: Bad news Very Bad news



AJxtcman
02-13-09, 09:27 PM
This sucks :shhh:

I am not sure if I should post this. :confused:

Let me know if you want to know the very bad news that may really bring every one down. :eek:

jeffrsmith
02-13-09, 09:45 PM
I'll bite, what is the bad news?

AJxtcman
02-13-09, 10:00 PM
what would be the very worse news for a Northstar guy? :crying2:
This one is the most F'd up I have ever seen :bonkers:

I am very sorry guys. :nono:

codewize
02-13-09, 10:16 PM
HG Problerm? What, tell us?

Destroyer
02-13-09, 10:53 PM
what would be the very worse news for a Northstar guy? :crying2:

You would stop working on them and have the whole "tuning" thread deleted? :D

iowasevillests
02-14-09, 12:07 AM
I'll bite.....I'm guessing screwed up HG.......

thebigjimsho
02-14-09, 12:49 AM
hmm...

[NortHStaR]
02-14-09, 01:17 AM
The suspence is KILLING me AJ :hide:

CaptainFishpond
02-14-09, 01:27 AM
Did the STS motor suffer hg failure?

ejguillot
02-14-09, 01:41 AM
Did you have a problem that cost you all of the PCM programming work you've done in the last 2 years?

mikeceli
02-14-09, 02:43 AM
Spit it out!

urbanski
02-14-09, 07:39 AM
needs more content.

AJxtcman
02-14-09, 09:29 AM
HG Problerm? What, tell us?

Sorry everyone I was so depressed I went to bed early last night. :nono:

Codewize knew. Head Gasket out on a 2004 and it is a nightmare for me.

The block is the issue and I don't see any real improvement over the 99 and prior.

Yes GM did switch, improve, redesign the block alloy for the 2000 model year, but I don't know what they actually did.

I can't really say this block is powered YET, but it sure has a lot of voids.

I will have more info today. I am going in to take better pictures on my day to work on my house. :nono:


Bad news Guy's
Very Bad News.

The LS1 (11mm X 2.0MM) type Head bolt won't stay in a block made of JUNK!

I see nothing good coming from this discovery. I can honestly say I don't see this being a one time case.

I have a 2004 Seville with about 80k on it that came in last week for a seat heater Element and something else.

It came back this week with the Seat Heater Module out and a Coolant Leak.
I found a Blister in the Side-Wall of the Surge Tank.
Think about how F'ing hot that coolant had to be that contacted the side-wall of the tank to cause a blister!!!!!
I used our "Block Tester" on it and the fluid turned from Blue to Yellow in just a few pumps. :nono:

I pulled the engine and the Head Gaskets looked OK. Nothing showing a MAJOR Gasket Failure. I saw some bunching of the head gasket and some signs of uneven crimping force/torque.

1 head bolt was just slightly little loose. It was a little rusty, but the hole was Dry. I mean Bone Dry. The Rust was not from COOLANT in my opinion. Maybe a wet bolt when installed.

I inspected the Block and ALL 20 bolt holes were JUNK. WTF:nono:

The threads were pitted and broken in all 20 holes :nono:
My Northstar savior is crumbling before my eyes.
I drilled out the hole that had the slightly loose bolt first and found a good sized void.

The zone rep came out and looked at it. He said lets try a TimeSert. Ok I will play along. I tapped the hole and the void doubled in size. :nono:

Now I had drilled out 2 other hole before the Zone Rep Came out and they both had small holes/voids in the casting. WTF THEY can't figure out how to pour a block you have been doing it since the 60's

I am overly irritated by this.

This is NOT the bad hole. The treads are junk in this one.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/2004/HPIM3926.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/2004/HPIM3927.jpg

BAD HOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/2004/HPIM3931.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/2004/void.jpg

Hey the screen is broke on my camera so it is difficult to take pictures, but I will take some more of the nightmare

The Tony Show
02-14-09, 11:33 AM
I wouldn't get too depressed- I had an LS6 replaced in my CTS-V for block porosity, and the LSx is one of the most bulletproof GM engines ever.

Crap happens with anything mass produced, and a few turds always make it through the line.

chubbyranger
02-14-09, 07:07 PM
Destroyer will be so thrilled he'll pee himself. I'll just keep driving my Timeserted STS.

ryannel2003
02-14-09, 07:45 PM
I'll just keep driving my Timeserted STS.

Ditto.

ejguillot
02-14-09, 08:56 PM
I wouldn't worry too much unless AJ started seeing more of these.

Destroyer
02-14-09, 09:44 PM
Destroyer will be so thrilled he'll pee himself. I'll just keep driving my Timeserted STS.Thats just not right or fair. I tell people NOT to buy these heaps. If I enjoy watching H/G failure so much why would I do that? I've been saying it all along with the '00+ models.............just give it time and they will fail just like the rest. It's a crap motor and not GM's only crap motor. Too many people I know have had H/G and intake gasket failures with GM 3.1 and 3.4 motors. A good friend of mine has a '99 Grand Am GT with a 3.4 and an '03 Rendezvous with a 3.4. Both of them blew head and intake gaskets! Seems like the mechanic next door to my warehouse gets them daily. He flat out refuses to work on N* cars BTW.

Submariner409
02-14-09, 10:13 PM
:heart: .....and a happy St. Valentine's day to you, too !!! :rose:

chubbyranger
02-14-09, 10:23 PM
Thats just not right or fair. I tell people NOT to buy these heaps.

Life is not fair. It cost me $3,967.09 for that post and worth every penny. I dislike Fords because the one I owned screwed me, but I don't tell people not to buy them because they don't listen to me either.

CaptainFishpond
02-14-09, 10:34 PM
I must just be desensitized to the whole HG thing, I see a lot of very expensive high model wrecks at work and HG failure would be a blessing compared to some of the stuff Ive seen. With the HG going, you'll spend some money but if your big Lac gets creamed you have a better chance of walking away. Cobras and Corvettes don't usually fair to well.

ryannel2003
02-14-09, 11:03 PM
I really thinks it depends on how much you like the car. If the HG were to ever fail on my Seville (thank god it's been done already), I probably would get it done just because i love the car and it beats the hell out of a car payment.

dkozloski
02-14-09, 11:52 PM
If we didn't have the HG issue to harp about we'd have nothing to discuss.

Destroyer
02-14-09, 11:58 PM
If we didn't have the HG issue to harp about we'd have nothing to discuss.But we do have the HG issue and that keeps everyone very busy. Hell, the HG issue is what made this site so successful. I fall asleep at the Lincoln forums. :D

Destroyer
02-14-09, 11:59 PM
I really thinks it depends on how much you like the car. If the HG were to ever fail on my Seville (thank god it's been done already), I probably would get it done just because i love the car and it beats the hell out of a car payment.I don't like ANY car enough to make a repair that exceeded the cars worth. Period!

ryannel2003
02-15-09, 12:24 AM
I love mine enough. It would be worth it to me, and thats all that matters. Everything else on my car is in great shape, minus a foggy headlight and lifted dashpad. Why would I start a car payment that I don't love as much as my Seville?

