: 2009 CTS-V vs 2009 M3 please help????



S420merc
01-30-09, 09:43 AM
I am on the fence regarding my next car purchase if anyone owns both cars looking for some input. I am between a CTS-V and a M3 i would order both cars. My main issues with owning a CTS-V are the dealer service. I live in the NYC area and american dealers are known for their crappy service. I currently own a 300c SRT8 dealer service sucks, i have owned several bmw and MB cars and my dealer pampers me. Depreciation how will Caddy hold up vs BMW. i know my SRT8 went from 47,000 to 33k the second u drove it out the door. the M3 and CTSV are simular in price i can get a big discount on the M3 about $300 above invoice on an ordered car, can i come close to that on a V. my local dealer wont let me test drive the V so i cant compare to a BMW in ride and road feel. I have owned a ton of different cars but for road feel and comfort balance nothing handles like a bmw. My SRT8 is fast in a straight line but i dont feel what the car is doing a bit of a boat how does the V compare. Any dealer and purchase experience input welcome if in NY area.

CIWS
01-30-09, 10:00 AM
If you're asking the question, get the M3.

james4513
01-30-09, 10:04 AM
You have to drive the V if you really want to decide between them. If so, worth a trip somewhere to find one. Then buy from Scott at Superior to get the price you need if you like the V.

wait4me
01-30-09, 10:23 AM
If you REALLY dont know, just dont get any of them and get a pinto or somethin.. This question should honestly NEVER come up... :D

haterinc
01-30-09, 10:24 AM
I can understand why you're worried about dealer service with an M3. The one I had always had problems. Sure they'll kiss your @$$ while you're there because they'll usually know you on a first name basis with the repetitive problems. Benz isn't much better with the CLS I loved so much. I loved the cars and the performance, but the maintenance was crap on them. I would never considering keeping out past the warranty either.

I'm also kind of surprised a dealer won't let you drive the V2. Is your age or weather the problem? I'm 32 now and about 10 years ago when I looked at buying a C5 when they first came out, I had that problem due to my age. When I picked one up from a competitor I displayed my 30 day tags along with a nice doughnut in their parking lot to let them know they missed out on a sale... (also probably validating their reason for not letting me in one LOL).

Only time will tell on the V2 as far as upcoming issues but my first suggestion is find a dealer that will take you seriously and get one out on the road. My Cadillac now will come pick my car up and leave a loaner anytime I need any service done. The first time you feel the V2 engine start, you'll realize it isn't like anything Cadillac has ever put on the road...

Short-Throw
01-30-09, 11:23 AM
I have owned a ton of different cars but for road feel and comfort balance nothing handles like a bmw.


With all due respect, this biased comment (understandably based on your personal experience) will not allow you to look at the CTS-V, or other cars equally. It seems you have already made your decision.

Have you asked yourself how the CTS-V ran a sub 8 minute lap at N-Ring?


As far as the CTS-V handling like a BMW, you are correct, it doesn't....it's more comfortable and just as agile. Yes, I've driven both quite a bit.

There is no doubt that overall the luxury foreign car dealerships do a better job catering to the car owner (Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, etc...). I will tell you I have been fortunate to have had nothing but great experiences with GM dealerships, so there are decent ones out there. People in general do not write about great experiences, just crappy ones. The M3 had some serious engine issues years ago, did that make all the M3s unworthy?

As far as your depreciation question, it mattered more when leases were attractive and the residuals on the foreign cars were higher. Not the case any more. Are you really buying a car with the thought of future value?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3238356211_8f21aa2c9c_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3474/3239194360_ef2a7b8f60_o.jpg

As far as your SRT8 vs CTS-V handling question. That's really no different than asking how the SRT8 compares to the M3. The CTS-Vs suspension will have you reconsidering your BMW handling uniqueness.

To no fault of your own, you tried to test drive one but were refused. You need to keep looking elsewhere or perhaps soon enough there will be a NYC owner here who can chime in and hook up with you.


