: D3 CTS-V Baseline and First Tune



Fire and Ice
01-29-09, 07:32 PM
In an on going effort to make more power, we would like to share the results of our baseline dyno run and prototype ECU box. Baseline run for the new 2009 CTS-V produced 493.0 rwhp. A little bit of tweaking and our prototype ECU box added another 36.8 rwhp making a peak of 529.8 rwhp while still maintaining a safe air fuel ratio of 11.8:1. Only the air fuel mixture was adjusted and NO other modifications were made for this test. Thank you.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa72/mistuman/ctsvdyno-1.jpg

NormV
01-29-09, 07:42 PM
19 wheels with tires to match must release allot of power when removed. Nice gain! :)

Norm

james4513
01-29-09, 09:14 PM
Cost, availability, installation, ...?

jianco
01-29-09, 11:17 PM
Your dyno is WAY more generous than others on the web. Most conservative stock numbers are 443 to 450 RWHP, and Henessey is highest at 470 rwhp. Your number is way high.

darjae
01-29-09, 11:31 PM
Your dyno is WAY more generous than others on the web. Most conservative stock numbers are 443 to 450 RWHP, and Henessey is highest at 470 rwhp. Your number is way high.

That dyno is one that attaches directly to the axle (no wheel, tire loss). In addition, as stated many times in the forum, the baseline HP numbers are meaningless compared from dyno to dyno (even the same type). The important number is the difference between the baseline and the altered (before and after) numbers. The % increase should give a good indication as to the increase in power.

rw99
01-29-09, 11:38 PM
If Mustang (Eddy Current) dynos load the car more (resulting in lower rwhp/rwtq numbers), and Dynojets don't load as much, where do DynaPacks fit in? It makes sense to me to tune the car on the chassis dyno that most closely mimics real-world loading.

thebigjimsho
01-30-09, 03:28 AM
Must have been an auto. Nice loop...

wait4me
01-30-09, 09:31 AM
That isnt a bad gain from only changing the fuel curve and nothing more. Can you post the actual gains to the wheels instead of the flywheel motor like it shows so we can all add them to the dynograph charts for peoples websites. Not too many graphs out there so the more the better.

wait4me
01-30-09, 09:42 AM
Also Is the gear ratio set right?

Fire and Ice
01-30-09, 12:04 PM
Cost, availability, installation, ...?

It is the prototype unit and although it did very well we are still a ways from production. If I had to guess, the ECU box would price the same as the ones we have for the STS-V and XLR-V at $650.00. This box would be a plug n play unit like the others and installs in seconds. Thank you.

Fire and Ice
01-30-09, 12:05 PM
That dyno is one that attaches directly to the axle (no wheel, tire loss). In addition, as stated many times in the forum, the baseline HP numbers are meaningless compared from dyno to dyno (even the same type). The important number is the difference between the baseline and the altered (before and after) numbers. The % increase should give a good indication as to the increase in power.

Well said Darjae. Thank you for the explanation :highfive:

Fire and Ice
01-30-09, 12:10 PM
Must have been an auto. Nice loop...

It is indeed an automatic.


That isnt a bad gain from only changing the fuel curve and nothing more. Can you post the actual gains to the wheels instead of the flywheel motor like it shows so we can all add them to the dynograph charts for peoples websites. Not too many graphs out there so the more the better.

This IS rear wheel horsepower, measured by attaching the dyno directly to the axles. No wheel slip, very accurate and consistent when measuring gains or losses.


Also Is the gear ratio set right?

The dyno is set up correctly.

Razorecko
01-30-09, 02:50 PM
Very nice, you guys need to get a manual on the dyno with a tune also so we can see a good comparison in general drivetrain loss, and the curve between both.

Fire and Ice
01-30-09, 05:13 PM
Very nice, you guys need to get a manual on the dyno with a tune also so we can see a good comparison in general drivetrain loss, and the curve between both.

Not a bad idea, but to get a truly accurate idea, we'd need to dyno both an auto and stick on the same day to keep conditions as close as possible.

urbanski
01-30-09, 05:35 PM
This IS rear wheel horsepower, measured by attaching the dyno directly to the axles. No wheel slip, very accurate and consistent when measuring gains or losses.



posted chart says flywheel hp

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6020/ctsvdyno14850936ct0.th.jpg (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctsvdyno14850936ct0.jpg)

Fire and Ice
01-30-09, 05:49 PM
posted chart says flywheel hp

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6020/ctsvdyno14850936ct0.th.jpg (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ctsvdyno14850936ct0.jpg)

You're right, it sure does... The power was measured at the rear wheels though. We've never pulled a motor to dyno it from the flywheel. Thank you.