Unfortunately Lincoln's don't have the style nor the following that Cadillac offers, which is why the forum is slow.

CaptainFishpond
02-15-09, 12:55 AM
I agree, cause if the Lincoln 4.6 had a HG problem nobody would care cause nobody drives them.

Destroyer
02-15-09, 12:55 AM
I love mine enough. It would be worth it to me, and thats all that matters. Everything else on my car is in great shape, minus a foggy headlight and lifted dashpad. Why would I start a car payment that I don't love as much as my Seville?

Unfortunately Lincoln's don't have the style nor the following that Cadillac offers, which is why the forum is slow.
The forum is slow because there aren't as many "urgent" reasons like H/G issues to sign up for. Nobody is saying to make "payments", there are plenty more reliable cars than N* one could pay cash for. I bought all my cars cash including my Cadillac's. I've only owned 2 Lincolns, both Mark VIII's. So far my wife's '98 has gone 20k miles without a glitch, except for a battery. But hers only has a total of 36k miles. No wait, one of her air suspension shocks or valves went bad so I installed a coil/strut suspension in it's place for $390 and one of the HID lights was out when I got the car so I spent $190 for an aftermarket set and sold the other stock one for $180. That's it. Far better car than the Deville with very, very similar power and far superior reliability and of course the biggest part of all: RWD. Besides all that, it's much better looking than the Deville it replaced.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/Mark%20VIII/DSC05515.jpg

Destroyer
02-15-09, 12:59 AM
Unfortunately Lincoln's don't have the style nor the following that Cadillac offers, which is why the forum is slow.There hasn't been a Cadillac since the '92 Brougham that has had style either. What is your point?

ryannel2003
02-15-09, 01:04 AM
I'll give it to you, the Mark is a nice car. However, the car doesn't have the style of a '98-'03 Seville or even a similar year Eldorado. IMO of course.

But if you really think about it, what 8-10 year old luxury car doesn't have it's problems? Sure they might not have issues as extreme as HG's, but they still do suffer from other issues. If the Northstar wasn't stuffed under the hood like it is, the HG's probably wouldn't cost more than $1000 to fix.

ryannel2003
02-15-09, 01:06 AM
There hasn't been a Cadillac since the '92 Brougham that has had style either. What is your point?

According to you. I think the Brougham's are overraught and obnoxious.

Destroyer
02-15-09, 01:11 AM
If the Northstar wasn't stuffed under the hood like it is, the HG's probably wouldn't cost more than $1000 to fix.But they are and that is what makes them crap. That and the head lifting off the block. It's much like saying that if my aunt were born a boy she'd be my uncle..........true but not the case.

Destroyer
02-15-09, 01:13 AM
According to you. I think the Brougham's are overraught and obnoxious.Yeah, they are "men's cars" you wouldn't understand. Notice I bought my '98 Deville for the wife...............

ryannel2003
02-15-09, 01:18 AM
All I know is that my Northstar hasn't given me any trouble except for the common crankshaft sensors and my Seville has held up well under my 12k of abuse it has endured so far. Of all the Northstar's that have come in my dealership, we have done maybe 6 or 7 headgasket jobs in the past 2 years. I see plenty of Northstars on a daily basis that still run fine.

ryannel2003
02-15-09, 01:19 AM
Yeah, they are "men's cars" you wouldn't understand. Notice I bought my '98 Deville for the wife...............

Yeah you bought it for the wife, yet you come here and complain about how much they suck? Why don't you get her up here to do your dirty work?

CaptainFishpond
02-15-09, 01:37 AM
I see many more ninth generation DeVilles on the road than I do Lincoln Marks.... I wonder if its because the average consumer noticed how ugly that car was.

I feel like I'm floating away from the topic, was there a topic? Oh wait was it the fact that the N* had a HG problem? Couldn't be.

Destroyer
02-15-09, 01:38 AM
Yeah you bought it for the wife, yet you come here and complain about how much they suck? Why don't you get her up here to do your dirty work?I maintain and repair her cars because they are just as much mine. If she were to start paying for the repairs then fine, she can come here and bitch. She loved the Deville and if it were up to her I'd have had it fixed but I bought her a Lincoln instead (for about what it would have cost to fix the Deville and it had only 16k original miles) and she loves it just as much and I don't have the hassle of fixing it as much.

Destroyer
02-15-09, 01:41 AM
I see many more ninth generation DeVilles on the road than I do Lincoln Marks.... I wonder if its because the average consumer noticed how ugly that car was.


Better looking than your N* car, thats for sure and I don't even know which one you had. 2 door luxury coupes like the Mark and Eldorado were just not in demand and thats why you don't see either made today. You see more Deville's because they were rental cars. I know, I used to rent them all the time.

Destroyer
02-15-09, 01:44 AM
I feel like I'm floating away from the topic, was there a topic? .Yeah, that after almost 20 years in production the Northstar STILL sucks.

ryannel2003
02-15-09, 01:46 AM
Well I'm done going back and forth. Lincoln is the car of the gods, and any Cadillac with a Northstar is destined to become a heap.


So AJ what is going to happen with this '04 Seville?

CaptainFishpond
02-15-09, 02:03 AM
One of the most unreliable cars/motors ever, yet they produced to be rental cars? Doesn't make much sense.

As for looks, nobody could pay me enough to drive a Mark. Oh yeah well I guess they are RWD.... but under 300hp....and they weigh 4,000 lbs.

chubbyranger
02-15-09, 07:16 AM
She loved the Deville and if it were up to her I'd have had it fixed but I bought her a Lincoln instead

Well at least now we're getting to it: he still hears about so we have to put up with :crying2:

AJxtcman
02-15-09, 09:36 AM
In the last 7 months I have seen a few 2000 to 2003 head gasket out. Now these all have been high mile car and they have had prior coolant leaks. I am not saying they were over heated just that they had a coolant leak.

The guy next to me has done 2 of them. I have never seen him not TimeSert a block. I hope you all know how I feel about that.

The first one he did the TimeSerts pulled out. :stirpot: You know what I think. He had to install the BigSerts in that block. I told him that the Drill bit/Ream was junk and that was the reason for the failure. Someone used that drill bit to drill out a bad TimeSert per the instructions on the BigSert kit :histeric:

We got a complete new TimeSert kit (wore out the old one) ant the second job went OK. Like I said He TimeSerts every hole. Technically the first block was junk. It should not have had the BigSerts installed per GM unless they have OK-ed that procedure. If he would have just repair the one that was bad and the 2 holes next to it it probably would have been ok.

That is why I say TimeSerts are just a Band-aid and they just make the bolt bigger.

That is all they do. They aren't some magic piece of metal pressed into the block. They just go around the outside of the bolt to make it bigger.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/HPIM3906.jpg

Destroyer
02-15-09, 09:58 AM
One of the most unreliable cars/motors ever, yet they produced to be rental cars? Doesn't make much sense.