Mike

LUVMY04V
01-30-09, 11:42 AM
551 @3800 TQ >291@ 3900 tq ;)

JEM
01-30-09, 01:05 PM
The V is a bigger car, halfway between the M3 and the SRT8 in both size and interior room. The SRT8 is a huge boat and the high beltline makes it feel even bigger than it is. The V also has a bit of a high beltline but at least you can see down a bit over the nose; rearward visibility is still less than ideal.

The M3 follows the course of recent BMW M-cars with engines that need to be flogged to make the car go fast, though the V8 in the M3 is better than the E46 in flexibility. The V, of course, probably makes more torque off idle than the M3 does at 3500RPM.

The M3 is prettier, no question.

Our local Bimmer store is good and competent at service but they don't wipe your backside for you when you visit the head; for that I suppose you could pick up a Lexus IS-F.

V-Love
01-30-09, 04:10 PM
2009 CTS-V hands down. Don't worry about service. Just become a supporting member. Everything you need to know will be found right here on this forum. Then, you bring it in and tell the service writer what to do. When I first got my 04, they didn't even know what it was. I would bring them the TSB's and educate them on what was wrong with the car. Now, my service guy knows whats up and takes care of me.
Those BMW's are nice but not as nice(imo). Plus, you help the economy a little by purchasing a V.
BUT if you want that "pretty car"....... well, you go boy. :Danielle:

S420merc
01-30-09, 04:15 PM
Wow talk about getting flamed my local dealer has a V at 5k mark up and wont give test drives. I went to the dealer and was in a suit and pulled up in my ML350 and i am 38 years old. I had 3 BMW's before my SRT8 and went american with the SRT8 but was very disapointed in the ride vs a BMW the SRT is very floaty and feels disconected from the road , I am hoping this is not the case with the Cadillac. Also my SRT8 service sucks one time they put in the wrong oil and if i bring it in for a problem all i hear this is normal or we cant replicate the problem. At least at my MB and BMW dealer they try to address my concerns. I feel that if i pay 70k for a car i should not be treated that way. Hell i get better service at Honda which services my comutter car which is a FIT. So i am just looking for opinions from people who have driven the M3 and the V.

wait4me
01-30-09, 04:31 PM
5K OVER SCREW THEM. Just go to another dealer. Or off of ebay. There never should be a mark up on any car.... That just makes me feel ripped off.

thebigjimsho
01-30-09, 05:04 PM
Wow talk about getting flamed my local dealer has a V at 5k mark up and wont give test drives. I went to the dealer and was in a suit and pulled up in my ML350 and i am 38 years old. I had 3 BMW's before my SRT8 and went american with the SRT8 but was very disapointed in the ride vs a BMW the SRT is very floaty and feels disconected from the road , I am hoping this is not the case with the Cadillac. Also my SRT8 service sucks one time they put in the wrong oil and if i bring it in for a problem all i hear this is normal or we cant replicate the problem. At least at my MB and BMW dealer they try to address my concerns. I feel that if i pay 70k for a car i should not be treated that way. Hell i get better service at Honda which services my comutter car which is a FIT. So i am just looking for opinions from people who have driven the M3 and the V.
I would buy from Cadillac Tony and drive to Lindsay to get it serviced. Less than 4 hours away. Although i don't want to tick off Lindsay, so consider buying from them too. But Cadillac Tony is da man!

thebigjimsho
01-30-09, 05:05 PM
551 @3800 TQ >291@ 3900 tq ;)


I'd pick the V. Although the M3 wouldn't be far behind. As for torque numbers, that doesn't tell the whole story and high revving motors can be the most fun on the planet when done right...like the SHO...

jianco
01-30-09, 06:49 PM
Apples and oranges. The M3 has next to no back seat. The V has room for 4 in true luxury. 5 is decent for a short drive. THe V is better looking and better made.... and will cost 50% or less to maintain. Will the M3 do a drive through some cones faster than the V? Sure. Who cares? When is the last time you drove through a bunch of cones? On a track, the V will kill it. The V is the premiere sports sedan in the world at any price. Do NOT buy anything else until you drive one. Come to Raleigh, NC and you can drive mine. I have the first and fastest one here.

Short-Throw
01-30-09, 06:57 PM
The M3 is prettier, no question.



No question huh?


