a huge difference between the two, SUPPOSEDLY IDENTICAL cars.

The point I am trying to make...they can be a HUGE DIFFERENCE in two cars that are supposedly just alike. Not necessarily WILL BE different... but CAN BE different.

Most of them WILL be just alike..but there is always some that are BETTER than average and some that are WORSE than average.

I had one that was better than average...the second one was just average.
I have spent untold hours talking to people and doing research, along with spending a fair amount of change, but I now have one that is again a little better than average.

My next one will be driven EXTENSIVELY before purchase.
Just my opinion.

Texas Jim

BaTu
02-23-09, 02:07 PM
Wow - sounds like you got a LEMON all right ;)

But, if I read your post correctly, you're now going to drive the next, Brand New Car you purchase, "EXTENSIVELY" before you buy it??

THAT might be hard to do....

And you also say "If I had never driven the FIRST one...I would not have known the difference and probably been well satisfied with the second one"

So, a test drive that someone might have taken in this new car wouldn't have done Them any good unless they were Throughly Familiar with the model?

PLUS, you're sure had you driven it that day,,,,, you would have KNOWN all the trouble that you were going to have with this car?

I don't know......

I've either just been Lucky, or I'm a "realist" :D

I really don't subscribe to all this "Feng Shui " feeling in inanimate objects and that once you find your "soul mate" automobile you'll know it by driving it. Like c5 rv ;)

Obviously there good cars and bad cars, I guess I still feel that in a 20K mile car, with a good look-over, the chances are pretty slim that you'll get stuck by not driving it right away though......

MARKVIII
02-23-09, 04:08 PM
Brand new '09 sts vehicles are going for $28,990 all day long here in south florida..no wonder there is no resale value!!!!

c5 rv
02-23-09, 08:31 PM
I really don't subscribe to all this "Feng Shui " feeling in inanimate objects and that once you find your "soul mate" automobile you'll know it by driving it. Like c5 rv ;)


LOL I drive about 30K miles a year - of course my cars are my soul mates. I currently have two daily drivers plus an Allante for summer weekends. I guess that makes me a polygamist. Don't tell my wife. :shhh:

Superjim
02-23-09, 10:07 PM
Wow - sounds like you got a LEMON all right ;)

But, if I read your post correctly, you're now going to drive the next, Brand New Car you purchase, "EXTENSIVELY" before you buy it??

THAT might be hard to do....

And you also say "If I had never driven the FIRST one...I would not have known the difference and probably been well satisfied with the second one"

So, a test drive that someone might have taken in this new car wouldn't have done Them any good unless they were Throughly Familiar with the model?

PLUS, you're sure had you driven it that day,,,,, you would have KNOWN all the trouble that you were going to have with this car?

I don't know......

I've either just been Lucky, or I'm a "realist" :D

I really don't subscribe to all this "Feng Shui " feeling in inanimate objects and that once you find your "soul mate" automobile you'll know it by driving it. Like c5 rv ;)

Obviously there good cars and bad cars, I guess I still feel that in a 20K mile car, with a good look-over, the chances are pretty slim that you'll get stuck by not driving it right away though......


No the second one was not a lemon.
I now have 53,000 miles on it and love it.
It in a great automobile.
There never was anything mechanically wrong with it.

It just was not like the first one in DRIVING FEEL.
It had too much of a LAID BACK personality...unlike the first one that had an eager...LETS GO personality.
It now is like the first one...it likes to GO.

I drive about 65,000 to 70,000 miles a year in my different vehicles.

As to taking one for an EXTEBSIVE TEST DRIVE...I have never had a problem doing that.
I have did it several times.
I have been buying Cadillacs for over 30 years.
Two of the four big Cadillac dealers around here know me.
I usually know within 15 minutes on the highway...by myself...if this is a car I would be interested in owning.
If it is, I continue driving.
If not..I take it right back to the dealer.

It doesn't look like I can explain it on this forum...so that you understand that some people can tell/feel, the differences that MAY exist between cars that are supposedly JUST ALIKE.