They serve their purpose for the rental fleets which constantly rotate the leased vechicles. It's the poor SOB that buys it afterwards that gets nailed.

Destroyer
02-15-09, 10:01 AM
Well I'm done going back and forth. Lincoln is the car of the godsNo, Lincolns are just as unimpressive as Cadillacs when compared to their foreign counterparts in terms of build quality and materials. They do have more reliable drivetrains though.

AJxtcman
02-15-09, 10:29 AM
Don't get me wrong about GM cars. I love them and despise F,O,R,D's

I think the Northstar and Cadillac are above most other GM cars and engines, but I am disappointed that GM didn't do a better job at fixing the issue and THEY TRIED. I would say an E for Effort.

I don't think the cost of a Head Gasket repair is out of line. Think about the cost to do a Honda or even a BMW. They both seem to have head gasket issues.

I think Dollar for Dollar a head gasket job on a Northstar is right in line.

I am disappointed in what it has done and continues to do to the brands reputation and the resale value.

If you had an honest date that every head gasket would be good for that point forward it would help the resale value.

Ok no body would touch a 97 to 99. 2000 to 2003 You may get lucky as most owners have. If the 04 was the magic ticket Great, but it is not. Look at the pictures of the threads in the holes. Can you see them? That is my point :crying2:

CaptainFishpond
02-15-09, 11:41 AM
An uncle of mine had an 05 STS that had a HG go at 20k, so it aint 05 either.

dkozloski
02-15-09, 03:06 PM
There are two big problems with die cast aluminum blocks that are very difficult to overcome. The first is porosity from air trapped in the mold when the molten aluminum is injected. There are strategically placed vent holes but they can become obstructed by a million and one little bits of debris. The answer is sand casting molds. The second problem is that aluminum is subject to heat treatment issues that badly affect the grain structure and hardness of the metal as it cools in a mold. Worst case is a condition known as intergranular corrosion where the aluminum can be improperly cooled and be in a condition where it almost dissolves in water. The metal quickly becomes the consistance of wet card board and when dried resembles dust. The answer is sand casting molds.
Immediately the question arises; why doesn't Cadillac use a sand casting process? Number one it's much more labor intensive and expensive and number two there are a number of big dogs on the engineering side that have a great deal of their reputations invested in the decision twenty years to go with die casting and they are not yet ready to surrener their pride and admit they were wrong. Let's hope they give in soon.

minnesotamom
02-15-09, 03:09 PM
Good grief..

I don't respect any of your opinions. I think they are all wrong and you should change them.

People sure can get obsessive about stuff. I've driven all sorts of cars...Fords, Chevys, Chryslers (etc etc) and now the Cadillac and it sure seems to me like they've all had their issues. I would never buy another Ford...although I also know people who would never buy anything but a Ford...guess it all comes down to what your personal experience has been. Guess I would never go and berate or blast or harangue people for buying a Ford either. I suspect that the head gaskets are now going on my beloved Deville (which I personally also think has lots of style and class..I still look at it and think..what a beautiful car) as it is leaking coolant and maybe running a little hotter than usual (although not overheating yet). But..she's had a good run, just turned over 180,000 miles...40,000 of them since I took ownership with no horrendous repairs needed except for the fuel pump and most recently the starter. I know I'm willing to take my chances and am watching for another one.

Really, I just don't see the need to come onto a forum devoted to "Cadillac Owners and Enthusiasts" and then just do your best to rile people up...seems kind of like a waste of energy to me.

Destroyer
02-15-09, 10:34 PM
Really, I just don't see the need to come onto a forum devoted to "Cadillac Owners and Enthusiasts" and then just do your best to rile people up...seems kind of like a waste of energy to me.Nobody came onto a Cadillac forum to get people riled up. I for one had 3 Cadillacs during my stay here, 2 good ones and one with a Northstar.........:rolleyes:

C0RSA1R
02-15-09, 10:59 PM
There hasn't been a Cadillac since the '92 Brougham that has had style either. What is your point?:histeric:

ETC's looks blow the Mark outta the water and into the sky - and then it gets shot at by a hunter who mistook it for a turkey.

Every car maker makes cars that look like the Mark - ever seen a late-model Buick Riv or Olds Aurora? Yeah. Ever seen anything that looks like an ETC, aside from another Cadillac? And even then - the ETC has the Seville's front and the DeVille's rear, and then the designers said, "Yeah, we don't need four doors - chuck 'em."

97EldoCoupe
02-15-09, 11:35 PM
Damn straight Corsa1R.

I know that every Northstar can be fixed. Well 58 engines and I haven't had to toss one block yet- except the 3 cracked ones- only God knows what those 3blocks have been through before they cracked.

As I said before- the head gaskets are not that big of an issue. If they blow, get them replaced, and keep driving. As someone else said- it's not worth having car payments to avoid the HG job. Your older Caddy is most likely paid for, or there isn't much owing anymore. Get the HGs replaced and enjoy for a long time to come. Northstars are GREAT engines. It's not that they're always problematic. Other than the HGs/bolt holes and 99's exhaust cam issue, I haven't seen many defects at all.

97EldoCoupe
02-15-09, 11:40 PM
How many Northstars develop valvetrain or bottom end problems? Even if 2004+ have the HG issue, I won't feel any different about Cadillacs- they're still one of the best cars available. It would be nice if GM did cast-in-place iron head bolt hole liners in the block, maybe an iron strip the length of the block with the head bolt holes. But still- these are great engines. If they couldn't be fixed, it would be a whole different ball game. Then I'd be on Destroyer's side. But they can be fixed, and the repairs will last.

blb
02-16-09, 02:07 PM
Wow, have times changed. I remember being on this site seven years ago, and the consensus was then, that there was no headgasket problem with Norhtstars. Just ask the Northstar guru that was on this site that helped develop and design the Northstar.....he said so.....here, have some koolaid.

Now I see that people can actually make a living off of repairing the many Norhtstar headgasket and block issues that continue year after year, despite failed design revision attempts by GM. Now, the consensus is that yes, they have problems but we love them anyway and who cares of you have to drop $4000 on a major repair.

I can hardly believe what I am reading when I see folks justification of the Northstar headgasket issues, because its no worse than some of Fords problems. Really scary. I guess this kind of rationalization is why there are still a few GM and Ford buyers out there.

GM has been gradually loosing market share for decades and this merely showcases one of the many nails in the coffin.

I'd love to see GM actually roll out a design change that is effective, but sadly, the government bailout money will probably run out long before that would happen.

dkozloski
02-16-09, 02:47 PM
Northstar head gasket failures are kind of like bleeding hemorrhoids, not everybody has them but those that do are sure bothered by them and are looking for sympathy and relief.

blb
02-16-09, 02:56 PM
northstar head gasket failures are kind of like bleeding hemorrhoids, not everybody has them but those that do are sure bothered by them and are looking for sympathy and relief.


lol!!!!!