THe V is better looking and better made.... and will cost 50% or less to maintain.

caddiedrummer
01-30-09, 07:05 PM
M3 vs CTS-V--huh? I have driven the new M3 and traded an M5 (much better comparison to V) on my V.

I would not go back to my 5 much less a 3 after putting 3k miles on this V.

Service is a matter of which dealership. I have seen lousy BMW and Caddy dealerships. The BMW free oil changes are great if you don't mind waiting forever to change your oil.

Depreciation? My M5 with a sticker of $98K dropped like a rock.

Ms better looking? In the eye of the beholder but IMO opinion don't agree.

Short-Throw
01-30-09, 08:16 PM
M3 vs CTS-V--huh? I have driven the new M3 and traded an M5 (much better comparison to V) on my V.

I would not go back to my 5 much less a 3 after putting 3k miles on this V.

Service is a matter of which dealership. I have seen lousy BMW and Caddy dealerships. The BMW free oil changes are great if you don't mind waiting forever to change your oil.

Depreciation? My M5 with a sticker of $98K dropped like a rock.

Ms better looking? In the eye of the beholder but IMO opinion don't agree.

Terse, factual and simply worth quoting again!

thebigjimsho
01-30-09, 10:24 PM
Apples and oranges. The M3 has next to no back seat. The V has room for 4 in true luxury. 5 is decent for a short drive. THe V is better looking and better made.... and will cost 50% or less to maintain. Will the M3 do a drive through some cones faster than the V? Sure. Who cares? When is the last time you drove through a bunch of cones? On a track, the V will kill it. The V is the premiere sports sedan in the world at any price. Do NOT buy anything else until you drive one. Come to Raleigh, NC and you can drive mine. I have the first and fastest one here.
For the size sedan it is, I thought the M3 had decent back seat room. Not limo-like, but decent...

thebigjimsho
01-30-09, 10:25 PM
Terse, factual and simply worth quoting again!Ummm, it's fact that it's someone's opinion...

Short-Throw
01-30-09, 11:00 PM
Ummm, it's fact that it's someone's opinion...

Fact:

His BMW's resale value dropping like a rock has nothing to do with opinion. This is one of the OP's main concerns along with poor dealership care, which caddiedrummer has also seen poor on both sides of the fence.

Opinion:

Which one is better looking, yes, some liked Ginger, some liked MaryAnn.

thebigjimsho
01-31-09, 12:22 AM
Mary F'N ANN!!!

Razorecko
01-31-09, 12:59 AM
idunno i'd say some days ginger and other days marayann....ahhh variety- the spice of life.

darjae
01-31-09, 01:02 AM
idunno i'd say some days ginger and other days marayann....ahhh variety- the spice of life.

There really is no reason in this fantasy world that we can't have Ginger and Maryann. I've seen them eye each other more than once. ;)

JEM
01-31-09, 02:53 AM
Apples and oranges. The M3 has next to no back seat. The V has room for 4 in true luxury. 5 is decent for a short drive.

The M3 back seat is smaller than the V, borderline adult-size. The M5's back seat is bigger and more comfortable than the V. None of them have room for 4 in "true luxury" (the Pontiac G8 has quite a bit more room than any of them, similar to a short-wheelbase E65 7-series.)


The V is better looking and better made.... and will cost 50% or less to maintain.

Huh?

Better looking? Not to my eye. None of them are bad-looking, the M3 sedan the best of the bunch, the M3 coupe the worst, both the M5 and the V are good basic shapes with some awkward detailing. The V's interior is probably the best design of the bunch, and the M5's interior easily the worst. Outward visibility is a bit better in the BMWs.

Better made? It's far, far too early to make that judgment.

Cost 50% or less to maintain? While under warranty that's certainly not true, and long-term all these cars are quite complex and may have Achilles' heels we don't know about yet. The E60 M5's the only one that's been out there long enough to have a track record and it's not bad.


Will the M3 do a drive through some cones faster than the V? Sure. Who cares?

There are people who will find the V to be too big, too heavy, too heavy-feeling for their tastes. But a lot of those people won't find the current M3 enough smaller, or at least enough smaller-feeling to suit them either, it's a big heavy car these days too.

