: Northstar block #'s info needed on a used engine.



mrgot2hav
02-20-09, 02:46 PM
Just picked up a used overheating engine for $50!! with trans. block #6TU265885 and 12554367. I was "told" it was pulled from VIN 1G6ET1293VU611111. Can anyone give me any info on the vin and also if it's an 300hp or 275hp? I'm not sure but from the numbers seem like the engine number don't match the vin????

Submariner409
02-20-09, 04:39 PM
The number stamped in the block pad just under the front of the right cam cover/cylinder head, at the end of the right axle housing is a "VIN Derivative" of the original car assembly. A dealer can get the engine type from that.

Those numbers don't match, BTW......

CaptainFishpond
02-20-09, 04:44 PM
Yeah, call the dealer.

AJxtcman
02-20-09, 05:36 PM
Just picked up a used overheating engine for $50!! with trans. block #6TU265885 and 12554367. I was "told" it was pulled from VIN 1G6ET1293VU611111. Can anyone give me any info on the vin and also if it's an 300hp or 275hp? I'm not sure but from the numbers seem like the engine number don't match the vin????

that is not a 275 hp engine and it did not come out of a car with that VIN.

mrgot2hav
02-21-09, 01:45 AM
Thanx for the info that's what I figured from what i've read here. My engine loss oil psi last month and ran a few blocks afterwards now have a knock. All after a complete reseal and timesert job last summer. (probably crank bolt TQ or lack of) Not knowing the history of this used engine I planned on just maybe using it's crank with new bearings and oil pump if the leakdown and compression test checks out okay on my current engine.

AJxtcman
02-21-09, 07:43 AM
Thanx for the info that's what I figured from what i've read here. My engine loss oil psi last month and ran a few blocks afterwards now have a knock. All after a complete reseal and timesert job last summer. (probably crank bolt TQ or lack of) Not knowing the history of this used engine I planned on just maybe using it's crank with new bearings and oil pump if the leakdown and compression test checks out okay on my current engine.

If it knocked the Rod is junk. I think SUB will agree on that.
You are basically beating on the center of the rod with a ball peen hammer when you hear a rod knock.

I wish I could draw you a picture.

The rod bearing displaces the load from the rod over the contact area of the crank EVENLY over the upper bearing.
When the is worn out or has failed the rod is contacting bearing in small area lets just say a 1/2" wide spot. Now the piston fires the rod down on that spot. The bearing is a soft material, so it pushes out and the gap gets bigger and the rod becomes egg shaped. An egg shaped rod won't hold a bearing because it isn't displacing the load across the surface area.

Now for the Engine Failure :hmm:

Use of "Surface Conditioning Disks" When Cleaning Engine Gasket Sealing Surfaces and/or Reused Engine Parts

The Use of "Surface Conditioning Disks"
Notice: Do not use abrasive pad/bristle devices to clean the gasket surfaces of engine components. Abrasive pads should not be used for the following reasons:


Abrasive pads will produce fine grit that the oil filter will not be able to remove from the oil. THIS GRIT IS ABRASIVE AND HAS BEEN KNOWN TO CAUSE INTERNAL ENGINE DAMAGE. Abrasive pads can easily remove enough material to round cylinder head surfaces. This has been known to affect the gasket's ability to seal, especially in the narrow seal areas between the combustion chambers and coolant jackets.

Abrasive pads can also remove enough metal to affect cylinder head, block, oil pan rail, and intake manifold runner flatness, which can cause coolant and oil leaks. It takes about 15 seconds to remove 0.203 mm (0.008 in) of metal with an abrasive pad.


When cleaning engine gasket sealing surfaces and/or cleaning parts from an engine that are to be reused, surface conditioning disks (typically constructed of woven fiber or molded bristles) that contain abrasives, such as a high amount of Aluminum Oxide, should NOT be used.

The use of such surface conditioning disks dislodges Aluminum Oxide (from the disk) and metal particles, which can lead to premature engine bearing failure.

The presence of Aluminum Oxide in engine oil has been shown to cause premature engine bearing failure. In some cases, this failure occurs in as little as 2,200 km (1,000 mi) or less after the repair has been made.

Surface conditioning disks may grind the component material and imbed it into the disk. This can result when more aggressive grinding of the gasket surface takes place.

Recommended Cleaning Procedure


General Motors recommends the use of a razor blade or plastic gasket scraper to clean the gasket surface on engine components that are to be reused. When cleaning gasket surfaces, please note the following:


When using a razor blade type gasket scraper, use a new razor blade for each cylinder head and corresponding block surface. Hold the blade as parallel to the gasket surface as possible. This will ensure that the razor blade does not gouge or scratch the gasket surfaces.

Do not gouge or scrape the combustion chamber surfaces.

Do not gouge or scratch any engine-sealing surface during the cleaning process.

Important: The appearance of the gasket surface is not critical -- the feel is. There will be indentations from the gasket left in the cylinder head after all the gasket material is removed. The new gasket will fill these small indentations when it is installed.

Submariner409
02-21-09, 11:31 AM
AJ...........The ol' ScotchBrite pad way to ruin a new engine job. Those aluminum oxide particles in the pads will literally scratch glass.

That article needs to be included in the Cadillac Technical Archive ^^^ up in the black bar.