The Tony Show
02-16-09, 03:18 PM
Are those Mustang chromes on your Mark? Damn good looking- I need to get a set for my Black '97.....

orconn
02-16-09, 03:51 PM
There hasn't been a Cadillac since the '92 Brougham that has had style either. What is your point?

So says the man who has stated that the Pantera was the height of automotive styling, Give me a break!

ryannel2003
02-16-09, 04:58 PM
Northstar head gasket failures are kind of like bleeding hemorrhoids, not everybody has them but those that do are sure bothered by them and are looking for sympathy and relief.

I'm putting that in my signature when I get one, just to let you know.

:thumbsup:

minnesotamom
02-16-09, 05:22 PM
Nobody came onto a Cadillac forum to get people riled up. I for one had 3 Cadillacs during my stay here, 2 good ones and one with a Northstar.........:rolleyes:

You're being disingenuous. I come onto this forum to research and to educate myself. I've been very grateful to the people here that are willing to share their knowledge. Sometimes when I'm bored, I also read through some of the other threads and posts..and it does seem to me that pretty universally, you do like to get people riled up....and then when you do get someone riled up, instead of backing down...you jab at them some more.

I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that that's what you like to do..so might just as well take ownership of it.

Destroyer
02-16-09, 06:26 PM
So says the man who has stated that the Pantera was the height of automotive styling, Give me a break!I did? Now that you mention it, I do like the styling of Pantera's but I don't remember ever saying that.

Destroyer
02-16-09, 06:29 PM
You're being disingenuous. I come onto this forum to research and to educate myself. Disingenuous? No. Someone says "hey fellas, I just graduated HS and am checking out a pimp '99 Deville, should I buy it? I work at McDonalds and hope to get some big woofers in it once I save up the cash" What would your answer be? Who is disingenuous?:confused:

Destroyer
02-16-09, 06:33 PM
I don't think the cost of a Head Gasket repair is out of line. Think about the cost to do a Honda or even a BMW. They both seem to have head gasket issues.


But do they both have heads separating from block issues?

Destroyer
02-16-09, 06:36 PM
Wow, have times changed. I remember being on this site seven years ago, and the consensus was then, that there was no headgasket problem with Norhtstars. Just ask the Northstar guru that was on this site that helped develop and design the Northstar.....he said so.....here, have some koolaid.

Now I see that people can actually make a living off of repairing the many Norhtstar headgasket and block issues that continue year after year, despite failed design revision attempts by GM. Now, the consensus is that yes, they have problems but we love them anyway and who cares of you have to drop $4000 on a major repair.

I can hardly believe what I am reading when I see folks justification of the Northstar headgasket issues, because its no worse than some of Fords problems. Really scary. I guess this kind of rationalization is why there are still a few GM and Ford buyers out there.

GM has been gradually loosing market share for decades and this merely showcases one of the many nails in the coffin.

I'd love to see GM actually roll out a design change that is effective, but sadly, the government bailout money will probably run out long before that would happen.As one member eloquently put it:

"It's ok for a N* to give problems, many exotics do. Take a Lamborghini for instance............."


I didn't get it either but somehow he justified it to himself

minnesotamom
02-16-09, 06:45 PM
And now you're being disingenuous about being disingenuous. You know exactly what i am referring to...and it is not advising kids not to be a '99 Deville. You enjoy riling people. ..it's like a hobby. Just as a casual observer, I've seen it from you in a variety of contexts...not just about Northstar engines. And in your quest to rile people up, you've lost your credibility.


Disingenuous? No. Someone says "hey fellas, I just graduated HS and am checking out a pimp '99 Deville, should I buy it? I work at McDonalds and hope to get some big woofers in it once I save up the cash" What would your answer be? Who is disingenuous?:confused:

Destroyer
02-16-09, 08:17 PM
And now you're being disingenuous about being disingenuous. You know exactly what i am referring to...and it is not advising kids not to be a '99 Deville. You enjoy riling people. ..it's like a hobby. Just as a casual observer, I've seen it from you in a variety of contexts...not just about Northstar engines. And in your quest to rile people up, you've lost your credibility.You are being disingenuous about me being disingenuous for saying I was disingenuously being disingenuous about not being disingenuous? . Now whose doing the riling woman?:rant2::)

dkozloski
02-16-09, 08:30 PM
And now you're being disingenuous about being disingenuous. You know exactly what i am referring to...and it is not advising kids not to be a '99 Deville. You enjoy riling people. ..it's like a hobby. Just as a casual observer, I've seen it from you in a variety of contexts...not just about Northstar engines. And in your quest to rile people up, you've lost your credibility.
Now you've gone and done it. You've made Destroyer the center of attention again. We had him tamped down pretty well and now you've got him going again. Some people can't leave well enough alone.

minnesotamom
02-16-09, 08:51 PM
Oops..sorry :bouncy:

Now you've gone and done it. You've made Destroyer the center of attention again. We had him tamped down pretty well and now you've got him going again. Some people can't leave well enough alone.

Destroyer
02-16-09, 10:15 PM
Now you've gone and done it. You've made Destroyer the center of attention again. We had him tamped down pretty well and now you've got him going again. Some people can't leave well enough alone.I'm really not feeling appreciated.:nono::crying2:

dkozloski
02-16-09, 10:18 PM
There, there; poor baby.

CaptainFishpond
02-16-09, 10:19 PM
I knew a kid who had an 2000 something BMW that had a hg fail, and it wasnt a cheap fix.

ryannel2003
02-16-09, 10:24 PM
I believe certain BMW's had a problem with the VANOS system, about a $6000 repair.

Destroyer
02-16-09, 10:36 PM
I knew a kid who had an 2000 something BMW that had a hg fail, and it wasnt a cheap fix.There is no cheap fix on any luxury car in reality. It boils down to what the value of the said vechicle is for me. I would sink $4k to fix a $20k car, I wouldn't be happy about it but I'd do it. I wont sink $4k to fix a car that is worth less, the same or slightly more.

Destroyer
02-16-09, 10:37 PM
How many Northstars develop valvetrain or bottom end problems? Ask anyone with a head gasket issue if they care!

Destroyer
02-16-09, 10:41 PM
Are those Mustang chromes on your Mark? Damn good looking- I need to get a set for my Black '97.....
Yes but drilled to the Mark bolt pattern. 18x9", got them from Ebay.

minnesotamom
02-16-09, 10:42 PM
Is somebody asking you (specifically) to??? I'm confused.

And by the way..when I want to rile somebody up..I'm perfectly willing to take credit for it...and that's the difference between..well, one of many, many differences.

There is no cheap fix on any luxury car in reality. It boils down to what the value of the said vechicle is for me. I would sink $4k to fix a $20k car, I wouldn't be happy about it but I'd do it. I wont sink $4k to fix a car that is worth less, the same or slightly more.

Destroyer
02-16-09, 10:48 PM
Is somebody asking you (specifically) to??? I'm confused. No, is somebody asking you to ask me (specifically) if somebody is asking me? This was the issue when I was faced with fixing my N* . Perhaps the value of the BMW mentioned was higher than the repair it needed.


