I've seen all sorts of threads about how American car companies don't deserve loans, since all their hardships are (supposedly) of their own making. If Congress and the media are right, and GM and Ford did this to themselves by building "dinosaurs" that no one wanted, then the Japanese car companies should be totally cool, right.

Wrong.


Toyota warns of $5 billion fiscal year operating loss

World's largest automaker hit by weakening sales, stronger yen


Toyota said its operating loss will likely widen to 450 billion yen ($4.95 billion) for the fiscal year ending March 31. In December, the Nagoya-based automaker originally forecast a 150 billion yen operating loss.

Looks like their net operating losses are going to be approximately 3 times worse than they thought. But how can this be? This is the company of Hybrids, of supposedly wonderful reliability and quality- all the things that people claim the Domestics are not. Since they're so much better than Detroit, how can they be losing money?

It's even more staggering when you compare the losses this year to the profits last year:

Net losses in the fiscal third-quarter totaled 164.7 billion yen ($1.81 billion), compared to a 458.6 billion yen net profit a year earlier. Net revenues decreased 28.4% to 4.8 trillion yen during the quarter.

$1.81 billion in losses compared to $5.04 billion profit is a $6.85 billion dollar swing in one year- less than the initial bridge loan that GM got.

"We are in a difficult economic climate facing uncertainties, including fluctuations in energy and raw material prices and foreign exchange rates," Toyota said in a statement.
On a regional basis, quarterly net revenues fell the most in North America, declining 27.3% to 5.292 trillion yen, followed by an 18.6% decline in Europe and a 9.6% fall in Japan. In the rest of Asia net revenues were down 0.3% to 2.31 trillion yen.

"The automotive industry . . . is experiencing a rapid contraction of markets in developed countries and a slowdown of market growth in resource-rich counties and emerging markets once expected to grow," Toyota said in the statement.

Ahead of the earnings announcement, Moody's downgraded Toyota's credit rating, saying the length and severity of the global downturn will mean a slow road to profit recovery for the Japanese automaker.
Moody's cut the rating to Aa1 from Aaa and said it had a negative outlook on the car and truck maker.
Attention Congress and Domestic Auto naysayers:

Read some news and look around at what's happening to even the most admired car companies before you accuse Detroit of bringing this on themselves.


Do the Union contracts need renegotiating? Sure.
Is the jobs bank stupid? Yes.
Have GM and Ford been inefficient in their operations? Yes.
Is their current sales debacle entirely of their own making? NO.

This is not intended to say that GM and Ford don't need to be revamped, but rather to remind people that simple solutions and accusations such as "GM's quality isn't as good" or "They waited too long to build Hybrids" or any other simplistic explanations are foolish. The auto industry problems are a result of a global financial downturn caused by factors outside the auto industry.

Everyone's hurting (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/toyota-warns-5-billion-fiscal/story.aspx?guid=%7B53DF3673-D299-4EA3-829F-C9E8827A2819%7D&dist=msr_12)- some of the Foreign companies were simply in a better position to weather the storm.

Yep and sadly it's going to get worse no doubt.

Yet they still outsold GM (which I never saw a post about BTW)...

Shit happens, dude.

Yet they still outsold GM (which I never saw a post about BTW)...Then you're obviously blind. That's not the point of this thread.

Yet they still outsold GM (which I never saw a post about BTW)...

You missed the point entirely.

Back when GM was lobbying for bridge loans, everyone (Congress, the media, Internet message boards, etc) was claiming that GMs financial losses in 2007 were the result of poor product design and too many SUVs, and that they wouldn't be losing money if they ran their company like Toyota. The specific example of Toyota was used over and over again. "Build more hybrids like Toyota. Build better cars like Toyota. blah blah blah Toyota".

This thread is merely pointing out that even the mighty, wonderful and "green" Toyota is bleeding money like a ruptured dam, which shows there was little to nothing GM could have done on the product side to avoid their current situation. They wouldn't be AS BAD if they had stood up to the Unions over the years, but their sales would still be plummeting- just like Toyota's are.

You missed the point entirely.

Back when GM was lobbying for bridge loans, everyone (Congress, the media, Internet message boards, etc) was claiming that GMs financial losses in 2007 were the result of poor product design and too many SUVs, and that they wouldn't be losing money if they ran their company like Toyota. The specific example of Toyota was used over and over again. "Build more hybrids like Toyota. Build better cars like Toyota. blah blah blah Toyota".

This thread is merely pointing out that even the mighty, wonderful and "green" Toyota is bleeding money like a ruptured dam, which shows there was little to nothing GM could have done on the product side to avoid their current situation. They wouldn't be AS BAD if they had stood up to the Unions over the years, but their sales would still be plummeting- just like Toyota's are.
Congress is fulla dumbasses. GM has more hybrids than anyone else. GM has affordable hybrids. (I'm practicing... Those are 2 of the answers to "Why should I buy GM?" that I have to know for auto show. LOL)

Jon be representin'. :D

Congress is fulla dumbasses. GM has more hybrids than anyone else. GM has affordable hybrids.

Exactly. Not to mention that in pure Gasoline engines, GM has more vehicles that get 30mpg than Toyota, Honda and Nissan combined.

People who think their job at McDonald's qualifies them to run a car company better than Rick Wagoner are idiots, especially when they toss all these accusations about hybrids and MPG without knowing the facts.

Then you're obviously blind. That's not the point of this thread.

Link me...