AJxtcman
02-21-09, 01:58 PM
AJ...........The ol' ScotchBrite pad way to ruin a new engine job. Those aluminum oxide particles in the pads will literally scratch glass.

That article needs to be included in the Cadillac Technical Archive ^^^ up in the black bar.

They are included in one of the many TSB's or Service Information articles.

I will use a Scotch-Brite pad from time to time, but I have a Parts Spray Cabinet. Now if you don't keep your Aquatic Parts Cleaner solution clean you aren't doing your self any favors either. I think you can find an article or two on transmission rebuilding and seal failure cause by dirty Aquatic Solution :histeric:

So what do you use to scrub the dirt from the parts washer out of the part you just cleaned :histeric:

Submariner409
02-21-09, 02:23 PM
I hate to admit to being a polluter, but without fail I clean parts in either Mean Green or some water-soluble detergent, rinse, blow them dry, and do a second rinse with either gasoline or Varsol. Some parts have so many nooks and crannies that I bake them at 200 in the oven to dry the water before the gasoline rinse. Karen just loves it when she comes home and the kitchen smells like a hot engine.

Ranger
02-21-09, 04:07 PM
AJ...........The ol' ScotchBrite pad way to ruin a new engine job. Those aluminum oxide particles in the pads will literally scratch glass.

That article needs to be included in the Cadillac Technical Archive ^^^ up in the black bar.
If I'm not mistaken the Guru put it in the Tech Tips section. Probably the last page as it was one of the first tips posted I think.

Submariner409
02-21-09, 04:28 PM
Yep...Technical Tips, first page, third post: "Scotchbrite.......NEVER"

Amazing what's buried in CF :rolleyes:

dkozloski
02-21-09, 06:12 PM
I hate to admit to being a polluter, but without fail I clean parts in either Mean Green or some water-soluble detergent, rinse, blow them dry, and do a second rinse with either gasoline or Varsol. Some parts have so many nooks and crannies that I bake them at 200 in the oven to dry the water before the gasoline rinse. Karen just loves it when she comes home and the kitchen smells like a hot engine.
I do it the other way around:
1. Clean the parts in Turco Transpo.
2. Rinse in hot water.
3. Spray with Stoddard solvent that includes an emulsifier.
4. Rinse with hot water.
5. Blow dry with compressed air.

mrgot2hav
02-22-09, 12:27 AM
Hey thanks, I understand the rod failure when bearings fail. I have bore gauges everything in the rotating assy. will be measured, plastigaged and replaced if nec. Scotch brite I have know about also, though lots of people still use them. At our dealership they were a standard tool box cleaning tool up to the early 90's. ha ha ha. I have'nt taken the engine apart yet, will wait til it get warmer out, MI. weather sucks.
ANything I find in question will get replace. Believe me this will be last time I pull this engine. I can't fault nothing but me I think I got in a hurry and most likely 4got to final torque the crank bolt because I can't remember if I did or not.

Submariner409
02-22-09, 10:41 AM
I'm not sure that GM wants you to use Plastigage in a Northstar. There's something else................Dkoz, Help !!!!!!

......maybe for an Olds 455 crank, but I read somewhere GM wants another method for a N*.

edit........ From the 2002 Factory Service Manual P6-334-9 :"Crankshaft machining is not allowed and there are no undersized service bearings......." You mike everything up, calculate the wear (if any - these lower ends are bulletproof) and if necessary, install a new crankshaft. No options. Same for pistons: no oversize units available.

dkozloski
02-22-09, 05:16 PM
I'm not sure that GM wants you to use Plastigage in a Northstar. There's something else................Dkoz, Help !!!!!!

......maybe for an Olds 455 crank, but I read somewhere GM wants another method for a N*.

edit........ From the 2002 Factory Service Manual P6-334-9 :"Crankshaft machining is not allowed and there are no undersized service bearings......." You mike everything up, calculate the wear (if any - these lower ends are bulletproof) and if necessary, install a new crankshaft. No options. Same for pistons: no oversize units available.
If I remember correctly, Al Cline said that the crankshaft had rolled radii on the journals and nobody in the world was setup to redo it after a regrind. I rarely used plastigage in the overhaul shop. I measured everything. I always felt that plastigage was a jackleg tool for mechanics that didn't own micrometers. I've still got about $20,000 invested in measuring tools of all kinds that I've bought over the last 60 or so years. Northstar connecting rods cannot be reconditioned because they have "cracked" caps that can't be shaved and rebored on the big end.

Raze
02-25-09, 01:11 PM
Wait a minute...

I want to make a point here. (Mrgot2hav please disregard this and I don't want to get off topic).

I asked a question regarding used engines yesterday w/vins using someone else's 'Carfax' for a non-cadillac in the lounge and got run out of town, including by you dkozloski...

See thread here: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forums-lounge-member-introductions/162404-i-need-carfax.html

My thread was locked and tossed. I understand the potential for copyright/legal action against the forum since I used the word 'Carfax' but seriously, since publicly available data regarding VINs and cars comes from said reporting agency, who get it from DMV, Dealers, and Police Departments who won't share the information publicly, guess what, that's pretty much what he was asking. All anyone has to say if it's brought up is "perhaps you should ask if anyone knows anything about said VIN"...

I hope you're taking notes Urbanski...