And by the way..when I want to rile somebody up..I'm perfectly willing to take credit for it...and that's the difference between..well, one of many, many differences.
Who got riled up? What is the difference or inference of difference?:p

AJxtcman
02-16-09, 11:54 PM
Ok guy's I have an old dog. He is my DOG not Jodie's. He is a little grumpy with out me around so I decide to take after him. I have grown a grey beard and got just a tad grumpy over this. LOL ok Very Grumpy over this POS. :thehand:

I will post more pictures and more to the story. Later

The pictures and the story will make you all laugh even you Dee

Destroyer
02-18-09, 10:53 PM
Ok guy's I have an old dog. He is my DOG not Jodie's. He is a little grumpy with out me around so I decide to take after him. I have grown a grey beard and got just a tad grumpy over this. LOL ok Very Grumpy over this POS. :thehand:

?????????????????:confused:

tateos
02-19-09, 01:36 PM
AJ - at some point, you had told us you thought the N* head gasket problem is inherent in the open deck design, right? I thought you were on to something, and I never really believed the problem was solved with longer or larger threads. I am not surprised that the 2000+s are starting to fail - I just don't know why you are.

Ranger
02-19-09, 01:43 PM
Can someone explain "open deck" and if that was the problem, why wouldn't they ALL fail?

jeffrsmith
02-19-09, 06:24 PM
Open Deck - when you pull the head and look at the cylinders although they are joined together they are essentially free standing in the block - most other engines have some casting that connects the cylinders to the rest of the block. Realistically the head/head gasket being torqued down provides the clamping force to "supposedly" seal the top of the cylinders and prevent their movement. All you have to do is look at a failed HG and see how they bunch up - indicating "something" is moving - typically from heating/cooling cycle.

There are a number of things that will stop all of them from failing. Not all aluminum is the same (variations in the quality of the casting as evidenced by the porous nature of some of the head bolt holes), not all head bolts are created equal, not all HGs are created equal, etc. Just about any individual piece in this assembly can cause an issue resulting in HG failure on these.

med
02-19-09, 08:07 PM
Can someone explain "open deck" and if that was the problem, why wouldn't they ALL fail?

I hope these pics explain the difference.:hide:It's a good discussion as usual;)

dkozloski
02-19-09, 08:25 PM
The Northstar is an open deck design because there is no way to die cast a closed deck design. You couldn't remove the part of the die that forms the cooling passages. With a sand casting the sand is broken up and removed through the Welch plug ports. Thus a sand cast closed deck design is possible.

tateos
02-19-09, 09:36 PM
I thought AJ said the RWD N*s are closed deck, no?

Oh, maybe not all RWD? Look here:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/133429-root-cause-head-gasket-failure-fix.html#post1431491

Ranger
02-19-09, 10:30 PM
Thanks Jeff. As I recall the 4.1 was even more opened. One big opening with 4 steel cylinder liners sitting in a rubber seal at the bottom. Then again, they had HG problems as well. Been there, done that.

dkozloski
02-20-09, 02:56 AM
You can be sure that if the block is not open deck it isn't die cast.

mikelawson
02-20-09, 11:03 PM
The head gasket job on the Northstars are a fairly easy repair. Yes it is time consuming, but not that difficult. I have done 15+ 98 and newer sevilles/devilles and have not had a single issue, and I have done most of these with the engine in the car. I've done 2 engine replacements due to cracked engine blocks from people filling their cooling systems with water :tisk: I only use Norms inserts and honestly have to say there's no way the 5/8X11 threads are going to pull from the block. I have yet to see a single failure and I have some cars out there with 50000+ miles on them (he's a traveling salesman 175000 miles total on the car). My total OUT THE DOOR price is right at $2000.00, so the myth that this is a $4000.00 job is bogus. This is a at the dealer price only. Comparing the 3.1 intake gasket is about like the cracked intake on the Ford 4.6. Comparing head gaskets on a Northstar is about like the head gaskets on a Ford 3.8. It's not wise to brag about reliability when Ford has as many defects as any other manufacturer. Try taking your Triton V8 (which is in how many F150's?) in for a tune up,... :cookoo: as most places won't even touch them as they like to blow spark plugs out of the heads. :yup:

Destroyer
02-20-09, 11:38 PM
The head gasket job on the Northstars are a fairly easy repair. Yes it is time consuming, but not that difficult. I have done 15+ 98 and newer sevilles/devilles and have not had a single issue, and I have done most of these with the engine in the car. I've done 2 engine replacements due to cracked engine blocks from people filling their cooling systems with water :tisk: I only use Norms inserts and honestly have to say there's no way the 5/8X11 threads are going to pull from the block. I have yet to see a single failure and I have some cars out there with 50000+ miles on them (he's a traveling salesman 175000 miles total on the car). My total OUT THE DOOR price is right at $2000.00, so the myth that this is a $4000.00 job is bogus. This is a at the dealer price only. Comparing the 3.1 intake gasket is about like the cracked intake on the Ford 4.6. Comparing head gaskets on a Northstar is about like the head gaskets on a Ford 3.8. It's not wise to brag about reliability when Ford has as many defects as any other manufacturer. Try taking your Triton V8 (which is in how many F150's?) in for a tune up,... :cookoo: as most places won't even touch them as they like to blow spark plugs out of the heads. :yup:

Alright, the head gasket on a 3.8 is just that, a simple, straight forward head gasket job. Easily accessible and no need for timeserts. Been there done that and I'm not mechanic yet it took about 5 hours. Total cost was less than $150 (gaskets). Cracked intake on a 4.6? Haven't run into it. Never worked on a Triton V8. Besides, where are you going with this? I don't particularly have a thing for Ford's. I'm a car guy, not a Ford, GM or Chrysler guy. I like everything and would (and have) own products from any make. This makes me unbiased and quite frankly, honest. There are some great Cadillacs out there, just not ones with FWD and especially not ones with FWD AND a N*.

There are others here that do the repair you do for $1500 and use studs. Go ahead and bash Ford's if you need to, hell I'll help, Ford's suck and as Run DMC once put it "I drive a Caddy and you 'fixin a Ford". It's amazing to me that the ones who make a living fixing this junk also praise it the most.............or is that just hook to get people to do the repair? hmmm

97EldoCoupe
02-21-09, 02:47 AM
Destroyer, I'll agree they could have definitely done some things to improve the design of the Northstar- closed deck would be a start, and eliminating the head bolt hole problem would be another.

I praise the engines because everyone else knocks them for a flaw that is repairable. Like I said before, if they were not fixable, I'd be on your side and we would be bashing Northstars together.... But where there's a will there's a way, and there's now a number of repair methods to fix the stripped bolt holes and make these engines last. Every other bit of engineering that went into these engines looks pretty damn good to me.

You are definitely right though, I've done a few Ford 3.8's and they're an easy HG repair job.

97EldoCoupe
02-21-09, 02:49 AM
I have done 15+ 98 and newer sevilles/devilles and have not had a single issue

I hope you're using new bolts as well with those inserts.