CTSV_Rob
01-30-09, 05:49 PM
I got a dyno plot when I meet D3. Anyone want to guess which mods I had at the time?

http://ctsv-rob.zoints.com/image/80317-DynoRun14Jun08

CTSV_Rob
01-30-09, 05:49 PM
Strange the way they do it, it's "calculated" Flywheel HP.

wait4me
01-30-09, 05:58 PM
Yes it is calculated flywheel hp. Not rear wheel hp. that is why the numbers are different.

Also if you look on Robs dyno, The correct rear end ratio of his car is in the box of 3.73 so his numbers are more accurate at the motor.

On the 09 dyno pull, the ratio shows at 4.90 which changes alot of calculations in the software. There is a setup you can do in the software to allow it to "find" the right gear if you dont know what it is on the setup menu. Here is a screen shot of the correct screen.
http://www.dynapackusa.com/images/gear_ratio_setup.gif

thebigjimsho
01-30-09, 07:45 PM
My brain will now esplode!

urbanski
01-31-09, 06:57 AM
I got a dyno plot when I meet D3. Anyone want to guess which mods I had at the time?

http://ctsv-rob.zoints.com/image/80317-DynoRun14Jun08

none. you had 400 flywheel hp like a V1 should

wait4me
01-31-09, 11:22 AM
I love the dynapacks, They are EXTREMELY accurate as long as all the settings are right. I even recomend that dyno or the dynodynamics to the new shops that i go to train them when they buy our software. To show REAR WHEEL horsepower all you have to do is select that in the menu. You guys can call me if you want a walk thru.
The Ratio thing is also very important in getting the correct numbers. It throws things way off. So you might have to redyno it a few times.

Just moving the fuel only to 11.8a/f gains about 10-13 hp.

That is Until you do a wide open run thru all 4 gears. Then Cat overtemp protection kicks in and dumps in alot more fuel and then your numbers drop back down to about 2hp gained...


Also, make sure you do the run in 4th gear on the auto. It is the closest to 1:1 as you can get. Even though it is 1:1.15

Seattle CTS-V
01-31-09, 01:24 PM
I think the main point of this thread is that they eeked 37rwhp out of a quick tune alone. The type of dyno is not relavent. Nice job guys!

nikon
02-01-09, 01:39 PM
for you guys wanting to see auto vs manual #'s

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-2004-2009/1045405-what-takes-hit-498-rwhp-auto-2009-cts-v.html

Razorecko
02-01-09, 06:04 PM
for you guys wanting to see auto vs manual #'s

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-2004-2009/1045405-what-takes-hit-498-rwhp-auto-2009-cts-v.html

^ now thats confusing - the auto making a genera 8hp more than the manual ??

thebigjimsho
02-01-09, 06:06 PM
Then buy a Hyundai...

Varsity
02-01-09, 06:23 PM
Q. Why aren't you changing the pulleys as well as dumping more fuel?

Q. Do you remap the gearbox to hold longer to use the power/torque?

Q. Have you added a better flowing exhaust to the map?

Last Q. Who makes the ECU unit?

Cheers

Razorecko
02-01-09, 06:37 PM
hmmm...unless the auto was already pretty broken in with mileage and the manual was still fresh with a few miles.

RapidRob
02-01-09, 06:53 PM
hmmm...unless the auto was already pretty broken in with mileage and the manual was still fresh with a few miles.

You may be right - otherwise, it shows the auto to be more efficient than the manual. This would be the first time I've ever heard of that being the case ..:hmm:

Rob

Razorecko
02-01-09, 06:55 PM
^ agreed Rob. That must be the answer because if the auto made more hp than it would mean that the manual would be causing more drivetrain loss which is theoretically impossible. The gearing might be better on the auto but the gearing has nothing to do with hp/tq numbers.

jvp
02-01-09, 07:25 PM
The gearing might be better on the auto but the gearing has nothing to do with hp/tq numbers.