I know that most people just drive a car...as long as it starts and runs...they are happy. They could drive 50 cars of the same make, model and trim level, and not be able to quantify ANY DIFFERENCE in any of them.

But there are also some people that can drive the same 50 cars and tell you some differences between almost every one of them.

Maybe you have been real lucky or maybe you just use a car as an appliance.
I don't know and at this point, it is doing neither one of us any good to continue this dialogue.

Sorry to have bothered you.

I am pretty that c5 rv understands what I am talking about. :cool2: :cool2:

Texas Jim

Regulator
02-23-09, 10:41 PM
This thread is really concerning....We are talking about cars here....right?
Personalities? differences between 50 different cars?...Using a car as an appliance?


Come on guys, it's only an STS!...

McCaughey01
02-23-09, 11:02 PM
Well guys I talked them down to 19,000 and will be buying it. Yeah I may have paid a little much but I'm happy with it. Although I will always second guess myself saying I could have got them lower (o well, not a very good negotiator only talked them down 3,000 plus I'm only 24 and this was my first car purchase by myself.) This was a good learning experience. Plus I got sick of driving 300 miles to look at a car that the dealer told me was in excellent condition only to find out its got dings and scratches everywhere. This car was only 45 miles from home and This was the best shape one I have seen out of the 6 that I looked at. The car should look brand new once I get it because every little thing I could see that bothered me I am having them fix. I will be picking it up next weekend hopefully. Now my question is they are offering me a warranty for 72 months 100,000 miles for $2650. Should I go for that warranty?

Superjim
02-23-09, 11:47 PM
Now my question is they are offering me a warranty for 72 months 100,000 miles for $2650. Should I go for that warranty?


Is the warranty thru GMPP?

McCaughey01
02-24-09, 12:02 AM
No its not

Superjim
02-24-09, 12:32 AM
No its not


If you know the warranty companys name...check online for reviews and check with the BBB for open complaints that they won't resolve.

The dealer is gonna tell you it is the greatest thing since sliced bread...but... DO A LOT OF CHECKING on the warranty before buying it.

Some of them are just about worthless.

Texas Jim

jimbohenson
02-24-09, 12:46 AM
Three letters C P O!

c5 rv
02-24-09, 08:03 PM
I am pretty that c5 rv understands what I am talking about. :cool2: :cool2:

Texas Jim

Huh, did you say something? I was out in the garage fretting that I don't have any more 5W30 Mobil 1 on the shelf to top off my SRX. I only have 5W20 for the MKZ. How did I let that happen?

Superjim
02-25-09, 12:30 AM
Huh, did you say something? I was out in the garage fretting that I don't have any more 5W30 Mobil 1 on the shelf to top off my SRX. I only have 5W20 for the MKZ. How did I let that happen?


I don't know HOW you managed to let THAT happen. :hmm:
If the MKZ is full...use it to go get some 5W30 for the SRX before she gets mad at you.

And don't EVER let that happen again. :stirpot:

Texas Jim

McCaughey01
02-25-09, 04:25 PM
Well here is an update guys. I got a call back from the dealer saying they could only go 66 months on an 05 so I used this as leverage to talk them down even more. I got them down to 18,450.00 and they are throwing in a 6 year 100,000 mile warranty with Nav/DVD Unit Coverage with a $0 deductible. I am very happy with this deal.:highfive:

Superjim
02-25-09, 06:04 PM
Well here is an update guys. I got a call back from the dealer saying they could only go 66 months on an 05 so I used this as leverage to talk them down even more. I got them down to 18,450.00 and they are throwing in a 6 year 100,000 mile warranty with Nav/DVD Unit Coverage with a $0 deductible. I am very happy with this deal.:highfive:



Glad you are happy with it.
Sounds pretty good.

Texas Jim

luciano23
02-25-09, 09:16 PM
Well here is an update guys. I got a call back from the dealer saying they could only go 66 months on an 05 so I used this as leverage to talk them down even more. I got them down to 18,450.00 and they are throwing in a 6 year 100,000 mile warranty with Nav/DVD Unit Coverage with a $0 deductible. I am very happy with this deal.:highfive:
sounds much better. good luck with it.