Destroyer
02-21-09, 08:26 AM
I praise the engines because everyone else knocks them for a flaw that is repairable. Like I said before, if they were not fixable, I'd be on your side and we would be bashing Northstars together.... But where there's a will there's a way, and there's now a number of repair methods to fix the stripped bolt holes and make these engines last. Every other bit of engineering that went into these engines looks pretty damn good to me.

Jake, its a big flaw and the cost is more than the car. The N* also has excessive oil consumption issues, oil leaks are common as well. The cars were great in concept but failed in execution. These problems are not "luxury", these are costly head aches.............the last thing any luxury car owner wants to deal with. Hell look what kind of problems people have doing simple things like installing aftermarket stereos in the car. These cars are over complicated and under reliable. It is what it is man.

Destroyer
02-21-09, 08:26 AM
I hope you're using new bolts as well with those inserts.Cat fight!:histeric:

AJxtcman
02-21-09, 09:02 AM
This is the BIG void
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/Void2.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/Void3.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/Void1.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/HPIM3959.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/HPIM3957.jpg


I mapped it out on a TimeSert and the is approximately the size of the void.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/MappedArea.jpg

jeffrsmith
02-21-09, 10:46 AM
AJ,

I don't understand the problem here, a little dab of JB Weld should take care of that!

ejguillot
02-21-09, 01:49 PM
AJ,

I don't understand the problem here, a little dab of JB Weld should take care of that!

LOL! :bighead:

AJxtcman
02-21-09, 02:47 PM
First off JB weld won't hold up to the amount of force need to clamp a head down

Second the car is under WARRANTY!

Third GM can't cover a repair with JB weld.

Fourth would you want your car fixed that way?

Fifth all the bolt holes had VOIDS!

Sixth I resealed the lower end and when I torqued the case halve perimeter bolts the sealer I use on the case halve came through the block.

I applied sealer like this
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35424&d=1189569672

When I installed these bolts SEALER came through the casting
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35428&d=1189569672

Just squirted out through pin holes in these areas of that engine. The lube tech couldn't believe his eyes.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/leak.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/leak2.jpg

97EldoCoupe
02-21-09, 05:52 PM
That must be a very porous block. Hopefully you won't run into any more. The casting process was supposed to be improved over the 93-99 engines, and that '04 looks worse than any 93-99 I've worked on so far, from what I can see.

NHRATA01
02-27-09, 09:40 PM
There are two big problems with die cast aluminum blocks that are very difficult to overcome. The first is porosity from air trapped in the mold when the molten aluminum is injected. There are strategically placed vent holes but they can become obstructed by a million and one little bits of debris. The answer is sand casting molds. The second problem is that aluminum is subject to heat treatment issues that badly affect the grain structure and hardness of the metal as it cools in a mold. Worst case is a condition known as intergranular corrosion where the aluminum can be improperly cooled and be in a condition where it almost dissolves in water. The metal quickly becomes the consistance of wet card board and when dried resembles dust. The answer is sand casting molds.
Immediately the question arises; why doesn't Cadillac use a sand casting process? Number one it's much more labor intensive and expensive and number two there are a number of big dogs on the engineering side that have a great deal of their reputations invested in the decision twenty years to go with die casting and they are not yet ready to surrener their pride and admit they were wrong. Let's hope they give in soon.

GM sandcasts all of its LSx blocks, I don't know why they wouldn't do it with the N*.

dkozloski
03-03-09, 02:00 AM
GM sandcasts all of its LSx blocks, I don't know why they wouldn't do it with the N*.
Cadillac committed early on to die-casting. Sand casting is much more expensive and far less accurate. Sand cores shift and there are a multitude of other problems as well. It's all compromises.

NHRATA01
03-04-09, 09:25 PM
Cadillac committed early on to die-casting. Sand casting is much more expensive and far less accurate. Sand cores shift and there are a multitude of other problems as well. It's all compromises.

I don't know about that, dies made to withstand high temp and pressure during molten metal casting are more expensive than sand molds, and have a limited life-cycle. I wouldn't think the cost would be much different, since GM sand casts LSx blocks and manufactures them at a rate of at least 10x Northstar blocks. And actually FWIW, GM began the LSx's by die casting in the earlier years. The first sand-cast blocks were the LS6's in '01, and the rest of the LSx's got a mixture until '03 or '04 when they switched to 100% sand cast.

The success of the LS blocks in high-stress applications compared to the Northstar make me think the flaw is either in the inherent design (i've never really been a fan of open-deck), or the choice of alloy, not the block manufacturing process.

dkozloski
03-05-09, 01:55 AM
I don't know about that, dies made to withstand high temp and pressure during molten metal casting are more expensive than sand molds, and have a limited life-cycle. I wouldn't think the cost would be much different, since GM sand casts LSx blocks and manufactures them at a rate of at least 10x Northstar blocks. And actually FWIW, GM began the LSx's by die casting in the earlier years. The first sand-cast blocks were the LS6's in '01, and the rest of the LSx's got a mixture until '03 or '04 when they switched to 100% sand cast.

The success of the LS blocks in high-stress applications compared to the Northstar make me think the flaw is either in the inherent design (i've never really been a fan of open-deck), or the choice of alloy, not the block manufacturing process.
Die castings are smoother, lighter, thinner, more accurate, require less machine work, and are more uniform. Overall diecastings are cheaper because they require less machine work.

AlBundy
03-09-09, 09:59 PM
I see your at it again(Destroyer).:tisk::histeric:

Submariner409
03-09-09, 10:55 PM
He's sort of like a case of the bugs....No matter how much powder you use, if you dip your wick enough, it comes back.........

Destroyer
03-10-09, 12:10 AM
He's sort of like a case of the bugs....No matter how much powder you use, if you dip your wick enough, it comes back.........LMAO, thanks I just spit up rum and coke all over the monitor and desk!:banghead::D

Raze
03-10-09, 09:56 AM
LMAO, thanks I just spit up rum and coke all over the monitor and desk!:banghead::D

Hope that's all you 'spit up' all over your monitor and desk :rolleyes:

Destroyer
03-11-09, 01:32 AM
Hope that's all you 'spit up' all over your monitor and desk :rolleyes:
Over my head.:eek::alchi:

tateos
03-12-09, 06:54 PM
What was over your head, Destroyer - that wad you shot?

Destroyer
03-15-09, 09:46 PM
What was over your head, Destroyer - that wad you shot?This is getting a little disgusting and personal right about now.

TaVern
03-15-09, 09:52 PM
What was over your head, Destroyer - that wad you shot?

Destroyer shot that wad on your mom. Next time, show some class.

AJxtcman
03-15-09, 11:34 PM
This is getting a little disgusting and personal right about now.