The gearing will most certainly have something to do with measured rear-wheel HP numbers (more specifically: torque numbers). It's why manual transmission dyno runs are usually done in 4th gear, which is almost always a 1:1 ratio. In the case of the V's auto, it's a 1.15:1 ratio.

jas

Razorecko
02-01-09, 07:39 PM
The gearing will most certainly have something to do with measured rear-wheel HP numbers (more specifically: torque numbers). It's why manual transmission dyno runs are usually done in 4th gear, which is almost always a 1:1 ratio. In the case of the V's auto, it's a 1.15:1 ratio.

jas

^ gotcha. I'd still like to know the mileage #'s as more than one member has mentioned the car really opening up after a few hundred miles.

wait4me
02-01-09, 10:24 PM
Razorecko what state are you in?

Razorecko
02-02-09, 09:52 AM
Razorecko what state are you in?

Illinois, nw suburb of chicago - why ?

wait4me
02-02-09, 10:18 AM
I was just curious. Im only 2 hours from you. If you ever got bored, your more than welcome to come check out things here and i can show you around on the software side of this car.

Fire and Ice
02-02-09, 12:29 PM
Q. Why aren't you changing the pulleys as well as dumping more fuel?

Q. Do you remap the gearbox to hold longer to use the power/torque?

Q. Have you added a better flowing exhaust to the map?

Last Q. Who makes the ECU unit?

Cheers

A1: We will be changing more parts on the new V, including adding boost.

A2: We are currently looking into what modifications will be necessary to handle any given amount of added power. We want our parts to not only produce more power, but produce more RELIABLE power.

A3: In this current configuration we ONLY added the ECU box with revised tune. NO other modifications were made.

A4: We make the ECU box. It is a plug n play box similar to the ones we sell/produce for the STS-V and XLR-V.

Thank you.

trukk
02-02-09, 04:07 PM
ECU box = MAF translator?

-Chris

Fire and Ice
02-02-09, 04:23 PM
ECU box = MAF translator?

-Chris

I suppose that's one way to describe it. It's a plug n play box that connects in line with the MAF and loads its tune in there. It is only active when plugged in and once removed, the vehicle returns to factory settings making it a little more user friendly and dealership friendly.

nikon
02-02-09, 08:31 PM
600$ for a MAFT!!!! wow.....I thought the 150$ I spent on my camaro was alot.

Luna.
02-03-09, 03:23 AM
The gearing will most certainly have something to do with measured rear-wheel HP numbers (more specifically: torque numbers). It's why manual transmission dyno runs are usually done in 4th gear, which is almost always a 1:1 ratio. In the case of the V's auto, it's a 1.15:1 ratio.

jas

I don't think this is correct.

They can do a dyno run in first gear, as long as the dyno was adjusted for it.

This is what I was told though---I make no claims to its accuracy. :D

thebigjimsho
02-03-09, 10:03 AM
head esplode

rw99
02-05-09, 11:31 PM
If Mustang (Eddy Current) dynos load the car more (resulting in lower rwhp/rwtq numbers), and Dynojets don't load as much, where do DynaPacks fit in? It makes sense to me to tune the car on the chassis dyno that most closely mimics real-world loading.

Any info on this?

thebigjimsho
02-06-09, 02:18 AM
this p00p needs to stop. commence.

FreddyG
02-08-09, 12:14 AM
I was just curious. Im only 2 hours from you. If you ever got bored, your more than welcome to come check out things here and i can show you around on the software side of this car.

Is that invitation open to anyone?

Do you have your own dyno Jesse?

thebigjimsho
02-08-09, 12:30 AM
meddling. :shhh:

Dr. Design
02-11-09, 05:48 PM
Just FYI,
We are still conducting long term testing to ensure that this product is safe for extended use. We look to release this product in 3-4 weeks. Please let us know if there are any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

Cowan480
02-12-09, 09:36 PM
Too high..

I like to see dyno hooked to the wheels and not the axel!

Cowan

Dr. Design
02-12-09, 09:48 PM
Well it is all a matter of preference. We dyno on the dynapacks from start to finish. As along as that is done, the gains can be measured accurately. Remember you are not comparing various dyno results....

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


Too high..

I like to see dyno hooked to the wheels and not the axel!

Cowan

darjae
02-12-09, 09:55 PM
Well it is all a matter of preference. We dyno on the dynapacks from start to finish. As along as that is done, the gains can be measured accurately. Remember you are not comparing various dyno results....

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

I agree. It's said again and again (and yet again). As long as you're using the same dyno on the same day, the % gain is what's important, not the ending RWHP number.