JEM
01-31-09, 02:56 AM
There really is no reason in this fantasy world that we can't have Ginger and Maryann. I've seen them eye each other more than once. ;)

Yeah, but then you need about six hundred gallons of coconut milk...

the cadillac kid
01-31-09, 03:38 AM
I am on the fence regarding my next car purchase if anyone owns both cars looking for some input. I am between a CTS-V and a M3 i would order both cars. My main issues with owning a CTS-V are the dealer service. I live in the NYC area and american dealers are known for their crappy service. I currently own a 300c SRT8 dealer service sucks, i have owned several bmw and MB cars and my dealer pampers me. Depreciation how will Caddy hold up vs BMW. i know my SRT8 went from 47,000 to 33k the second u drove it out the door. the M3 and CTSV are simular in price i can get a big discount on the M3 about $300 above invoice on an ordered car, can i come close to that on a V. my local dealer wont let me test drive the V so i cant compare to a BMW in ride and road feel. I have owned a ton of different cars but for road feel and comfort balance nothing handles like a bmw. My SRT8 is fast in a straight line but i dont feel what the car is doing a bit of a boat how does the V compare. Any dealer and purchase experience input welcome if in NY area.

Learn your lesson already, will ya? shit.
Your dealer sucks, go elsewhere.


depending on where you are in NYC (or the "NYC area" as you stated), check out the cadillac dealerships in NNJ. One on 17 and one on 46; preferably Brogan on Rt. 46, but call before you visit & tell them your situation first.


As far as making a deal on the V, call this number: (352) 408-0391. Ask for "Tony Pagano."

urbanski
01-31-09, 07:29 AM
ginger

Heavychevy1
01-31-09, 07:50 AM
S240 - The E36 and E46 were true icons and I know where you are coming from in terms of their handling, they were very tossable and great track cars. The E46 also won several car of the year and engine of the year (once they fixed it) awards and deserved all of them. However that was then and now there are plenty more options to get that handling you desire. If you are looking for the tossability of an E46, the E90 (new M3) will give you something closer to that as it's lighter and in the same mold. It also revs to 8400 rpms NA which is an experience that cant be replaced with forced induction. Also the M3's hold value better than the M5's historically and I think it will hold value better than the V, especially if GM continues to have more problems. Either car will spin tires easily, the V because of huge torque, the M3 because of skimpy tires and power oversteer that is characteristic of M's

That's about it for the M3, the V offers better performance with more space, a better (albeit more plasticky) looking interior. The M3 is just too small to really consider the sedan unless your a teenager. You may as well get the coupe. The two are definitely comparable in performance with the V having the edge in potential. The M3's brakes are pretty lame too.

The SMG II in the M3 will be a better, quicker shifting, more efficient tranny than any automatic, but it's going to have more problems too.

Overall personal preference should fuel your decision more than anything else as it's a win win situation IMO.

M5eatr
01-31-09, 10:02 AM
MaryAnn in my face and Ginger cowgirl......same time of course......

cjoe
01-31-09, 03:59 PM
If you're looking for "entertainment" and don't need a big back seat I'd get a 135i. Even without a $2000 dinan software mod it's more entertaining than the M3 and you don't have to rev the crap out of it to have fun. All this and you get about 19mpg in the city. One of the best engines I've ever driven with great low end torque, which is a rare commodity these days. With the dinan mod it will easily post better #'s than the M3. Jeremy Clarkson (top gear) gave it a "rare" five out of five stars. With that said, I chose the v2 over the m3 for the wife. Of course you know who's driving it. I love the interior of the v2 with the recaros. I like the sound of the engine at any speed and when you step down on that throttle it's contest over! My only gripe with the v2 is that it doesn't retain the audio settings for each individual key like the bmw does. Oh yah, if you buy a loaded bmw make sure you buy a battery charger and trickle charger because you're going to need them in 8 months to a year if you don't take daily trips of at least 15 miles in distance. That same Jeremy Clarkson gave the v2 four out of five stars which is still a very high rating. He claimed his test driver "the stig" was getting a v2.