I am a big Northstar guy, but you are correct. This is Disgusting. I am still irate about it. :rant2:

Destroyer
03-16-09, 10:42 PM
I am a big Northstar guy, but you are correct. This is Disgusting. I am still irate about it. :rant2:In the big scheme of things, worst can happen...................unless you own one of these pieces of crap. :lildevil:

AlBundy
03-17-09, 12:58 AM
In the big scheme of things, worst can happen...................unless you own one of these pieces of crap. :lildevil:

Your avatar.....a time bomb.....:tisk:(Destroyer)N* hate all the way to the bone.:yup:

Raze
03-17-09, 08:00 AM
In the big scheme of things, worst can happen...................

You're still here...

Destroyer
03-17-09, 08:32 AM
You're still here...Witty:cool2:

Submariner409
03-17-09, 09:18 AM
.........spammer. No help to anyone, just a generally rotten attitude toward life and people. You must be a very lonely person. I truly pity you.

AJxtcman
03-18-09, 02:49 PM
.........spammer. No help to anyone, just a generally rotten attitude toward life and people. You must be a very lonely person. I truly pity you.

Just think about this a minute.

I think GM started a turn around in product with the 1998 Seville.
Next was the 99 Silverado and then the product list of quality cars just goes on.
I am not saying all the cars that GM redesigned were good, but they started big improvements with the 1998 Seville.

I don't like the 00 Chevy Imp or the 04 Malibu, but the 08 Malibu is an improvement

Your taking comments from a guy that had late 80's Technology Correct?
He has formed his opinion on a car Structure that was released in 1991 for the 1992 model year and was designed long before that.

Now look at a 1988 Lincoln :histeric:
How about a 1992 Lincoln :histeric: :helpless: :histeric:

Until he gets in a newer Caddy nothing will change his mind.

Look at it from a Techs side.
2 Customers come in for service #1 has an 1994 Deville & #2 is a 1997 Craptera.
I am not sure if that would be a very hard decision. I would take my chances with the German Junk.
Every thing you touch on the Deville will break and just about every thing else will break in a week and it will be all my fault. I am talking like stupid stuff. Turn signal bulb in the LR after changing spark plug. Just think about who is driving a 94 Deville and that should explain they think the Turn Signal is related to the spark plugs.

ryannel2003
03-18-09, 04:38 PM
Catera's are the worst. They always need expensive repairs that outweigh the cost of the cars. They are worth even less than the Seville's and Deville's.

Destroyer
03-18-09, 10:06 PM
.........spammer. No help to anyone, just a generally rotten attitude toward life and people. You must be a very lonely person. I truly pity you.I don't like N*'s so I have a rotten attitude toward life and I'm lonely? Keep your pity old man. Geez, I thought I was pretty happy and content before that.:histeric:

Destroyer
03-18-09, 10:09 PM
2 Customers come in for service #1 has an 1994 Deville & #2 is a 1997 Craptera.
I am not sure if that would be a very hard decision. I would take my chances with the German Junk.
Every thing you touch on the Deville will break and just about every thing else will break in a week and it will be all my fault. I am talking like stupid stuff. Turn signal bulb in the LR after changing spark plug. Just think about who is driving a 94 Deville and that should explain they think the Turn Signal is related to the spark plugs.
I drink Rum at night when posting here after a long day, what are you drinking?:D

Submariner409
03-18-09, 11:32 PM
Po' baby...........(Elijah Craig 18, neat, rocks.)

Destroyer
03-19-09, 12:47 AM
Po' baby...........(Elijah Craig 18, neat, rocks.)
One really doesn't get wiser with age do they?. Just weirder and then dead it seems. :alchi:

Submariner409
03-19-09, 08:48 AM
Nah....! Learned a lot through life, get wiser every day, and still have quite a few good years left. You just make sure to keep working to help pay my Social Security. :D

Destroyer
03-21-09, 12:04 AM
You just make sure to keep working to help pay my Social Security. :DSure thing.:cookoo:

chubbyranger
03-21-09, 11:13 AM
You just make sure to keep working to help pay my Social Security. :D

Isn't that why Ford drivers were put on the earth in the first place?

Submariner409
03-21-09, 11:40 AM
I can honestly say that I've had more Ford than GM products. Destroyer's Lincoln is one stunning vehicle that I lust for. My F-150 is quieter, easier to drive, more comfortable, less expensive to maintain, and more "bulletproof" than the STS. Of course, not as fast, roadworthy, upscale, "luxurious", or head turner as the STS, but nevertheless, an absolutely reliable workhorse. I have put 51,000 miles on it in 4 years and the only maintenance costs have been 4 tires, oil/filters, and the 50,000 mile coolant/transmission/transfer case fluid changes. Not counting the night I missed a turn and ruined the r/f tire and rim on a curb.

Destroyer
03-22-09, 12:34 AM
Isn't that why Ford drivers were put on the earth in the first place?
You just said that to a Ford driver, lol. Lose some of the chub so maybe you can see what you are saying man. :D

Destroyer
03-22-09, 12:44 AM
II have put 51,000 miles on it in 4 years and the only maintenance costs have been 4 tires, oil/filters, and the 50,000 mile coolant/transmission/transfer case fluid changes. Not counting the night I missed a turn and ruined the r/f tire and rim on a curb.Well, experience is what we base opinions on. My experience with the wife's Lincoln is on par with the experience you have with your truck. I bought her Mark in '07 with 16k original miles and it now has 37k miles. It's been dead on reliable. For the last 2 years it has not flinched. Possibly the cheapest car I've had to maintain in years. Besides oil changes and a conventional strut replacement vs air ride, I haven't done anything to this car. I did put custom wheels/tires and brakes but that was personal taste vs stuff it needed.

I have always been a GM guy but I think it is fair to say that over the last 15 years Ford has built more reliable vehicles than GM. My '99 Cobra was a helluva car. I beat the living crap out of it and it just asked for more. I used to hate Ford products, now I praise them. Ease of maintenance and reliability mean a lot to me.

AlBundy
03-22-09, 09:59 PM
Destroyer's Lincoln is one stunning vehicle that I lust for.

:yeah:

AJxtcman
03-28-10, 02:44 PM
This is the BIG void
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/Void2.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/Void3.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/Void1.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/HPIM3959.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/HPIM3957.jpg


I mapped it out on a TimeSert and the is approximately the size of the void.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/Block%20failures/MappedArea.jpg

This was the straw that knocked me down and out of the Northstar stuff.
Well I spent all of my time working on the POS Mustang for ever also. It's been 6 months since I have touched the Turdstang and I am feeling better, but this crap in the pictures has me sticking to other GM cars and tuning.

tateos
03-29-10, 06:24 PM
Cool pictures AJ - never saw anything like it - I could imagine how installing an insert or stud in that block would be futile.

Rocket88
03-29-10, 11:58 PM
I don't see how that is repairable either. That is very disappointing that GM still couldn't get it right.

Submariner409
03-30-10, 11:58 AM
About a year, maybe a year and a half, back there was quite a discussion in this Forum concerning Northstar blocks and casting techniques, as well as alloy changes. AJ was doing a slew of work on an engine and tunes for a Fiero kit car and the head gaskets and PCM work drove him nuts.