1. MINI -- 27.66 average mpg
2. Honda -- 23.81 average mpg
3. Chevrolet -- 23.36 average mpg
4. Lotus -- 22.33 average mpg
5. VW -- 22.21 average mpg
6. Pontiac -- 22.20 average mpg
7. Saturn -- 22.14 average mpg
8. Kia -- 21.80 average mpg
9. Suzuki -- 21.77 average mpg
10. Toyota -- 21.60 average mpg

Average fuel economy of brands based on number of cars sold in 08
as reported by CNN, JD powers and Consumer reports.
Just because you sell oh say a Prius, dosen't mean you sell enough to over come the other cars you sell that have poor MPG,
say oh for example the Tacoma, Tundra, Sienna, Sequioa, Land Cruiser, FJ Cruiser and 4Runner.
An Extra Cab 5.3 4x4 Silverado/Sierra Half ton gets better gas mileage then all those but the Sienna.
Perception is everything. Yep you can buy a Hybrid Camary or Prius, but I guess Toyota has figured out the other stuff makes
them money too, because they sell enough to bring their average MPG down.

Ah Ha! Shit might happen folks, but when it happens to the Big Three it is all their fault.
When it happens to the Night in Shining Armor Toyota, it is everything/everyone else's fault.
Just my own observation, which is not popular here, but I thought I would throw it out
there anyway.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend folks.

Link me...
Don't be lazy. Do a search for the many posts on this forum...

Don't be lazy. Do a search for the many posts on this forum...

Why would I search for whats not there Jimmy?

Come on and prove me wrong and post the link.

The whole world automarket went into the shitter last year. I don't know if GM and Chrysler would've been okay if that didn't happen, they had already lost a ton of $$$ before the sales really slid in the 3rd and 4th quarter.

Part of running a business is to have a contingecy plan for when things do go in the shitter. Toyota might lose a ton of money like everybody else, but they have enough money stored away to weather the storm, unlike GM or Chrysler, who couldn't make money when the market was pretty good.

Why would I search for whats not there Jimmy?

Come on and prove me wrong and post the link.

Still waiting on that link Jim.

I cry not for Toyopet. I just wish they'd go back to where they came from, and take honDUH and Pisson and KIA kick it again, with them off to infiniti until DISlexus forgets. I cry for GM Ford & Chrysler, and the salesmen selling them and for the fact that if they go under America will cease being a manufacturing giant, and WE ALL will sink lower and closer to a depression-era existence !

I cry not for Toyopet. I just wish they'd go back to where they came from, and take honDUH and Pisson and KIA kick it again, with them off to infiniti until DISlexus forgets. I cry for GM Ford & Chrysler, and the salesmen selling them and for the fact that if they go under America will cease being a manufacturing giant, and WE ALL will sink lower and closer to a depression-era existence !

:gg:

I cry not for Toyopet. I just wish they'd go back to where they came from, and take honDUH and Pisson and KIA kick it again, with them off to infiniti until DISlexus forgets. I cry for GM Ford & Chrysler, and the salesmen selling them and for the fact that if they go under America will cease being a manufacturing giant, and WE ALL will sink lower and closer to a depression-era existence !

America has ceased being a manufacturing giant for a while now. The proof at the bottom of lake Michigan, which is covered in steel mills as far as the eye can see, all of which are no longer functioning.

:gg:

HAHAHAH! Love this emoticon!

Nissan announced today they are cutting 20k jobs world wide. I blame the Launch Control Button. I thought it could save the world, apparently not.

Still waiting on that link Jim.

Still waiting Jimbo...:yawn:

Still waiting Jimbo...:yawn:
nope, not helping lazy people...or douchey ones...

nope, not helping lazy people...or douchey ones...

Whats the matter Jimmy? You know you were wrong and I was right?

:yawn:

Whats the matter Jimmy? You know you were wrong and I was right?
oh, wait. you actually wanted that point to be brought out in this thread? everytime a counterpoint thread is made, it has to point out a previously stated point? are you a democrat? very funny. :bigroll:

oh, wait. you actually wanted that point to be brought out in this thread? everytime a counterpoint thread is made, it has to point out a previously stated point? are you a democrat? very funny. :bigroll:

Umm...that was a stupid response.

BTW, Im still waiting for that link that doesnt exist Jimmy.

Umm...that was a stupid response.

BTW, Im still waiting for that link that doesnt exist Jimmy.
just trying to dumb it down to your level...

just trying to dumb it down to your level...

Thanks for trying.

Now, go get that link that doesnt really exist for me, Ive been waiting quite a while...

Thanks for trying.

Now, go get that link that doesnt really exist for me, Ive been waiting quite a while...
plenty of links. just don't feel like posting them right now...

plenty of links. just don't feel like posting them right now...

Oh please do post them, Im still waiting to be proved wrong...

Oh please do post them, Im still waiting to be proved wrong...
enjoy your wait, biatch...

Here you go Crying Game...



http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forums-lounge-member-introductions/144586-gm-vs-toyota.html

But wait, there's more...


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-non-model-specific-discussion/105377-toyota-now-1-a.html

And 1 more for the douches...


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forums-lounge-member-introductions/105391-toyota-overtakes-gm-worlds-largest-auto.html

How is this thread not in the locked bin yet?

Oh Jimmy, where to start...


Here you go Crying Game...



http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forums-lounge-member-introductions/144586-gm-vs-toyota.html

This one was from back in 2007, nice try...

But wait, there's more...


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-non-model-specific-discussion/105377-toyota-now-1-a.html

Once again back in 2007...

And 1 more for the douches...


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forums-lounge-member-introductions/105391-toyota-overtakes-gm-worlds-largest-auto.html

Once again, that one was summer of last year, and speculation...







Come on Jim, you know I was talking about seeing a post made this year about Toyota outselling GM, when this post was made just to knock Toyota's profit loss. Just admit you were wrong.

And you keep calling me a douche, is that what you do when you go into defensive mode when your wrong?

http://palmaddict.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/text_bully_1.jpg

How is this thread not in the locked bin yet?
:hmm:

1 warning

1 ban