I may be wrong, but I think the basic block manufacturing process and head bolt length changed with the advent of the 2000 roller cam follower and complete head redesign, then more changed in 2004 with another head bolt thread change.

Ranger
03-30-10, 09:25 PM
I thnink you might be right Sub and it may be mentioned up in the "Root Cause" sticky at the top of the page.

ponyboyt
03-31-10, 10:53 AM
Im wondering if Jake has seen these pictures. I think hes done more than a few of the newer blocks, might be able to tell if he has seen this before. Isolated incident? Those pictures look scary... The talks before about "pourous block" and "how the hell does coolant get to the threads if the gaskets are good"... could this be the answer? But how much inconsistancy is there block to block? Can it be narrowed down to build dates and possibly single out bad blocks to eliminate them?

jllindy
05-05-10, 01:23 AM
This was the straw that knocked me down and out of the Northstar stuff.
Well I spent all of my time working on the POS Mustang for ever also. It's been 6 months since I have touched the Turdstang and I am feeling better, but this crap in the pictures has me sticking to other GM cars and tuning.


AJ
I was noticing your experience with N*'s and i was hoping that i could get your advice on something...i have an 02 Deville DTS bought with 50,000 now has about 110,000...bought in 2005; the first winter I had it-I smelt that "bad head gasket smell" when the heater was turned on...really only notice during the cooler months when heater is used (Iím from Minnesota)...never leaked coolant still doesn't even use coolant.

Next issue is I felt a vibration that I couldn't pin point-was worse when turning right at highway speeds so I brought to dealer figuring it was going to be a ball joint, tie rod or hub or cv joint that i just could "see" the "play" in...i'm told that the tranny is bad and needs replacing. Can a bad tranny cause that kind of vibration/steering wheel shake? I know that the TCC solenoid is bad because i did get an error code for it a couple of times.



This is where i'm looking for your expertise...I'm trusting the Cadillac Dealership on that tranny so I bought a tranny and i'm planning on swapping it out but i thought that since i'm in this deep, i might as well consider Norms inserts at the same time...now i haven't seen or heard of many 02 N* with the Head insert problem so i'm wondering if i truly could just have a bad gasket...what should i look for (is there any sure-fire way to diagnose head thread failure)? other than loose head bolts during dis-assembly?

I have spent HOURS on this site researching and reading and i'm convinced that Norm's inserts are the way to go if needed but almost ALL posts (until this post from you) refers to the 99 and earlier Caddy's...I tried to send you a PM but the site wouldn't let me.

Thank you in advance for ANY help or advise you could give me.

Ranger
05-05-10, 02:23 AM
If you are not using coolant and are not overheating, your head gaskets are fine. Not sure what you mean by "bad head gasket smell" when the heater was turned on", but if you mean you smell coolant, then you have a heater core leaking.

Submariner409
05-05-10, 09:43 AM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Look at wheel bearing units for vibrations and noise before you get into transmission work which will cause you to regret ever buying a FWD Cadillac.

Is the transmission the same year and final drive ratio as your existing unit ?? Your VIN 9 engine uses a 3.71:1 final drive while the DHS/Deville use a 3.11. Different engines and management systems.

Have you done the highway test for the TCC lockup problem??

tateos
05-05-10, 02:34 PM
110K miles on a '96 -'99? Yes, I would say insert or stud it if it is out of the car and you're going to keep it for awhile. But a 2002? Tough call.

I have done it before, so personally, I think I would do it; that would give me a chance to change the intake plenum, rear main seal, oil pan gasket, clean up the combustion chamber and piston crown deposits, and replace the coolant crossover gaskets. I understand the "don't fix it if it ain't broke" philosophy, too...it really depends on how long you plan to keep the car.

jllindy
05-06-10, 10:34 PM
if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Look at wheel bearing units for vibrations and noise before you get into transmission work which will cause you to regret ever buying a fwd cadillac.

Is the transmission the same year and final drive ratio as your existing unit ?? Your vin 9 engine uses a 3.71:1 final drive while the dhs/deville use a 3.11. Different engines and management systems.

Have you done the highway test for the tcc lockup problem??

i'm not familiar with the "highway test" can you enlighten me? I have replaced both wheel bearing units AND ONE LOWER BALL UNIT (VIA A LOWER CONTROL ARM), no noises...i will double check the year on the tranny...i believe that THE TRANNY is from a 2001 but if i remember correctly when i picked it up, i did verify the "vin 9". The transmission is at my shop so i will have to check it tomorrow.

as usual thank you ALL for your help and input.

on a side note, am i the only one has window regulator problems? i've replaced one and within two months the other three have gone bad?

jllindy
05-06-10, 10:49 PM
If you are not using coolant and are not overheating, your head gaskets are fine. Not sure what you mean by "bad head gasket smell" when the heater was turned on", but if you mean you smell coolant, then you have a heater core leaking.

i don't smell coolant, but i guess I'm retarded and didn't think of the heater core i should have used the KISS method. i will definitely look into that...hopefully the tear down and inspection will tell a more informed story...i just wanted to order everything that i "might" need right away to minimize the time the car would be down. Norm's stud kit is the only thing that might take awhile to ship...everything else should be in stock or readily available

Ranger
05-06-10, 10:57 PM
i'm not familiar with the "highway test" can you enlighten me?
Hold your speed steady at any speed above 41 mph (no cruise control) and very gently touch the brake pedal with your left foot. You should see a 200 -300 RPM rise when and if the TCC disengages.

Norm's stud kit is the only thing that might take awhile to ship
Norm sells inserts, not studs, unless he has branched out.

on a side note, am i the only one has window regulator problems? i've replaced one and within two months the other three have gone bad?
Nope, common problem on the 2000+ Devilles. Check the Tech Tips section. I think there is a permanent fix somewhere in there.

jllindy
05-06-10, 11:13 PM
Nope norm doesn't sell the studs but when i called ARP they said that they didn't have a specific one for this motor....anyone have part numbers or recommendations for studs...I LOVE THIS car and would like to keep it as long as possible...my wife can keep her new fancy BMW i will take my old 02 DTS any day over that thing...the all wheel drive in the BMW is great and gives a peace of mind but my Deville is so solid even driving through 4"-6" of snow.

Submariner409
05-07-10, 09:25 AM
Jake (www.northstarperformance.com) has the studs machined and threads rolled (patent pending), then assembles a complete kit with the studs, nuts, drill jigs, tap, and instructions. He's in Canada, just up from Detroit, and ships product all over the U.S. and overseas. He's a vendor in CF - see his link up in the vendor threads ^^^.

Jake's studs have a large, coarse lower thread, so you drill and tap the block and the studs thread in - no inserts - so it's a one-piece job.

Seal everything with duct tape and plastic sheet to keep the copious amounts of drill chips out of the engine and water passages. You do NOT get into the engine lower end or pistons - that's all bulletproof and will last forever.

The DOHC and chain drive is what makes a simple gasket replacement into a long, tedious job.